Daddydavek Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 Interesting conversation, but perhaps we are forgetting the historical context. These men always had to hide their 'proclivities' and were very used to dealing with mixed emotions and duplicitious actions. In the context, the two men could have been merely making hay while they can. George was worried what the menage a trois would produce but took a risk. It worked out different than he thought and left him a little lonely, something he was used to despite his many 'adventures'. I do not think the story line was forced or contrived, any more than the mixed conventions of the time were.... However, it still may be a literary ploy to change the relationships among the players and if so, lets see how it plays out. Besides with Calder aboard, perhaps it was better that George was more circumspect. 1
Kookie Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 While I agree Calder was acting like an a**hole, his ties to Jervis almost requires that he build up the action and accomplishments of Jervis. What he fails to see is Nelson's deeds reflect positively on Sir John and thus need not diminished. Hopefully, Sir Gilbert as the polished diplomat he is will be able to influence the published reports to credit the entire fleet for their role. As to the Sommers, Sir Phillip and Granger triangle, there is no reason to worry at all. Sir Phillip and Sommers are just enjoying the heretowith forbidden fruit of each other. Once that novelty wears off both will return to the Granger stable (so to speak). It will be interesting what Lennox reports to the Admiralty. Since Lennox's report will surely be made before Calder's formal report reaches London, it is his report as well as Grainger's and Sir Phillips that will slant the opinion of the powers to be. 1
Mark Arbour Posted February 5, 2012 Author Posted February 5, 2012 Some great feedback from you guys! Here are my thoughts: Kerry/Somers/Granger: The forbidden fruit issue is what's at work here. If you think about it, we haven't really seen much of Kerry's personality beyond being the doting paramour. He's got a reputation as a playboy, as it were, so in this sense, I think he's just taken by the moment. He probably doesn't even get that George is irritated with him. In his mind, he's just connecting with Somers like he's been wanting to do for a very long time. Why would George have a problem with that? Isn't George being a little high-maintenance, he might think? I don't think he's evil, or mean, I think he's just oblivious, thinking with his dick. And that never happens. Calder/Lennox: Calder will land in Portsmouth and take a post chaise to London. He'll be there within a day, maybe 2 if the weather is bad. There is no way Belvidera can beat him there by sea. 1
Andrew Q Gordon Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 Some great feedback from you guys! Here are my thoughts: Kerry/Somers/Granger: The forbidden fruit issue is what's at work here. If you think about it, we haven't really seen much of Kerry's personality beyond being the doting paramour. He's got a reputation as a playboy, as it were, so in this sense, I think he's just taken by the moment. He probably doesn't even get that George is irritated with him. In his mind, he's just connecting with Somers like he's been wanting to do for a very long time. Why would George have a problem with that? Isn't George being a little high-maintenance, he might think? I don't think he's evil, or mean, I think he's just oblivious, thinking with his dick. And that never happens. Well since you put it like that. Calder/Lennox: Calder will land in Portsmouth and take a post chaise to London. He'll be there within a day, maybe 2 if the weather is bad. There is no way Belvidera can beat him there by sea. I think that was somewhat clear from the discussion George had with Jervis. He wanted Calder to get there first so George didn't steal his thunder. That said, the person of Sir Elliott Gilbert is apt to put a damper on Calder's self aggrandizement. But we all Know that Jervis was made an Earl for this action and Nelson got Knighted so, they both did okay in the end - or will do okay since it's not written yet. 1
Mark Arbour Posted February 5, 2012 Author Posted February 5, 2012 I do get what you're saying about Kerry, though. I probably could have done a better job of building up his character and quirks so that moment/change made more sense.
