Paternity

[Mark Arbour]

Assuming, of course, that Will believed he was sincere about that - which, given the state of things now, there's a good chance that he would not have.

 

Now that's an excellent point. Still, I think he would have reacted better to that than "you should have woken us up."

 

_{This was a pretty big F-up on the part of Brad. And how dare my beloved Robbie be such a bitch! <g> But geez, these guys need to man up and be the parents. How could either one of them even think either kid - or anyone else!! - would give them a pass on this? It's just not cool, not acceptable. Even Will doesn't deserve THAT.}

 

When I think of Robbie, I visualize this lovable guy who's pretty awesome, but makes stupid mistakes from time to time, and goes through periods of cluelessness. He usually gets there in the end though.

[rjo]

For some time I have wondered where is the kind and lovable Robbie and Brad who once was more than willing to die for his son. The question is did someone take them away and put those two characters who are so clueless, so dumb, so brainless in their place? In my book they get the most worthless parents of the year award. Remember this come from me a former Bradophile.

Edited April 20, 2012 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

I don't know, I kind of thought both Robbie and Brad took some major character hits for their behavior during Millennium, and the cutesy little wedding scene didn't really make up for it.

[Mark Arbour]

I don't know, I kind of thought both Robbie and Brad took some major character hits for their behavior during Millennium, and the cutesy little wedding scene didn't really make up for it.

 

Cutesy? Whatever.

[Daddydavek]

We've seen Brad and Robbie through teenage, college and early and now middle adult years. They have led interesting lives to date and I expect that will continue. They have had monumental fuck-ups in their relationship and have come through a lot. Brad has always had more of a clue than Robbie, but Robbie is more sentimental and perhaps a little more likeable. The fact that they are making mistakes as parents seems pretty normal to me. Most parents screw things up. Just ask the kids. Kids screw-up more, but they get a pass because they are kids. Nobody is perfect. I suspect that Brad and Robbie have some issue not yet on the reader's radar nor on Will's that is a major distraction, but that is just speculation. In due time I suspect some explanation will emerge, but for now the drama continues and I for one am enjoying it.

[Daddydavek]

Chapter 30 is up and should add more fuel to the discussion about the relative merits of the parents vs. Will!

 

Don't you just love it!

[methodwriter85]

This is really hard to admit this, but god, if I were in JJ's position, I so would have sold Will out like he did. It's such a dick move, but when you're an attention whore, you'll do anything to get it and you don't think so much about whether or not what you're saying is hurtful or not. JJ really does remind me of myself at 14, and not in the best ways.

 

I liked Raine just being Ms. Open and Free and not so hung up on labels, and I liked that Will enjoyed his experience. It kind of reminded me of Kelly and Danny on Real World- Danny was gay, but they did have an attraction to each other, and explored that by making out.

 

Finally...yay! We get to see how strict and not as taking-of-b.s. HW is! I've felt like so far they've been exceedingly lax on Will, with the amount of time they've let him take off to attend JJ's meets, so it's nice to see them in action.

[Mark Arbour]

This is really hard to admit this, but god, if I were in JJ's position, I so would have sold Will out like he did. It's such a dick move, but when you're an attention whore, you'll do anything to get it and you don't think so much about whether or not what you're saying is hurtful or not. JJ really does remind me of myself at 14, and not in the best ways.

 

I liked Raine just being Ms. Open and Free and not so hung up on labels, and I liked that Will enjoyed his experience. It kind of reminded me of Kelly and Danny on Real World- Danny was gay, but they did have an attraction to each other, and explored that by making out.

 

Finally...yay! We get to see how strict and not as taking-of-b.s. HW is! I've felt like so far they've been exceedingly lax on Will, with the amount of time they've let him take off to attend JJ's meets, so it's nice to see them in action.

 

If memory serves, Will only took off half a day to go see JJ skate. That's not exactly stretching their policies very far.

[MJ85]

Remember, next chapter is the strict disciplinarian chapter, so...be careful what you wish for, you just might get it!

