Should I Or Should I Not?

[TetRefine]

I'll try to keep this short and sweet.

 

I have a younger brother who is 15. Up until this past January, me and my brother had a really good relationship and always got along really well. We used to always do things together and I would always watch out for him. He ment the most to me of any other person. But then he began smoking the occassional joint around age 13. I knew he was doing it, but since he only did it once in a while all I did was tell him he shouldn't do it and left it at that because I didn't want to get him in trouble. Boy was that a big mistake!

 

As time went on, he started to become such a user that he smoked every single day and would always come home high. My parents were completly oblivious to this fact and I kept on trying to hint it to them, but not say it outright. Well, they still didn't get it. He started to become angry all the time and that led to constant arguements with my parents and my house became a very unpleasent place to be. He then completly shut me out and stopped talking to me. Well, then everything hit a low point on my birthday. He got into an arguement with my parents and he sucker punched my dad. When I saw that I lost it and jumped on top of him. Long story short, I ended up with three broken knuckles, him a broken nose, my mom sobbing, and two cop cars outside our house. It was the single worst moment in my life.

 

After that incident, we completly ignored each other and each held a deep hatred, and yes, I mean hatred, for each other. I went through a period of intense hate that I had never experienced before, followed by a feeling of sorrow, and then finally the feeling of wanting to make things better. I'm afraid that since I'm leaving soon, this whole mess will be left unfinished and become unfixable. I really want the old days of my brother and me to come back, but I know they wont until I take the initiative, because he's not mature enough to understand all this yet. I still love him and that is why this is the most important goal of mine to accomplish.

 

So I guess what I'm asking is: Does anyone have any advice on how to at least breach the subject with him? I think things have calmed down a lot since all this, but I'm still kind of lost/scared/nervous as hell about doing this. Any advice would be extremly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

-Matt

 

 

[Fishwings]

I'll try to keep this short and sweet.

 

I have a younger brother who is 15. Up until this past January, me and my brother had a really good relationship and always got along really well. We used to always do things together and I would always watch out for him. He ment the most to me of any other person. But then he began smoking the occassional joint around age 13. I knew he was doing it, but since he only did it once in a while all I did was tell him he shouldn't do it and left it at that because I didn't want to get him in trouble. Boy was that a big mistake!

 

As time went on, he started to become such a user that he smoked every single day and would always come home high. My parents were completly oblivious to this fact and I kept on trying to hint it to them, but not say it outright. Well, they still didn't get it. He started to become angry all the time and that led to constant arguements with my parents and my house became a very unpleasent place to be. He then completly shut me out and stopped talking to me. Well, then everything hit a low point on my birthday. He got into an arguement with my parents and he sucker punched my dad. When I saw that I lost it and jumped on top of him. Long story short, I ended up with three broken knuckles, him a broken nose, my mom sobbing, and two cop cars outside our house. It was the single worst moment in my life.

 

After that incident, we completly ignored each other and each held a deep hatred, and yes, I mean hatred, for each other. I went through a period of intense hate that I had never experienced before, followed by a feeling of sorrow, and then finally the feeling of wanting to make things better. I'm afraid that since I'm leaving soon, this whole mess will be left unfinished and become unfixable. I really want the old days of my brother and me to come back, but I know they wont until I take the initiative, because he's not mature enough to understand all this yet. I still love him and that is why this is the most important goal of mine to accomplish.

 

So I guess what I'm asking is: Does anyone have any advice on how to at least breach the subject with him? I think things have calmed down a lot since all this, but I'm still kind of lost/scared/nervous as hell about doing this. Any advice would be extremly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

-Matt

 

 

 

 

That is tough.

 

I have a brother too, and I can't say we get along well either. We'll regularly get into screaming matches and he even threatened me with weapons before.

 

However, things have been better. The thing is to admit your mistakes.

 

Apologize first, whether you believe you were more right and he was more wrong or whatever the hell. Then talk. If your brother senses any resentment/hostility coming from you, chances are he'll shut you off again. Make a compromise, or just talk for the sake of old times. If you don't he may resent you forever.

