Is it okay to give constructive criticism in reviews and author forums

[Sidd]

The reason I ask is because in all the feedback channels on the GA site I never come across anything negative in the way of feedback. By negative of course I mean respectful constructive criticism, not rude insults, outright disses or anything like that. But I've seen very little in the way of constructive feedback. It's almost like there's an unspoken rule of "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all."

 

Which is why I've limited commenting on stories I truly like, giving raves and encouragement the same as everyone else. The only thing is, there have been quite a few stories and authors (who will go unnamed here) usually with very high reputation points, where frankly I've been flabbergasted to see the kind of gushing that they get. It also left me dying to give feedback on ways the authors can improve their stories, but since no one else is doing it, I've felt too intimidated, fearing it might be considered bad form.

 

I realizes that the majority of what you read here is free, and people tend to be more forgiving of an author because of that. I doubt you'd ever get the kind of dissing you see in reader reviews that you'd get on Amazon.com. On the other hand, I truly feel that readers aren't doing an author (or other readers) any favors by giving nothing but raves and unconditional encouragement.

 

Of course I haven't read all the feedback on the site and I could be very mistaken about this. If anyone can give me examples of constructive feedback, mainly over works and authors that have earned the highest reputation points, I'd be more than happy to read those examples.

[Dannsar]

Is it ok? Well, too bad if it's not, I say!

 

Actually, as you sound like someone who is more thoughtful, I'd suggest you go ahead and say what you like. Disrespect will be dealt with appropriately, but it doesn't sound like you're gonna do that.

 

I'd suggest you look at the last two anthologies, and pay attention to my reviews. They are not uniformly nice, mostly because I can't be bothered with sycophancy lol. If I think something is good, I'll say so. If I think something is rubbish, I'll say so. Very rarely do I not comment. I note your comment on the freeness. In my very humble opinion, one of the best ways to pay the authors is to give them your thoughts. It's always a boost to get a review. It's nearly orgasmic if it's a good one. (i'm sure your mother warned you about giving away orgasms for free, though!)

 

There is actually a thread on editing somewhere, where I point out that writers have to be wiling to take criticism. And, I think you'll find that the better writers on here are always happy to get constructive criticism.

 

And if you want another example of a good reviewer, take a look at Cia's inputs. She is very direct, no fuss and nonsense, no buggering about with unnecessary flattery, just good old fashioned, plainly stated, honesty. Any writer who doesn't want that coming back at them should just switch the computer off.

 

5 posts? I take it you're a newbie! Welcome to GA

[Cia]

Thank you Dannsar. This topic has been raised before, a few times actually. For example, you can read one about what you should post, according to Lugh, here and another topic about giving feedback in general here. I get pm's from people asking if this or that type of commenting is okay for reviews or pm or not at all, quite often.. I have to say, it's all subjective to the skill and knowledge of the person reviewing and the person they are reviewing for. Everyone handles criticism differently and it can be hard to tell how a person will take a comment you feel is honest but they might consider an attack on their writing if you don't know them.

 

Basically it comes down to this for me. I put right on my profile, 'If you don't want an honest answer, don't ask me.' I rarely sugar coat my comments when I feel something should be said, but I try to temper it by also mentioning things I like. My writers I beta for know this. I typically use a gentler style when reviewing, since I haven't been specifically asked, per se, but I still hold to the same tenet. I feel both should be shared, what a writer does well and what they need to work on and those are things I try to point out.

 

Also, for anyone who reads this, YES, I welcome the very same courtesy returned to me and be blunt, I can take it. I cannot get better as a writer if I don't know I'm doing something wrong. Conversely, I like to know what/how I am writing that is working for readers.

[Mark92]

Maybe the answer could be to give any negative comments personally by PM first?

[Persinette]

To be honest, I've always got the vibe that GA isn't really welcoming to concrit, which is awkward as that feeling puts me off reviewing full stop - even if I enjoy something.

[Michael9344]

Okay. This is actually true. But I think the reason why most ppl don't actually give constructive criticism. I guess it has to do with the fact that most authors here are new and might not take the criticisms... Some other times I just don't feel like being the bad cop.

[Michael9344]

And of course, Dannsar is good at doing that. I think he's the only person that does that except Cia.

[K.C.]

