Streak

[mmike1969]

That's right. In paternity, Wade got ahold of his trust by having a Danfield. Perhaps something similar is in ME's trust?

 

And since JP already mentioned the Grangers is rumored to be cash poor (in Flux) I am going to take it as 97.6% fact.

 

Edit: I am trying to find this old Schwepps Commercial in which a British lord was complaining about selling off The 14th Duke, silverware and having to open up the family estate to common people but his one luxury was Schepps bottled water. And that is the image I get from modern day Bridgemont.

Edited January 13, 2015 by mmike1969

[methodwriter85]

I'm pretty sure Mary Ellen isn't gold-digging. She's someone who grew up in a family where 250 million dollar trusts are possible. What she wants is something you can't really buy in the United States, and that's a title. So she's going the Lady Cora Downton Abbey route.

 

The ironic thing is that for all of her horrendous behaviors and actions of the past... and present... The Granger family would likely find her "suitable" because of her American blue-blood-lines. Being a slut can be overlooked, since she comes from such a prominent and wealthy family. When you throw the devious Mommie Dearest into the mix and let her loose on the head of the Granger family, if she wants a marriage between Alex and ME (now, Mommie Dearest in waiting), then my guess is...a marriage there will be. The fact is, no matter what the circumstances, and it would appear that Alex is the father, this baby is a Danfield, and thus, a bigger player than most other babies would be in the Granger and the public's eyes.

 

 

Do British blue-bloods really view American blue-bloods as anything coming close to a peer?

 

In any event, the addition of the Danfield "good name" and their even-better money does do a lot to ensure Mary Ellen's attractiveness as a suitable mate.

 

 I'm still a little confused by her motives, though. Why would Mary Ellen -- 21 (or thereabouts) years old, beautiful and rich -- be so desperate to marry that she'd settle for Matt who probably doesn't have that much more money than she does?

 

 

 

Mary Ellen is the classic UVA Southern Sorority girl, where you're only going to college so that you can catch your Mrs. Degree. Given that her reputation at UVA is probably totally trashed, she had to branch out.

 

It's actually kind of sad that someone who seems that smart is only aspiring to be a trophy wife, but that's what she was bred for, and she doesn't seem to want to buck against that. I'm guessing that there's probably also something in her trust that would allow her to access it if she has a Danfield heir.

 

I actually always thought it was kind of crazy that Claire never started her own career, because she came from that first generation of women (who came of age in the early/mid-1980's) who came into the white-collar professional work force in massive numbers. Instead, it seemed like she decided on marrying at 20 and being the premiere Bay Area social princess. I always thought it might be interesting to explore how Marie views Claire, because we all know for damn sure that Marie doesn't have any intentions of following her mother's footsteps of settling down as a married socialite in her early 20's. Marie seems destined for a more off-beat path.

 

BTW, Matt doesn't have that much money...his family is wealthy, but nowhere near the levels of the Danfields or the Schluters. What Matt does have is a good family name, and good family names mean a lot to their crowd.

Edited January 13, 2015 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Do British blue-bloods really view American blue-bloods as anything coming close to a peer?

 

In any event, the addition of the Danfield "good name" and their even-better money does do a lot to ensure Mary Ellen's attractiveness as a suitable mate.

 

British blue-bloods have always been interested in American green-bloods. The American gets status, the Brit gets to put a new roof on the country house.

 

Edited January 13, 2015 by PrivateTim

[Headstall]

I guess it is all relative. I think Matt told Cam he was worth 15 million give or take....plus he owns a decent chunk of Google shares...that is probably considered chump change to these people.

As far as ME's American blue blood making her anything close to a peer, I think it would depend on the family. Some purists would probably have no use for American pretenders, while other more modern families would give them their due. After all, a lot of these old American families have their origins with the British. I would doubt that many would still consider USA the colonies. Money is money and if it is coupled with "good breeding", it talks. Princess Grace went from Hollywood Royalty with a dubious reputation to the darling of Monaco...so I guess anything can happen.

[impunity]

I'm pretty sure Mary Ellen isn't gold-digging. She's someone who grew up in a family where 250 million dollar trusts are possible. What she wants is something you can't really buy in the United States, and that's a title. So she's going the Lady Cora Downton Abbey route.

