9.11

[mmike1969]

Maybe Kai is tutoring someone or is being tutored himself in something.

 

And no I don't mean sex.

Edited July 13, 2013 by mmike1969

[methodwriter85]

He's going to tail Kai, isn't he?

 

Maybe he'll just hire a private detective. But, no, he'll do it himself, if the thought occurs to him at all.

 

If he does, that'd be a rather hilarious call-back to Brad's tailing of Robbie in Man In Motion. Ultimately, I don't think Will would- that would violate his "live and let live" attitude.

 

I thought it was kind of weird that someone who grew up a coastal area wouldn't be big into seafood. I grew up in the Chesapeake Bay/Delaware Bay area and there's a major focus on seafood here(especially with crabs) that I noticed wasn't really around in the Western P.A. area. (Which isn't a costal area.) But then I saw Will's earlier comment that it's a karma thing, which I liked. What a fantastic little character quirk. Mark's gotten better at adding little touches like that.

 

Finally, I love that Tony's issues go beyond just not wanting to be gay. As Will's realizing, even if Tony were openly gay, he'd still be a shitty boyfriend who'd feel a need to have a mistress on the side. That's the ugly side of the Italian machismo that Will finds so hot.

 

It also makes me think that Jake was sooooo not the first secret mistress that Sam had.

Edited July 13, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

It also makes me think that Jake was sooooo not the first secret mistress that Sam had.

 

And probably not the only one, either.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Mark Arbour

[methodwriter85]

   Which would actually make a lot of sense, because Sam in 1968 came off as such a fine, upstanding guy. It seemed like JP blamed Sam's transformation in Be Rad to the fact that he failed to get tenture, but it's entirely possible that Sam cheated on JP all throughout the 1970's. It's possible that he only got caught because Sam started checking out his stepson's friends instead of people outside of the inner circle.

 

 

I wrote that scene with the two e-mails, laughing at myself and how many times I'd sent off a scathing response to someone only to regret it a few hours later!

 

     You? A scathing response to someone? Wow, I really can't imagine it.

 

 

I think that Will would probably subconsciously avoid finding a soul mate at this point. He's at the point where he knows how impractical that was, but he's emotional enough to realize that if he did find that person, he'd probably fall hook, line, and sinker

 

      That reminds me a lot about the storyline in Cross-Currents, where Andy sleeps his way through the girls of his high school while not committing to anybody, because on some level he got burned deep by his first girlfriend, Stacey. He knows how he gets when he's really attached to someone, so he tries to avoid it. I think Will is similiar to Andy in that sense.

Edited July 13, 2013 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

I don't find it weird at all that Will is bursting with curiosity over Kai's secret, that is just human nature. But if were something as simple as tutoring someone I think Kai would not be mysterious about what he is doing. We will see as a measure of Will's maturity in how long he holds off on pressing Kai for details.

I also think people are being way, way too understanding over Tony. I think he deserves a swift kick in the balls, but then his behavior and attitude aren't anything that I didn't predict when they were in Italy and Tony was getting all romantic and burst out with his declaration of love for Will. I knew it wouldn't last once they were back in the U.S. and Tony was back in his routine. I'd have left it where it was with the first email and let Tony stew in his own juices. All his actions in Italy were nella passione del momento.

I also think we have a new 9-11 potential, a certain 28yo New York investment banker.... 

 

28 and 17 isn't much of a spread for people to be assuming Kai was hustling. 17 and 37 maybe......  but even then, a lot of people don't understand how a 17 year old could legitimately be attracted to a 37 year old. It is a weird bias in the gay community that wants the world to understand how they can be legitimately be attracted to other men. And don't even get me started on potatoes, rice and beans.....

[Mari]

I would like to be a fly on the wall when eventually Stef or Brad asks Will how many men he's been with. I think they have no clue how far Will's sexual reach actually is and jaws would drop. As to an above comment, I think Will already found his 'soul mate' but is way too young to recognize it. Mr. Arbour just hasn't told us who yet.

[methodwriter85]

 

I also think people are being way, way too understanding over Tony. I think he deserves a swift kick in the balls, but then his behavior and attitude aren't anything that I didn't predict when they were in Italy and Tony was getting all romantic and burst out with his declaration of love for Will.

 

     I think it's easier to be understanding over Tony because he's not even really in the story that much. His behavior is obnoxious, but it's not taking over the whole story. And he's got the good-will from being the legacy of a character that a lot of people liked. (Although that really didn't do Marcel any good, did it? LOL.)

