9.11

[PrivateTim]

I think that Tony has really strong feelings for Will, he's just fucked up.  Going back to Paternity, I think that Jeff could definitely fit into that slot, as could Ryan.  Will went through that phase where he fell in love with every guy he was with (Poor Man's Son).  I'll bet he's pretty gun shy now, and he's keeping relationships largely off the table. 

 

Well you are the author so you better than anyone should know, but I don't believe he has really strong feelings for Will, I think he THINKS he has really strong feelings for Will, but no one who has really strong feelings for someone would have treated Will the way he did the last few days they were together. You invite someone to visit you, you don't blow them off so badly.

 

 

This is one of the few times I've been irritated at Will. "I guess this means I'm gay." "Yep!"

 

No kid. It means he liked gay sex. I'm not arguing that the diagnosis was wrong, but he's basing it off the wrong symptoms.

 

Edit: Further, I'm worried that Mason came to that conclusion after he bottomed, because he might buy into the idea that tops can be straight, but anyone who bottoms, even once, is gay. And quite frankly, Will should know better.

 

I'm almost hoping that Mason was just using him for his connection to Brad, and thus the defense industry. That's how annoyed I am.

 

I guess I am confused why you are mad at Will, maybe you didn't read the passage correctly.

 

  “I guess this means I’m gay,” he said, although I think he’d already figured that out, despite what he’d told me the first time we’d jacked off together.

 

  “Yeah, pretty much,” I said, trying to laugh it off.  “I’m glad you are.”

 

I don't think Mason was looking to have Will tell him he was gay, it was more of a rhetorical statement by Mason, it wasn't really a question and as Will mused, "he'd already figured it out".

 

And the Will didn't say, "yes, you most definitely are", he said, "yeah, pretty much" a fairly non-commital statement.

 

Mason isn't confused about his sexual orientation and never really was. He'd already bottomed before, Rachel was his attempt at conformity, but it wasn't really him all along as Will acknowledged when he thought, "although I think he'd already figured that out."

 

I like Mason because he seems genuine and hope he gets to stay that way.

[Miles Long]

Well you are the author so you better than anyone should know, but I don't believe he has really strong feelings for Will, I think he THINKS he has really strong feelings for Will, but no one who has really strong feelings for someone would have treated Will the way he did the last few days they were together. You invite someone to visit you, you don't blow them off so badly.

 

 

 

I guess I am confused why you are mad at Will, maybe you didn't read the passage correctly.

 

 

I don't think Mason was looking to have Will tell him he was gay, it was more of a rhetorical statement by Mason, it wasn't really a question and as Will mused, "he'd already figured it out".

 

And the Will didn't say, "yes, you most definitely are", he said, "yeah, pretty much" a fairly non-commital statement.

 

Mason isn't confused about his sexual orientation and never really was. He'd already bottomed before, Rachel was his attempt at conformity, but it wasn't really him all along as Will acknowledged when he thought, "although I think he'd already figured that out."

 

I like Mason because he seems genuine and hope he gets to stay that way.

 

I second that, all of it.

[MJ85]

This is one of the few times I've been irritated at Will. "I guess this means I'm gay." "Yep!"

 

No kid. It means he liked gay sex. I'm not arguing that the diagnosis was wrong, but he's basing it off the wrong symptoms.

 

Edit: Further, I'm worried that Mason came to that conclusion after he bottomed, because he might buy into the idea that tops can be straight, but anyone who bottoms, even once, is gay. And quite frankly, Will should know better.

 

I'm almost hoping that Mason was just using him for his connection to Brad, and thus the defense industry. That's how annoyed I am.

Rhetorical or not, I don't think that Will was really in a mood to give a damn about things like this anyway.

 

I like to think of this chapter as Will being in "tantrum" mode, whereby rather than just throwing down a flat-out tantrum in one hot instant, we'll see several little things like we saw here. The flat-out tantrums, instead, get saved for special occasions - just ask Brad's wardrobe.

[methodwriter85]

    Mason seems like he's kind of where Matt Carrsworld was in Bloodlines- knowing he's pretty much gay (or close to it), but also being from a family where it's not acceptable because white-collar kids from upper-class families are expected to get trophy wives and continue the good family line.

 

Well you are the author so you better than anyone should know, but I don't believe he has really strong feelings for Will, I think he THINKS he has really strong feelings for Will, but no one who has really strong feelings for someone would have treated Will the way he did the last few days they were together. You invite someone to visit you, you don't blow them off so badly.

