Dream Sequences

[Former Member]

I have been reading articles about writing dream sequences, and came across one that states there are some people who believe dream sequences are never relevant to storytelling. I don't agree with this, but would appreciate others opinions, whether negative or positive. 

[Wicked Witch]

I am unsure if the advice you read means just actual dreams, or flashbacks, visions and so forth which are technically under the definition of the writing technique called dream sequences. Flashbacks especially are useful, I will say. But dreams can also be important to a characters development to. Much like in media res, they're a legitimate technique in my mind.

 

I'm not always a fan of them, but they can be implemented quite well at times. I feel like it really has to be the appropriate time for them. Some stories wouldn't work without them as they really help to explore the psyche of the characters in those cases. 

[Former Member]

Thank you, Wicked Witch. 

[mastershakeme]

Oh pfft! Who the heck says dreams aren't relevant to storytelling! I used a dream sequence for the first time in my story a while ago. I didn't think about it, i just did it! I used the dream sequence to reveal just a tiny bit more of the scifi element of my story which has been under wraps since the beginning. It was also used a little like a Freddy Kruger scare

The only time I don't like dreams in stories is when the author tries, like really really tries, to get you to believe this dream is really happening, and then they pull the rug out from under you. That's not even fair!

 

[Former Member]

4 hours ago, mastershakeme said:

The only time I don't like dreams in stories is when the author tries, like really really tries, to get you to believe this dream is really happening, and then they pull the rug out from under you. That's not even fair!

Your are so right about that! It's a real cheap shot! 

 

Thanks for your response mastershakeme

[Wicked Witch]

9 hours ago, mastershakeme said:

Oh pfft! Who the heck says dreams aren't relevant to storytelling! I used a dream sequence for the first time in my story a while ago. I didn't think about it, i just did it! I used the dream sequence to reveal just a tiny bit more of the scifi element of my story which has been under wraps since the beginning. It was also used a little like a Freddy Kruger scare

The only time I don't like dreams in stories is when the author tries, like really really tries, to get you to believe this dream is really happening, and then they pull the rug out from under you. That's not even fair!

 

 

Agreed on that. It is a trope that is really popular in television, more than writing. But I hate the 'oh by the way, the last chapter/book/season was a dream" reveal. It's lazy writing in my opinion.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADream

Edited June 23, 2017 by Wicked Witch

[Brayon]

I recently used a Dream Sequence in Aeris, as the opening for Act 2 - Part 3. Our hero Aeris, was captured, and underneath a magical sleep spell which was designed to make the "sleeper" relive a memory. I took a scene from The House of Aeris story and twisted it to be the magical induced vision. I think I pulled it off well (no one has complained about it ), and I firmly believe that Dream Sequences are a legitimate form of expression in a story. Was planning on doing a couple of more, before Aeris' story is finished. Normally, I agree with the "Author trying to make this all real, then WHAM PLOT TWIST," is a turn-off, but seeing as that's sorta what I did, I think I would be hypocritical to say I hate it entirely.

 

I think the only time I dislike them is when they serve no purpose. Much like Tolkien and his "Gandolf sees a rock, and then goes on a twenty-page history lesson of how that rock got there."  I hate Tolkien, by the way. It's the one case where the Movies are a thousand times better than the books.

 

So, that's my two coppers on the subject, and I'm babbling like a brook right now.

[Former Member]

15 minutes ago, BHopper2 said:

I recently used a Dream Sequence in Aeris, as the opening for Act 2 - Part 3. Our hero Aeris, was captured, and underneath a magical sleep spell which was designed to make the "sleeper" relive a memory. I took a scene from The House of Aeris story and twisted it to be the magical induced vision. I think I pulled it off well (no one has complained about it ), and I firmly believe that Dream Sequences are a legitimate form of expression in a story. Was planning on doing a couple of more, before Aeris' story is finished. Normally, I agree with the "Author trying to make this all real, then WHAM PLOT TWIST," is a turn-off, but seeing as that's sorta what I did, I think I would be hypocritical to say I hate it entirely.

 

I think the only time I dislike them is when they serve no purpose. Much like Tolkien and his "Gandolf sees a rock, and then goes on a twenty-page history lesson of how that rock got there."  I hate Tolkien, by the way. It's the one case where the Movies are a thousand times better than the books.

 

So, that's my two coppers on the subject, and I'm babbling like a brook right now.

Thanks for your response. And by the way...I babble on all the time! 

[Carlos Hazday]

Mann threatened me with bodily harm if I ever use one. I can see them if dreams are an essential part of the story but otherwise it's iffy.

[Defiance19]

29 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Mann threatened me with bodily harm if I ever use one. I can see them if dreams are an essential part of the story but otherwise it's iffy.

Like, which part of your story could ever be a dream? Forget Mann the readers would string you up... 

