9.11

[rjo]

What everybody is forgetting is one simple word. LOVE. If Brad would remember how much he loves Will, and tell Will that. If He would tell him how he has loved Will ever since he held Will for the first time. Will would melt.

if Brad would say that he is not perfect but he loves Will so much that he would give his life for Will, without a moments thought. I know Brad has it in himself, because he has done it before. The situation with Stef is harder. He broke Will's trust. But still Will loves Stef a lot. All these people only need to remind themselves of that fact. Such a easy answer, LOVE.

[mmike1969]

Ah, screw that love crap. This ain't Twilight. 

[methodwriter85]

   This is a teenaged son, not Brad's middle-aged lover.

[centexhairysub]

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

 

Attributed to Mark Twain

 

 

Oh you are so wrong here. Rape is a crime of power and control only in some cases does it involve violence.

 

A rape victim does not say "no" sometimes because they can not out of fear of violence, fear of reprisal or the lack of mental capacity to say no. Mere lack of a "no" and a claim of "expressive consent" (I knew she wanted it too) is a very weak defense in rape cases. The notion of "I knew he/she wanted it too, but I had to take control" is a 1970's attitude that if a defendant said that on the stand it would take everything his lawyer had not to reach out and not choke him right there. Juries don't like that attitude.

 

The fraternity house that I advise at USC we bring in an ADA every fall to speak to the pledge class on what constitutes rape and especially the idea of "date rape" and by the time he is done he has scared the 18 year olds into at least two weeks of celibacy, maybe longer.

 

As to Will & Brad, it is very hard to have a calm, polite conversation with someone that won't talk to you. I can only imagine the pent up anxiety of the father of a 14 year old who has their own bar, is buying pot and has a sex room and won't take his phone calls. It also takes two to have a shouting match just as it takes two to have a calm, polite conversation.

 

I am not sure that I agreed with anything you said, but damn, I love how you said it...

 

 

I agree that Malcolm might have feared for his job and that is why he went along with Will using him like he did; but as it was written, I really felt that Malcolm wanted it and that Will was just smart enough to figure that out and go with it. 

 

 

We as a society all to often still regard rape as something that someone brings on themelves or asks for.  I can tell you that never happens...  No one that has ever counseled a rape victim has ever found one that wanted it to happen. 

 

 

I really think have of the issues that Brad is bringing up about Will and his behaviour are in Brad's head or they are worse then they are because of how Brad is taking them.  Hell, half of what he is gripping about, he did with Will around before the emancipation...

Edited August 30, 2013 by centexhairysub

[methodwriter85]

I am not sure that I agreed with anything you said, but damn, I love how you said it...

 

    Agreed. I have Tim pictured as a sexy mid-30-something Republican lawyer hot Suburban Dad type.

[centexhairysub]

I miss Tonto so much and wish she was around because she would already have slapped some sense into quite a few people in this family over their behaviour...  I don't think she would have been all in anyone's corner but she would not have tolerated how some of these people are acting with each other...

 

 

I really do think that Will has to find a way to talk to Brad.  I am not sure having pre-conditions are a bad idea at this point.  If he wants to have a meaningful conversation; then they need to be able to talk without Brad starting to lose it or Will walking off without anything being resolved.  Robbie and JP are going to have to be the ones that work together to bring Will and Brad together. 

 

 

Tim has stated, and I bow to his knowledge in this area, that Brad really cannot have Will's emanication revoked.  I think that Brad probably knows this and is just using it as a threat.  The problem is that he is on the verge of rupturing his relationship with his sons to a point of perhaps no return.  I do think that it isn't just his relationship with Will that is going to suffer.  Darius will certainly back Will and I think JP is probably right that JJ will as well.  The fact that Robbie understands and believes that Will is right is going to reinforce that with the other boys.  I just don't understand how Brad is willing to lose so much when he can't win.  Surely he has already talked to his attorney and is aware of how unlikely it is that he can revoke the emancipation. 