 

 

Do British blue-bloods really view American blue-bloods as anything coming close to a peer?

 

In any event, the addition of the Danfield "good name" and their even-better money does do a lot to ensure Mary Ellen's attractiveness as a suitable mate.

 

 

Mary Ellen is the classic UVA Southern Sorority girl, where you're only going to college so that you can catch your Mrs. Degree. Given that her reputation at UVA is probably totally trashed, she had to branch out.

 

It's actually kind of sad that someone who seems that smart is only aspiring to be a trophy wife, but that's what she was bred for, and she doesn't seem to want to buck against that. I'm guessing that there's probably also something in her trust that would allow her to access it if she has a Danfield heir.

 

I actually always thought it was kind of crazy that Claire never started her own career, because she came from that first generation of women (who came of age in the early/mid-1980's) who came into the white-collar professional work force in massive numbers. Instead, it seemed like she decided on marrying at 20 and being the premiere Bay Area social princess. I always thought it might be interesting to explore how Marie views Claire, because we all know for damn sure that Marie doesn't have any intentions of following her mother's footsteps of settling down as a married socialite in her early 20's. Marie seems destined for a more off-beat path.

 

BTW, Matt doesn't have that much money...his family is wealthy, but nowhere near the levels of the Danfields or the Schluters. What Matt does have is a good family name, and good family names mean a lot to their crowd.

 

Matt inherited from Robbie, but I think it was somewhere in the vicinity of $10 million. From Mary Ellen's perspective, that wouldn't be worth going after. I also don't think his family name is worth the bother either, when her own is already so much better. Furthermore, he lives in Wade's house, doesn't have a job or go to school, and doesn't have any influence or power. If marrying Matt was really a consideration, she has to have another motive.

 

I also don't think Mary Ellen is actually that bothered with being married from the sorority girl/Mrs. status perspective.  I think she likes being independent and would like to be more so. I think the real motivator has to be her trust fund. On further reflection, I don't think it would be tied to having a baby because any baby of hers wouldn't be a Danfield heir, anyway. And her grandfather, who set up the trust fund, was probably a traditionalist who would never have contemplated (or condoned) a baby born out of wedlock to his granddaughter. Therefore, I think it's more likely that she (or possibly her husband) gets control of her trust once she's married. (Of course, any potential husband could probably be more easily manipulated than her mother.) On the other hand, Wade didn't have to be married to get control of his money; he only needed an heir. It'll be an interesting double standard, if it turns out to be the case. (As an afterthought, was it the Danfield grandfather or the other one who set up this trust? It might have been the other given that Elizabeth had control of it.)

 

I completely agree that Alex's title is the most attractive thing about him. I also don't think British aristocracy would recognize American breeding as comparable to their own, but it would certainly make marrying for American money (or an unplanned pregnancy) more palatable.

 

Finally, I found your point about Claire very interesting, especially in light of the fact that Isidore had a well established career in the construction industry, despite being married with children.

 

PS: I need to learn to write more quickly.

Edited January 14, 2015 by impunity

[impunity]

On the other hand (playing my own devil's advocate), she had to have known that Matt wouldn't have married her even if she had managed to get pregnant with his kid. Neither her not Elizabeth's machinations were a match for Wade. So, maybe it is the baby she needs, after all.

 

Argh! Trying to predict what Mark is going to do is so damn hard.

Edited January 14, 2015 by impunity

[methodwriter85]

Finally, I found your point about Claire very interesting, especially in light of the fact that Isidore had a well established career in the construction industry, despite being married with children.

 

It's possible that Claire's parents-in-law wouldn't have been cool with Claire being a "modern" woman, and she felt "encouraged" to follow Jack Hobart's mother's mode of being a socialite running charity/social functions rather than being a high-powered businesswoman like her own mother. It was the neo-conservative 1980's, in any event.

 

I wonder if Claire's willingess to conform is what made Marie the way she is- Marie comes off as somebody who really wants to be different and unique and cool. As in the opposite of her mother, who generally stuck with the status quo.