 

Having said that...I was afraid something like this would happen with Will getting busted, but at the same time...I feel like Tom wouldn't have suddenly showed up, if not for the warning that this was coming. So...yeah, you definitely telegraphed that one, Mark.

 

I'm anticipating the next several Will chapters to be pretty well ugly...there's really only one thing that Brad and Robbie might comprehend from Will (keyword, might) at this point: the message that he feels they don't love him any more. And the way things have gone, it wouldn't surprise me if that message came out in the most incomprehensible way possible: a fit of full-on rage.

 

Not saying Will deserves to get off scot-free, but since I'm sensing that the forthcoming discipline will be overly harsh even by past standards...if I were Will, completely broken, unloved, AND beaten, I'd be thinking about running far away, leaving everything behind...and not going back.

 

I am now fearing for Will's safety. Has it been worth taking this story to this point?

[centexhairysub]

Well, just finished the latest chapter and don't even know where to start.

 

I loved Will's interaction with Raine and all the girls, that is just the way it is; women/girls/old ladies never seem to have the issues with gay men that other men/boys/old men do... And I can promise you that the gay boy was the best kisser... LOL...

 

I am sort of saw Ryan's reaction to having full on sex with Will coming a mile off. He is the type of guy that can handle a blowjob but full on anal sex was probably more than he was expecting or equiped to handle. I do think the way even when he got pissed at him, Will tried to stand by and help Ryan says a lot.

 

I just don't even know where to start with Brad and Robbie. I don't care what else is going on in their lives and behind the veil so to speak that we aren't aware of; nothing short of one of them dying of a terminal disease, can excuse how they are treating Will. I have never been a very big Brad fan, and always liked Robbie a lot more; but I am seriously rooting for a actual plane crash with the two of them aboard and no survivors. I even think that in the last chapter Will was way to harsh with both of them just because their alarm clock failed, do we really believe that is what happened???? That being said their reaction is just so out of bounds considering some of the stuff they both pulled growing up. Compared to both of them, Will has lead a rather basic teen life; the only exception is the stripping in a gay club in Rome, but I am sort of tired of everyone bringing that up... Not only am I rooting for Will to win the war but I hope that he scorches both Brad and Robbie with third degree burns...

*******************************************************************************************

 

Okay, I am adding this second part after reading some of the reviews for the chapter and Mark made a comment there that I really want to reply to... In a response to one of the reviews Mark talks about how after some battles with both his father and son, he was suprised how easy it was to forgive... I think that can be the case but often battles fought out in the early and mid teen years are the hardest to get past and can permenately damage family relationships...

 

I had a cousin that when he was fifteen had a complete blow up with his dad and stepmom, and yes, I do really believe the biggest problem was the stepmom but that might be because I always knew she was a backstabbing slut... Anyway, the battle started off small, it actually started about how Steven had decorated his bedroom; there was some posters that the stepmom really hated. She worked on the dad and from there it just escalated. In the space of one summer, Steven and his dad reached an impasse that still hasn't been bridged almost twenty years later. Steven ended up running away from home, dropping out of school, and spending almost two years lost to us all. He did come back shortly before his seventeenth birthday and moved in with our grandparents. I can actually say that I was never really close to Steven before he left, there really was too much of an age difference between us; but I spent a lot of time with him when he came back. He needed someone to talk to and I was always sort of the families' Father Confessor... Before the break, Steven and his dad had always had what I still believe to be a really close and tight-knit relationship; but afterward it was never the same. Even now, almost twenty years later they still can't even be civil to each other and can't hardly be invited to the same family gathering unless there is a way to keep them seperated. I know that Steven has tried to go to his dad a couple of times, but his dad for whatever reason has never been able to unbend and admit he was wrong in how he treated Steven.