 

 

I think Will is under-estimating Claire's reaction to this latest issue.  With everything else already going on, I have to believe that Claire will not just blindly take Marie's side.  I could even seen Claire taking it upon herself to contact Erik or doing whatever she feels is necessary to get to the truth.  I think the blindfold is off and she is going to work towards finding the truth of the matter no matter what...

 

 

JP is going to have to be the one to do what he can to bridge the issues between the parties.  I am not sure at this point that anyone else has enough standing to bring them together. 

 

 

Brad's biggest weakness is his ego, Will's is his love and even need of family.  I would much rather have Will's weakness than Brad's...

[centexhairysub]

    Agreed. I have Tim pictured as a sexy mid-30-something Republican lawyer hot Suburban Dad type.

 

 

I know exactly what you mean; even when I disagree with Tim, I love how his mind works...  Yea, I have a picture of him in my mind's eye in court; but what I want to know is what he wears for Halloween...  LOL...

[rjo]

Some people think family is Will's weakness. I believe like Wade it is a strength.

Edited August 31, 2013 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

    It's a weakness only in the sense that it's going to keep Will from being capable of the kind of ruthless behavior that Stefan and Brad can do. I'm not sure Will could ever do the CEO deal because he's generally too compassionate.

[rjo]

Again Brad's win at all costs, to hell with the out come.

[rjo]

I am sure that both Stef and Brad think they are doing the right thing. However if they continue as they have, no mater if they are right or wrong. They will lose. Lose Will. Lose JJ and Darius. Lose Robbie. and Stef will lose JP. All the money in the world will not make up for that. So was the victory worth it?

[MJ85]

I was figuring that locking Will and Brad in a room would be a decidedly less-comical version of what happened in the episode The PTA Disbands from the Simpsons. Skinner and Krabappel end up locked in a room to force a resolution on a teachers' strike. (I was hoping to find a clip with that moment in it; unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be one posted. Damn it. )

[MJ85]

OK, now I really would want to see the "locked in a room" solution happen. Granted, Brad's managed to totally fuck up his relationship with Will, but given the "conditions" that Will's set forth, how exactly is that supposed to really be met other than for Brad to be totally grovelling at Will's feet?

 

And quite frankly, even if Brad does follow through and apologize - it just doesn't feel like that's going to be enough. Maybe for Will - but for everyone?

[B1ue]

It's interesting that Robbie has reacted in the way he has. He'll admit, even now, that he screwed up and that Will, Brad and Stef were able to force him to pull his head from his ass. But he doesn't want them in that position ever again. It's not the reaction I expected of him. I'm a little impressed, and it helps explain his change of heart regarding Will.

[rjo]

What is so interesting, so amazing is the power of Mark's writing. Just look at us his readers. We argue back and forth, what should happen. Who is wrong or right. Why? It comes down to one thing how real these characters seem to us. They jump off the page. They have the power to make us laugh or cry,. They make us angry and sad, happy but they never bore us. We care about them . We came here day after day, some times many times a day. Waiting for the next chapter. Seeing what will happen to them. Hoping for the best and praying to avoid the worst. I for one can't thank and his team enough for their work Thank you, Thank you, Mark!

[Kitt]

Damn well told!

[methodwriter85]

 

Again Brad's win at all costs, to hell with the out come.

 

     What's interesting is that Brad's least-favored son and niece both have that "win at all costs" trait to them, but Will doesn't. That's not to say he won't go nuclear, but Will's general philosophy, like Wade's, is winning at life rather than winning for winning's sake.

 

 

It's interesting that Robbie has reacted in the way he has. He'll admit, even now, that he screwed up and that Will, Brad and Stef were able to force him to pull his head from his ass. But he doesn't want them in that position ever again. It's not the reaction I expected of him. I'm a little impressed, and it helps explain his change of heart regarding Will.

 

       I really think that Robbie finding out that JJ was getting molested by his coach while Robbie was going on to the family about how much they were ignoring JJ's problems really was a major wake-up call. I think it made Robbie re-evaluate a lot, and made him see that perhaps he doesn't have the answer to everything. That in turn made his judgement better than it was when he thought he was infallible.

