"Who's A Sissy?"

[TetRefine]

Oh hun, that is just the lesbians... the gay men are at Ikea.

 

What the hell is it with gay guys obsession with the place? Every time Ikea comes up, my boyfriend goes nuts with excitement.

[Pete Bruno]

Oh hun, that is just the lesbians... the gay men are at Ikea.

 

Maybe so, but those big butch straight daddies are fun to look at!

[Y_B]

omyybuttfukinnngggooooodddd Ikeaaaaa *squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel*

Edited November 7, 2011 by Yang Bang

[Rizan]

As previously stated I disagree, especially with Mr. Fierstein in one sense, if the sissy was part of a larger gay cast it would be fine, and even funny, in that it would be showing the diversity of the homosexual community. But when the only representation is the sissy, it feeds into the common misconception that all gay men are sissies and all lesbians are lumberjacks.

 

So you're only okay with a gay person being in a TV show if it's either the exact opposite of the stereotype or has both the stereotype and its exact opposite?

 

That's dumb. It's not the writer's job to portray every single type of human being that exists in the world just so you don't feel butthurt or misrepresented. It's the writer's job to entertain and make money.

 

Effeminate gays are great for comedy because they're hilarious. You know what's even funnier though? Effeminate gays who are also bulky, strong, and physically masculine.

 

[Y_B]

Effeminate gays are great for comedy because they're hilarious. You know what's even funnier though? Effeminate gays who are also bulky, strong, and physically masculine.

 

I'd have to disagree with the 2nd part. Yes effeminate gays are hilarious but only when they fit the whole package stereotype...like Jack from Will and Grace. The strong bulky homos in your picture are just....idk, there's nothing humor inducing about that....pretty much the opposite imo.

[JamesSavik]

OK- here's your badly constructed stereotypical network faggotry: the douche buckets from Modern Family

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a gay basher. These two dip shits make me want to beat the gay out of them.

 

Tell me they are not exploiting stereotypes to get a cheap laugh and reinforce peoples preexisting prejudices of gay men as fat, drunk and stupid.

 

Drinkie-winkie indeed.

 

What is your major malfunction numb-nutz!?

 

Do you turn into a blithering idiot when the camera turns on or are you just acting like a jackass!?

[Rizan]

I'd have to disagree with the 2nd part. Yes effeminate gays are hilarious but only when they fit the whole package stereotype...like Jack from Will and Grace. The strong bulky homos in your picture are just....idk, there's nothing humor inducing about that....pretty much the opposite imo.

 

It's not really the look that incites humor, it's more the look attached with attitude and speech/voice. It may be pretty cheap humor, but strong bulky guy with an effeminate voice always gets laughs.

 

 

 

Tell me they are not exploiting stereotypes to get a cheap laugh and reinforce peoples preexisting prejudices of gay men as fat, drunk and stupid.

 

I don't know if you're joking or not so I don't want to point out that fat, drunk, and stupid is the stereotype of STRAIGHT men; fit, bitch-beer drinking (wine coolers, smirnoff ice, etc.), and cultured is the stereotype for gay men.

 

I guess I pointed it out anyway.

[Pete Bruno]

So you're only okay with a gay person being in a TV show if it's either the exact opposite of the stereotype or has both the stereotype and its exact opposite?

 

That's dumb. It's not the writer's job to portray every single type of human being that exists in the world just so you don't feel butthurt or misrepresented. It's the writer's job to entertain and make money.

 

Effeminate gays are great for comedy because they're hilarious. You know what's even funnier though? Effeminate gays who are also bulky, strong, and physically masculine.

 

Firstly, I thought that this was a place for discussion, where one could share ideas in a safe forum. Calling someone's opinion "dumb" does not fit that description. Apparently, you missed the entire point of my post, it has nothing to do with my feeling being hurt; the point I was trying to make is, should gay men and women continue to except only being part of a show as comedy relief, like court jesters or freaks in a side show? Should we be happy being continually portrayed as the "hilarious effeminate gay man"; or should we maybe demand better treatment from Hollywood, forcing them to show the true diversity of the Gay community? Now of course these are my opinions, and I was just opening what I thought would be a interesting discussion; and there have been many good and thoughtful responses.

 

That said, I would advise that before you attack someones opinion again as being "dumb", remember that with age comes wisdom; and someday you shall have both. Pete

 

 

Edited November 7, 2011 by Pete Bruno

[Gene Splicer PHD]

the actor that plays Cameron is straight

The one that plays Mitchell is gay

 

So...acting?