centexhairysub Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 I don't think that Kerry was underdeveloped at all. My reading on this was that Kerry and Somers probably had a long standing desire to be together and finally got a chance to take it beyond boyhood indiscretions and took it... I was sort of wondering if Kerry's behaviour with Granger wasn't partly his sublimation of his feeling for Somers which he didn't think he could really ever act on, being the nominal head of the family... Kerry and Somers both acted like two men that had wanted each other for a long time and finally got a chance to really get together and enjoy each other... 1
Mark Arbour Posted February 6, 2012 Author Posted February 6, 2012 I don't think that Kerry was underdeveloped at all. My reading on this was that Kerry and Somers probably had a long standing desire to be together and finally got a chance to take it beyond boyhood indiscretions and took it... I was sort of wondering if Kerry's behaviour with Granger wasn't partly his sublimation of his feeling for Somers which he didn't think he could really ever act on, being the nominal head of the family... Kerry and Somers both acted like two men that had wanted each other for a long time and finally got a chance to really get together and enjoy each other... I think that's right, but I'm not sure if the attraction to Granger was subliminal. I think it was real, and strong, but I can see where Kerry would let the emotions you describe rule him. I think I'd be tempted to do the same thing.
Daddydavek Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 A well written chapter 32 with a bit of a surprise as Belvidera took some hits. The ending of the chapter is bittersweet with a booty prize tempered by the apparent expectation of the crew break-up as the ship must undergo extensive repairs. It seems just another uncertainty as Granger gets ready to head to London after making port. 1
naaz Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 Chapter 32 is startlingly good, or so I felt. It was well written (no images:which I prefer), and really touching. It will be interesting to know what's gonna happen now, I personally am full of speculation.
Daddydavek Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 In my chapter review, I speculated that the next chapter could be the end of this part of the series. Mark replied: "You want it to end? So I should scrap chapters 34 and 35?" My response: HELL NO! I'll gladly read 3 more chapters or more before the next book in the saga starts!
Clydee Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 Great chapter, Mark!!! You can keep on writing chapters of this saga forever as far as I am concerned! I suppose they'll give Granger a seventy-four now, although I'm not sure that he would thank them for that! But he's a slick talker, maybe he'll ask for his crew to be able join him, eh? He can sweeten the deal with his prize...God knows what he'll be able to do with a bigger ship!
Mark Arbour Posted February 11, 2012 Author Posted February 11, 2012 A well written chapter 32 with a bit of a surprise as Belvidera took some hits. The ending of the chapter is bittersweet with a booty prize tempered by the apparent expectation of the crew break-up as the ship must undergo extensive repairs. It seems just another uncertainty as Granger gets ready to head to London after making port. And George hates uncertainty, so this will make things more stressful for him. And you all thought he was going to sail smoothly home to London. Chapter 32 is startlingly good, or so I felt. It was well written (no images:which I prefer), and really touching. It will be interesting to know what's gonna happen now, I personally am full of speculation. Well, some people like images, some people don't. I try to intersperse them where I think they help the story out. I thought that the Battle of Cape St. Vincent screamed for them, as well as the diagrams on the ship movements.
Mark Arbour Posted February 11, 2012 Author Posted February 11, 2012 In my chapter review, I speculated that the next chapter could be the end of this part of the series. Mark replied: "You want it to end? So I should scrap chapters 34 and 35?" My response: HELL NO! I'll gladly read 3 more chapters or more before the next book in the saga starts! LOL. I'm glad you feel that way! I have some things to close out with this story first. Great chapter, Mark!!! You can keep on writing chapters of this saga forever as far as I am concerned! I suppose they'll give Granger a seventy-four now, although I'm not sure that he would thank them for that! But he's a slick talker, maybe he'll ask for his crew to be able join him, eh? He can sweeten the deal with his prize...God knows what he'll be able to do with a bigger ship! I don't see George in a ship of the line yet. He's simply not senior enough to merit one. Spencer made quite the leap in giving him Belvidera. His first command should have been a 32 gun frigate (as Belvidera was) with a 12-pounder main armament, not 18-pounders like Belvidera had. She was also fairly new, and his first command should probably have been older. Spencer will have a dilemma now. He'll have to find a ship for Granger that rewards his efforts, but not one so large that it would arouse jealousy and resentment among other officers. He had an out with Belvidera because of her problems (the mutiny) on board. That made her not so plum an assignment.
