rjo Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Wasn't it once said: And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Westie Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Wasn't it once said: And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. John, 8:32 I wouldn't say the bible is the best book to quote from as a source of authority in this forum 2
Sammy Blue Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I always liked this misquotation: "If a man lies with another man, he should be stoned." Will is certainly sticking to it... 2
rjo Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 My point was that over the years I have learn that the truth is always the way to go. If you go another way, the truth will always come out and maybe not telling the truth will hurt people much worse. 2
Kitt Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 It's also a damn sight easier than keeping tract of the lies you tell. 2
Mark Arbour Posted January 17, 2014 Author Posted January 17, 2014 One man's truth is another man's lie 2
Daddydavek Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Still wondering where Mark takes 9.11's story line next and it's only Friday..... 1
mmike1969 Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Still wondering where Mark takes 9.11's story line next and it's only Friday..... If you are a member of his yahoo group, you would already know the answer to this And THAT IS the truth. Edited January 17, 2014 by mmike1969 1
B1ue Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 "If a man lies with another man, he should be stoned." Will is certainly sticking to it... That's pretty hilarious, and quite true for most of the cast. 3
methodwriter85 Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I didn't buy Wade's behavior at the party. That was something Brad would do, not Wade.There's no way Wade would have gotten into a screaming match with Matt at a public party- he's constantly aware of the fact that people are watching him, especially now that he's the Patriot Senator's son. Even if they were outside, you can't tell me that people wouldn't have either heard or seen from the windows, and given that it's a sorority party, there's going to be people outside milling about taking smoke breaks and the like. I did, however, like how Tony got called out by Wade. What an idiot. He basically had it made because of the Schluters/Cramptons, and he threw that all away. 1
Daddydavek Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I too thought that Wade's entire behavior at the party was out of character and suspect it was a product of just how out of sorts he is in his grief and the prospect of losing Matt entirely. I am beginning to think more and more that the trajectory of their relationship is headed for a final crash. While I used to worry about Brad and Robbie breaking up, as I said in my review, I somehow don't get the feeling that Wade and Matt's relationship is as central to them as Brad and Robbie's was to them. Tony is history. Whether Zach is just taking Will for a ride or not is a chance Will is willing to take and it is clear he thinks the others should just let him enjoy the ride while he can for as long as he can. Which is not so unusual for him. 1
PrivateTim Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 So everyone thinks that given Will's current mental make-up (not that he has ever been terribly stable) a potential betrayal by Zach would be okay as long as it feels good for awhile? Wouldn't that be the worst possible thing? (a betrayal by someone you've been defending and trusting) Who knows if Zach is sincere with Will or Brent? You don't the context in which Zach said it. It could be flippancy, a defense mechanism or the truth. But wouldn't it be fun if Will burned up the truck he bought? 1
Mark Arbour Posted January 18, 2014 Author Posted January 18, 2014 I didn't buy Wade's behavior at the party. That was something Brad would do, not Wade.There's no way Wade would have gotten into a screaming match with Matt at a public party- he's constantly aware of the fact that people are watching him, especially now that he's the Patriot Senator's son. Even if they were outside, you can't tell me that people wouldn't have either heard or seen from the windows, and given that it's a sorority party, there's going to be people outside milling about taking smoke breaks and the like. I did, however, like how Tony got called out by Wade. What an idiot. He basically had it made because of the Schluters/Cramptons, and he threw that all away. Which chapter did you read? I couldn't find anywhere in this chapter where Wade got into a screaming match with Matt, or with anyone else. He was arguably more emotional than normal, and he was conscious that he was drunk, but he wasn't screaming. Wade would have been viciously direct, speaking in a normal tone, with both Tony and Matt. It's possible that people noticed them arguing outside, but I don't think a brief unpleasant discussion (only apparent when Wade pulled himself free from Matt's grip and left) is out of character. 1
Mark Arbour Posted January 18, 2014 Author Posted January 18, 2014 So everyone thinks that given Will's current mental make-up (not that he has ever been terribly stable) a potential betrayal by Zach would be okay as long as it feels good for awhile? Wouldn't that be the worst possible thing? (a betrayal by someone you've been defending and trusting) You mean like he experienced with Tony and Matt? Who knows if Zach is sincere with Will or Brent? You don't the context in which Zach said it. It could be flippancy, a defense mechanism or the truth. But wouldn't it be fun if Will burned up the truck he bought? Good points. Can you imagine the furor if Will burned Zach's Durango? I'd have everyone here going batshit insane. 5
mmike1969 Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Well Mark, there is a simple solution and simply compromise: Have Will torch the Durango with Tony inside. 3
GLH Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 I'd have everyone here going batshit insane. And that's different how? 1
mmike1969 Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 And that's different how? Because then everyone will be agreeing! Duh! 1
PrivateTim Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 PrivateTim, on 18 Jan 2014 - 10:10 AM, said: So everyone thinks that given Will's current mental make-up (not that he has ever been terribly stable) a potential betrayal by Zach would be okay as long as it feels good for awhile? Wouldn't that be the worst possible thing? (a betrayal by someone you've been defending and trusting) You mean like he experienced with Tony and Matt? Except that Will has never trusted or defended Matt. Tony was Will's error in judgment. He had several opportunities to recognize what Tony was like and kept turning a blind eye to it because to be frank, Tony could fuck him so well. He kept forgiving Tony because the sex was good (which sounds like a Dr. Phil show in the making). He never thought of, nor treated Matt as a brother or family, but wants to pull the brother/family card when he wants to make Tony off limits, but doesn't want to have to see Wally & Clara as family as well. It is Will's morals of convenience and family connections of convenience that bother me. Either you are willing to live up to a set of community standards for behavior or you are not. You don't get to choose which ones you want to reject because they are inconvenient to what you want to do. By the same token, when you have two parents they each come with their own family. You don't get to choose which members are family and which are not. You may not like them, but they are still family.