[Y_B]

It's not really the look that incites humor, it's more the look attached with attitude and speech/voice. It may be pretty cheap humor, but strong bulky guy with an effeminate voice always gets laughs.

 

It's prolly just me but I don't find much giggles in that case of irony.

 

Also, the token gay guy on tv with the whole gay package is created specifically to entertain you, usually with a comedic gay charm that's only seen on tv. Depending on who you know in real life, you may have really funny friends but based on my own experiences, people and situations are nowhere near as funny in real life as they are on, say, sitcoms. Over the top gay guys on tv entertain me more often than not but over the top gay guys out and about always annoy the shlt out of me no matter what they look like.

 

I don't know if you're joking or not so I don't want to point out that fat, drunk, and stupid is the stereotype of STRAIGHT men; fit, bitch-beer drinking (wine coolers, smirnoff ice, etc.), and cultured is the stereotype for gay men.

 

Hahah true. Up to age 30 or 35. After that, everyone's fat lol.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Yang Bang

[Rizan]

Firstly, I thought that this was a place for discussion, where one could share ideas in a safe forum. Calling someone's opinion "dumb" does not fit that description. Apparently, you missed the entire point of my post, it has nothing to do with my feeling being hurt; the point I was trying to make is, should gay men and women continue to except only being part of a show as comedy relief, like court jesters or freaks in a side show? Should we be happy being continually portrayed as the "hilarious effeminate gay man"; or should we maybe demand better treatment from Hollywood, forcing them to show the true diversity of the Gay community? Now of course these are my opinions, and I was just opening what I thought would be a interesting discussion; and there have been many good and thoughtful responses.

 

That said, I would advise that before you attack someones opinion again as being "dumb", remember that with age comes wisdom; and someday you shall have both. Pete

 

Well, first I would like to start with: you put your reply inside of the quotation. Second, yes: this is a place for discussion, where you can state your own personal beliefs or ideas. MY personal belief, for example, is that expecting a comedic television show to show every side of every human that's ever existed so that you don't get your panties in a bunch is dumb. That's my idea.

 

should gay men and women continue to except only being part of a show as comedy relief, like court jesters or freaks in a side show?

 

Comedic relief? You understand that the show is a comedy, right? ALL OF THE CHARACTERS ARE THERE FOR COMEDIC RELIEF. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE FUNNY; THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.

 

There are plenty of movies and TV shows that present the "diversity" of the gay community. Tonight's Glee episode, for example (which I have yet to watch), will introduce a new gay character that is pretty much a stereotypical jock straight guy, the only difference being he likes penis. There was also Karofsky, who is not only very straight acting but represents a huge part of the gay community: the homophobes that can't admit their sexuality to themselves yet.

 

There's also a fantastic show on Showtimes called Shameless, which is based on the original UK version of the same name. In that show there are four different gay characters (thus far). You have the ginger, who is in ROTC; there's his arch-nemesis turned lover, who is nothing like the stereotypical bottom; the Muslim man who owns the gas station; and the slutty girl that has sex with everything that moves including her boyfriend's father.

 

That's just two shows right off the top of my head that have many different gay characters with different personalities that rarely if ever meet the stereotype.

 

You're just either not looking hard enough, or are only paying attention to the ones that do meet the stereotype, in which case you're just as guilty as hollywood.

[methodwriter85]

OK- here's your badly constructed stereotypical network faggotry: the douche buckets from Modern Family

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a gay basher. These two dip shits make me want to beat the gay out of them.

 

Tell me they are not exploiting stereotypes to get a cheap laugh and reinforce peoples preexisting prejudices of gay men as fat, drunk and stupid.

 

Drinkie-winkie indeed.

 

What is your major malfunction numb-nutz!?

 

Do you turn into a blithering idiot when the camera turns on or are you just acting like a jackass!?

 

Yeah, because being two loving parents who clearly adore their daughter to the point where they're hilariously over-protective while being in a committed marriage that isn't made spicy by "openness" is REALLY pandering to the gay stereotype.

 

They aren't butch. But they DO counteract the Queer As Folk stereotype that all gay men are slutty twink circuit bois who only live for the next trick and would rather die than turn 30 years old.

[PrivateTim]

They aren't butch. But they DO counteract the Queer As Folk stereotype that all gay men are slutty twink circuit bois who only live for the next trick and would rather die than turn 30 years old.

 

Wow, we really need to get you to L.A. Jeremy

 

That "gay men are slutty twink circuit bois who only live for the next trick and would rather die than turn 30 years old" IS the scary norm in West Hollywood. But some how when the twinks do hit 30 and find that they don't dissolve into dust and that there is life beyond WeHo (Silverlake and even the Valley for gawds sake), they kinda grow up.