 

I had really just moved back near my family and had a fairly ringside seat for that summer of all out war. They started by clearing out his room when he was gone one day, taking down all the posters and boxing up most of his music, book, etc... Supposedly, this was because he wouldn't respect his stepmom's request to take down a couple of posters. Things so escalated and they stopped giving him an allowance, grounded him, made him go to some stupid church camp that his stepmom was involve in, and finally late in the summer he actually got physical. His stepmom got drunk one night at a bar-b-que and kept making bitchy comments and Steven finally blew up and called her a stupid slut, or the equivilant of that... His dad actually hit him a couple of times and had to be pulled off of him. Steven ran away two night later. I don't think his dad or stepmom even told anyone or made a police report for almost a week after he left. It didn't just split Steven and his father up, it damaged his dad and stepmom's relationship with most of the rest of the family, at least the part that really counted. His dad and stepmom are still together, but even all these years later no one in the family has really ever forgiven or forgotten what happened. When both of Steven's grandparents died, they totally cut their son out of their will except for small token amounts; he contested both wills but lost both time. It wasn't just the money that his falling out with Steven cost him, it was the respect of the rest of the family. Clifford, Steven's dad, had always seemed to be really level headed but it was like that summer he lost his mind and couldn't or wouldn't see anyone elses point of view. The fact that Steven tried a couple of times to repair the damage only to be rebuffed sealed everyones feeling on the matter. I don't think that anyone thought Steven was completely innocent in all of the actions that summer, he never got along with Janabeth, his stepmom, and everyone really knew that. But Clifford and Janabeth went so far out of all bounds of reason and just continued to escalate the situation until they alienated everyone. It was like once they started down that trail, they couldn't or wouldn't turn back from it.

 

Steven and his dad always had a tight relationship up until that summer, but to this day I don't believe either would piss on the other to put them out if they were on fire... It might be easy for some to forgive but for other that is just one step to far...

Edited April 21, 2012 by centexhairysub

[Canuk]

Well, just finished the latest chapter and don't even know where to start.

 

I loved Will's interaction with Raine and all the girls, that is just the way it is; women/girls/old ladies never seem to have the issues with gay men that other men/boys/old men do... And I can promise you that the gay boy was the best kisser... LOL...

 

I am sort of saw Ryan's reaction to having full on sex with Will coming a mile off. He is the type of guy that can handle a blowjob but full on anal sex was probably more than he was expecting or equiped to handle. I do think the way even when he got pissed at him, Will tried to stand by and help Ryan says a lot.

 

I just don't even know where to start with Brad and Robbie. I don't care what else is going on in their lives and behind the veil so to speak that we aren't aware of; nothing short of one of them dying of a terminal disease, can excuse how they are treating Will. I have never been a very big Brad fan, and always liked Robbie a lot more; but I am seriously rooting for a actual plane crash with the two of them aboard and no survivors. I even think that in the last chapter Will was way to harsh with both of them just because their alarm clock failed, do we really believe that is what happened???? That being said their reaction is just so out of bounds considering some of the stuff they both pulled growing up. Compared to both of them, Will has lead a rather basic teen life; the only exception is the stripping in a gay club in Rome, but I am sort of tired of everyone bringing that up... Not only am I rooting for Will to win the war but I hope that he scorches both Brad and Robbie with third degree burns...

 

I so agree - Mark, I dread to think where you found the role model on which to base what can only be described as two of the most stupid parents I have ever come across. I think what left me utterly speechless was the introduction of a marine who is a child psychologist; are they just trying to see how far they can push him? Brad and Robbie are not old, so if they lose a son they will have a long time to repent their actions.

 

Well written - I don't usually get so worked up about fictional characters in fictional situations!

[GLH]

I have to agree with centex and Canuk on all their points... and I can only hope Dennis Martin turns out to be a comic foil for Will's shenanigans.

 

JJ's sell out of Will brings back so many memories.

 

Good job Mark!

Edited April 21, 2012 by GLH

[MJ85]

I'm actually not hoping that there's something big going on that's got their attention that we don't yet know about. For that to be the case, would make the drama set-up of this story seem so much larger than would the premise of examining father-son relationships. I feel like...if it's just Brad and Robbie failing, really really badly at this, that brings the father-son point home. But if it's the something mysterious going on, that brings the "oh, it's a drama!" point home. Quite honestly, for it to be the latter would leave a very bad taste in my mouth. Why? Because since it would reinforce the drama aspect, it would at the same time make the father-son premise look less like the heart of this story, and more like a device to merely fuel the story drama.