 

 

28 and 17 isn't much of a spread for people to be assuming Kai was hustling. 17 and 37 maybe......  but even then, a lot of people don't understand how a 17 year old could legitimately be attracted to a 37 year old. It is a weird bias in the gay community that wants the world to understand how they can be legitimately be attracted to other men.

 

I think 28 seemed older back then. Remember, this is before people started spouting "30 is the new 20!" Although it's probably more of the fact that the investment banker probably overdressed in his suits and the like instead of dressing in t-shirts and shorts, so his age stood out more.

 

Age in the gay community is a weird, weird thing. It's like you're only allowed to exist until you're 30, and if you're over 30, you have to do whatever you can to compensate for that, especially if you don't want to be a Bear or a Daddy. I remember watching this Logo series called "Pretty Hurts", and they showed this guy who was in his early 40's, oohing and ahhing over his face injections that he believed made him look "26 again." I thought that was sad, because I believe wrinkles add a lot of character to a person's face...I can't wait to get my own. I'd rather look in my late 30's than look midl/late 20's.

 

 

I would like to be a fly on the wall when eventually Stef or Brad asks Will how many men he's been with. I think they have no clue how far Will's sexual reach actually is and jaws would drop. As to an above comment, I think Will already found his 'soul mate' but is way too young to recognize it. Mr. Arbour just hasn't told us who yet.

 

      Which would be funny in terms of Stefan. I mean, part of Stefan's whoring around when he was a teenager was out of necessity. Part of it was just that Stefan was a plain slut. I'm pretty sure Stefan's number would have well-exceeded even Will's at that age.

 

     I don't think Mark's decided on a soulmate for Will yet. If Will were more like Matt's age, he might have, but I think he's keeping the options open for Will. Especially if Will winds up narrator for 5 or more stories. It's easy to let a character have a happily-ever-after and ride off into the sunset if you don't plan on building a whole lot of stories around him, but I get the distinct feeling that Will's going to wind up narrating a lot more 2000's(even 2010's) stories.

[Westie]

Age in the gay community is a weird, weird thing. It's like you're only allowed to exist until you're 30, and if you're over 30, you have to do whatever you can to compensate for that, especially if you don't want to be a Bear or a Daddy. I remember watching this Logo series called "Pretty Hurts", and they showed this guy who was in his early 40's, oohing and ahhing over his face injections that he believed made him look "26 again." I thought that was sad, because I believe wrinkles add a lot of character to a person's face...I can't wait to get my own. I'd rather look in my late 30's than look midl/late 20's.

 

 

Quite a broad stroke to paint against the Gay community....

 

Don't forget that the whole community is not just the party scene a la "Queer as Folk".  That's just one facet of a complex theatre.  

[Mark Arbour]

 

     I don't think Mark's decided on a soulmate for Will yet. If Will were more like Matt's age, he might have, but I think he's keeping the options open for Will. Especially if Will winds up narrator for 5 or more stories. It's easy to let a character have a happily-ever-after and ride off into the sunset if you don't plan on building a whole lot of stories around him, but I get the distinct feeling that Will's going to wind up narrating a lot more 2000's(even 2010's) stories.

 

I'm keeping Will's options open because Will is smart enough to do that himself.  He knows that if he gets really involved with one of these wounded beasts he's run into, he's asking for no small amount of emotional pain.  That is convenient from a story perspective as well, but I'm not seeing Will as the next narrator, at least not exclusively.  

[Gene Splicer PHD]

 

Age in the gay community is a weird, weird thing. It's like you're only allowed to exist until you're 30, and if you're over 30, you have to do whatever you can to compensate for that, especially if you don't want to be a Bear or a Daddy. I remember watching this Logo series called "Pretty Hurts", and they showed this guy who was in his early 40's, oohing and ahhing over his face injections that he believed made him look "26 again." I thought that was sad, because I believe wrinkles add a lot of character to a person's face...I can't wait to get my own. I'd rather look in my late 30's than look midl/late 20's.

 

If you are over 30 and you want to continue dating under-30s, yes, you have to compensate. If, on the other hand, you want to date someone your age or a bit older, it's all good. When you're younger you see hitting 30 as "the wall". When you're older, you find it's not really important at all because, well, you're older.

[PrivateTim]

If you are over 30 and you want to continue dating under-30s, yes, you have to compensate. If, on the other hand, you want to date someone your age or a bit older, it's all good. When you're younger you see hitting 30 as "the wall". When you're older, you find it's not really important at all because, well, you're older.

 

I don't quite think that was Jeremy's point, that to date younger guys you have to look/act younger, but that much of gay culture is very youth oriented and that you become invisible at a certain age or worse than invisible, if you dare show up in a club and you are over 50 you actually get scorn and derision.