 

It is fun watching reality hit my friends as they pass that 30 barrier and see how they change, but unfortunately not all my friends made it to 30, two drug overdoses, a drunk driving accident and one suicide by drunk driving (drove himself into a freeway abutment at 90 mph) I am short four friends.

 

The "It Gets Better" message needs to get out there more and not just for the potential suicides, but for the life is vacuous crowd too.

 

I had intended to be flippant when I started the reply, but as I started writing and memories hit me, I thought about it more, we trap ourselves in stereotypes sometimes and to our detriment.

[Pete Bruno]

Wow, we really need to get you to L.A. Jeremy

 

That "gay men are slutty twink circuit bois who only live for the next trick and would rather die than turn 30 years old" IS the scary norm in West Hollywood. But some how when the twinks do hit 30 and find that they don't dissolve into dust and that there is life beyond WeHo (Silverlake and even the Valley for gawds sake), they kinda grow up.

 

It is fun watching reality hit my friends as they pass that 30 barrier and see how they change, but unfortunately not all my friends made it to 30, two drug overdoses, a drunk driving accident and one suicide by drunk driving (drove himself into a freeway abutment at 90 mph) I am short four friends.

 

The "It Gets Better" message needs to get out there more and not just for the potential suicides, but for the life is vacuous crowd too.

 

I had intended to be flippant when I started the reply, but as I started writing and memories hit me, I thought about it more, we trap ourselves in stereotypes sometimes and to our detriment.

 

That is part of my point. Being MUCH older than most of you guys, I had the advantage of living the care-free life before AID's, I also spent time working in a big city night club and I saw a lot of self-destruction. Tim is correct about turning 30, although I found that turning 50 was much more liberating. Yeah, maybe a little less hair and you may have to work out a bit more to fend off the spread. So don't trap yourself, go out and live your life. Remember what Auntie Mame said, "Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!"

[TetRefine]

Damn, you guys make it sound like turning 30 is a death sentence. If thats true, then I'm lucky. I'm only 2/3 of the way to 30, so I still got 10 more years to enjoy life.

[Y_B]

30??? Dear lord...and I thought turning 22 was bad. Next year I may have to start collecting my retirement benefits...it'll help pay for my new electronic stairs lift I'm installing already

[TalonRider]

Yes, there is life after 30.

[JamesSavik]

They aren't butch. But they DO counteract the Queer As Folk stereotype that all gay men are slutty twink circuit bois who only live for the next trick and would rather die than turn 30 years old.

 

I prefer the QAS stereotype to the raging pussy stereotype.

[methodwriter85]

Wow, we really need to get you to L.A. Jeremy

 

I had intended to be flippant when I started the reply, but as I started writing and memories hit me, I thought about it more, we trap ourselves in stereotypes sometimes and to our detriment.

 

My sister used to do rave promotions back in 2000-2002-ish for Philly, so the first scores of gay men I met were basically the drugged out raver twink types. I've met more diverse guys since then, but the drugged out twink type has definitely endured as a stereotype. I had this conversation with a 19-year old twink who told me about how he likes to do blow to keep him amped up for go-go dancing in gay clubs in Pittsburgh, and I just thought, "Wow, you're so Queer As Folk and it's 2011. Some things remain."

 

I don't think it's so much not being in L.A. for me; it's more that my basic social circle doesn't really include many people that are over 30 so I haven't really seen what you're talking about yet. The average age of the people I hang around is usually somewhere around 20-22 years old; I'm nearly 26 and I'm usually at least five years older than my average friends. It's seriously weird to think that I'll be thirty in just four years and one month. Crazy. I swear I was 21 just yesterday.

Edited November 9, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Rizan]

I refuse to accept the belief that life continues beyond 30.

 

Everyone knows that on the night of your 30th birthday men in black coats come to take you away and replace you with the dysfunctional automatons we call Old People.

[Matthew k]

I refuse to accept the belief that life continues beyond 30.

 

Everyone knows that on the night of your 30th birthday men in black coats come to take you away and replace you with the dysfunctional automatons we call Old People.

 

Hmmmm.