 

     My guess is that we're supposed to see Tony in a similiar way we see Robbie- someone who's massively fucked up in how he treats people he's supposed to care about, but who we forgive because we know deep down there's a good heart there.

[Mark Arbour]

 

“I guess this means I’m gay,” he said, although I think he’d already figured that out, despite what he’d told me the first time we’d jacked off together.

 

  “Yeah, pretty much,” I said, trying to laugh it off.  “I’m glad you are.”

 

 

I didn't intend this to be a major admission/moment for Mason, I saw it as a casual, after-sex comment.  And I think that in the vernacular of his age demographic (14-19 year olds), they "yeah, pretty much" was significant agreement. 

 

 

 

Well you are the author so you better than anyone should know, but I don't believe he has really strong feelings for Will, I think he THINKS he has really strong feelings for Will, but no one who has really strong feelings for someone would have treated Will the way he did the last few days they were together. You invite someone to visit you, you don't blow them off so badly.

 

 

 

I usually preface comments with qualifiers, because I don't view these characters as being set in stone.  They can evolve, and sometimes even I haven't figured out what's going on in their minds.

 

 

Mason isn't confused about his sexual orientation and never really was. He'd already bottomed before, Rachel was his attempt at conformity, but it wasn't really him all along as Will acknowledged when he thought, "although I think he'd already figured that out."

 

I see Mason like that as well, as a guy who knows he's gay but isn't ready to come out yet. 

[B1ue]

I don't think Mason was looking to have Will tell him he was gay, it was more of a rhetorical statement by Mason, it wasn't really a question and as Will mused, "he'd already figured it out".

 

And the Will didn't say, "yes, you most definitely are", he said, "yeah, pretty much" a fairly non-commital statement.

 

No, I didn't misread it, though I take your point. I suppose it's due to the limitations of the medium. "Yeah," can be a non-committal answer, but it can be firmer. All depends on tone and context, and without the tone of both Will and Mason's statements, we're left to our imaginations. Clearly, I'm imagining the scene somewhat differently than you, but that doesn't mean I'm imagining it correctly, or as the author intended.

 

In any case, any kind of positive response would have irritated me. Even if Will's only response was to laugh at the joke Mason (and Mark) intended it to be. But it's a personal irritation, so I'll let it go.

 

I still hope Mason is trying to doublecross Will. He's had his share of idiot boyfriends. I'd like to see him deal with someone devious. Bonus points if Will and Brad realize what he's up to, and still give him an internship or whatever, because he's actually a good candidate on his own merits.

[MJ85]

I still hope Mason is trying to doublecross Will. He's had his share of idiot boyfriends. I'd like to see him deal with someone devious. Bonus points if Will and Brad realize what he's up to, and still give him an internship or whatever, because he's actually a good candidate on his own merits.

Ah...to what end? It's not like Will needed much coaxing to get away from Tony. For that matter, it's not like we'll end up seeing much more of Mason in any case, not unless either he gets transplanted to California, or at least someone in the family gets transplanted to Missouri, over the long-term. So...even if he could attempt a doublecross and wanted to, how would he be able to pull anything off?

 

Besides which, hasn't Will had to deal with enough shady characters who reside out in Arbour Land? I'll agree that Will having to deal with a double-crosser would be interesting, but Mason...doesn't seem like an ideal candidate for it.

[methodwriter85]

    I agree that Mason isn't really an ideal candidate to do it, unless he winds up transferring colleges.

 

    I really thought Shane Jackson was going to turn out to be using Will in order to sabotage JJ, but it didn't exactly turn out that way.

 

    Other than the obvious reasons, it's a shame that Shane died. He was going to grow up to look like this:

 

 

     Anyway, I wonder if Mark's going to give JJ a new fictional big rival to play off against or if we're waiting for when Johnny Weir, Evan Lysacek, and JJ are vying for titles as senior skaters. Hmm.

Edited June 14, 2013 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

Well, I am not ready to write Tony off quite yet; although I do think he needs to spend some considerable time on a comfortable couch with someone truly objective to his situation...  Tony is very much a product of his past and is having a harder than usual time figuring out who he is, what he wants, and where he is going in life.  I agree that Will can and probably will stay involved with Tony to some degree but he won't put up with being anyone's doormat.

 

Not sure that I see Mason as someone that will be around for more than this story; he does strike me as interesting but his and Will's interaction was in that brief period of meeting and first impressions where it is very easy to cover up any problems with smiles and sunshine.  Will has so many people already in his sphere of influence that I am not sure there is room for another majore player. 

