rjo Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 In about three chapters, I'll show you what happens when you do that with a bright, and very high-spirited, free-thinking teenager. That thought makes me cringe. I have been rereading the saga starting with the Land Whore. In doing so I am trying to see the difference between Brad and Will. If you take out the kidnapped and rape, the pole dance I don't think you see much difference. In fact, Brad was worse. The idea of Brad turning into his mother is almost unthinkable. Sparing the rod does not spoil the child. This will hurt both of them. What is my greatest worry is that the bond between father and son could be broken. That would be tragic. I have never had children. I wish I would have. At this point it is much to late, but I know the bond between father and son is sacred, precious, something that is worth more then all the wealth in the world. If these characters were real, I would tell them wake up look what you could lose! 3
PrivateTim Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Here's something that's kept coming up with me often. Will was born in September of 1986. I was born in December of 1985. There is only nine-month lag between our birthdates. So I tend to think and relate to Will as being like a peer, because he was born in '86 and my peers are generally people born between '84 to about '88. But of course, I'm 26 years old and Will's only 14, and I think a part of me expects for Will to be more mature because of that. The other thing was that, I remember that the initial way Will was written was that he was supposed to be That Guy. That cool guy you knew in 9th grade, who was so much more mature and laidback than most of the other rambunctious 9th grade kids you knew, who just seemed like he was already a senior, or even in college. But it does seem like Mark went another way with his characterization so that while Will is very bright and can be very perceptive, he's still very much an 14-year old. That just wasn't what I was expecting from the character, though. I think that observation misses how different a teen can be at school with his peers and then at home. At points Will seems to think he is a senior already, but he isn't. And even when he IS a senior in high school, he will still have a lot of growing up to do.
PrivateTim Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 That thought makes me cringe. I have been rereading the saga starting with the Land Whore. In doing so I am trying to see the difference between Brad and Will. If you take out the kidnapped and rape, the pole dance I don't think you see much difference. In fact, Brad was worse. The idea of Brad turning into his mother is almost unthinkable. Sparing the rod does not spoil the child. This will hurt both of them. What is my greatest worry is that the bond between father and son could be broken. That would be tragic. I have never had children. I wish I would have. At this point it is much to late, but I know the bond between father and son is sacred, precious, something that is worth more then all the wealth in the world. If these characters were real, I would tell them wake up look what you could lose! At this point in their relationship, Brad and Will, it isn't too different from my father and I. We were close through my freshman year and then when I started to drive as a soph all hell seemed to break loose as I became more independent. It wasn't all bad times, but it wasn't until I came home that first vacation in college for Thanksgiving that things seemed to have moved on to a better relationship. Brad will never be his mother, but I think sometimes kids who were brats grow up to be stricter with their kids wanting to keep them from "making the same mistakes". 1
JLK9N Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 I truly appreciate the concept that those of us who haven't had kids (and are so old we don't remember when WE were 14... ) that it takes a bit to stand back and realize teens like Will DO act this way. And one of the things that has always made me love these stories is how real and multi-faceted the characters are. So while I still think Stef needs to stop undermining Will's parents by giving the boy money, I am quite happy to sit back and watch how things develop. And I do think Brad and my beloved Robbie do need to 'come around' and realize their kid needs more from them. Probably 'because' of all the stuff that happened (in CAP time) in the recent past. 1
Mark Arbour Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 I think that observation misses how different a teen can be at school with his peers and then at home. This is exactly the point I was planning to make, but you did it for me.
davewri Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 About Will “He doesn’t want stuff, he wants love and attention. When he goes home at night, who’s there for him?” Something basic for all of us, to know that someone cares. 3
Matthew k Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 I truly appreciate the concept that those of us who haven't had kids (and are so old we don't remember when WE were 14... ) that it takes a bit to stand back and realize teens like Will DO act this way. And one of the things that has always made me love these stories is how real and multi-faceted the characters are. So while I still think Stef needs to stop undermining Will's parents by giving the boy money, I am quite happy to sit back and watch how things develop. And I do think Brad and my beloved Robbie do need to 'come around' and realize their kid needs more from them. Probably 'because' of all the stuff that happened (in CAP time) in the recent past. Stef is pretty smart. I don't think he is giving Will the money to undermine Brad, but to send Brad a very clear message. If Brad would step back two paces and analyze the situation the way he does in business, he might actually figure it out. 2
Mark Arbour Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 Stef is pretty smart. I don't think he is giving Will the money to undermine Brad, but to send Brad a very clear message. If Brad would step back two paces and analyze the situation the way he does in business, he might actually figure it out. Great to see you hanging around again! I think you're absolutely right.
Matthew k Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 Great to see you hanging around again! I think you're absolutely right. Oh I am always lurking, never miss a chapter, but only jump in on lazy Sundays
Mark Arbour Posted April 16, 2012 Author Posted April 16, 2012 Oh I am always lurking, never miss a chapter, but only jump in on lazy Sundays I think you should spend your Sundays with hot, sweaty men.