Edited August 31, 2013 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

I think that when Robbie found out about JJ and his coach his whole approach changed. Tim used the quote from Mark Twain awhile back. It  maybe truer than one thinks. Robbie has learned from his mistakes and become a better person and a better parent. I am hoping Brad will learn something too.

[davewri]

To follow on what rjo has pointed out. Mark has written this story so well we slip into his web and react to these characters as real people.

 

I will continue to read and accept this story as true and the characters are real until proven otherwise.   

[Mark Arbour]

Chapter 34 should post within the next hour and a half.

[methodwriter85]

 

Like you, I tend to lump Menlo into the same basic category as H-W, and assume they're somewhat similar. I also had the same question about cameras, but I really don't know, so I'm defaulting to go with they don't have them. Yet.

 

I would think they would because this is post-Columbine, but I could also see that a wealthy, private school would rely on their security guards and plus, it's not an immense, bad public school. You're not getting rowdy kids who are bored and don't want to be there. The set up of the school is pretty serious(seriously, 9th graders have to take physics), and I can't see it as being the type of place where the kids run amock while bored teachers hand out packets. The entrances probably would have the cameras to keep non-students out, but I can buy them not having an all-out security camera system in 2001.

 

From what I've read of Menlo, at this time period they were undergoing renovations and expansions (the first one was done in 1999, the second was completed in Will's graduation year of 2004), so you can just pretend that in Will's locker wing they didn't have cameras yet.

 

In any event, I don't think the cameras would have made that much of a difference, because you've only got so many junior/senior office aids who could've gotten access to the locker assignments who would have been working during the homeroom/first period, so Ferris would have been caught either way. I think how they handled it made a lot of sense- it wasn't physical fighting. There's a zero bullying policy there, but without Will getting physically manhandled I can't see the school making a big deal out of it, especially as long as Ferris took his punishment and apologized. Otherwise, they'd have to bring Ferris's parents into it who might not take Ferris getting expelled from the school well, and then things could get really ugly.

 

It's a disapointment that Noah turned into such a chump, but it's really realistic. Noah is dyed-in-the-wool follower who's following a woman who's declared Will the "enemy", so it all makes sense.

 

 

“We were staying at the Marriott at the World Trade Center, since it was right next to where Mom and Hank were having their ceremony.”…This is going to be tough going Mark. I applaud you for going down this road, more artists need to, but, just reading those words made me pause and get up from the computer.

 

     Especially since they estimated that at least 50 people died at the Marriott when the building collapsed.

Edited September 2, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Daddydavek]

The die is cast so to speak and now we know that the CAP family will be either at or very close to ground zero.   The site of so much death,destruction and heroism.  

 

I will never forget the images of people jumping to their deaths to escape the flames, including a couple holding hands as they jumped to their deaths.  I was employed at the local Missouri VA office at the time and we watched in horror and disbelief.   I lost friends at the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995 and didn't think anything could be worse.  Of course I was wrong.

 

It will be interesting to see how this catastrophic and senseless attack affects the cast of CAP and their perceptions of each other.  I look forward to the next few chapters with anticipation and anxiety as well as a fair amount of pure dread.

[centexhairysub]

Okay, I have family plans for the day and can't spend as much time as I would like so I am cheating and copying my comments in the review into here...  I will add more when I have more time.

 

 

Anyone that has ever gone bungee jumping knows that feeling when the cord starts to catch and for that split second; you wonder, " Will it hold'? That feeling of excitement and terror all rolled up into one feeling in the pit of your stomach. That is the feeling that I have on each of these chapters the last couple of weeks.

 

I noticed above someone commented about the wedding being in the morning. That would not have been possible. No events were allowed on the observation deck before it opened at 9:30 a.m. Now, I guess if you had enough pull, you might have gotten around this but I can't see Jeanine or Hank having that type of pull as they seemed to be the ones planning all of this without any help from the rest of the family. Plus, do you know how early everyone would have to get up and get moving for a wedding at 9:00 a.m.??? Hell, the hair would have to start getting done way before 5:00 a.m. I think it is safe to say that the wedding is planned for the evening of September 11th, not in the morning. Of course, Mark could have this changed but....