 

I can't speak of gay culture outside of CA because other than random nights out in clubs in ATL, Dallas, Miami, Chicago, NYC & DC (among a few other U.S. & Canadian cities) I've not had prolonged exposure, but there is a definite culture on how you have to look, what you can wear, who you can talk to and where you can club. There are a lot of 40+ year olds I know busting their hump at Crunch to keep that accepted look and they aren't guys into twinks (not mostly at least), it is an unspoken Zeitgeist.

 

Mark has captured bits and pieces of this in his Hollywood parties, but those are just a subset of the overall gay culture in So Cal. If you are over a certain age you are expected to banish yourself from WeHo and go to Silverlake where old gays (35+?) go to whither away.

 

The worst part is of course that the young guys will go to the parties thrown by the aging gay mafia in L.A. and then turn around and slam them anonymously in WeHo Confidential.

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Sure there are gay clubs where if you are older, you're a pariah. Which is, to my view, very high schoolish behavior, it's very juvenile to me. Very "cool kids".  In my town - Detroit - I can count those kinds of clubs on one hand. But there are also bars where an older crowd, meaning adults who are there to socialize, meet friends with like interests and not worry so much about who's wearing what and all that, can go. It's not "banishment" as much as it is growing up, to me.

 

And if I go to a dance club where people are looking down at me, I ignore them. I'm not there for them, and they're not there for me, so nothing of value is lost by not playing into their teenager games.

[methodwriter85]

 

I can't speak of gay culture outside of CA because other than random nights out in clubs in ATL, Dallas, Miami, Chicago, NYC & DC (among a few other U.S. & Canadian cities) I've not had prolonged exposure, but there is a definite culture on how you have to look, what you can wear, who you can talk to and where you can club. There are a lot of 40+ year olds I know busting their hump at Crunch to keep that accepted look and they aren't guys into twinks (not mostly at least), it is an unspoken Zeitgeist.

 

   I mean, it all really does depend on where you're at and who you talk to, but you're right about that. I'm what Carrie Bradshaw would call a "Schmoe 'Mo", so I'm not really comfortable around the high maintanance gay types. As a result, I wasn't really part of the gay scene at UD, who were mostly the clubby guys that'd go up to gay clubs in Philadelphia. But when I went to a podunk town a hour west of Pittsburgh, I found a much more relaxed environment of gays there. Because really, you can't put on airs when you live in a podunk former mining town-turn-blue-collar-unversity-town.

 

 

And if I go to a dance club where people are looking down at me, I ignore them. I'm not there for them, and they're not there for me, so nothing of value is lost by not playing into their teenager games.

 

   That's a wonderful attitude to have, but I imagine it's not an easy one to attain, especially if you're someone who did indeed fit the standard and then started aging out of it.

 

    I did like If It Fits for dealing a little bit with how Stefan felt about no longer being the hot young twink that everyone's after. I mean, of course, he's still considered "hot" in CAP universe, but aging is still something that's not pleasant for either Stefan or Robbie.

 

     And I felt like Millenium really got into the aging issue- Robbie feeling insecure about his aging, which got compounded by Brad still looking like he's about 27 instead of 37, and having the still-young Matt around. And how would Brad deal with hitting 50, which is usually when even the young-looking guys finally start hitting the aging wall. Would he get plastic surgery to deal like Stefan did, or would he just deal? I would imagine Robbie in 2013 being pumped up with Restylane and Botox.

 

       I wonder if the CAP series will last long enough that we'll see how Matt feels about entering his 30's. and if he'll share the freaking out about getting older that his father did. I can't imagine Wade giving a shit, especially since in politics it's actually to your advantage that you DON'T look young for your age, because then you get taken more seriously than if you were baby-faced.

Edited July 15, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

   I mean, it all really does depend on where you're at and who you talk to, but you're right about that. I'm what Carrie Bradshaw would call a "Schmoe 'Mo", so I'm not really comfortable around the high maintanance gay types. As a result, I wasn't really part of the gay scene at UD, who were mostly the clubby guys that'd go up to gay clubs in Philadelphia. But when I went to a podunk town a hour west of Pittsburgh, I found a much more relaxed environment of gays there. Because really, you can't put on airs when you live in a podunk former mining town-turn-blue-collar-unversity-town.

 

 

   That's a wonderful attitude to have, but I imagine it's not an easy one to attain, especially if you're someone who did indeed fit the standard and then started aging out of it.