[Former Member]

36 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Mann threatened me with bodily harm if I ever use one. I can see them if dreams are an essential part of the story but otherwise it's iffy.

Do you think it's acceptable for a horror story? 

[Carlos Hazday]

9 minutes ago, Defiance19 said:

Like, which part of your story could ever be a dream? Forget Mann the readers would string you up... 

 

Ummm, I guess CJ never having visited Australia is a no go.

 

 

1 minute ago, R J Drew said:

Do you think it's acceptable for a horror story? 

 

Sure, I can see them in any story. It just has to fit. Off the top of my head, a character has nightmares as part of PTSD. A dream leads a character to some specific action. Those can work. I would never use a dream as a way of revealing something important though, a good writer should be able to figure out a better way to bring things up. I'm rambling! Never say never, RJ. A dream sequence can work if used right. And forget the Dallas approach of negating something by claiming it was a dream. That just ain't right.

[Former Member]

38 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

 

Ummm, I guess CJ never having visited Australia is a no go.

 

 

 

Sure, I can see them in any story. It just has to fit. Off the top of my head, a character has nightmares as part of PTSD. A dream leads a character to some specific action. Those can work. I would never use a dream as a way of revealing something important though, a good writer should be able to figure out a better way to bring things up. I'm rambling! Never say never, RJ. A dream sequence can work if used right. And forget the Dallas approach of negating something by claiming it was a dream. That just ain't right.

LOL I remember the Dallas dream sequence. Thanks for your input Carlos. 

[Hudson Bartholomew]

I think there has to be a reason why the character dreams. Like @Carlos Hazday said, someone with PTSD has nightmares because it's a central part of his/her character and is part of the conflict that he/she needs to overcome (spoiler: I've just finished a story with this premise ). Another scenario is if someone suddenly starts dreaming things that are usual and they become like visions into a future or some mystery. I don't know, I'm brainstorming now. I guess I'm saying that the dreams must serve a purpose, have to be central to the storytelling, not just a way to reveal information because it's convenient. Same thing with flashbacks. Also, flashbacks are not the same as a character remembering specific memories. You can describe how a character remembers something without having to go into full flashback mode. 

[Wicked Witch]

I feel like one of the good times to use flashbacks is for a traumatic experience. It just rarely has the same impact describing what the present time character feels about the thing that happened to them, if its really a bit part of their personality, issues or how they handle something. Show us what happened and it can be very powerful. You don't have to be too detailed, or sometimes detail is good.

I must say, and it may make me a poorer writer in some peoples eyes, but there are no such things as rules in writing. Just guidelines. That can bent or broken, because writing is so vast a field there is always going to be a situation where it is appropriate to go outside those guidelines.

[mastershakeme]

15 hours ago, Wicked Witch said:

 

Agreed on that. It is a trope that is really popular in television, more than writing. But I hate the 'oh by the way, the last chapter/book/season was a dream" reveal. It's lazy writing in my opinion.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADream

 

OMG!!! That link is awesome Wicked Witch! ROFL!

15 hours ago, BHopper2 said:

I recently used a Dream Sequence in Aeris, as the opening for Act 2 - Part 3. Our hero Aeris, was captured, and underneath a magical sleep spell which was designed to make the "sleeper" relive a memory. I took a scene from The House of Aeris story and twisted it to be the magical induced vision. I think I pulled it off well (no one has complained about it ), and I firmly believe that Dream Sequences are a legitimate form of expression in a story. Was planning on doing a couple of more, before Aeris' story is finished. Normally, I agree with the "Author trying to make this all real, then WHAM PLOT TWIST," is a turn-off, but seeing as that's sorta what I did, I think I would be hypocritical to say I hate it entirely.

 

I think the only time I dislike them is when they serve no purpose. Much like Tolkien and his "Gandolf sees a rock, and then goes on a twenty-page history lesson of how that rock got there."  I hate Tolkien, by the way. It's the one case where the Movies are a thousand times better than the books.

 

So, that's my two coppers on the subject, and I'm babbling like a brook right now.

 

@BHopper2 Ahhhh! I'm def not complaing about your dream sequence.... lol, I just saw Nic Cage's Next the other day where the whole seond half of the movie was a flipping dream! Oops. Spoiler alert! 

 

I thought I was a rebel for thinking Tolkien's books aren't the best examples of writing... Yay! I'm not alone! Love the movies! But I'm pretty sure i heard a teacher say that too once. That Tolkin wasn't actually a writer, he just had a grand idea for a story... Anyways! I'm not here to judge  

11 hours ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Mann threatened me with bodily harm if I ever use one. I can see them if dreams are an essential part of the story but otherwise it's iffy.

 

I hear ya... I'm not going to overdo it. But then again! i think i have an actual event planned to happen that my main character will think is a dream...  ROFl!