 

As for Mary Ellen, you're probably right that she wants to get married and pop out an heir because it's a way to get control of her trust.

Edited January 14, 2015 by methodwriter85

[impunity]

As for Mary Ellen, you're probably right that she wants to get married and pop out an heir because it's a way to get control of her trust.

I expect she and Alex will come to a mutually agreeable arrangement. JJ's broken heart aside, I can't help but feel a little sorry for Alex. I am sure he pictured himself eventually marrying a Madonna, rather than the whore he's getting.

 

Good points about Claire and Marie. I hadn't really considered Claire's choice to support her husband's career rather than pursue her own. In a somewhat similar vein, it has always bothered me that JP and Isidore didn't insist that Armand finish his education before pursuing a career in Hollywood.

[PrivateTim]

It's possible that Claire's parents-in-law wouldn't have been cool with Claire being a "modern" woman, and she felt "encouraged" to follow Jack Hobart's mother's mode of being a socialite running charity/social functions rather than being a high-powered businesswoman like her own mother. It was the neo-conservative 1980's, in any event.

 

I wonder if Claire's willingess to conform is what made Marie the way she is- Marie comes off as somebody who really wants to be different and unique and cool. As in the opposite of her mother, who generally stuck with the status quo.

 

I never thought of Isidore as a "high powered" business woman. She ran a successful construction company, but she wasn't a hard bitten Leona Helmsly nor even a Martha Stewart.

 

I can't imagine Claire conforming to what her in-laws would want, Claire as always been very independent.

 

As to "neo-conservatism", you obviously have no idea what it means. The 1980s was the ascent of classical conservatism in the Goldwater/William F Buckley tradition. In the 1980s the neo-conservatives were still the Straussians, the anti-Soviet left, largely Jewish and mostly Democrats.

 

Marie at 16 has no idea what she wants any more than any other 16 year old.

[Mark Arbour]

As always, I find these discussions fascinating.   I thought I'd weigh in and toss out some CAP facts:

 

1.  Mary Ellen's trust should be worth somewhere in the vicinity of $500 Million, since it is comparable to Wade's.  When Nana escaped from Virginia and the nursing home hell, she explained that Mary Ellen (and Beau) didn't have that paternity clause in their trusts. 

 

2.  A British aristocrat would most likely view an American (any American) as being somewhat nouveau. 

 

3.  Matt inherited one-fourth of Robbie's interest in Anders-Hayes, which was sold for $15million.  His other big asset is the Google stock he got when he worked with Stef.  We have the ability to see how things play out, so unless Matt does something idiotic and sells it, it should be worth about $100 million when Google goes public. 

 

4.  If Mary Ellen had indeed been trying to have a child with Matt, her end motives would be different.  I can only imagine how much fun she'd have, constantly rubbing Wade's nose in the fact that his boyfriend fathered her child. 

Edited January 14, 2015 by Mark Arbour

[Mark Arbour]

I never thought of Isidore as a "high powered" business woman. She ran a successful construction company, but she wasn't a hard bitten Leona Helmsly nor even a Martha Stewart.

 

I can't imagine Claire conforming to what her in-laws would want, Claire as always been very independent.

 

As to "neo-conservatism", you obviously have no idea what it means. The 1980s was the ascent of classical conservatism in the Goldwater/William F Buckley tradition. In the 1980s the neo-conservatives were still the Straussians, the anti-Soviet left, largely Jewish and mostly Democrats.

 

Marie at 16 has no idea what she wants any more than any other 16 year old.

 

Excellent points. 

 

Just because Claire has not taken a "high-powered" job doesn't mean she can't be influential, and it doesn't mean she's a glorified housewife.  Claire has always been more subtle.  She's not so much a driven leader, as someone who will make course corrections to keep the ship from sinking. 

 

And TIm is right...we have no idea what Marie will or won't do in the future. 

[methodwriter85]

 

I never thought of Isidore as a "high powered" business woman. She ran a successful construction company, but she wasn't a hard bitten Leona Helmsly nor even a Martha Stewart.