 

[John Doe]

As I read this I can hear and understand where everyone is coming from... but think about it. Through this discussion, there were ideas of what a stereotype was. Fact of the matter is, they exist because there is some truth to it. It's a trait that society has grabbed, keeping a tight hold, saying this is the trait that protrays <insert character here>. They're real. The stereotype of the <insert character here> has evolved over the years. Look through out media/entertainment history, and you'll see prime examples of the what a gay man was/is. Effeminate gay men exists. Butch lesbains exists. Smart nerdy Asians exists. Stupid bimboo blondes exists. Terrorist muslims exists. We all know this and we all know that its not a fact of life that every single person belonging to that stereotype is like the stereotype. But people need to make sense of the world around them. When something happens they need to reaffrim or disallude themselves as to why something happen and they revert to stereotypes... hence thats why there's such a bad connotation with stereotypes.

 

Asians eat rice, Mexicans eat tortillas, and white people eat bread. Is that a stereotype or fact of culture? I have a cousin who hates rice, family says he's been brain washed by white folks. So is that a stereotype? When is something "culture" and the other is "stereotype"? The lines blur because they are both. Stereotypes just so happened to be the fad belief of what people can easily identitfy to what a person is... and for sitcoms like "Modern Family" they have to have stereotypes. Comedic sitcoms/TV shows are all about catching the viewer for that one episode to catch their interest. There isn't a complex arching story line that can trap the viewer...so they have to rely on "stereotypes" to draw their characters. I know the point of this thread is saying that it is "wrong" ... but I have to wonder... is it? Why would it be wrong? Because it paints a picture of what a gay man is? It paints a picture of what a gay man is for that character. The problem people seem to have is this notion that stereotypes are describing them... that it is attacking/representing them personally. Get over yourself. People say the only way for people to overcome stereotypes is for people to stop using them. I disagree. I believe the way to get over stereotypes is to distance yourself from them. Acknowledge them for what they are, know and understand that what's being said isn't a statement about you (again get over yourself) and move on. You can't erase stereotypes because they are interlinked with a certain culture, a fabric of life within that culture. If you want to erase stereotypes by removing them completely you should start removing the people who "portrays" them in real life too. I suggest reading Hilter's book. It might give a few ideas (*orgeface* aka *trollface*). The issue is that people don't pull that distance; they won't allow themselves the knowledge that what being said is just a small characterization of a culture that can be found in a percentage of members belonging to that culture. But that's not what a gay man is?! Really? It's not? NO! Well then by all means, you can tell my flamboyant and effeminate gay friends that.... I'm sure they would love to hear that they are in fact not gay (I don't have any effeminate/flamboyant gay friends btw, but still if I did...) It paints a bad picture of a gay man. Ahem read above and get over yourself. It's not about you. It's about us. If you too worried about how someone might think about you based of a certain protrayed characteristic, then I suggest a confidence therapist might be needed. I like to say: Stereotypes don't define me, I define stereotypes. (Okay I don't really say that.)

 

I'll give another two cent: some people may argue that these <sitcom characters> aren't round. I hate when people say this about any character - books, tv show, and/or movies. Or when they say they aren't three dimensional. I know for a fact folks in TV shows like Modern Family and whatever shows you can think of that has "flat" characters that those "flat" characters has more depth to them than the viewers watching them. They showcase a variety of feelings and thoughts and they're entertaining which is more than I can say about most of the viewers watching the show (at least entertain more folks than the ones watching them and complaining that they are flat). People confuse the inability to sympathize with a character as being flat. Just because you can't relate to a character doesn't mean he/she is flat. (Though I do have to say...yes there are (many) characters who are truely flat, but I've seen it said too many times for decent molded charcters and I know it's just based on that feact that the viewer/reader disagrees with characters actions or fail to understand a character and ignorantly says the character is flat). Whew...soapbox was been washed and cleaned. For the moment.

 

I'm a few years from 30. And I've been 30 the day I turned 22. So eh. Plus athletic men in their 30s are so much hotter than frat boys and gym pups (who are usually in their twenties... yeah I'm stereotyping. It happens.)

 

And just because someone is 21 and lives in the UK doesn't mean his thoughts aren't worth as much as yours. I could careless about when and where you grew up. (actually I care a lot, but I mean to say it doesn't immediately demerits someone else). I still know/ known folks in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and days next to their death beds who still make/made stupid irresponsible decisions and are still ignorant to the world in which they live in and lacks a grasp on the realities of the world and the poeple around them. And I've known children, folks younger than myself who spoke wiser words than my grandparents and - I know this is really hard to believe - myself. Don't throw your age around like its your proof that what you say is more important. Gosh its like having a degree right now. And you know what degrees are worth, right now? Nothing. Sure it may give you small insight to something but that doesn't make anyone else thoughts or insight worthless. (Though I do have to say, the person should have spoken with more clairity and intellgence... but still even in this day and age people still suffer from backlash. It ain't paradise yet. You'll never know what circumstance belongs to whom (grammer patrol I probs used whom wrong, and I don't care!)).