 

While I don't think Will handled the situation in the last chapter appropriately at all; I do think he did better at stepping back and deciding to do something that he wanted just because he wanted to.  He went with Mason because it was light and fun and no drama allowed.  Will needs to start making a decision about why he gets involved with someone of the men/boys that he does.  Some of the choices make me really question his ability to think farther than the next sex act...

[Mark Arbour]

 Some of the choices make me really question his ability to think farther than the next sex act...

 

He's got the libido of a 17 year old.  That's pretty much the definition of a handsome male between 17-19:  worry about the next sex act.

[methodwriter85]

He's got the libido of a 17 year old.  That's pretty much the definition of a handsome male between 17-19:  worry about the next sex act.

 

After having friends who were good-looking, that's been my general observation as well. Good looks don't necessarily mean happiness, but they do mean eager sex partners.

 

It doesn't really change until guys hit about 24, 25.

Edited June 14, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Miles Long]

He's got the libido of a 17 year old.  That's pretty much the definition of a handsome male between 17-19:  worry about the next sex act.

 

Although I agree and expand it to all males handsome or not; I feel compelled to point out most 17-19 year olds are still under the care/guidance/rule of law of their parents legally or at least financially.  Will's emancipation has him in a precarious situation and making careless or perceived irresponsible sexual decisions can be used against him if either of his parents tried to revisit the issue.  I don't necessarily see that happening but as JP pointed out to him, because of his status, his behavior is going to be held at higher standard than that of his cousins.  It's not only about being calm during dinner at Escorial, it's about whether or not he can truly manage his affairs better than his parents.

 

Also emancipated or not at 14 he is still SUPER jailbait.

 

Whew glad to get that off my chest.

[Mark Arbour]

 

Although I agree and expand it to all males handsome or not; I feel compelled to point out most 17-19 year olds are still under the care/guidance/rule of law of their parents legally or at least financially.  Will's emancipation has him in a precarious situation and making careless or perceived irresponsible sexual decisions can be used against him if either of his parents tried to revisit the issue.  I don't necessarily see that happening but as JP pointed out to him, because of his status, his behavior is going to be held at higher standard than that of his cousins.  It's not only about being calm during dinner at Escorial, it's about whether or not he can truly manage his affairs better than his parents.

 

 

 

That would be an interesting hearing, if Jeanine tried to get his emancipation revoked.  There would probably be some interesting things to discuss.  I wonder if Stef's behavior would factor in as an influence on Will's behavior.  I wonder if it would matter if his fathers have a dungeon in their bedroom. 

 

 

 

 

Also emancipated or not at 14 he is still SUPER jailbait.

 

Whew glad to get that off my chest.

 

Super jailbait. 

[methodwriter85]

    I loved the mentions of N'Sync, the Harry Potter movie cast, and Josh Hartnett. Josh Hartnett was soooo hyped in '01, same as Jude Law. Jude Law didn't really deliver though he's worked steadily, while Josh seemingly dropped off the face of the earth after 2002.

 

     I kind of thought that buying an entire house for a single teenaged guy was a bit ridiculous, but then again, the rich are different from you and me. It's not like Will's going to piss away his trust fund on stupid stuff- two million for even an unfinished house in Hawaii with a view seems ridiculously cheap. According to good ol' Wiki, Maui got hit with a big housing boom until about 2007, so the home value will probably double or triple in a rather short time.

 

    As for the other stuff, I loved the thought that 15-year old JJ had to be verbally dragged kicking and screaming into going to the Bastille Day party. That's my boy. LOL. I'm kind of shocked though that JJ isn't a big N'Sync fan- maybe he's more Backstreet Boys? (I once got slammed into a locker by a senior boy for saying N'Sync sucks. LOL.) He grew up around too many girls in skating for him not to have picked up on the boyband thing.

Edited June 20, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

    I loved the mentions of N'Sync, the Harry Potter movie cast, and Josh Hartnett. Josh Hartnett was soooo hyped in '01, same as Jude Law. Jude Law didn't really deliver though he's worked steadily, while Josh seemingly dropped off the face of the earth after 2002.

 

     I kind of thought that buying an entire house for a single teenaged guy was a bit ridiculous, but then again, the rich are different from you and me. It's not like Will's going to piss away his trust fund on stupid stuff- two million for even an unfinished house in Hawaii with a view seems ridiculously cheap. According to good ol' Wiki, Maui got hit with a big housing boom until about 2007, so the home value will probably double or triple in a rather short time.