 

Best of Luck mang

[Cia]

This is a tough topic. You seem to blame yourself for not stepping in when he started smoking, but it's not that simple. Children who do drugs, especially that early, can be really stubborn and sneaky about it. I was one of them, so I am not just spouting crap. Anyways, I agree with FW up there, apologize for the incident that occured, even though/if you are not to blame. As you say he is not old enough to come to these realizations that you have on his own. Perhaps you guys can repair some form of relationship before you leave. Don't worry it won't be unfixable even if not. I didn't become friends with my sister until we both left home, about 8 months apart. Adulthood seems to be the great equalizer. As for the drug use, I would say that you could try to talk about it but if he isn't ready to stop he won't. So don't blame yourself if you can't get through to him on that topic. Big hugs..I hope things work out for you!!

 

Cia

 

 

[NightOwl88]

I can't say i know exactly what you are going through, my older brother and I never got along, kids or adults. The question you posed in the title Should I or Should I not is easy, you should. I speak from experiance, if you let this stuff seep and fester in your relationship you'll regret it.

 

My advice isn't much different then anyone elses you've had so far. Appologize for the fight that occured, make sure he knows that you still love him and tell him you want things to be better between the two of you again. If he gets angry or hostile don't respond in kind, don't ignore the fact that he's angry but don't respond out of anger. If things don't go well the first time then tell him that you'll always be there for him if he needs to talk, let things settle for a bit then try again. Always be as positive as you can be, if he insults you accept it and move on, if he threatens you don't show fear, and if he attacks you walk away, but always make sure he knows you still care.

 

Best Wishes,

Nightowl88.

[abbillion]

I have an older sister and we constantly fight, but we were taught to ignore a problem until it blows over. Don't do that. This is serious. I would tell your parents everything and sit down and make sure he understands that you love him and that you don't judge him, but that this addiction can destroy his life.

 

Don't allow it to get physical. Walk away before that happens, but make him see that you DO love and that he means so much to you.

 

Most kids that age act out when they feel abandoned or don't get enough love and attention.

 

That is what I would do, but I don't really know your family. I hope whatever you decide to do works out!

 

Good luck!

 

 

[Mark Arbour]

Some questions:

 

1. Does he still live with you? And how do you interact on an daily basis?

2. The behavior you describe, the anger and violence, aren't characteristics of people who are smoking pot. Could he be on Meth or steroids?

 

 

And a comment:

 

It sounds to me like you really miss him. Maybe you should tell him that as an ice-breaker.

[Zeoanne]

I agree with what Mark said about the violent behavior not being the cause of smoking pot. I did it for many many years and was never a violent person even though I've always had an extremely short fuse. I believe there has to be something deeper than that. I'd suggest that after you both make peace try to have him open up to you, hopefully he'll confide in you what is troubling him.

 

Question: does he know you're gay? If so, how does he feel about it? Perhaps his so called friends are giving him a hard time about it?

Good luck honey and I hope it all works out for you.

[Nephylim]

Life is short and brutal. I anything happened to your brother and you hadn't at least tried to make up you would never forgive yourself... so do it.

 

There is no easy way to broach something like this. The advice you have been given is all good... just tell him how you feel. If he can't accept it maybe he will remember it and one day he will be ready.

[TetRefine]

First off, I want to sincerly thank everyone who has posted on this. I literally didn't get any sleep last night as I stayed up all night thinking about all this and spent the entire day at school rethinking it. I've decided on what I'm gonna do. I'm going to sit down with him somewhere quiet and away from the house and tell him everything. I'm gonna apologize like you guys suggested and tell him that I still very much care for him and don't want to end up as "the guy with the brother who he hasn't seen in 20 years".

 

But the biggest thing I'm going to tell him is that I'm gay. He doesn't know it yet and I hope by telling him that that he will realize that I told him that in absolute trust because there are very few people that know and I have a hard time with telling people. So all I can do is pray for the best and hope that he understands. I think he wants everything to be fixed but he just won't admit it or can't figure out how to do it.

 

And to answer Mark and Rush's questions.