[methodwriter85]

JJ's sell out of Will brings back so many memories.

 

It did for me, too.

 

When someone's the "favored" child, like Will was/is, there's a little bit of satisfaction in seeing them fall/fail at something. Will was clearly the golden kid at Malibu, and it looks like things are heading that way here at HW, so I can't help but think that annoys JJ just a bit. Not to the point where JJ is deathly jealous of Will(I don't think they're Cal and Aron from East of Eden), but there's going to be a little bit of a grin when the Golden Boy falls off his pedestal.

Edited April 21, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

Remember, next chapter is the strict disciplinarian chapter, so...be careful what you wish for, you just might get it!

 

Having said that...I was afraid something like this would happen with Will getting busted, but at the same time...I feel like Tom wouldn't have suddenly showed up, if not for the warning that this was coming. So...yeah, you definitely telegraphed that one, Mark.

 

I'm anticipating the next several Will chapters to be pretty well ugly...there's really only one thing that Brad and Robbie might comprehend from Will (keyword, might) at this point: the message that he feels they don't love him any more. And the way things have gone, it wouldn't surprise me if that message came out in the most incomprehensible way possible: a fit of full-on rage.

 

Not saying Will deserves to get off scot-free, but since I'm sensing that the forthcoming discipline will be overly harsh even by past standards...if I were Will, completely broken, unloved, AND beaten, I'd be thinking about running far away, leaving everything behind...and not going back.

 

I am now fearing for Will's safety. Has it been worth taking this story to this point?

 

I think you should give Will more credit than that. He's a really smart guy, and I think that his brains and wits will keep him safe, more or less.

 

Well, just finished the latest chapter and don't even know where to start.

 

I loved Will's interaction with Raine and all the girls, that is just the way it is; women/girls/old ladies never seem to have the issues with gay men that other men/boys/old men do... And I can promise you that the gay boy was the best kisser... LOL...

 

I am sort of saw Ryan's reaction to having full on sex with Will coming a mile off. He is the type of guy that can handle a blowjob but full on anal sex was probably more than he was expecting or equiped to handle. I do think the way even when he got pissed at him, Will tried to stand by and help Ryan says a lot.

 

I just don't even know where to start with Brad and Robbie. I don't care what else is going on in their lives and behind the veil so to speak that we aren't aware of; nothing short of one of them dying of a terminal disease, can excuse how they are treating Will. I have never been a very big Brad fan, and always liked Robbie a lot more; but I am seriously rooting for a actual plane crash with the two of them aboard and no survivors. I even think that in the last chapter Will was way to harsh with both of them just because their alarm clock failed, do we really believe that is what happened???? That being said their reaction is just so out of bounds considering some of the stuff they both pulled growing up. Compared to both of them, Will has lead a rather basic teen life; the only exception is the stripping in a gay club in Rome, but I am sort of tired of everyone bringing that up... Not only am I rooting for Will to win the war but I hope that he scorches both Brad and Robbie with third degree burns...

*******************************************************************************************

 

Okay, I am adding this second part after reading some of the reviews for the chapter and Mark made a comment there that I really want to reply to... In a response to one of the reviews Mark talks about how after some battles with both his father and son, he was suprised how easy it was to forgive... I think that can be the case but often battles fought out in the early and mid teen years are the hardest to get past and can permenately damage family relationships...

 

I had a cousin that when he was fifteen had a complete blow up with his dad and stepmom, and yes, I do really believe the biggest problem was the stepmom but that might be because I always knew she was a backstabbing slut... Anyway, the battle started off small, it actually started about how Steven had decorated his bedroom; there was some posters that the stepmom really hated. She worked on the dad and from there it just escalated. In the space of one summer, Steven and his dad reached an impasse that still hasn't been bridged almost twenty years later. Steven ended up running away from home, dropping out of school, and spending almost two years lost to us all. He did come back shortly before his seventeenth birthday and moved in with our grandparents. I can actually say that I was never really close to Steven before he left, there really was too much of an age difference between us; but I spent a lot of time with him when he came back. He needed someone to talk to and I was always sort of the families' Father Confessor... Before the break, Steven and his dad had always had what I still believe to be a really close and tight-knit relationship; but afterward it was never the same. Even now, almost twenty years later they still can't even be civil to each other and can't hardly be invited to the same family gathering unless there is a way to keep them seperated. I know that Steven has tried to go to his dad a couple of times, but his dad for whatever reason has never been able to unbend and admit he was wrong in how he treated Steven.