[Pete Bruno]

"Don't throw your age around like its your proof that what you say is more important. Gosh its like having a degree right now. And you know what degrees are worth, right now? Nothing."

I'm not quite sure to whom you're referring; but you know what, it's really not worth going on. Is it just me, or does it seem that you can no longer have a discussion?

[John Doe]

"Don't throw your age around like its your proof that what you say is more important. Gosh its like having a degree right now. And you know what degrees are worth, right now? Nothing."

I'm not quite sure to whom you're referring; but you know what, it's really not worth going on. Is it just me, or does it seem that you can no longer have a discussion?

 

You can always have a discussion.

 

I think that you meant to type "could pass as straight were too busy hiding."

It says that you are a 21 year old gay man from the UK, if that is correct you really do not have enough information to make such a comment; but fortunately I do.

But here's what I was addressing. This immediately dismissed who ever was commenting to something that was said. It's a very self important phrasing, as if you are the sole experiencer. What you had to say was important, but do you know of that other's person's experience? So what if he's 21 and lives in the UK, he could be subjected to things you could only imagine. There's a saying out there that says something to the like: "You aren't the only person in the world who has experienced suffering and pain." You had very relevant and important things to say. But speak like someone who cares and not like someone who thinks they are better than everyone else or a certain someone else. I'm not attacking you personally rather just using you as an example. Even I sometimes don't pay attention to what I say when it's something I care passionately about. You could always have discussions, but willing ears and open hearts and attitudes are hard to find when you come off as self-rightous and what one has to say is more important than anything that anyone else has to say.

[Pete Bruno]

Is it always your practice to read up to the point you disagree and then make your impassioned comment. Let's review the rest of the reply you quoted for context.

 

(Oh, and the gay pride comment? Those are the people who actually fought for gay rights. The people who could pass as gay were too busy hiding.)

Martin

 

I think that you meant to type "could pass as straight were too busy hiding."

If that is the case you really don't know what you are talking about. It says that you are a 21 year old gay man from the UK, if that is correct you really do not have enough information to make such a comment; but fortunately I do. Being a gay 13 year old boy in 1969 or a 21 year old man for that matter was not easy, let alone safe, you forced to "butch it up" as much as possible or risk getting your ass beat on a daily basis. There was also little help available for gay men in small town America, almost everyone was homophobic from your teachers (priests and nuns included) to the police and even parents. Myself, I was lucky, my size and build along with the fact that I played sports deflected unwanted attention, but when I was a young and skinny 10 year old with a lisp I got plenty of unwanted attention in the form of bullying, so I did what I had to do. It wasn't hiding as you put, it was survival. Remember that the men who fought at the Stonewall in '69 had the protection of living in a huge city, or that scene would have ended much differently in small town America; and remember they were the ones "who actually fought" for gay rights, they were the brave men who risked everything so there could be gay pride parades. Finally, I envy your youth, and the fact that you are lucky enough to live in a time that gives you much more freedom and safety to be yourself than was ever afforded men my age and older, but please try and remember the next time you feel the need to accuse anyone of "hiding" you must remember the times and circumstances we lived in.

 

I did not "immediately" dismiss him. In fact, I thought my reply was very considerate considering what he wrote was inaccurate, and I thought combative as well. Again, when you read my reply in the it's full context, I was indeed correct; and I will agree that I'm not the only person in the world to suffer pain. However that was not part of the discussion, I was answering a completely inaccurate and false charge against an entire generation of gay men. You wrote, "So what if he's 21 and lives in the UK, he could be subjected to things you could only imagine", and you are correct he just may have been, but we were discussing something. Yes you are correct, I had relevant and important things to say, and I think if one were to read my comment in it's full and correct context, one would see my point. Now let's look at your comments, you say, " It's a very self important phrasing, as if you are the sole experiencer. (sic)" Actually I thought I did a pretty good job speaking for my generation and those before me. Than you wrote this, "Don't throw your age around like its your proof that what you say is more important. Gosh its like having a degree right now. And you know what degrees are worth, right now? Nothing." Again, I don't see how I was throwing my age around, I was responding to a specious claim using my own life experience as an example. But of course my favorite, "but willing ears and open hearts and attitudes are hard to find when you come off as self-rightous (sic) and what one has to say is more important than anything that anyone else has to say", that is rich, after all you wrote, admonishing me, and accusing me of not having "willing ears and open hearts" you call me self-righteous"? Really?

Edited November 13, 2011 by Pete Bruno