 

Does he still live with you/how do you interact? Characteristics Doesn't Seem Like Just Pot? Yeah he still lives with me under the same roof, but we have not said a word to each other nor acknowledged each other's existance for 10 months almost. And to the pot thing, I highly doubt that he is on anything else, but more that there is something troubling him that he won't say. The pot is just something he hides behind. Not communicating problems and holding them in until they explode is something him and I both have a problem with. But I hope to change all that!

 

Does he know I'm gay/how will he react? Like I said above, I'm pretty sure he has no clue. As to how he will react, I think he will be surprised since I'm not in any way a stereotyped gay guy, but I don't think he will react negatively because he's not that type of person. But he won't go around telling everyone he has a out and proud gay brother because where I live, homosexuality is looked down upon a lot because the majority of the people are uneducated/uncultured hillbillies.

 

Again, you have no idea how grateful I am to get advice from all you guys/gals. Thank you so much!

[Cia]

Good for you. I hope all goes well during your talk. You know you can always chat it out or pm me if ya need to vent... Fingers crossed

 

Cia

 

 

[Nephylim]

First off, I want to sincerly thank everyone who has posted on this. I literally didn't get any sleep last night as I stayed up all night thinking about all this and spent the entire day at school rethinking it. I've decided on what I'm gonna do. I'm going to sit down with him somewhere quiet and away from the house and tell him everything. I'm gonna apologize like you guys suggested and tell him that I still very much care for him and don't want to end up as "the guy with the brother who he hasn't seen in 20 years".

 

But the biggest thing I'm going to tell him is that I'm gay. He doesn't know it yet and I hope by telling him that that he will realize that I told him that in absolute trust because there are very few people that know and I have a hard time with telling people. So all I can do is pray for the best and hope that he understands. I think he wants everything to be fixed but he just won't admit it or can't figure out how to do it.

 

And to answer Mark and Rush's questions.

 

Does he still live with you/how do you interact? Characteristics Doesn't Seem Like Just Pot? Yeah he still lives with me under the same roof, but we have not said a word to each other nor acknowledged each other's existance for 10 months almost. And to the pot thing, I highly doubt that he is on anything else, but more that there is something troubling him that he won't say. The pot is just something he hides behind. Not communicating problems and holding them in until they explode is something him and I both have a problem with. But I hope to change all that!

 

Does he know I'm gay/how will he react? Like I said above, I'm pretty sure he has no clue. As to how he will react, I think he will be surprised since I'm not in any way a stereotyped gay guy, but I don't think he will react negatively because he's not that type of person. But he won't go around telling everyone he has a out and proud gay brother because where I live, homosexuality is looked down upon a lot because the majority of the people are uneducated/uncultured hillbillies.

 

Again, you have no idea how grateful I am to get advice from all you guys/gals. Thank you so much!

 

 

Good luck. For what it's worth my thoughts and blessings are with you.

 

Please let us know how it went.

[JamesSavik]

This is a lose/lose situation:

• You lose if you confront him.
  
• You lose if you tell your folks that you know that he has been getting high for some time.
  
• You lose if you allow it to continue and it gets worse.
  

 

Your decision is what you are willing to lose and for how long.

 

Don't expect the Disney after school special outcome. This is real life and rosy, bullshit propaganda won't help you.

 

What generally happens when kids this age are fingered for using weed/drugs, they are sent to the most expensive drug treatment that your families insurance can afford and it will not work. The only time people quit doing drugs is when they've had enough consequences and young teens have the worst 2 year clean stats of any other demographic.

 

OK- here's what you need to do: you've got to catch him cold- busted with the goods.

 

This will give you and your family the ammunition that you need to move forward.

 

Next- rehab: DO NOT, repeat DO NOT go for a faith based rehab. They are bullshit, long term facilities which charge insurance and then warehouse kids out in the boon docks far away from civilization with no certified staff, just Jesus freaks telling them to pray away their problems. These rehabs are scams and we are working on getting their federal funding pulled. There have been suicides and molestation in them- as they are run by churches or church fronts, they are exempt from a lot of the documentation and certification requirements that other health care facilities are required to produce. Their staff does not even go though a state background check.

 

The best, most successful rehabs are based on 12-step programs. Others can not boast the numbers or the long term success but they try. Don't fall for it.