 

I had really just moved back near my family and had a fairly ringside seat for that summer of all out war. They started by clearing out his room when he was gone one day, taking down all the posters and boxing up most of his music, book, etc... Supposedly, this was because he wouldn't respect his stepmom's request to take down a couple of posters. Things so escalated and they stopped giving him an allowance, grounded him, made him go to some stupid church camp that his stepmom was involve in, and finally late in the summer he actually got physical. His stepmom got drunk one night at a bar-b-que and kept making bitchy comments and Steven finally blew up and called her a stupid slut, or the equivilant of that... His dad actually hit him a couple of times and had to be pulled off of him. Steven ran away two night later. I don't think his dad or stepmom even told anyone or made a police report for almost a week after he left. It didn't just split Steven and his father up, it damaged his dad and stepmom's relationship with most of the rest of the family, at least the part that really counted. His dad and stepmom are still together, but even all these years later no one in the family has really ever forgiven or forgotten what happened. When both of Steven's grandparents died, they totally cut their son out of their will except for small token amounts; he contested both wills but lost both time. It wasn't just the money that his falling out with Steven cost him, it was the respect of the rest of the family. Clifford, Steven's dad, had always seemed to be really level headed but it was like that summer he lost his mind and couldn't or wouldn't see anyone elses point of view. The fact that Steven tried a couple of times to repair the damage only to be rebuffed sealed everyones feeling on the matter. I don't think that anyone thought Steven was completely innocent in all of the actions that summer, he never got along with Janabeth, his stepmom, and everyone really knew that. But Clifford and Janabeth went so far out of all bounds of reason and just continued to escalate the situation until they alienated everyone. It was like once they started down that trail, they couldn't or wouldn't turn back from it.

 

Steven and his dad always had a tight relationship up until that summer, but to this day I don't believe either would piss on the other to put them out if they were on fire... It might be easy for some to forgive but for other that is just one step to far...

 

Thanks for sharing that. Not only was it interesting, it hit on some of the things I was trying to raise here. I think that if Will and his parents are that pig-headed and stubborn, a rift like you describe is entirely possible. I do think, though, that they would ultimately reach an epiphany before it got as bad as things did with your family, at least over the long haul.

 

I so agree - Mark, I dread to think where you found the role model on which to base what can only be described as two of the most stupid parents I have ever come across. I think what left me utterly speechless was the introduction of a marine who is a child psychologist; are they just trying to see how far they can push him? Brad and Robbie are not old, so if they lose a son they will have a long time to repent their actions.

 

Well written - I don't usually get so worked up about fictional characters in fictional situations!

 

I think that it helps to think of this as a massive power struggle. In that regard, Brad and Robbie are probably completely clouded by the need to bring Will into line. They're probably thinking that he's turning into a college student at 14 (with the drinking on the trip, and at Stanford), and that in order to prevent him from totally becoming a burnout, they have to snap him into shape. So where did I learn to channel these people who lose sight of what's important? Well, I've written Will to be a lot more responsibly than my own son, and I've written Brad and Robbie to be a lot worse than I was, but I actually lived something like this, although I didn't hire a marine. That's the big point of departure here, but it makes the story more fun. :-)

 

I'm actually not hoping that there's something big going on that's got their attention that we don't yet know about. For that to be the case, would make the drama set-up of this story seem so much larger than would the premise of examining father-son relationships. I feel like...if it's just Brad and Robbie failing, really really badly at this, that brings the father-son point home. But if it's the something mysterious going on, that brings the "oh, it's a drama!" point home. Quite honestly, for it to be the latter would leave a very bad taste in my mouth. Why? Because since it would reinforce the drama aspect, it would at the same time make the father-son premise look less like the heart of this story, and more like a device to merely fuel the story drama.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure how I would even tie that together, with some big overall dramatic purpose.