 

    As for the other stuff, I loved the thought that 15-year old JJ had to be verbally dragged kicking and screaming into going to the Bastille Day party. That's my boy. LOL. I'm kind of shocked though that JJ isn't a big N'Sync fan- maybe he's more Backstreet Boys? (I once got slammed into a locker by a senior boy for saying N'Sync sucks. LOL.) He grew up around too many girls in skating for him not to have picked up on the boyband thing.

 

Actually, he's doing what many of us do.   He's depressed and bummed about missing the party, so he spends money to make himself feel better, among other things.  

[sat8997]

And it's not so much that Will bought a house, it's that he now is closest to what soothes him...the ocean. Surfing is Will's passion (yeah - I know it seems like number one would be sex), and what better way to indulge that passion than to have the beach literally just outside the door. For Will, if the easiest way to achieve that is to buy a house, then that makes perfect sense.  

[Mark Arbour]

And it's not so much that Will bought a house, it's that he now is closest to what soothes him...the ocean. Surfing is Will's passion (yeah - I know it seems like number one would be sex), and what better way to indulge that passion than to have the beach literally just outside the door. For Will, if the easiest way to achieve that is to buy a house, then that makes perfect sense.  

 

That makes sense.  Will has a rather logical way of solving problems.  I could see him doing that, thinking of it in those terms, as opposed to other members of the family, who will see it as Will making a $2million investment without consulting them. 

[centexhairysub]

Okay, I don't even know where to start with this chapter, so here it goes....

 

I can't believe that JP hasn't made a move to broker some type of peace betweent he warring parties.  I mean I understand him staying out of Stef's way with the party planning but I expected him to have seat down with those involved and tried to move things forward.  Maybe he is waiting for after the party, but the longer a wound festers the harder to clear it becomes.  I was thinking he was letting everyone marinate on what the problem was; but everyone seems solely focused on how it impacted them, not everyone else.  I do think that Nana's statement may impact Claire, plus I think Jack is starting to turn the corner... 

 

I that Sharon is right on the money as always.  I don't think Will is looking at the purchase of the house as anything other than bringing him closer to the one thing that centers him more than anything else, the ocean...  He just has the ability to do it with more style than most others.  I don't think Will buying the house is a message to anyone; although I can see it being one to others in their own mind.  Plus, you know Stef will the the interior proud...

 

Will and Scott are doing a dance that is gonna lead to something neither of them may really be ready for.  Will has never been with someone like Scott and Scott has never done anything this dangerous.  I don't know if they will really ever end up in bed together; a very bad idea but the ramifications will be interesting to see.  Okay, I can even think of one or two reasons it wouldn't be so bad but that is on a totally different level of thinking...  Brad will either be blind with fury or jealousy and I have to wonder which...

[PrivateTim]

 

I can't believe that JP hasn't made a move to broker some type of peace betweent he warring parties.  I mean I understand him staying out of Stef's way with the party planning but I expected him to have seat down with those involved and tried to move things forward.  Maybe he is waiting for after the party, but the longer a wound festers the harder to clear it becomes.  I was thinking he was letting everyone marinate on what the problem was; but everyone seems solely focused on how it impacted them, not everyone else.  I do think that Nana's statement may impact Claire, plus I think Jack is starting to turn the corner... 

 

I that Sharon is right on the money as always.  I don't think Will is looking at the purchase of the house as anything other than bringing him closer to the one thing that centers him more than anything else, the ocean...  He just has the ability to do it with more style than most others.  I don't think Will buying the house is a message to anyone; although I can see it being one to others in their own mind.  Plus, you know Stef will the the interior proud...

 

Will and Scott are doing a dance that is gonna lead to something neither of them may really be ready for.  Will has never been with someone like Scott and Scott has never done anything this dangerous.  I don't know if they will really ever end up in bed together; a very bad idea but the ramifications will be interesting to see.  Okay, I can even think of one or two reasons it wouldn't be so bad but that is on a totally different level of thinking...  Brad will either be blind with fury or jealousy and I have to wonder which...

 

JP shouldn't have to do anything. I am shocked that Claire & Isidore have not come to their senses and in the cold light of day reflcted on their behaviors and seen how badly they have treated a family member and a young one to boot. Claire especially (with Jack's help) now that she sees that Marie has lied to her and mislead her should have had an epiphany. But then I guess that would be too easy.

 

I don't read anything into Will buying a Maui house other than he wants to be close to the best surfing he can and he can afford it. In a bit of poetic liscense Mr. Arbour has swells at Ho'okipa in the summer, but it is really a winter break. The better surf in summer will actually be at Honolua Bay right next to the Kapalua condo.

