Q: when is the confederate flag not racist?

[JamesSavik]

Answer: When it has been made fabulous!

 

 

 

I'm tired of seeing this misunderstood symbol of the spirit of the south being used as a symbol of racism and bigotry. That's NOT what it was ever about.

 

The confederate flag was about making a stand for what you believe in. It's real meaning is courage. It is a legacy that should make us proud, not cringe in disgrace.

 

I like it better this way.

 

It's closer to the original intent because, to be gay in the south takes belief and courage.

 

Take it back. It's our legacy. It belongs to us.

[Valkyrie]

I wish I could 'like' your post 100 times!

[TetRefine]

Dear lord, if ever the Soapbox was needed for a spirited discussion on GA, it's this.

 

I'm going to disagree (rather strongly) about the "original" or "true" intent of the Confederate Battle Flag, but my argument is far too political for the politically correct, sensitive types who can't seem to take criticism or a different point of view (but James you certainly do not fit that category). 

 

So for now, I will keep my jaded, Northern Yankee city-slicker views to myself.

[Sasha Distan]

I've always liked the confederate flag, mostly because as flags go, it is a wonderful design. And that up there is definitely fabulous! 

 

I hate the way that it is used to make people feel guilty for the wrongs of their ancestors. It's like the use of the swastika, a perfectly innocent symbol, which is now only ever used to make the people of German feel uncomfortable for the history of their country.

In order not to get too political... people now should not be made to feel ashamed by actions in the past over which they had no control: we are not our parents.

 

It's a good flag. Take it back!

[Irritable1]

 

 

It's like the use of the swastika, a perfectly innocent symbol, which is now only ever used to make the people of German feel uncomfortable for the history of their country.

 

Well. It's also used for defacing Jewish graves and things. 

[TetRefine]

I've always liked the confederate flag, mostly because as flags go, it is a wonderful design. And that up there is definitely fabulous! 

 

I hate the way that it is used to make people feel guilty for the wrongs of their ancestors. It's like the use of the swastika, a perfectly innocent symbol, which is now only ever used to make the people of German feel uncomfortable for the history of their country.

In order not to get too political... people now should not be made to feel ashamed by actions in the past over which they had no control: we are not our parents.

 

It's a good flag. Take it back!

 

Southerners could get away from being made to feel guilty if they would stop using it as such a widespread symbol of the South in the modern day. Seriously, if you were a Jew, how comfortable would you be having to view the swastika, a symbol of the country that tried to wipe your kind off the face of the earth. Its the same with black people and the Confederate flag. Its a symbol of a government and people who fought to keep them enslaved and then continued to use it as a symbol to keep them as second class citizens until people with common sense stepped in and stop them. 

 

The South would still be keeping everyone who isn't a White Anglo-Protestant as second class if it weren't for federal (aka Northern) interference. Its why the South is far behind the rest of the country in civilized social policy. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by TetRefine

[Irritable1]

It can be reclaimed (or maybe just claimed) and this could be a good first step..

Edited February 1, 2015 by Irritable1

[Bill W]

James, I'm not sure your southern neighbors would see the rainbow colored Stars and Bars as being fabulous, but personally I find it quite attractive.  

[JamesSavik]

The fun part would be watching the rednecks see it, have strokes and keel over.

[Carlos Hazday]

Southerners could get away from being made to feel guilty if they would stop using it as such a widespread symbol of the South in the modern day. Seriously, if you were a Jew, how comfortable would you be having to view the swastika, a symbol of the country that tried to wipe your kind off the face of the earth. Its the same with black people and the Confederate flag. Its a symbol of a government and people who fought to keep them enslaved and then continued to use it as a symbol to keep them as second class citizens until people with common sense stepped in and stop them. 

 

The South would still be keeping everyone who isn't a White Anglo-Protestant as second class if it weren't for federal (aka Northern) interference. Its why the South is far behind the rest of the country in civilized social policy. 

 

I've been trying to be quiet but it's a losing cause. I will never view the Stars and Bars in a positive light and I'll never convince those that believe in it to stop doing so. Same with the Swastika, it's a constant reminder of my relatives who were murdered because of their religion. It may have been something else at one time but it's use by the Nazi regime ruined it for the rest of time. It should be relegated to historical uses. (I did see several of them during my visit to Yad Vashem, they were an integral part of the exhibit.)

 

We must then agree to disagree. I will note I dated a guy from Maryland for a while who one day showed up wearing a S&B bandana on his head. He refused to remove it before we went out to the bike night we were planning on attending--I suggested he find someone else to date.

[A.J.]