 

It did for me, too.

 

When someone's the "favored" child, like Will was/is, there's a little bit of satisfaction in seeing them fall/fail at something. Will was clearly the golden kid at Malibu, and it looks like things are heading that here at HW, so I can't help but think that annoys JJ just a bit. Not to the point where JJ is deathly jealous of Will(I don't think they're Cal and Aron from East of Eden), but there's going to be a little bit of a grin when the Golden Boy falls off his pedestal.

 

I can see that as well. I do think that JJ could have done a better job with it, though. He could have enjoyed it a little more subtly.

[methodwriter85]

I can see that as well. I do think that JJ could have done a better job with it, though. He could have enjoyed it a little more subtly.

 

I don't think "subtle" is in JJ's vocab.

[PrivateTim]

My thoughts that I somewhat touched on in my review.

 

I find Ryan's reaction interesting. In my experience most straight guys are more freaked out by kissing a gay guy (or straight) than being sucked by, fucking or even sucking themselves. Kissing is more intimate than just recreational sex. I know he'll come around though and when Ryan gets shit for Will not being in school a few days from his peers, he'll come around even faster.

 

Raine could be preggers (the story is called "Paternity" after all), but no parent of a 14/15 year old at Harvard-Westlake is going to let their daughter have a baby. Even if her father was president of Pro-Life L.A. you'd be surprised at how views change when it is personal, not theoretical.

 

As to Will and his fathers, that little scene in the study and the resulting new bodyguard, etc wouldn't have even been skirmish in the battle I had with my father for two years in high school. One of the major problems I think is that Brad and Robbie have no moral authority when it comes to their kids. They know their parents smoke bud so that undermines their "respect my authoriah!" (or any authority) posturing. They know Brad was rowdy and drank in high school and I don't recall Brad ever having a conversation with Will about why it was BAD that he drank in high school, that it led to his Uncle Billy's death and that Brad now regretted some of the things he did in high school looking back from an adult standpoint. I knew my father had been a bit of a wild man when he was younger (knowing his friends from that age and hearing their stories), but when he sat me down (the day after I came home drunk from my first high school party my freshman year) and told me he had made mistakes, he didn't want me to make the same mistakes and that getting busted by the police or sheriffs department could take away everything I valued at that time (playing HS sports, future college admissions, especially Annapolis, respect of my grandparents and more), I listened because he acknowledged his mistakes back then AND I had never seen him doing anything illegal or shady; no drugs, no drunk driving, no cutting corners in business, not murdering people even if they deserved it etc. He had moral authority even if I was pissed at him for a couple of years, I still had respect for him and his moral authority. His deeds followed his word and I noticed.

 

Expanding on the battles between fathers and sons, I think it depends on what the relationship was like before they entered the high school years, what else is happening with the kid and what the home is like in general. My father and I were close before the war started and closer when it ended. I wasn't a rebellious kid, I was a straight A honor student, three sport letterman, active in school government, active in my church youth group and popular in my peer group. I am not sure what precipitated the rough two years with my father (end of 9th grade to end of 11th) other than maybe my growing up, being too smart for my own good, my youthful arrogance and stubbornness. I am not sure what brought the feud to an end, whether it was my mother's intervention, my grandparents, my maturing a bit (just a bit), all of the above or what, but that summer between my jr and sr years was good and so was my senior year. The big break through came on that first trip back from college for Thanksgiving. I had been away at school since early August by that point and I had grown up a lot in that four month period and realized how much my family meant to me and I think that separation did the same thing for them. Even though I'd seen them in that four month period because they came to more than a few of my water polo games, it was different being back in my old room and old house. It made me see the house as more than that and made me appreciate the distinctions between a house and a home. I am confident Will and Brad will get there too.

[naaz]

A well-written chapter, which makes the interval till the next one seem like the lifetime of Methuselah! If the next one is narrated by Wade, it will just be icing on the cake!

I wish Ryan had behaved like less-of-an-asshole, after all, Will got into the soup to save him,,,a little gratitude wouldn't have been amiss. I know he is freaked out right at the moment and will come round, still.