I know there are readers who aren’t afraid to give constructive criticism. I’ve received my share since joining GA and started posting my stories, but most of them have come in the form of a private message. I think if you have something nice to say, then its okay to post if for all to see, even if it is not flattering, stating your reasoning behind a less than raving review, but if it’s something that might upset someone, I would send them a PM and always start with an explanation of why I’m sending it vs posting in open reviews.

 

When sending honest feedback in a PM, I tell them that I’m sorry if I’m too blunt or it hurts their feelings and have been lucky that every author that I’ve talked to has been appreciative of my opinion on their writing. That might be why you don’t see these conversations on the reviews since these more frank conversations are done so privately.

[Lugh]

hey

 

concrits are welcomed by quite a few people.. I give them WHEN ASKED or if I know the author is ok with them in public, else I keep them private because sometimes they can be difficult to swallow.

 

here is one exmaple of a writer who gets concrits by asking for them:

 

https://www.gayauthors.org/story/Marzipan/joyride_fantasy_sexcom/reviews

 

that is just one of her stories.

 

There are others, I'm not listing them all here. The thing is we have a lot of very new authors and some of them are too thin skinned to say too much negitive to without scaring thier fagile writer's egos. So we try not to do that.

 

Bring it on... there are some of us who can take it.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Which is why I've limited commenting on stories I truly like, giving raves and encouragement the same as everyone else. The only thing is, there have been quite a few stories and authors (who will go unnamed here) usually with very high reputation points, where frankly I've been flabbergasted to see the kind of gushing that they get. It also left me dying to give feedback on ways the authors can improve their stories, but since no one else is doing it, I've felt too intimidated, fearing it might be considered bad form.

 

 

Sidd,

 

Hmm as someone who has a rather high rep and who has gotten mostly positive reviews I have this sneaking feeling you might have been referring to me among others. I for one have thick skin so if you feel the need to be critical, go for it. You'll probably be right in most cases, and I'll end up agreeing with you.

 

Here's my thing on reviews - I don't leave negative reviews in the forum or as a review - almost never. I might leave a comment here or there about things that confused me, but if there is a real issue with something, I do it by PM. And here's why. Neither me, nor you, nor anyone else on here that I am aware of is a professional editor. Quite honestly, I've gotten comments from folks about this or that which are completely contrary to what writing professionals say - but the reviewer/commenter states their position with complete conviction. Unless you are a writing professional your opinion is just that, your opinion. You might be right, you might be wrong, but if you really want to help the author do it by PM and then you and the author can hash it out away from the public eye.

 

Dann and I disagree on this point a bit -though I understand why he does what he does and I respect that - but if you don't like something, don't read it and don't 'like' it and don't praise it. If no one is reading something, maybe the author will get a clue and ask for help. If not, well they'll be posting but no one will be reading. At the end of the day, telling them in public their stuff stinks only serves to embarrass them and likely they'll leave and never learn from the community. Doing it in private will likely be more helpful.

 

One last point and I'll shut up. Some times there are stories that 'break the rules' or are not polished or need work, but they are still entertaining to read. The plot is original, the characters have depth, despite the flaws, etc. In those cases, there will likely be a lot of positive reviews and maybe not a lot of negative ones. No one is saying this story should be published, but they are telling the author they like what they posted.

 

Andy

[TrevorTime]

I have no real issue with con-crit, as long as the reader explains exactly what didn't work for him or her. However, I think I have only done it once in a review, and it was to my favorite story!

 

(and by now everyone knows what story that is)

[Michael9344]

I have no real issue with con-crit, as long as the reader explains exactly what didn't work for him or her. However, I think I have only done it once in a review, and it was to my favorite story!

 

(and by now everyone knows what story that is)

 

Yeah. We all know...:-)

[Marzipan]

I prefer honest feedback. I want to improve as a writer and if all I get is a pet on my head I might never see the weaknesses in my stories. As Lugh so kindly pointed above, I ask for constructive crit and I welcome it. Sometimes I fear I get nice revs just because people want to be kind to me.

 

My advice is the same as many before, you can give feedback directly to the author, do it in private if you are not sure how he/she will take it.

[Sidd]

Thanks for all the responses. Actually I hadn't even considered PMing since I don't do it that much myself, but that seems to be the best solution as far as giving feedback goes. The last thing I would want to do is publicly embarrass a fledgling writer or discourage someone who doesn't have much experience in putting their work out there.