 

*shrugs* RIght. I just thought it might be an interesting daughter/mother conflict. I've had at least four feminist teachers/professors/courses in my life, so I pulled it out of thoughts of Title IX and Women's Lib and Women Going into The White-Collar Workforce, etc etc etc.

 

The only woman we've seen that you could actually call high-powered business woman would be ABC, right? Or am I missing somebody?

 

As for being 16, you're right, although Marie keeps screaming "future hipster" to me. I know at 16, I wanted to be a Broadway actor...unfortunately I can't sing or dance so that dream fell away quickly, LOL.The only teenagers who know what they want to do are JJ and Zach in this story, but they've both in something you can't really do over the age of 35. (30 for JJ.)

Edited January 14, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Bucket1]

 

I completely agree that Alex's title is the most attractive thing about him.

 

I think JJ would disagree

[mmike1969]

I can relate. What I wanted at 16 and almost went to college for vs reality -->

 

Me @ 16 (1986): I wanted to work with computers and help others embrace the future! I was even TA in high school Intro to Computers. Probation Dept actually wanted me to go to Juvenile Hall and show the wards and Officers there how their "new" computer lab works. I didn't have a problem with that (parents did though).

 

Me @ 23: God damn idiots and their inability to insert the floppy disc in the correct way, turn on the fuc@@n monitor, or figure out how the paper is inserted into the traction feed printer. learn how to type too. I does not take 30 minutes to type up a memo using WordStar and save it to disc.

 

Marie Hobart: I can see her as a correspondent to CNN at about the time Darius is on his second tour in Afganistsn.

Edited January 14, 2015 by mmike1969

[methodwriter85]

I think JJ would disagree

 

    He wouldn't admit it, but more than anything, but Alex's title and "good breeding" is what attracts JJ to him. JJ is the ultimate snob, who comes from a family that's almost top echelon (not quite the Kennedy family, but close) in America. Therefore, most American men and women aren't going to be "good" enough for him. But Alex with his title and air of British nobility manages to be "better" than JJ, so therefore that makes JJ want him.

 

     Of course, after the initial attraction, the fact that Alex treats JJ like his princess is what keeps JJ coming back for more. JJ very much wants to be on someone's pedestal.

 

 

Marie Hobart: I can see her as a correspondent to CNN at about the time Darius is on his second tour in Afganistsn.

 

I just can't see her taking the Claire route, that's all I'm saying. She does not strike me as someone who would be content to become a married socialite running in the Junior League like her mother. Note how getting her to do Cotillion was like prying teeth. I can't say exactly what route/future I see Marie having, but that particular one would contradict everything we've come to know about her character. It would be like JJ deciding to become a nursery school teacher.

 

I kind of like the idea of Marie going the Anderson Cooper route. I always thought it was funny that Anderson Cooper is basically American Royalty, and he chose to become a war correspondent. I loved it when Oprah joked to him, "Why do you have a job?", because he's a freakin' Vanderbilt, after all.

 

 

Me @ 23: God damn idiots and their inability to insert the floppy disc in the correct way, turn on the fuc@@n monitor, or figure out how the paper is inserted into the traction feed printer. learn how to type too. I does not take 30 minutes to type up a memo and save it to disc.

 

Did you have a crisis when you hit 30 and think about alternate career paths because the one you wanted didn't pan out? Man, it sucks. LOL.

Edited January 14, 2015 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

    He wouldn't admit it, but more than anything, but Alex's title and "good breeding" is what attracts JJ to him.

 

Ummm, if JJ wouldn't admit it, how do you know it?

 

I don't recall any textual references to Alex's title that would suggest that was what JJ found attractive. I do seem to recall some passages where Alex physically turned JJ on.

[Headstall]

  " Of course, after the initial attraction, the fact that Alex treats JJ like his princess is what keeps JJ coming back for more. JJ very much wants to be on someone's pedestal." Quote from Methodwriter.

 

While I agree in principal with this, I think there is more to it. While I think Alex treats JJ as very special, the revelation that he bottoms for JJ, (didn't see that coming) puts their relationship in a different context for me. Alex has made a distinction here... in that he doesn't look at JJ as the princess that he appeared to consider Wade. That indicates a level of depth in their relationship that goes beyond either one's ego. This is not at all about adulation for JJ... he gets plenty of that through his skating. This is about opening up his heart to a man he relates to and loves... which makes what ME has done that much more painful to watch...for me anyway. Cheers...