 

Will and Scott is just too creepy to think about, not because of the age difference but because of the relationship between Scott and Brad. It would be wrong on so many levels to have sex with a friend from high school's son or daughter.

[Mark Arbour]

Okay, I don't even know where to start with this chapter, so here it goes....

 

I can't believe that JP hasn't made a move to broker some type of peace betweent he warring parties.  I mean I understand him staying out of Stef's way with the party planning but I expected him to have seat down with those involved and tried to move things forward.  Maybe he is waiting for after the party, but the longer a wound festers the harder to clear it becomes.  I was thinking he was letting everyone marinate on what the problem was; but everyone seems solely focused on how it impacted them, not everyone else.  I do think that Nana's statement may impact Claire, plus I think Jack is starting to turn the corner... 

 

 

I think that JP probably feels that he's made his points quite clearly, and he knows that merely reiterating the same argument to these people is not really going to impact them, so he's going to outlast them, and force them to come to him.  In a sense, this is the only way it makes sense for him, in that he'll see the need for victory (helping get Marie back on track).  I think he also knows that until the party is over, Isidore and Claire are unlikely to be real receptive to introspective thoughts...they'll just be too pissed off. 

 

 

 

I that Sharon is right on the money as always.  I don't think Will is looking at the purchase of the house as anything other than bringing him closer to the one thing that centers him more than anything else, the ocean...  He just has the ability to do it with more style than most others.  I don't think Will buying the house is a message to anyone; although I can see it being one to others in their own mind.  Plus, you know Stef will the the interior proud...

 

 

 

 

There are multiple issues at play here in Will's psyche, and this is surely one of them, the sheer logic of the thing.  I think there are other factors as well, and I can't help but think that he's having a teenage regression moment where he evilly derives some satisfaction for totally freaking out his father.

 

 

 

 

I don't read anything into Will buying a Maui house other than he wants to be close to the best surfing he can and he can afford it. In a bit of poetic liscense Mr. Arbour has swells at Ho'okipa in the summer, but it is really a winter break. The better surf in summer will actually be at Honolua Bay right next to the Kapalua condo.

 

You are correct, but as you said, I took some poetic license, because Honolua Bay is a good alternative.  Besides, sometimes they get lucky in the Paia area. 

 

Will and Scott is just too creepy to think about, not because of the age difference but because of the relationship between Scott and Brad. It would be wrong on so many levels to have sex with a friend from high school's son or daughter.

 

Creepy never stopped Scott Slater.

[Mark Arbour]

Alright, I'd like to pose a question to those of you reading this forum.  Actually, two of them.

 

1.  Should Will sleep with Scott Slater?

2.  If Will does sleep with him, how would Brad react? 

[Mari]

Yes! They should sleep together. Its the perfect opportunity right now since they are alone. I think maybe Brad should catch then after the act. I'm sure he would be furious beyond words. Not because he's jealous but because of the age difference. Besides the creep out factor is in play. Sleeping with your best friend from high schools kid??? Wow.

[Westie]

Alright, I'd like to pose a question to those of you reading this forum.  Actually, two of them.

 

1.  Should Will sleep with Scott Slater?

2.  If Will does sleep with him, how would Brad react? 

 

No.

 

It's too creepy.  Definitely not.  This is the kind of line in the sand that would make me very uncomfortable reading the story

Edited June 22, 2013 by Westie

[sat8997]

Alright, I'd like to pose a question to those of you reading this forum.  Actually, two of them.

 

1.  Should Will sleep with Scott Slater?

2.  If Will does sleep with him, how would Brad react? 

 

1. At Will's age now - no. There's a creep factor with Scott that, in some cases, shouldn't be crossed. Ask me again when Will's nineteen or twenty.

 

2. Brad would be furious with Scott, violently so I think, overall hurt by the two of them, and disappointed in Will. I think the various relationships between the three could be ruined.

 

I don't think the five second skeezy f*ck factor is worth it in the long run.

[PrivateTim]

1.  Should Will sleep with Scott Slater?

2.  If Will does sleep with him, how would Brad react? 

 

I could be wrong, but I assume you have a rough idea of where the story is going, both 9-11 and CAP in general. If Will sleeping with Scott helped get the story to where it is going, then it would be okay. But if not it just becomes gratuitious and a distraction from the from the story.

 

I think Brad's reaction would be to kill Scott if he found them in the act.

 

For Scott to sleep with the 14 year old son or daughter of someone from high school that he had sex with would be beyond creepy, it would be pathological.

Edited June 22, 2013 by PrivateTim