 

I did say, however, that my main interest is in giving feedback on authors with the highest reputation points. I think these authors would have enough positive validation (often rightly so) that they should be able to take constructive feedback with some aplomb, provided that it was consensual. Also, considering that many of the highly reputed writers may be on the verge of being professionally published (if they haven't been already), it is only right that they should be held to a higher standard. Certainly professional reviewers are not going to display the level of kindness and tact that GA members are apt to show.

 

As Quonus 10 has said (all of whose points are well taken and highly appreciated), most GA members are likely not professional editors. However I think that many would be well-read, some have probably studied literature, and would be highly qualified to express a responsible opinion on an author's work. I don't know if there is a section in the site to review completed works specifically of stories and novels featured on the GA site, but I think if there are authors who seeks to be held to higher scrutiny than they would normally get in the stories forum and chapter reviews, it might be something worth looking into. And of course it would be only authors who have asked to be treated without kid gloves.

[Lugh]

Hosted & promising authors have their own forums and other interested authors have threads where they solicit the kind of feedback they are looking for... if you want to give "stronger" feedback, or have a discussion with the author (and other readers) over a point in the story that might be the way to go.

[C James]

I'd say it largely depends on the author. My suggestion would be that, if it's for a newbie author, send them a PM at first. A new writer can be very easily hurt or discouraged, and saying something harsh in public tends to hurt more.

 

Personally, I think constructive criticism is a very good thing for the author. (so if you're a reader looking for an author you can critique, I'm a very viable target. Blast away. )

 

I ask for it in my story footers. Sometimes, of course, I get it, and on some of those occasions it stings, but that's the whole idea: it helps me improve. An author often sees a story differently than the reader does, so getting the different perspective is greatly helpful.

 

If a reader catches me in an error, such as a typo, or a factual error, and posts about it publicly or sends me a private note, I thank them and usually add them to the chapter credits too. (they've just helped me fix a problem, after all).

 

If a reader doesn't like the way the story is progressing, that's something I need to know as well, whether I like it or not. My prime intent is to improve, and as the old saying goes, no pain, no gain.

 

I reserve the right to disagree with a person's opinions, but I very much like to know what they are thinking.

 

I much prefer constructive criticism or feedback in my forum or via PM or e-mail, though that's for technical reasons; it's just not possible to have a conversation in the GA stories comment section. (a reader can comment an author can reply, but that's it. No third post is possible, and no one else can join in.) That's why I put links to my forum in every story and chapter, and I've taken to linking a discussion thread directly now. (and I'm always looking for advice on how I can make this smoother from a reader's perspective. It was a reader who suggested I put the links prominently right after the chapter body, which I now do)

 

Sometimes, I'll take the conversation private, due to spoiler reasons; there are cases where I know why something the way it was, that won't be known by the reader until a later chapter. As the author, there is one heck of a lot I can't say.

[Hamen Cheese]

It might be presumptuous of me to say this but I would think most people would prefer negative criticisms sent in private. After all, most writers who want to sell his book (or in this case efiction) would prefer that only the positive reviews are out there circulating.

 

Seeing too many negative reviews (constructive or otherwise) can kill potential future readers.

 

Of course this is what authors may like which may differ from what readers would like (such as being warned ahead of time if a story was any good or not).

[Dark Princess]

Its okay as long as your not purposely hurting their feelings. By that I mean be nice and honest but don't write "your an awful author" if that is what you think

[Rilbur]

I like criticism -- constructive criticism, anyway. It's hard to learn if you don't know what didn't work!

[Dee]

I don't know about the other members here, but I am definitely open to constructive criticism. I am always asking my readers to leave comments--good or not so good (in the way of any criticism; of course, in a constructive manner). It's a shame when an author wants to better themselves but will not accept any negative commenting, simply because that is a very good way to grow. I really wish more readers would be open to letting me and other authors know what they're doing right AND what they could improve on, but that's not something I can control. I will, however, continue to ask for that constructive criticism for my own benefit. If readers are willing to give me that, I am lucky to hear it.