I believe James and many others have the best of intentions when they display/discuss the Confederate Flag, but I do not believe that the flag can be reclaimed as of yet.  First, I don't think all southerners agree on the meaning of the flag -- current or historical.  Second, the flag is still used by the ignorant amongst us to represent white supremacy, disregard for the law, bigotry, and reckless behavior.  Do not expect me to embrace a flag being used by some as a token representation of their ignorance just because you have a good feeling about it.

 

This should have been a blog entry.  I'd have enjoyed being more colorful with my response.

[JamesSavik]

I believe James and many others have the best of intentions when they display/discuss the Confederate Flag, but I do not believe that the flag can be reclaimed as of yet. 

 

 

I don't display the stars & bars in its traditional form. Many people find it offensive and I just wouldn't go there. Nor would I take common cause with the yahoos that want it to be a symbol of oppression.

 

I do think by adding the rainbow to that flag it would give enough of the old bigot crowd heart failure or strokes to make it.. satisfying.

[Celethiel]

Prettier than either of the originals

(i find both the gay flag and the star and bars flags ugly (and not in a moral sort of way))

 

I believe James and many others have the best of intentions when they display/discuss the Confederate Flag, but I do not believe that the flag can be reclaimed as of yet.  First, I don't think all southerners agree on the meaning of the flag -- current or historical.  Second, the flag is still used by the ignorant amongst us to represent white supremacy, disregard for the law, bigotry, and reckless behavior.  Do not expect me to embrace a flag being used by some as a token representation of their ignorance just because you have a good feeling about it.

 

This should have been a blog entry.  I'd have enjoyed being more colorful with my response.

oh you mean like several actors, and a couple of Singers, Justin Beiber and Charlie Sheen for instance.

[rustle]

I'd like to see this as a blog entry, too. Instead, I'll limit my comments.

 

The original design is striking, and I love it. I'd like this revision more if the rainbow went all the way down. Take that as you will. If I knew any skinheads, I'd love to put one on their trucks, to see how many colors of the rainbow they'd turn when they saw it.

 

At this point, I'm making a blog entry, so we can take off the kid gloves.

 

On second thought, no.

Edited February 5, 2015 by rustle

[Drak]

When I was a boy in third grade, my grandmother had persuaded me the old South had been a glorious and righteous heaven on earth for good people. The Klan was okay in the early days, a bunch of Confederate veterans trying to right wrongs, etc. The Civil War was a misnomer, it was actually the War of Northern Aggression. That is what she believed.

 

In art class at school, I painted the Confederate flag, because it seemed beautiful to me, and maybe it is objectively, just as the swastika taken by itself without any historical connotations. The teacher had each of us show our painting to the class, so I did. After class, a black girl who was on friendly terms with me looked at my work and only said, "I like your drawing," but did not make eye contact and didn't smile, and I felt funny about it. Later, when I got home, I talked about the flag and about history with my father. He did not agree with grandmother at all. I never drew the Confederate flag again, and I never thought the same about the old South. One reason to avoid the flag is that there are painful memories for people of color. It is kind to think about their feelings, and unkind to remind them of the past or give them any reason to suppose that we want to bring the problems of the past back into the present time. The flag was a war flag, and there were many deaths and much suffering in the war.

[PrivateTim]

I've been trying to be quiet but it's a losing cause. I will never view the Stars and Bars in a positive light

 

Except of course that the flag James posted isn't the Stars & Bars, this is:

 

 

In fact it wasn't even a flag of the confederacy. Here is the second national flag of the Confederacy.

 

 

The Southern Cross was a battle flag used early in the fighting and was square, not rectangular:

 

The flag that everyone associates with the Confederacy now, never was a flag of the Confederacy. It was used by some select armies as a battle flag, and the navy used it as an ensign, but was never in wide use despite the popular mythology.

[TetRefine]

[TetRefine]

[WestcliffWriter]

 

I'd be more worried about this flag!

[JamesSavik]

 

Yeah- a psycho dictator with a tiny dick and nukes is a lot scarier than my Rainbow Dixie flag.

[WestcliffWriter]

 

Yeah- a psycho dictator with a tiny dick and nukes is a lot scarier than my Rainbow Dixie flag.

 

PMSL!!!!

[Irritable1]

North Korea's got nothing to say to this, surely?

 

I think there's a valid point being made here... what's going to happen if the KKK take a look at the flag, think it makes a great recruiting tool given their falling #s, and start a chapter (or whatever it's called) that goes out to do their cross-burnings in rainbow robes? What then??? There's no requirement that gays have to be of any one political view.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Irritable1

[Ron]

There's no requirement that gays have to be of any one political view.

This is true. I once went home from the bar with a _________.   I still get the shivers when I think about it!

[Irritable1]

This is true. I once went home from the bar with a _________.   I still get the shivers when I think about it!

That good, huh? I once knew someone who'd been asked to play 'protestor' to her boyfriend's 'riot policeman'. never sinned across the aisle myself.