So my boss outed me.

[Chris82]

Luckily of those who know (he didnt tell everyone) don't care. We make playful jokes about it. But part of me feels pretty damn violated since I'm not out. Its also pretty damn disrespectful. So I was wondering if I chose to ever pursue this further, what kind of flack could he have against him for doing so? One dude at work is a homophobe so if he knew, work place could become potentially hostile.

 

Comments please.

 

-Chris

[Krista]

Although I understand that you feel disrespected and angry. Being a co-owner at a clinic I never would do anything like that. It is one of the first thing I learned, to respect the privacy of my employees and keep what they say in confidence between me and them. But in a way, if jokes and playful banter about your sexual orientation was common place in the work place, I don't think you have much of an argument to make.  No one is going to respect the privacy of someone that can casually joke about it - it diminishes the importance to keep it private.

 

Even though the boss shouldn't have outed you - IF - they thought most everyone knew or that you were out because of the actions that you took, then I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on. 

 

Of course no one should feel discriminated against or harassed and if that arises because of the actions your boss took, then I would pursue it, but keep in mind IF you started it, then how can you vilify the actions of your boss? Just because he/she is an authority figure, sure, but they can only respect and protect your privacy if you respect yourself enough to protect it first.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Krista

[MJ85]

Sort of building off what Krista's saying - what's the larger context here? I.E. Do you generally have a good relationship with your boss where this would've been a mistake, or is it generally not so good, where this might've been out of spite?

[Graeme]

I had the impression from the original post that the jokes are from after the outing, not before.

 

The legal situation will depend on which country this occurred in. However, I think it would be difficult to take legal action unless you could demonstrate maliciousness. I got the impression that it wasn't malicious - unthinking, maybe, but not malicious.

 

My suggestion, assuming you normally have a good relationship with your boss, is to tell him privately that you're upset about what he did and how you felt it was disrespectful. As long as you go about it in a professional manner, that might help. Being abusive in any way, though, would be counter-productive.

[Krista]

Oh oops, totally misread that this morning. So he outed you and most people took it well. I agree with Graeme then.

[thebrinkoftime]

Legally, I think the only recourse you could possibly have is if his outing of you damaged your character in a quantifiable enough way where you could show proof of the damages, or if it led to your dismissal at the job.

 

Truthfully, though, none of us as yet have an idea of how this outing happened. I think it possible that I'm thinking the same thing everyone else is, if he outed through a careless slip of the tongue, that's one thing, but if he did it with intention to hurt you, that's another.

 

Also, if I hadn't been exposed to tons of gay literature, I would have had no idea about the concept of "outing," or that somebody doing it might be considered disrespectful or something that might make them feel violated. Seriously, right now in my head, I'm replaying the conversation I had with a friend many years ago.

 

"But if I know, aren't you already out because I know?"

 

"No!"

 

"I don't get it. Out is supposed to be when people know you're gay. I know you're gay. Therefore you are out."

 

"No, I'm out to you. There's a difference to being out to one or several people, or a group, but not publically out."

 

"Oooooooh! I see."

 

You may think that conversation sounds stupid, but seriously if I didn't read it or get taught it by a gay person, how would I know otherwise that that's how it works? Personal experience? Not very likely is it? I just interpreted "out" to mean that he had admitted it and was not afraid to hide it anymore, but we were still going to keep it from his parents and lay low around homophobic bullies, because duh. To me, the closest thing I had to compare it to was virginity. You keep that a secret from parents or "forget to mention it" amongst 70-year-old church ladies, but it doesn't change the status of your virginity.

 

Come at it from the perspective of a straight person -- all other context aside, if you know the person is gay, it's pretty much the same as somebody admitting they fancy someone of the opposite sex you know. Letting that secret out depends on all sorts of social knowledge about the other person -- whether others in their social circle would approve, or whether they already know, or whether one person is already in a relationship, and so on and so forth. So for a lot of straight people, I think we just assume if you've not said anything about it, and are letting us know without much of a big deal, that you are out and open about it.

 

Whether that's true or not is beside the point. Just like you can't expect the citizens of Finland to know about the social taboos of Peru, a lot of straight people are not going to see a big deal about outing gay people who are able to joke casually about their sexuality. On the other hand, if I saw you in an interaction where somebody said, "So, pick up any hot guys lately?" and it resulted in your eyes bulging and throwing worried looks around, I would get the point, sure. But it still might be confusing if I didn't know why you were okay with me knowing it. I'm not sure if I'm being very clear, but do you get what I'm trying to say?

 

So my conclusion? When I read the words "feels pretty damn violated," I thought, "Really?" So there's a chance your boss has no idea. Let your boss know about how you feel about outing and calmly inform him of the reasons why you didn't appreciate it, but don't expect him to know the consequences as if he can instantly relate to things you may go through. It may require explanation. I think the bigger problem in the work place would be mixed signals if this continues for too long.