 

There are no easy answers. Steer clear of people that try to tell you that there are. This is going to be a very long battle so dig in, study/learn and expect it to be unpleasant.

 

When things are coming out, don't be surprised if your own dirty laundry is dragged out for inspection.

[TetRefine]

This is a lose/lose situation:

• You lose if you confront him.
• You lose if you tell your folks that you know that he has been getting high for some time.
• You lose if you allow it to continue and it gets worse.

 

Your decision is what you are willing to lose and for how long.

 

Don't expect the Disney after school special outcome. This is real life and rosy, bullshit propaganda won't help you.

 

What generally happens when kids this age are fingered for using weed/drugs, they are sent to the most expensive drug treatment that your families insurance can afford and it will not work. The only time people quit doing drugs is when they've had enough consequences and young teens have the worst 2 year clean stats of any other demographic.

 

OK- here's what you need to do: you've got to catch him cold- busted with the goods.

 

This will give you and your family the ammunition that you need to move forward.

 

Next- rehab: DO NOT, repeat DO NOT go for a faith based rehab. They are bullshit, long term facilities which charge insurance and then warehouse kids out in the boon docks far away from civilization with no certified staff, just Jesus freaks telling them to pray away their problems. These rehabs are scams and we are working on getting their federal funding pulled. There have been suicides and molestation in them- as they are run by churches or church fronts, they are exempt from a lot of the documentation and certification requirements that other health care facilities are required to produce. Their staff does not even go though a state background check.

 

The best, most successful rehabs are based on 12-step programs. Others can not boast the numbers or the long term success but they try. Don't fall for it.

 

There are no easy answers. Steer clear of people that try to tell you that there are. This is going to be a very long battle so dig in, study/learn and expect it to be unpleasant.

 

When things are coming out, don't be surprised if your own dirty laundry is dragged out for inspection.

 

Believe me, my parents tried sending him to rehab, but they went and talked to the cops and they said that they have to first put him on probation and all this other bulls**t. That was my parent's first choice. And no, I do not expect everything to be the same right off the bat and I realize it's gonna take a while and it might no always be pretty. But I have a more optomistic view of what's going to happen. Also, my parents would never send him to faith based rehab, because as you said, it's a joke. Luckily for us there's a top rated rehab facility just 25 minutes from where we live. So when it does come to that point, and yes I believe it will, he'll be in good hands.

 

Again, many thanks to everybody!

[John Galaor]

I'll try to keep this short and sweet.

 

I have a younger brother who is 15. Up until this past January, me and my brother had a really good relationship and always got along really well. We used to always do things together and I would always watch out for him. He ment the most to me of any other person. But then he began smoking the occassional joint around age 13. I knew he was doing it, but since he only did it once in a while all I did was tell him he shouldn't do it and left it at that because I didn't want to get him in trouble. Boy was that a big mistake!

 

As time went on, he started to become such a user that he smoked every single day and would always come home high. My parents were completly oblivious to this fact and I kept on trying to hint it to them, but not say it outright. Well, they still didn't get it. He started to become angry all the time and that led to constant arguements with my parents and my house became a very unpleasent place to be. He then completly shut me out and stopped talking to me. Well, then everything hit a low point on my birthday. He got into an arguement with my parents and he sucker punched my dad. When I saw that I lost it and jumped on top of him. Long story short, I ended up with three broken knuckles, him a broken nose, my mom sobbing, and two cop cars outside our house. It was the single worst moment in my life.

 

After that incident, we completly ignored each other and each held a deep hatred, and yes, I mean hatred, for each other. I went through a period of intense hate that I had never experienced before, followed by a feeling of sorrow, and then finally the feeling of wanting to make things better. I'm afraid that since I'm leaving soon, this whole mess will be left unfinished and become unfixable. I really want the old days of my brother and me to come back, but I know they wont until I take the initiative, because he's not mature enough to understand all this yet. I still love him and that is why this is the most important goal of mine to accomplish.

 

So I guess what I'm asking is: Does anyone have any advice on how to at least breach the subject with him? I think things have calmed down a lot since all this, but I'm still kind of lost/scared/nervous as hell about doing this. Any advice would be extremly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

-Matt

 

 

 

This is a complex situation. At 15, the story of angry behavior can be rather... old. I am a sort of expert in "behavior Modification", but not a professional. I mean I had studied the subject about 15 years ago. I have studied carefully about 8 or 10 books on "Behavior Modification".