MJ85 Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 That thought makes me cringe. I have been rereading the saga starting with the Land Whore. In doing so I am trying to see the difference between Brad and Will. If you take out the kidnapped and rape, the pole dance I don't think you see much difference. In fact, Brad was worse. The idea of Brad turning into his mother is almost unthinkable. Sparing the rod does not spoil the child. This will hurt both of them. What is my greatest worry is that the bond between father and son could be broken. That would be tragic. I have never had children. I wish I would have. At this point it is much to late, but I know the bond between father and son is sacred, precious, something that is worth more then all the wealth in the world. If these characters were real, I would tell them wake up look what you could lose! I find that I cringe thinking about this coming up, too...I see "breaking his spirit" and I imagine something other than simple discipline. In the hands of Brad and Robbie, with the way things are now, I imagine something truly horrible, something that will do more than just break any father-son bonds forever. I imagine something that Brad would be a monster for doing, under any circumstances, something that would cause irreversible damage. Maybe I'm overreacting a bit, but at the very least, I don't see "breaking his spirit" as a euphemism for simple discipline. 1
centexhairysub Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 I think you should spend your Sundays with hot, sweaty men. Amen and Hallelujah... that is a church I can bend a knee in.....
centexhairysub Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 I find that I cringe thinking about this coming up, too...I see "breaking his spirit" and I imagine something other than simple discipline. In the hands of Brad and Robbie, with the way things are now, I imagine something truly horrible, something that will do more than just break any father-son bonds forever. I imagine something that Brad would be a monster for doing, under any circumstances, something that would cause irreversible damage. Maybe I'm overreacting a bit, but at the very least, I don't see "breaking his spirit" as a euphemism for simple discipline. I was worried when I read Mark's original post, but the more I thought about it; the more certain I was that JP, Stef, etc would never allow Brad to do something so dangerous. I have to think that maybe what Mark was referring to is going to happen to someone besides Will and that will maybe make Brad take a look at how he is treating Will. I am going to hope for my outcome, while I await Mark's next few chapters... 3
Daddydavek Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 Me too. Made me laugh! As I patiently await the next chapter.....
Mark Arbour Posted April 16, 2012 Author Posted April 16, 2012 The next chapter will post mid-week. Chapter 29 is the start of Will and JJ's float trip down the Colorado River.
Daddydavek Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 Chapter 29 is all about Will who is not being very helpful in resolving his problem with his dad and pops. The two dads are the adults, but not so much. Will does help Ryan with a problem.
methodwriter85 Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) I think my favorite thing about high school overnight trips was seeing how much shit people got away with. I didn't know the kids who got away with bringing bud and the like, but I'm sure it happened. Kids always find a way. I remember one time I snuck out and hung out with some kids who were watching the stars- some people were cuddling and the like and I'm sure sex happened, but I wasn't in on any of that. I just had friends that were doing it. Yes. I really was JJ in high school. LOL. I'm kinda surprised JJ hasn't gone into a bitch fit about the reality of being out in the woods. You would think he'd be more soft than that, and moan about how his Luis Vuitton baggage has been ruined. (Not that I ever bitched when I've spent time in the great outdoors bemoaning the lack of amenities and like. No siree.) Brad and Robbie don't seem like the outdoors type, nor does it seem like they sent their kids to summer camp, so that was surprising. I kind of figured that Ryan's racist father was what happened with Shiloh and Ryan. I also kind of figured that we really weren't being set up for a "Will falls in love with his straight best friend" storyline, and I'm glad that got confirmed that's it more of a "buddies helping each other" kind of deal. I picture Raine as this free-spirit type, born in 1986 to hippie-type parents who run some kind of animal cruelty-free corporation and espoused on her the virtues of open relationships and letting her be her own person without getting caught up on labels. Which would be cool. I've had friends who had parents like that, and they were always kind of a trip. I love that this is happening with Raine being entirely in the know that Will speaks fag fluently, instead of being in the dark about that. Edited April 18, 2012 by methodwriter85
centexhairysub Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 I don't know why but through the whole chapter one thought kept running through my head: " Danger Will Robinson, Danger Danger Will Robinson "
Mark Arbour Posted April 18, 2012 Author Posted April 18, 2012 That is because you've read my stories. :-)
Mark Arbour Posted April 18, 2012 Author Posted April 18, 2012 Chapter 29 is all about Will who is not being very helpful in resolving his problem with his dad and pops. The two dads are the adults, but not so much. Will does help Ryan with a problem. When I wrote that initial conflict, I was trying to capture that unique teenage ability to completely blow things out of proportion. Will (and to a lesser degree, JJ) are already upset and pissed off about being blown off by Will and Robbie. Then Brad and Robbie screw up and don't see them off, and it becomes this big, huge deal. Teenagers love pity parties, and this is a great excuse for one. That being said, and as I noted in my response to one of the reviews, Brad's comment that Will and JJ should have woken them up was pretty inexcusable. I really really hate it when people don't take responsibility for their mistakes. Visualize how much different the conversation would have gone if Brad would have opened with this line instead: "I just wanted to call and wish you guys a good trip. I'm sorry that we screwed up and didn't see you off this morning. I feel really bad about that, and so does Pop. We'll be there to pick you up when you get back on Friday." 2
MJ85 Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 Visualize how much different the conversation would have gone if Brad would have opened with this line instead: "I just wanted to call and wish you guys a good trip. I'm sorry that we screwed up and didn't see you off this morning. I feel really bad about that, and so does Pop. We'll be there to pick you up when you get back on Friday." Assuming, of course, that Will believed he was sincere about that - which, given the state of things now, there's a good chance that he would not have. 1
JLK9N Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) This was a pretty big F-up on the part of Brad. And how dare my beloved Robbie be such a bitch! <g> But geez, these guys need to man up and be the parents. How could either one of them even think either kid - or anyone else!! - would give them a pass on this? It's just not cool, not acceptable. Even Will doesn't deserve THAT. Edited April 19, 2012 by JLK9N 2
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