[Bill W]

I agree with Graeme about talking to your boss privately about the issue.  The problem is, if you decide to pursue some sort of legal ramification from this, then you will probably end up being totally outted.  That is something you should consider first, before you do anything.  How much of this do you want to get on the public record, because once it's there, then there's no way to take it back. 

[Sasha Distan]

i feel crap for you, but  i agree with Graeme. talk to him calmly and privately, and don't do what i would do which would probably end badly, with shouting and crying and bleeding...

[Thorn Wilde]

I think Brink has a good point, too. A lot of people might not really think about it. If something doesn't matter to you, it might be hard to see why it would matter to other people. Years and years ago, I outed my best friend's general anxiety disorder to a new acquaintance. I was seventeen at the time, I think. It didn't even occur to me that there was a stigma for mental illness, and my friend tended to tell everyone anyway, so I didn't realise that telling someone about it would be a breach of confidence. But it was. We remained friends and still are, but I don't think she ever trusted me in quite the same way again.

 

Sometimes it can be easy to overlook stigma and discrimination in society, not because you don't believe it can exist, but because you yourself see everyone as equal and it doesn't occur to you that others you speak to might not. So, your boss might know, rationally, that there are homophobes and dickheads out there who might want to hurt you or be cruel to you, but he won't consider the fact that they might be on his staff, in his own backyard, so to speak. Because, 'Surely, I don't know anyone who's still so short-sighted and stupid?'

Edited September 2, 2013 by Thorn Wilde

[Y_B]

If you didn't want people at work to find out, don't tell anyone at work.

It really is that easy.

Corporate culture involves some of the fastest gossip and rumor spreading I've ever encountered.

[Rndmrunner]

I don't know the circumstances of your workplace or where you live (i.e NYC or Riyadh in Saudi Arabia). Being outed differs based on where you live and work. I am in Toronto which means it is no big deal. While your boss was thoughtless, it could possibly be a sign of greater acceptance, that your sexuality is no more important than your interest in baseball. It is a contradiction but while we hope for acceptance and normality regarding our sexuality, we still live in a world where we feel the need to hide our lives, are vague about our weekends and home lives and even lie to fit in. My partner and i have a child so both of us have no ability to hide in the closet even if we  wanted to. We are still rare enough that people we don't even know in our neighbourhood know who we are. Likewise my kid has no choice about our family being out. the good news is folks get to know you and you are a person and not a poster child for anyones politics. 

 

Good luck and i hope that even if this was not your choice, it gives you a little more freedom to be who you are, whether that means shouting out your sexuality or it simply being another piece in the puzzle of who you are. 

[Chris82]

Crap I forgot all about making this thread!

 

Okay, trying to be concise here:

 

Me: not out. Nor at work. One of my buddies who works with me knows. Because I told him. My boss knows because I slipped a comment one day alluding to myself. Foot in mouth. Cant take back whats said. Already left the mouth. So that makes two people at work who know of about 12. I dont know what was said when he broadcasted that piece of privacy other than a couple guys who Im cool with told me he was saying those things about me. Of course at that point I confirmed it. But still, I guess I care enough not to stamp "Im gay!" onto my forehead. So to have someone else do it for me, well, that just seems pretty shitty. But yeah, obviously now those who know small harmless jokes are cracked. Note how I didnt say I joke with everyone. Therefore its implied some of the other guys arent cool knowing this. While Id normally say screw what they think, these are ppl I have to see and work with every day.

 

Now my boss: he's a piece of shit. Will bold-faced lie to you with a smile. Maybe not exactly malicious, but he's not a good or altruistic person. So while Ive never brought it up to him that I have to thank him for telling everyone that about me (extreme sarcasm), he would tell me that he never said those things of me to everyone else and that he would never do that sort of thing. The same way he told the whole company one of the guy's laid up a chick when they went on a business trip yet told everyone not to tell everyone else while he went and told everyone individually. That said, hes not an awesome person, but job is a job and it pays well enough. Just gotta deal with his drama. But no, we're not buddy-buddy at all.

 

Meh, while Im not actually looking to do anything legally or whatever about this, if I were to leave on bad terms (Im pretty arguementative when I know Im right about something and he tells me Im wrong when he wouldnt or doesnt know any better. i.e. "Im the boss because I know more than you do!") I was just seeing what would come of it if I chose to do something about it. Either way, theres a special place in hell for him. Yes I sound extremely vindictive, but you would too if you worked for this person. So $$$ is my mantra.

 

Ok Im done.

 

-C

[Henry_Henry2012]

I remember a real case my lawyer friend and I had discussed involving a woman in her 50's and some hotshot mobile company. She sued the company for workplace inequality because she stated that she was being mocked and teased and was called "old" or something like that by her co-workers. Her co-workers on the other hand, referred to it as playful banter or they were just joking around with her. To cut it short, she didn't win the lawsuit because the judge stated that she shouldn't have allowed such rudimentary or derogatory comments regarding her age to happen in the first place.