 

The Marriot World Trade Center was in building 3 of the WTC complex. While it was not hit directly, although landing gear and other parts from one of the planes did strike the hotel; it was destroyed in the subsequent collapse of the two towers. I think less than a hundred people died in the hotel and most of them were firemen that were using the hotel as a staging point for the two towers. I don't believe that any guest were killed in the destruction of the hotel. It was a really beautiful hotel and the service was just exceptional... I had stayed at the hotel less than a year before it's destruction.

 

I just really don't understand Marie's endgame at this point. It doesn't appear that she can push him from the school or even the position that he has within the school; so what is she trying to do? Everyone has to believe or at least suspect that Ferris did what he did at the urging of Marie since he is one of her toadies. Her position is even more precarious since John has taken his cousin's side over his sister. How will everyone react when they find out that Marie basically drove her brother out of the house and he is now going to be living with Will???

 

I think Noah is going to end up being of the the people really hurt by all of this teen drama. I think Marie is really using him or at least started out using him to get back at Will. Can Noah survive socially in this atmosphere if Marie dumps him and Will doesn't stand behind him?

 

It looks like Will has another conquest in Cam. I sort of like this kid even though we don't know much about him. He seems shy and funny and like Alistair might prove to be someone that would do Will good to hang around with and enjoy spending time with him.

 

I just can't believe how Brad and Stef are acting. If JP's disapproval wasn't enough, which it should have been; then the fact that Darius, JJ, and Robbie are avoiding them as much as they apparently are should have been a big clue...

 

I had really hoped for the longest time that no one in the CAP universe would be hurt or killed in the events of 09/11 but everything about Mark's writing suggest that is not going to be the case; I do hope and pray that I am wrong... I have a scenario that keeps coming up in my head of what is going to happen; and will be sick if it is even close to being right. I am sure Mark already has everything about the next few chapters completed except for maybe some editing so I don't think any last minute invocations of prayer or begging is going to change what Mark has planned. I am sure this is going to be hanlded with grace, humility, and that special touch that Mark seems to bring to all of his stories.

 

No matter what happens, thanks for the ride; it has been a great one....

Edited September 2, 2013 by centexhairysub

[rjo]

As the count down begins and the day gets closer, who would you want to die? How would that death change those who remain? In life there are people who we may not like from time to time but who would want them died? David hoped that no one would die. Even though I am upset with Brad and Stef, having them die is something I could not do. Remember, I was upset when George Granger was captured. At this point it would be upsetting to lose Hank. She has helped Jeanine recover. Sharon was ready to throw JJ under a bus, however now he has turned into a loyal and caring brother. Robbie has redeemed himself. To lose JP and Will would be unthinkable. Mark has honestly put to much into Will to lose him now, as for JP this is his story if we lost him the story would end. There are times I wish Tonto was still alive, I think she would love Will more than everyone else and be even more a defender than JP is. What she would say to Brad and Stef can't be said here, but they would not like it at all. Who should die and who should live? I am glad Mark has to make that verdict. I would not want to do that. In all these stories, through the whole saga, only The Box had this feeling of doom. I wanted Steven to live, and come to see how JP and his son turned out. Now that it is only days away the feeling is overpowering. I hope the chapters come quickly. Waiting and not knowing is hard on all of us.

Edited September 2, 2013 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

    This is random, but I'm watching a Waltons T.V. movie marathon. I just realized that the Danfields named their daughter after a character on the Waltons. The irony is hilarious. LOL.

 

     Although it does make sense, as The Waltons takes place in roughly the same area as the Danfields come from.

 

    I was more of a Little House on the Prairie fan growing up, although I vaguely remember The Waltons re-running on the Family Channel back in the 90's. It's so earnest, as opposed to the entertainingly campy over-the-top-ness of LHOTP:

 

Edited September 2, 2013 by methodwriter85