 

So, for what you were telling, this behavior of your brother has been conditioned outside home. For you do not tell us of any incidence of fighting at home but the last one or so.

 

Well, someone can be conditioned to be bad tempered outside his home, and you cannot do anything about this condition. I mean, the agents that are affecting the behavior of your brother

are not under your control.

Perhaps, his angry mood is related to debts he have to pay. For the drugs, even mild drugs, like marijuana, are not any cheap. It is no they are not cheap, but they should be consumed almost daily. So, when he is with withdrawal symptoms, he would feel angry, moody, or prone to show a bad attitude.

 

But in general, the best approach to a bad or moody attitude is to ignore the behavior.

This is contrariwise to the general attitude of most people.

In general, people wait till his child or his brother is having a bad attitude to have a chat with him, and tell him this or that speech.

The idea of Behavior modification is that "words have an effect similar to conditioned reinforcers". That is, words do reinforce the frequency of behavior we want to downplay.

 

So, the best approach is the contrary. You have to ignore the first signs of bad behavior, as if you were not aware of it. Only when the behavior is outright aggressive or dangerous, you have to actuate to stop it.

 

Then, if the advice is not to take notice of moody behavior. But you should have to act often, with words and signs of friendship, when the person looks like normal, or shows an indifferent mood.

The general idea of Behavior Modification is that reinforcers should increase the frequency of the good behavior, or at least the frequency of the indifferent mood, to make it occur more and more frequently.

 

The reinforcers should be not only words, or a friendly chat. You should also use other more powerful reinforcers, like sweets, beer, or any thing you know he likes. You should invite him to a bar to have a beer, or to movies, or should you rent a video disc that your suppose he would like, and all this.

These reinforcers should be used, when the behavior is normal, or at least indifferent. But not when your brother looks angry or depressed.

Most of the symptoms of depression and the blue mood are usually reinforced at home, by people who think that the sad or moody person needs help. Of course he needs help. But this is no the best way to help him.

 

This I am saying is totally contrary to what people is doing in these situations.

So, you probably do not understand or you do not agree with what I am saying. If you do not agree with me, I beg your forgiveness. And this is the end of my post.

If you do not understand well what I am saying, you can asked me what part you did not understand.

 

Yours truly,

John Galaor

Edited October 27, 2009 by John Galaor

[tomon]

Just my thoughts on it:

 

I speak from going through something very similar with my older brother. I personally think cannabis affects different people in different ways and although many users of it defend it, I know many who have said they were fine until they started smoking it and then their behaviour and personality changed to someone much darker. Fine during the actual smoking of it as like people mentioned, you aren't violent when you smoke it, but the day after they'd be moody and irritable and downright strange. After a few years, it really seemed to affect that person. Personally I think this happpened to my brother.

 

Our relationship seemed to be similar to yours, it wasn't great and a few times we had full blown arguments and fights that lead to him leaving the house for a while.

 

Realising I was going to Japan and not going to see him for a year I thought it best to talk about it. And so we managed to convince him to come back for a short talk, we said "each person gets 20 minutes to say what they want, what they think and no interrupting". It kinda worked. There was a lot of awkwardness, a lot of stuff nobody wanted to hear coming out. He talked a lot about how I made him feel, and I spoke in turn for how I felt he made home a hard place to be. But in the end as the summer went on, we managed to keep making an effort to talk and as much as my relationship with my brother will never be the best, i can now happily say for the first time in years its a positive one (for now).

 

I know it's hard to actually start something like that but maybe your parents can initiate it. I think my mum just went for the simple "You know we all need to talk don't you?" in the parent kind of way. It's uncomfortable but there's no way the relationship will get better, nor will anything change for your brother unless you go back to the beginning and see how it began to deteriorate.

 

Oh and make sure you don't ever use any language like "you have a problem", "you changed" etc. Every sentence needs to start with "For me," "Personally" "I'm not saying you mean to act like this but I find you..." etc.