Clydee Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 Hmmm...maybe that forty gun French frigate then that was captured a while ago. I don't recall the name of it off hand, but that would do the trick!
ricky Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 An excellent chapter as always Mark. And hey! Who says he needs a new ship for each book? Belvedere has just gotten him some shore time and that will take care of the need for shore time to finish up the family matters. And Mr llewelyn has won the race! Well, he was ahead by one knight anyways. ANd thanks for the posting Mark. 1
centexhairysub Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Well, the latest chapter was truly bittersweet. You have to wonder what is going to happen to all those men that have followed Granger from one ship to another??? Winkler will be devestated if he is seperated from Jeffers and what about Hercule and the Doctor and well all the rest. I do look forward to George getting to deal with some family issues but I will hate to have the ship "family" broken up... 2
ricky Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Perhaps they will find some incredibly fast prize that will fit both Granger and the crew. After all, he brought them with him from another ship before. Regardless, Mark has never disappointed us yet and I don't think he will this time either. As for Winkler, he has said before that he loved Jeffers more than Jeffers loved him. Perhaps he will get to keep the Welshman for his own. Who knows. Or perhaps he will get to have a new boytoy that will love him as he loves back. It would be cute to see him infatuated with someone who felt the same about him. Granger has always taken care of Winkler's needs in one way or another. And if my calculations are correct he [Winkler] is just now 15 or 16. I think he was 10 or 11 when he was robbed and Granger took him in. So he should be coming into his own here soon. I am a bit surprised that Winkler has never climbed into Grangers bed. Nor have they ever had a length private dialog. Winkler is obviously more of a true confidant than anyone Granger is connected to currently. I would like to see their relationship grow. Not as sexual partners but in their sharing of confidences. Winklers ferreting out of the plan to expose Granger was selfless and a perfect example of that relationship. I think that exchange was exceptional. I'd like to see Granger do something really nice for Winkler. Something that would raise Winklers status, if only in Winkler's eyes. Sort of a silent praise by Granger. Maybe buy him a naughty Welshman for his own. Just my thoughts. Winkler has been an integral part of this story from the get go. Well done Mark. r
Mark Arbour Posted February 12, 2012 Author Posted February 12, 2012 Perhaps they will find some incredibly fast prize that will fit both Granger and the crew. After all, he brought them with him from another ship before. Regardless, Mark has never disappointed us yet and I don't think he will this time either. As for Winkler, he has said before that he loved Jeffers more than Jeffers loved him. Perhaps he will get to keep the Welshman for his own. Who knows. Or perhaps he will get to have a new boytoy that will love him as he loves back. It would be cute to see him infatuated with someone who felt the same about him. Granger has always taken care of Winkler's needs in one way or another. And if my calculations are correct he [Winkler] is just now 15 or 16. I think he was 10 or 11 when he was robbed and Granger took him in. So he should be coming into his own here soon. I am a bit surprised that Winkler has never climbed into Grangers bed. Nor have they ever had a length private dialog. Winkler is obviously more of a true confidant than anyone Granger is connected to currently. I would like to see their relationship grow. Not as sexual partners but in their sharing of confidences. Winklers ferreting out of the plan to expose Granger was selfless and a perfect example of that relationship. I think that exchange was exceptional. I'd like to see Granger do something really nice for Winkler. Something that would raise Winklers status, if only in Winkler's eyes. Sort of a silent praise by Granger. Maybe buy him a naughty Welshman for his own. Just my thoughts. Winkler has been an integral part of this story from the get go. Well done Mark. r I don't see Winkler and Granger having a relationship that expands beyond their current situation, primarily because of social class differences. Granger may have a fling with someone who is more "common", like Jeffers and Holmquist, but it doesn't really go anywhere, because it really can't. They can't have a friendship in public. Beyond that, I think that Winkler and Granger are very happy with where their relationship is right now. They both need each other, and are really quite dependent on each other. I can't see either one of them wanting to screw that up. 1