The parents' reaction does not come as a total shock, but that does not make it fair. Will must be feeling pretty indignant that he was not even asked what HAD happened.........they're doling out punishments rather freely, in light of the fact that the offence they assumed he committed wasn't his......and giving him the clear message that they did not trust him. Seeing that he was already smarting from their inattentive behaviour, this only smears a generous amount of insult to that injury. No wonder he reacted accordingly, and the steps Brad & Robbie are taking to show him his place as they think may seem ridiculous to us, but they are sure to be hits below the belt to a 14 year old.

It seems that Robbie bites a lot when someone shows him to be in fault; he seemed to get Will's take on things before- but after Will snapped at him he's supporting Brad unequivocally. Seems nails and hammers will be required to put some common sense into them.

I'd like to know, soon, what happens next.

By the way, it says on the story note that there might be a third narrator of the story. I'm curious to know if that is going to happen.

And I will be sorry if Will loses some credits over this suspension.

And, lastly, there seems to be no point in praising Mark Arbour's penmanship (or rather, keyboardmanship?) with a lot of adjectives. It's effects are strewn all over this forum. We readers are actually thinking about characters as real persons among us and trying to imagine what will happen next, writing lengthy and emotional reviews. Just calling his characters realistic and vivid; his writing style gripping and wonderful- seems somewhat inadequate. He is a master.

Cheerio!

 

(It calls for constant vigilance to use the word 'will' in any post regarding Paternity)

Edited April 21, 2012 by naaz

[methodwriter85]

Raine could be preggers (the story is called "Paternity" after all), but no parent of a 14/15 year old at Harvard-Westlake is going to let their daughter have a baby. Even if her father was president of Pro-Life L.A. you'd be surprised at how views change when it is personal, not theoretical.

I don't think conservative pro-lifers would name their daughter Raine, raise her to be comfortable around gay guys at a young age, or let her go on the pill at the age of 14. I kind of picture Raine as having parents who were once trusterfarians in the 1960's and 1970's, then settled down into an affluent(yet environmentally sustainable) domestic life partnership before actually getting married in the '90's, with Raine as their flower girl. I had an aquaintance in high school who's parents named her Ruby Tuesday Rock n Roll...you can guess what her parents were like.

 

And you're right, Brad and Robbie have no moral authority whatsoever. Kids are pretty tuned into what their parents are like, and they'll recognize hypocrisy when they see it. I can't see Brad or Robbie ever realistically trying to disclipline Will and JJ. JJ would flat-out walk out the door if they even tried.

[MJ85]

I find Ryan's reaction interesting. In my experience most straight guys are more freaked out by kissing a gay guy (or straight) than being sucked by, fucking or even sucking themselves.

 

Unless...

[Daddydavek]

Unless...

 

Yeah, unless he liked it all too much and is now very uncomfortable with a dawning realization about his own sexual orientation....

[B1ue]

I don't think conservative pro-lifers would name their daughter Raine, raise her to be comfortable around gay guys at a young age, or let her go on the pill at the age of 14. I kind of picture Raine as having parents who were once trusterfarians in the 1960's and 1970's, then settled down into an affluent(yet environmentally sustainable) domestic life partnership before actually getting married in the '90's, with Raine as their flower girl. I had an aquaintance in high school who's parents named her Ruby Tuesday Rock n Roll...you can guess what her parents were like.

 

A lot of women, especially young women, are on the pill to control their hormones during their periods. But, yes. And I don't think Tim ever thought her parents were all that conservative.

 

So, I kind of hope that this new guard is actually really good for Will. He could use some counselling, especially resolving the issues between himself and his fathers. And thinking about the former marines I know, and I know a fair few, violence isn't necessarily a part of their personalities. Rigid self-disicpline is. Former and current Marines, allowing for PTSD, are some of the most controlled people I know. So, that inflence, if it rubs off on Will, might be good for him.

 

Of course, I doubt this is what Brad and Robbie had in mind when they hired him, but that might be what they later decide they wanted.