 

Please let me know how, if anything happens, it goes. This is a topic that I find hits very close to home.

[John Galaor]

I'll try to keep this short and sweet.

 

I have a younger brother who is 15. Up until this past January, me and my brother had a really good relationship and always got along really well. We used to always do things together and I would always watch out for him. He ment the most to me of any other person. But then he began smoking the occassional joint around age 13. I knew he was doing it, but since he only did it once in a while all I did was tell him he shouldn't do it and left it at that because I didn't want to get him in trouble. Boy was that a big mistake!

 

As time went on, he started to become such a user that he smoked every single day and would always come home high. My parents were completly oblivious to this fact and I kept on trying to hint it to them, but not say it outright. Well, they still didn't get it. He started to become angry all the time and that led to constant arguements with my parents and my house became a very unpleasent place to be. He then completly shut me out and stopped talking to me. Well, then everything hit a low point on my birthday. He got into an arguement with my parents and he sucker punched my dad. When I saw that I lost it and jumped on top of him. Long story short, I ended up with three broken knuckles, him a broken nose, my mom sobbing, and two cop cars outside our house. It was the single worst moment in my life.

 

After that incident, we completly ignored each other and each held a deep hatred, and yes, I mean hatred, for each other. I went through a period of intense hate that I had never experienced before, followed by a feeling of sorrow, and then finally the feeling of wanting to make things better. I'm afraid that since I'm leaving soon, this whole mess will be left unfinished and become unfixable. I really want the old days of my brother and me to come back, but I know they wont until I take the initiative, because he's not mature enough to understand all this yet. I still love him and that is why this is the most important goal of mine to accomplish.

 

So I guess what I'm asking is: Does anyone have any advice on how to at least breach the subject with him? I think things have calmed down a lot since all this, but I'm still kind of lost/scared/nervous as hell about doing this. Any advice would be extremly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

-Matt

 

 

 

As for fixing the the angry feelings between you and your brother, the best approach is not to show any signs on your part of being angry with him. On the other hand, the best approach to him showing angry signs of mood in your presence is to ignore them. As if nothing ever happened between he and you. So, the idea behind this approach is that you cannot maintain forever an angry grudge to another person. But the person who is showing those signs to you is expecting you get a notice of them. He is expecting a devolution of the angry signs. But If you ignore these signs, at first he will increase them trying to force you to be aware of them.

You should not reward his expectations. You should ignore his moody behavior as you were not seeing anything. You should behave as if he was not in your presence. Only, when his mood changes for the better and shows a normal behavior you should socialize with him by chatting or inviting him to a movie or anything he would like. You can share with him a small piece of chocolate or something, but you should do that in a natural way, as if this were the most natural thing in the world.

 

Perhaps, some of the readers are not in agreement with my theories. Well, the theories are not mine anyway. But I invite them to argument and discuss what I am saying. This is not politics or religion. We can disagree and argument.

 

Yours,

John Galaor

[John Galaor]

Believe me, my parents tried sending him to rehab, but they went and talked to the cops and they said that they have to first put him on probation and all this other bulls**t. That was my parent's first choice. And no, I do not expect everything to be the same right off the bat and I realize it's gonna take a while and it might no always be pretty. But I have a more optomistic view of what's going to happen. Also, my parents would never send him to faith based rehab, because as you said, it's a joke. Luckily for us there's a top rated rehab facility just 25 minutes from where we live. So when it does come to that point, and yes I believe it will, he'll be in good hands.

 

Again, many thanks to everybody!

 

 

Fro what i have seen in videos on the TV, the rehabilitation process is very likely to fail. They use to shower the person with withdrawal symptoms with a lot of personal attentions and body touching. Well, if the Behavior Modification theory is right, and I believe is right, this is not going to work. The process of extinction of the withdrawal symptoms cannot be done this way. I have not developed yet a precise therapy meant for this, for several reasons. I am not going to discuss this here.

But the withdrawal symptoms should extinguish in a natural way. Reinforcing the patient when he declares he feels better. This implies a sort of controlled social isolation. It is a sort expensive treatment.

 

Yours,

John Galaor

[ltc_fireman]

Tet, I hope it went well.