ricky Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 I don't see Winkler and Granger having a relationship that expands beyond their current situation, primarily because of social class differences. Granger may have a fling with someone who is more "common", like Jeffers and Holmquist, but it doesn't really go anywhere, because it really can't. They can't have a friendship in public. Beyond that, I think that Winkler and Granger are very happy with where their relationship is right now. They both need each other, and are really quite dependent on each other. I can't see either one of them wanting to screw that up. Well I didn't intend that they have anything public OR that they climb into the sack. But Granger owes him large. Especially for the exposure of the plan to out him. That is why I thought that granger could do something really nice for him privately. Winkler is not a slave but a person who has chosen his loyalty. There has never really been anything said or done to thank him for that loyalty. They share brief moments with a smirk. But a melancholy moment from Granger would be cherished by Winkler. And if Granger did something like having a cute boy shadow Winkler for a task that would allow them to . . . say, chase some rats out of the chart room when he recognized that Winkler was missing Sommers and perhaps caught a glimpse of desire in his eyes towards someone else. It could be something like that. Something that Winkler would recognize as a special jesture but no one else would. It was just a side thought. Winkler has saved his bacon and stood guard over his reputation numerous times and has always protected him. It certainly isn't the paycheck that keeps him loyal. And rescuing him from the side of the road surely would have lost it's significance over 4 or 5 years. Those are just my thoughts. I was always raised to believe that you didn't judge a mans character as much by what he told you as by how he treated those who were of lower status than he was. Those that served him. That would always give you a more true evaluation of the man. It could even be something as simple as buying him a pocket watch. It's something that would help him do his job more efficiently and yet it would remind him of the appreciation of this great man every time he checked the time. 1
Daddydavek Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Chapter 33 is up and George has made it to London. His report to the Admiralty went well. Caroline dropped a bombshell and Mark left us dangling at the precipice....
Mark Arbour Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 Chapter 33 is up and George has made it to London. His report to the Admiralty went well. Caroline dropped a bombshell and Mark left us dangling at the precipice.... Yep. A massive cliffhanger. Like I said, it's my revenge for not getting nominated this year. Seriously, I am going to try and post Chapter 34 sooner than I normally would have. It's in editing now.
centexhairysub Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 OMG!!!!!!!!! I just can't imagine who the father is going to be... Well, actually I can imagine a number of interesting possibilities but just can't imagine, oh hell OMG.... I loved that Granger is going to be there one last time for the men under his command and make sure that they are treated right after serving under him with such distinction. I am going to really hate it if we lose Jeffers, Holmquist, the Doctor, and the purser. This was a great bridge chapter and the next couple are going to be just well fabulous, I just know it...
Andrew Q Gordon Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Yep. A massive cliffhanger. Like I said, it's my revenge for not getting nominated this year. Seriously, I am going to try and post Chapter 34 sooner than I normally would have. It's in editing now. Oh please, like if we nominated you, you'd be bitching how CJ really deserves it and not you. You just being you, don't pretend. Oh and in answer to your review: It's either Freddy, Kerry, or Chartley - though I could see it being either of the Princes, but my money is on Freddy. For those other than Mark, I'd not read th above unless you want to read the wrong answer
Clydee Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Interesting chapter...with a massive cliffhanger! I can only speculate, but I'm pretty sure the father ain't Arthur... There is so much to like about this series, I am sure you will all agree, and no matter whether at home or at sea Mark always manages to bring us vast entertainment with his words. This chapter is certainly no exception...and I don't know how they are going to explain this away. I don't know remember how long Granger has been away! Gawd, on top of everything else going on to come up with this...Mark you are a mean, devious...
naaz Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 to end the chapter on such a note was cruelty to animals!! I sure am gonna eat all my nails & pluck all my hairs if the next chapter isn't posted soon................so please, please hurry up.
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