[colinian]

I like giving (and getting) constructive criticism by PM. That lets the author and the person commenting start a conversation and I always find that a good thing. For example, if the comments are actually constructive the author may have found a great beta reader or even an editor for future chapters and stories.

 

Colin

[Adamantyne]

I written stories before, though not in here, and I like to get some constructive criticism. In fact, I find it rather annoying if people don't have anything but flatter. I mean, it's nice, but I won't make me improve.

 

I've actually thought about the whole "positivity thing" before, but I never thought about not telling the author my (almost) honest opinion - I do tend to sometimes leave out a few things, since I have experienced some author's taking my response very personal.

I think it's a good idea to PM the author if it's more than just minor flaws. Don't know why I never thought about that xD

[Yettie One]

As one of the newbies here on GA, I can honestly say that the review be it good or bad can be quite daunting.

 

I sometimes feel that I don't really have the right to criticise something as a newbie, after all what do I know right?

 

As a result I only tend to give a concrit to something that I've really enjoyed and feel bold enough to write about. When I do give a review of this nature i offer it in private and as: 1. It's only in my opinion, and not offered as some kind of professional advice. 2. My observation is only offered as an observation and not a recommendation or suggestion to change anything.

 

I think there is a right way and a wrong way to give criticism and I've seen a lot of different comments on here. Some are great and give the writer something to go away with and work with. Others open the door to discussing things in private and let the writer know that a reader is not completely happy with what they read. If the writer wants to know more then a private conversation is possible. Others are just blatantly out of line, more a personal attack than a concrit.

 

For me personally, as a reader if I'm reading and I enjoy I make a solid point of reviewing. It's only fair that the pleasure i've had in reading is shared even if it wasn't necessarily the best. If I know the writer well enough and I think that something is amiss I'll send them a message to say so. If I don't know them, I tend to leave it, as yeah I do feel a little at odds with ripping someone's work as a newbie.

 

I've also come to realise by reading a variety of stories here on GA that there is a range of different abilities. Some people are faced with language barriers and some just don't write in a style that I necessarily enjoy. That does not make their work or effort any less deserving or good? So does that mean they warrant a bad review? If I don't enjoy something but there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it, why be negative?

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that everyone's view and opinion is different. As a writer just starting out, I love to hear good and bad. What you thought is the only way I'm going to learn. I have to be honest and say that I'd prefer to hear the bad in private, as its never pleasant to feel embarrassed, but at the same time I don't mind if someone is genuinely meaning to be helpful and not personal.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Yettie One

[W_L]

I don't like to give bad reviews unless there is really a piece of the story that I find offensive or was so poorly written that you need to kill it before it eats your brain.

 

Editors are usually the best critics in my opinion, they are fun to talk to and bounce ideas off. They don't hold anything back either as they have nothing to be worried about from open criticism.

 

I know my stories are imperfect, but one thing that sets me out is that I don't like to stick to one style even if readers respond positively to a certain way of writing. I know the feeling is that if "they like it why change it" mentality probably covers a good portion of writers. We don't get many reviews to start with, so it becomes a grind to write for people, who are your fans as they demand one kind of story type with the same characters and same plots.

 

.I'd personally rather write for the story rather than for sycophantic fans to be honest, because a writer, like an artist, must be true to their work, you can write a well reviewed and well received story, then keep writing the same thing over and over again to the delight of fans without criticism due to the lack of creative impulse from the base reader. However, there's no imagination in that type of writing, no creativity, and no real dynamic. You will not get boundary breaking writers, who can incorporate a third person narrative with stream of consciousness styles into new forms and style. About half the story here deal with similar topics of coming out,, if you read as many as I have you will probably identify all the key plot points from the "confused to exploration to love" genre story or the "I hate my life due to fear of exposition" story, just to name a few.

[Bill W]

Criticism could be good and beneficial. For example, when writing the review for my Castaway Hotel story, Andy021278 made a comment about my taking the time and effort to rewrite the original and produce the Grand Reopening version. That was done so I could incorporate many of the criticims and suggestions I'd received as I posted the original series. I felt that most of the comments I received helped me to make the story even better and felt it was worth the extra work to redo it. So in this case, all of the comments I received turned out to be beneficial.

 

Where I have a problem is when the comments and criticisms become a personal attack. I will accept those as well, but feel they should be down in a private, not public, forum. I hope my imput has helped in some small way.