 

    I did like If It Fits for dealing a little bit with how Stefan felt about no longer being the hot young twink that everyone's after. I mean, of course, he's still considered "hot" in CAP universe, but aging is still something that's not pleasant for either Stefan or Robbie.

 

     And I felt like Millenium really got into the aging issue- Robbie feeling insecure about his aging, which got compounded by Brad still looking like he's about 27 instead of 37, and having the still-young Matt around. And how would Brad deal with hitting 50, which is usually when even the young-looking guys finally start hitting the aging wall. Would he get plastic surgery to deal like Stefan did, or would he just deal? I would imagine Robbie in 2013 being pumped up with Restylane and Botox.

 

       I wonder if the CAP series will last long enough that we'll see how Matt feels about entering his 30's. and if he'll share the freaking out about getting older that his father did. I can't imagine Wade giving a shit, especially since in politics it's actually to your advantage that you DON'T look young for your age, because then you get taken more seriously than if you were baby-faced.

 

JP on aging: Meh. 

Stef and Robbie on aging:  STOP!  STOP!  STOP!  Must inject botox!  Must have plastic surgery! 

Brad on aging:  I little nip and tuck, but no big deal.  Be subtle. 

Matt on aging:  As he stands right now, see Stef and Robbie (above).  But by the time he's in his 30's, he may be more mellow about it.

Wade on aging:  Meh. 

[methodwriter85]

  That sounds about right. Robbie should probably be getting his first Botox injections right about now. (2001-2002 was when Botox seemed to explode, if I'm remembering correctly.) I wonder if when Matt's in his early 30's he'll write long and insightful blog posts about how he's fighting against the ravages of aging and mourning the loss of his 18-year old jock metabolism. (But at the same time realizing that he wouldn't trade his 30-something life for anything.) He'd be 33 in 2013 so that could be interesting.

 

  As I've said before, baby-faced politicians usually aren't taken seriously, so it's to Wade's benefit that he doesn't look young for his age. I can't see it being a big deal.

 

   Probably not Will, either- although if we're supposed to go by Brad, Will is going to look no older than 25 for a long time.

 

   JJ's a question mark- he could be like Wade and have the same idea of wanting to look old for his age, or he could be the 25-year old who injects Botox. (Which does happen.) Although I'm thinking JJ's going to have a babyface and be cardable until his 30's. (Not that I would know anything about that. Ugh.)

Edited July 16, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

   JJ's a question mark- he could be like Wade and have the same idea of wanting to look old for his age, or he could be the 25-year old who injects Botox. (Which does happen.) Although I'm thinking JJ's going to have a babyface and be cardable until his 30's. (Not that I would know anything about that. Ugh.)

 

JJ is going to be totally vain, and willing to do whatever it takes to make sure his appearance is as perfect as possible.  He probably gets a zit and thinks he needs a skin peel. 

[methodwriter85]

JJ is going to be totally vain, and willing to do whatever it takes to make sure his appearance is as perfect as possible.  He probably gets a zit and thinks he needs a skin peel. 

 

I agree totally, especially once he finally catches physically to his age and non-creepsters start noticing him. (I feel like you've been telegraphing that one since JJ was about 5 and Stefan described him as being handsome but in a slightly effeminate way.) There's no way that won't bump up JJ's vanity, as opposed to someone like Will, who became "hot" at a very early age and just takes it for granted that people are going to notice him when he walks into a room. JJ isn't used to that kind of attention, and I think when he finally starts getting it, it'll probably become a bit of addiction since he's already an attenton whore.

 

Plus, let's face it- he's in a sport where appearance IS a pretty big deal. Not to mention, it's a sport where you literally are old by the time you're 25 because of the physical strain it puts on you. And if I'm right about JJ getting closer to Robbie, he's going to be exposed to Hollywood's obsession with youth pretty-hardcore when he's growing up.

 

I'd be shocked if JJ reaches his 25th birthday without getting Botox. (Unless he really changes his character trajectory in his early 20's.) I do see JJ avoiding tanning like the plague and being addicted to Bronzer/mystic tanning as an alternative. Fair skin doesn't age well if you don't take care of it, so I can see JJ being "preventative" like that. (Have you guys ever noticed that naturally blond/redhead guys tend to wrinkle up pretty early? See: Alexander Skarsguard and Michael Fassbender.. Both very hot, but you'd never mistake them for under 30.)

 

I can see JJ bitching sooooo hard about turning 25. While he's on a 3-day bender and coked up to the gills. (By 25 public image won't matter so much since his figure skating career is done by then.)