 

 

 

[mastershakeme]

10 hours ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Sure, I can see them in any story. It just has to fit. Off the top of my head, a character has nightmares as part of PTSD. A dream leads a character to some specific action. Those can work. I would never use a dream as a way of revealing something important though, a good writer should be able to figure out a better way to bring things up. I'm rambling! Never say never, RJ. A dream sequence can work if used right. And forget the Dallas approach of negating something by claiming it was a dream. That just ain't right.

 

These are all really good tips... I guess dreams, like any tool in writing, can be overused, overplayed, and well, cliched as hell  So, use with caution!

 

You should go ahead and challenge yourself with a dream sequence  Or am I going to get you in trouble?? Sorry! I'll be quiet!

[Former Member]

10 hours ago, Hudson Bartholomew said:

I think there has to be a reason why the character dreams. Like @Carlos Hazday said, someone with PTSD has nightmares because it's a central part of his/her character and is part of the conflict that he/she needs to overcome (spoiler: I've just finished a story with this premise ). Another scenario is if someone suddenly starts dreaming things that are usual and they become like visions into a future or some mystery. I don't know, I'm brainstorming now. I guess I'm saying that the dreams must serve a purpose, have to be central to the storytelling, not just a way to reveal information because it's convenient. Same thing with flashbacks. Also, flashbacks are not the same as a character remembering specific memories. You can describe how a character remembers something without having to go into full flashback mode. 

Thanks! 

[Former Member]

1 hour ago, mastershakeme said:

 

These are all really good tips... I guess dreams, like any tool in writing, can be overused, overplayed, and well, cliched as hell  So, use with caution!

 

You should go ahead and challenge yourself with a dream sequence  Or am I going to get you in trouble?? Sorry! I'll be quiet!

Carlos in trouble? 

[Carlos Hazday]

1 hour ago, mastershakeme said:

 

These are all really good tips... I guess dreams, like any tool in writing, can be overused, overplayed, and well, cliched as hell  So, use with caution!

 

You should go ahead and challenge yourself with a dream sequence  Or am I going to get you in trouble?? Sorry! I'll be quiet!

 

You read Def's post. Readers may try to make me disappear if I do! Anyway, I've written 1/2 a million words for the story without a dream, I thinhk I can manage the remaining 1/4 million without it. Maybe after I'm done with CJ and the rest of my gang. sequence

[mastershakeme]

14 hours ago, Carlos Hazday said:

 

You read Def's post. Readers may try to make me disappear if I do! Anyway, I've written 1/2 a million words for the story without a dream, I thinhk I can manage the remaining 1/4 million without it. Maybe after I'm done with CJ and the rest of my gang. sequence

 

Yes I did!!! 

 

I'm still kinda new around here, so I'm always surprised by how... Outspoken the readers are here 

 

You've got some feisty friends!

[robertlee]

I always come in at the end of discussions on here but I might be the only one who thinks the rule about dreams might be right. Any book I've read with a dream sequence had the opposite effect the author was going for. If they were using it to reveal something the character couldn't in the real world it kind of just drag the story down. It paused the action and took me out of the story. I'm all about being immersed in a story and when something takes me out of it I have a lot of trouble getting back into it. 

 

Maybe I've had bad experiences with it though. I see a lot of the points people are making about how it can be used as part of the plot so maybe I just need more experiences with it working well. Who knows. I do agree though when you're writing forget about the rules, at least in a first draft, and just write what comes to your mind. If that involves a dream sequence use it and then see how it feels once you're editing.

[Former Member]

1 hour ago, robertlee said:

I do agree though when you're writing forget about the rules, at least in a first draft, and just write what comes to your mind. If that involves a dream sequence use it and then see how it feels once you're editing.

That sounds like a good idea. Thanks robertlee

[MrM]

I make use of them in certain contexts, particularly if I am dealing with a supernatural subject. I also use them to get into the mind of the character you are reading if they are speaking from first person. You can tell who a person by what they dream, sometimes.

 

I would avoid using clichéd uses of dreams as a crutch for plots if there are better and more tangible ways for the character to get from 'here to there' without a dream sequence. Dreams are like asides in theatre. Those points in a play where a narrator takes the audience aside and kind of explains the roots of what's going on. They are not in direct context of the story because they aren't 'real'. Only at certain times can dream be considered 'real'.

[Former Member]

40 minutes ago, MrM said:

I make use of them in certain contexts, particularly if I am dealing with a supernatural subject. I also use them to get into the mind of the character you are reading if they are speaking from first person. You can tell who a person by what they dream, sometimes.

 

I would avoid using clichéd uses of dreams as a crutch for plots if there are better and more tangible ways for the character to get from 'here to there' without a dream sequence. Dreams are like asides in theatre. Those points in a play where a narrator takes the audience aside and kind of explains the roots of what's going on. They are not in direct context of the story because they aren't 'real'. Only at certain times can dream be considered 'real'.

Very interesting MrM, thanks for your input.