B1ue Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 So everyone thinks that given Will's current mental make-up (not that he has ever been terribly stable) a potential betrayal by Zach would be okay as long as it feels good for awhile? Wouldn't that be the worst possible thing? (a betrayal by someone you've been defending and trusting) Who knows if Zach is sincere with Will or Brent? You don't the context in which Zach said it. It could be flippancy, a defense mechanism or the truth. But wouldn't it be fun if Will burned up the truck he bought? Except that Will has never trusted or defended Matt. Tony was Will's error in judgment. He had several opportunities to recognize what Tony was like and kept turning a blind eye to it because to be frank, Tony could fuck him so well. He kept forgiving Tony because the sex was good (which sounds like a Dr. Phil show in the making). It doesn't seem like Will fully trusts Zach. Defending him yes, and trusting him within certain given parameters, but even as he falls in love with him, he's assuming that the lit stick of dynamite he's holding on to will explode at some point. It's possible to not care about being screwed over, for me at least. A similar fatalistic attitude regarding his love life seems to be a natural progression for Will's character development. Like he wants a relationship where he can't trust his partner completely, because he just doesn't want to deal with that after Tony. Depending on how sincere Zach is, he may actually be the more emotionally vulnerable of the two. Even if he is pulling a con, he's still trusting Will to be the more decent person, and trusting his entire planned career on that decency. It could be interesting if, assuming I'm correct, he figures out that while he's been giving everything he's capable of giving, Will has been holding back because Zach is just flat not worthy of being fully invested in. 2
methodwriter85 Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 That's pretty astute, and I have to say that I agree with you. Will doesn't fully trust Zach- he trusts Zach to be honest with him about how much of a dick he can be, and he trusts that Zach will probably screw him over at some point, and he figures that he'll enjoy his time with Zach until Zach gives him a reason not to trust him. I think the relationship is happening because Zach can be totally honest about himself with Will (such as Zach can be), and Will likes that this relationship keeps him sleeping with one eye open. It appeals to him after the humiliation of his failed relationship with Tony where he trusted him completely and believed Tony hung the moon. 2
PrivateTim Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 ....Will has been holding back because Zach is just flat not worthy of being fully invested in. It is an interesting thought...... but where is the evidence of Will holding back anything? He tells Zach things he doesn't tell anyone else, JP and Wade included, he barebacks with Zach, he flies clear across the country to see him taking time away from his friends in CA, he buys him a car, he bites off the head of anyone who questions his relationship with Zach, including Wade. Sure Will can say the words, "If Zach fucks me over, he fucks me over," but such bradvo is very different when you actually DO get fucked over by someone you think is into you. You say the words others want to hear so they climb off you, but you don't believe them half the time yourself. Time will tell.. 2
mmike1969 Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 What bugs me: People bugging Will over the relationships of Will and Tony and Will and Zach. I have more faith in Will marrying Zach (the Schuster being with a Hayes meme) then I do Will being with Tony in any kind of relationship other then a booty call. Will wants people to butt out of his private life. Fine. If Zach screws over Will, THEN you get to gloat. You already warned him once. You do not need to warn him again and again. 3
methodwriter85 Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 And on the flip side, if we're talking about walking the walk, I don't really think Will gets that all up into people's business about who they're dating. He might make snide remarks to Wade about Matt, but he doesn't tell Wade not to date him. He's never tried telling any of his siblings about who they should date, even when he doesn't like their love interests, like Ella. And he was initially skeptical about Hank, but he didn't try and stop Jeanine from dating her. 5
rjo Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Jeremy you are right, and one more thing, he gave Hank a chance and because of that he became closer to Hank than anybody else. When you judge Will remember that on the plus side. He only wants to control his own life not other peoples lives, and he also is willing to give people a chance as in Tony, Hank, Zach. That can be for better or worse. Edited January 20, 2014 by rjo 1
Kitt Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Just a comment about Wade. In the reply to my review it was said: "You're not the only one who thought Wade "lost it" at the A-Ho party, but I didn't see it that way. I think there's some leeway involved because of the fact he was drunk, but he didn't yell and scream, he was just pretty direct." Loosing it doesn't always mean a screaming fit or shouted argument. A lot of things Wade did at that party were very out of character for him. I think it was an indication that he isn't his usual together calm self. He had a pretty major loss too, and is just as in need of processing his grief as Matt, Will, Brad and the rest! 3
Recommended Posts