Edited July 16, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Miles Long]

 

I'd be shocked if JJ reaches his 25th birthday without getting Botox. (Unless he really changes his character trajectory in his early 20's.) I do see JJ avoiding tanning like the plague and being addicted to Bronzer/mystic tanning as an alternative. Fair skin doesn't age well if you don't take care of it, so I can see JJ being "preventative" like that. (Have you guys ever noticed that naturally blond/redhead guys tend to wrinkle up pretty early? See: Alexander Skarsguard and Michael Fassbender.. Both very hot, but you'd never mistake them for under 30.)

 

I can see JJ bitching sooooo hard about turning 25. While he's on a 3-day bender and coked up to the gills. (By 25 public image won't matter so much since his figure skating career is done by then.)

 

I could also see JJ going down a completely draconian organic/natural food, exercise all day health nut path too, making one wish he would go on a three day coke extravaganza.

[centexhairysub]

Hmmm... Interesting that you all keep assuming that JJ is going to make it to 25...

[methodwriter85]

I could also see JJ going down a completely draconian organic/natural food, exercise all day health nut path too, making one wish he would go on a three day coke extravaganza.

 

That would be so boring, though. This generation needs at least one trainwreck in it. Darius and Will are too self-assured for that. JJ has a lot of angst coming his way so it seems like a natural fit.

 

I could see Tiffany being that way, though- it'd be interesting if Tiffany was very much "no junk food, no processed food, no T.V." mindset when it comes to Riley, and Matt and Wade rolling their eyes at it and secretly letting Riley have ice cream behind her back. It would make sense for a coach to be a fitness nut.

Edited July 16, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Miles Long]

That would be so boring, though. This generation needs at least one trainwreck in it. Darius and Will are too self-assured for that. JJ has a lot of angst coming his way so it seems like a natural fit.

 

I could see Tiffany being that way, though- it'd be interesting if Tiffany was very much "no junk food, no processed food, no T.V." mindset when it comes to Riley, and Matt and Wade rolling their eyes at it and secretly letting Riley have ice cream behind her back. It would make sense for a coach to be a fitness nut.

 

Not necessarily, JJ could get his naughty on another say with something like rope bondage, it works for a vegan friend.  As for train wrecks Nick Schluter's kids are walking Pintos just waiting to be rear ended.

 

I can totally see Tiffany going down that mind set but I do not see her going the Jeanine route of using Riley as pawn in a power struggle with Wade and Matt.

[methodwriter85]

   I'm not sure I could see JJ as a vegan (Will or Marie actually seem more likely they'd go there at some point), but I can see some 50 Shades of Gay action going on with JJ. And you're right that Nick Schluter's kids are probably train wrecks waiting to happen, but neither of them seem all that fun. A bitchy diva trainwreck is a lot more fun than a dour nerdy trainwreck.

 

   Tiffany is never going to get into power struggles with Wade and Matt about parenting Riley, because they were pretty clear on the boundaries at the outset, and Tiffany isn't someone they can just steamroll over like Robbie and Brad did with Jeanine. I'd love to see Wade even try to let Riley do something that Tiffany says he can't ala Brad and Jeanine regarding Will. There's also much more mutual respect between this trio of gay men and their lesbian baby mama as opposed to Brad/Robbie/Jeanine.

Edited July 16, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Miles Long]

...but I can see some 50 Shades of Gay action going on with JJ.

 

 

Hilarious.

[B1ue]

A bitchy diva trainwreck is a lot more fun than a dour nerdy trainwreck.

Bitchy diva is not mutually exclusive with nerdy.

 

I said it in reviews, and I'll repeat it here. Kai's response to Will having to think about his number of sexual partners is one of the few I'd find acceptable. I was a bit worried there would be some judgment incoming, and was pleased that he didn't express it.

 

Also, Will is going to pass Brad in number of sexual partners, isn't he? And probably relatively soon. Perhaps before he leaves high school, certainly by the time he's wrapped up college. and grad school 

 

And...I lost my train of thought. The image of Will as a TA somewhere down the road is going to take some getting used to. Scoring a hot TA in college is awesome. I got three one quarter, it was like Christmas that lasted 10 weeks (and I don't think I ever attended class so religiously). Will is going to break so, so many freshmen in his intro to Bio sections.

Edited July 18, 2013 by B1ue

[MJ85]

Also, Will is going to pass Brad in number of sexual partners, isn't he? And probably relatively soon. Perhaps before he leaves high school, certainly by the time he's wrapped up college. and grad school

At the rate he was at, I wouldn't be surprised if Will has had more sexual partners by the time he leaves high school than the entire rest of the family combined.