 

So basically, I think . . . basing on this discussion I had with a friend who worked at the HR, you shouldn't allow jokes like that to circle in the office if you're planning on suing them. (Tell me how much is you're payout and I'll charge you $100 for my free judicial advice despite my lack of degree on this matter, HAHA!).

 

But on a lighter note, professional confrontation and proper explanation always works. If you're really close with your office-mates to the point where you're BFF's then it's probably okay, depending on your leeway for what is O-kay. But as you stated, I don't think you're BFF's with your office buddies if you deem one of them as a homophobe, and since none of them knows that you're gay . . . until now.

 

I have one rule in life . . .  Unless you're feeding me, you don't have the right to know anything about me. That's why I keep things professional with my department. Because of my age, I have the tendency to call those who are older than me "Sir" or "Ma'am" despite my position (I was raised as a very respectful child by my doting parents). I always feel like I'm talking to my mum or dad whenever I speak to someone in their age range. But if and if . . . they make me feel like they're undermining me all because I'm younger than them, then prepare the wrath of my BFF, the HR Department, or as I'd like to call . . . my backbone. Haha.

[obscene cupcake]

First of all respect the chain of command. Don't go trying to get your boss in trouble first. 

 

The first thing you need to do is either 1. do nothing and wait and only pursue this if there is a problem or 2. Go to him and tell him that you are a bit uncomfortable with people knowing and ask him to please be more careful, and say that X doesn't like people of "alternative" sexualities and you are worried about that person finding out. Don't use the word homophobe. Don't be rude. Be nice. But DO mark down the date you talked to him.

 

If something happens and someone says something rude than go and ask to write a formal complaint. Keep a copy of it. 

[obscene cupcake]

I think Brink has a good point, too. A lot of people might not really think about it. If something doesn't matter to you, it might be hard to see why it would matter to other people. Years and years ago, I outed my best friend's general anxiety disorder to a new acquaintance. I was seventeen at the time, I think. It didn't even occur to me that there was a stigma for mental illness, and my friend tended to tell everyone anyway, so I didn't realise that telling someone about it would be a breach of confidence. But it was. We remained friends and still are, but I don't think she ever trusted me in quite the same way again.

 

Sometimes it can be easy to overlook stigma and discrimination in society, not because you don't believe it can exist, but because you yourself see everyone as equal and it doesn't occur to you that others you speak to might not. So, your boss might know, rationally, that there are homophobes and dickheads out there who might want to hurt you or be cruel to you, but he won't consider the fact that they might be on his staff, in his own backyard, so to speak. Because, 'Surely, I don't know anyone who's still so short-sighted and stupid?'

OOOOO man that was REALLY bad. 

 

I also agree with what brink said- it really didn't seem a big deal to me, and I honestly think you have more to loose by pursuing this because you feel insulted, than you stand to gain. If you are a troublemaker they will give you shit jobs and/or cut your hours until you quit. It's not legal, but they'll do it. And it seems petty of me to try and ruin your bosses reputation just because he is an idiot. 

[obscene cupcake]

Crap I forgot all about making this thread!

 

Okay, trying to be concise here:

 

Me: not out. Nor at work. One of my buddies who works with me knows. Because I told him. My boss knows because I slipped a comment one day alluding to myself. Foot in mouth. Cant take back whats said. Already left the mouth. So that makes two people at work who know of about 12. I dont know what was said when he broadcasted that piece of privacy other than a couple guys who Im cool with told me he was saying those things about me. Of course at that point I confirmed it. But still, I guess I care enough not to stamp "Im gay!" onto my forehead. So to have someone else do it for me, well, that just seems pretty shitty. But yeah, obviously now those who know small harmless jokes are cracked. Note how I didnt say I joke with everyone. Therefore its implied some of the other guys arent cool knowing this. While Id normally say screw what they think, these are ppl I have to see and work with every day.

 

Now my boss: he's a piece of shit. Will bold-faced lie to you with a smile. Maybe not exactly malicious, but he's not a good or altruistic person. So while Ive never brought it up to him that I have to thank him for telling everyone that about me (extreme sarcasm), he would tell me that he never said those things of me to everyone else and that he would never do that sort of thing. The same way he told the whole company one of the guy's laid up a chick when they went on a business trip yet told everyone not to tell everyone else while he went and told everyone individually. That said, hes not an awesome person, but job is a job and it pays well enough. Just gotta deal with his drama. But no, we're not buddy-buddy at all.

 

Meh, while Im not actually looking to do anything legally or whatever about this, if I were to leave on bad terms (Im pretty arguementative when I know Im right about something and he tells me Im wrong when he wouldnt or doesnt know any better. i.e. "Im the boss because I know more than you do!") I was just seeing what would come of it if I chose to do something about it. Either way, theres a special place in hell for him. Yes I sound extremely vindictive, but you would too if you worked for this person. So $$$ is my mantra.

 

Ok Im done.

 

-C

Oh, so basically.... it's a job/hell as usual and sucks as usual?

 

Alright XD And here I was imagining GGB making a harmless mistake and you overreacting. So we have "typical boss" ie Satan... being a typical asshole.