[methodwriter85]

 

I don't recall any textual references to Alex's title that would suggest that was what JJ found attractive. I do seem to recall some passages where Alex physically turned JJ on.

 

 

 

     I'm going off of when Alex was introduced in Flux, and JJ was very much in deference to him, "Lord this" and "lord that." JJ is generally an asshole to people unless you give him a reason to like you, yet he was sucking up to Alex right off the bat. And I think that's largely to do with Alex's title. If you've noticed, JJ is very drawn to people that have power/superior status- he was like that with his coach, he was like that with Evan Lysacek when Evan won the Norway competition they were at while JJ bombed, and he's like that with Alex because Alex's title made him superior to JJ, which JJ finds attractive.

 

    Of course, it probably helps that Alex resembles Jamie Bamber. (Who just keeps getting hotter with age.) So we'll compromise and say it's title and good looks that were the initial draw.

 

     BTW, Private Tim...happy belated 38th birthday! Can't believe people born in the late 1970's are pushing 40 now...feels like you guys should still be in your late 20's. I'm jealous...40 seems like a pretty cool age, and you're almost there! Did you do anything fun?

Edited January 14, 2015 by methodwriter85

[impunity]

I completely agree that Alex's title is the most attractive thing about him.

Just to clarify, when I wrote this I was referring to Mary Ellen. It's true, JJ was enamored of Alex's title to begin with, and Alex may have found in JJ the virgin of his dreams, but they have both moved on from there. On the other hand, ME has spent less than a day with Alex: riding, shagging, and having dinner with Wade and Elizabeth. I doubt they've even had a real conversation. She probably sees a guy who is very much like most of the guys she grew up with (most of whom she has probably fucked), except that he comes with the opportunity of her becoming a countess then a marchioness and eventually a duchess. I think she'd quite like that.

Edited January 15, 2015 by impunity

[mmike1969]

Ch 38 & Brad:

Way to mess up a naval career.

If the Queen of England did not block Prince Harry's deployment to Afganistsn, who are you to block Darius (misguided ambitions or not).

 

I've seen many army promotions blocked over trivial BS and I've seen them blocked over "rumors" of favoritism. No deployments into a combat zone over years? Yeah, that looks suspicious to promotion boards.

 

Will: yes you are a hypocrite.

 

lord Al: yeah we get you are not loaded with £££ but you couldn't spend a quid for a pack of extra strength condoms?

 

Wade: Did you not expect drama? Where was your head at over the last few years?

 

Darius: I've seen MANY good officers and enlisted get booted after the drawdowns in the 90's, let alone the drawdowns after your first enlistment term.

[GLH]

I see many, many more chapters ahead, not to mention the storylines for at least two more books. <starts popping popcorn>

[PrivateTim]

  

     BTW, Private Tim...happy belated 38th birthday! Can't believe people born in the late 1970's are pushing 40 now...feels like you guys should still be in your late 20's. I'm jealous...40 seems like a pretty cool age, and you're almost there! Did you do anything fun?

 

Who's 38?? No one I know.....

[mmike1969]

Who's 38?? No one I know.....

Denial is a state of mind. Like celebrating my 25th birthday for the 20th time.

Edited January 16, 2015 by mmike1969

[Kitt]

Pvt Tim is only 29 (with 9 yrs experience)

[chrisg02]

(No luck in getting a review-text posted, so:)

The new plot-twist brings a theme partly out into the open, it's not a new theme in the saga, it's been visible but gone largely without comment before. It's the enormous powers that women have been exercising over these men's lives. Often the men have almost seemed to be clustering together in partial refuge. Alex emerged only once (that we could see) from the men-only enclave, he was entrapped, and he is now getting slammed. For the rest, the powers have been largely placated with great efforts. (For example, in an earlier phase of the saga, Wade seemed to need all of that family money to deal with Tiffany about access to Riley, suggesting an essential weakness in his position without it, while Tiffany herself had no such need.)