 

As to the punishment itself, I don't think it'll work nearly as well as they hope. That's my perspective showing through though, deprivation punishment never worked well on me. I can lose myself into my own imagintion quite easily, so you have to take away a lot more than my credit card and computer before I start to feel deprived. I don't know if WIll is the same way or not. I do think he's approaching this a lot differently than his parents. Brad and Robbie want to win, whatever that means to them. They seem to want Will to go back to being Brad's clone, except they want a clone of adult Brad, not the teenager he was. Will seems to want his life, and the people in it, to just hold still for five fucking minutes, and he's certainly not going to get that any time soon. I don't know how well I'd react if the biggest source of stability during my teenage years, my parents (who even if they weren't always on my side as I percieved it, at least started out acting the same way they finished), were going through upheavals on their own.

[PrivateTim]

I don't think conservative pro-lifers would name their daughter Raine, raise her to be comfortable around gay guys at a young age, or let her go on the pill at the age of 14. I kind of picture Raine as having parents who were once trusterfarians in the 1960's and 1970's, then settled down into an affluent(yet environmentally sustainable) domestic life partnership before actually getting married in the '90's, with Raine as their flower girl. I had an aquaintance in high school who's parents named her Ruby Tuesday Rock n Roll...you can guess what her parents were like.

But if her parents were hippy dippys who got (or were already) affluence Raine would be at Crossroads or Oakwood, not the ultimate establishment school in L.A.

[rjo]

Chapter 29 and 30 were wonderful until the end of chapter 30. Robbie and Brads reaction to Will's flask were over the top. Maybe that article about Brad being a saint has gone to his head. Both Robbie and Brad have killed people of had people killed. Both Robbie and Brad have used illegal drugs and drank a lot in high school. Robbie and Brad both were sluts with many different people in high school. The only thing that they not guilty of the mouthing off to their parents. That is true of Robbie but not of Brad. Robbie and Brad ran away twice. As JP said Brad was the hardest to raise. I hope Will runs away. Maybe to Santa Cruz or Paly. I wonder how long it would take Robbie and Brad he was gone. When they finally find him explain to the family why he felt he had to run and why it take so long. Maybe at dinner at Escorial.

[methodwriter85]

But if her parents were hippy dippys who got (or were already) affluence Raine would be at Crossroads or Oakwood, not the ultimate establishment school in L.A.

 

See, that's why I called them "trustafarians", not hippy dippys, because I figured they were both rich kids who got swept up into the Berkeley Movement of the 1960's and 1970's and played around with hippie commune lifestyles, but then went back into the establishment while still retaining some of those deals, kind of like Kirsten on the O.C. or Jake and Helen Morgendorfer on Daria. The dad was an alum of Harvard School for Boys back in the late 60's, and Raine picked the school based on that.

 

If Harvard-Westlake came off as a really conservative school, I could see hippie-dippie parents not being into it, but the school seems to be on the liberal side and I think they'd be swayed by the social responsibility programs like Squid and the like. I mean, I know kids who went to really top-notch "establishment" schools and their parents were obviously hippie dippie types at one point in their life. Would it be more likely they'd send their kid to one of those schools were kids are allowed to chose their own curriculum in an attempt to teach them to be their own person? Perhaps, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, particularly if one of the parents were alums.

 

If anything, HW sounded way too liberal for someone like Ryan's dad to want to send their kid there, but we assumed that the wife really pushed for it to try and get Ryan an "in" with the creme de la creme of L.A. society, which did work.

 

Julian, do you want to weigh in on this? I just don't think it's THAT out there for someone to have extremely liberal and free-love type parents and go to a school like HW, given the impression I've got of the school. I've had friends who've gone to a top-notch charter school who had parents like that, and this IS Generation Y, with Baby Boomer parents, so you kind of figure there have to be some former hippie parents mixed in there with these schools. All schools have parents that don't quite fit the profile of the school- my high school was about as liberal and gay-loving as you can get, and we had parents who were conservative types who still sent their kids there because they knew that Cab Calloway was still a pretty decent high school, especially compared to places like Glasgow or McKean. *shudders*

Edited April 22, 2012 by methodwriter85