Opinions wanted

[Tim the Traveller]

Opinions? This seems to be happening more often.

 

 

 

Students punished for FaceBook photo's

 

 

 

I think the athletes were stupid, They signed a contract saying they wouldn't do certain things, Even away from school.

 

I personally however disagree with the other 3 getting punished. They weren't on school property or on school time, Nor was there a school chaperone present. If the school wants to be involved in a students life that deeply, They should help the less fortunate kids financially too. Why are public education dollars being spent on punishing kids who had a drink at a party when there are drug dealers in their schools that can walk around freely? Whats next, Suspension for 16YO's who get a speeding ticket? Detention for failure to wear a seatbelt? How about walking around stupid, Can we suspend kids for that? If they want to punish kids in rural Wisconsin for drinking, They may as well suspend the senior class of every HS in the state.

 

Believe me, 15 years ago when I last attended HS, This would have been the least of the problems facing the faculty, And if this was the worst thing that happened in the school year, They would have been quite happy.

 

What do you think? Is this an invasion of privacy? Do regular students have the right to be punished for pictures they didn't consent to being posted online?

[Lugh]

I think this is an invasion of privacy and personally would fight the community service or any other punishment. There was no drinking on school property, during school hours, or that affected a game/practice, that makes it a family issue not a school one -- period. Better yet, my child would show up at school the next day with an over night bag looking for his bed cause if they want to take over raising him then damn it they can house and feed him too. Be like oh since you are "in leiu of the parents during school hours... he has an ortho appointment at 9, be on time." And "which one of you do I call if I can't pick him up from soccer since you don't want him alone and maybe getting in trouble and all?"

 

Oh yeah I would so make a huge stink out of it. Might not be able to sue but it wouldn't get out of the news for a while.

 

As for the person who took the picture and put it on facebook, and the one who turned it in to the school... heh... they would get theirs. Depending on their ages and involvement there might be legal charges. Oh yeah a big stink.

[Cia]

Could I see these students getting possible charges of minor in posession from police? Yes. Can I see the validity of the school kicking the athletes off their teams? No. Also, I want to know who instituted the community service? Is it the police in lieu of ticketing the teenagers or the school's arbritary punishment for the student's that aren't athletes? Why are not all the teenagers getting community service? Were some doing thins that were worse than the others? Does forced community service equal not being able to play a game, even if there is the possibility it helps you get into college?

 

Back when I was in high school the senior class always had a big drunk fest the night of graduation and a 'school official' volunteered a field on their property for it to occur on, it was impossible to raid because of the location. Every year the school offered a reward for any information leading to the shut down of the party, and yet it never happened. I was in a tiny school way in a rural setting, there were maybe a handful of students that didn't drink or do other things. There was never any accidents, incidents of alchohol poisoning or fights. I'm not condoing teen drinking, but really, if it isn't on school time, property or affect a function, is it not the parent's or the police's responsibility to respond? I think the school system in this day and age has become overly restrictive and completely too involved in dictating a students time away from the school. Morality clause, sheesh, these are teenagers for cripes sakes, the contracts aren't legally binding yet they don't allow the kids to play unless they sign, it's essentially blackmail.

[JamesSavik]

School administrators have gone power hungry. They think they've been given a blank check to instill discipline but many of them are going too far.

 

I cite the case of the school using wireless tech too access the web-cams on school issued laptops to spy on their students at home- often in their own bedroom after hours.

 

That's just creepy.

[Daisy]

It's not just schools. My uni did something similar to some people years ago. And businesses are in on the act as well.

 

 

You are being watched. And it can get you in trouble.

 

School administrators have gone power hungry. They think they've been given a blank check to instill discipline but many of them are going too far.

 

I cite the case of the school using wireless tech too access the web-cams on school issued laptops to spy on their students at home- often in their own bedroom after hours.

 

That's just creepy.

 

that is awful. that shouldn't be allowed!

[Tomas]

In my opinion, schools (should really be called indoctrination centers these days) authority should end at the school property line. There is one exception, a school sponsored function or event that is at a location other than school property.

 

Discipline for infractions of school rules that occur on school property or at a school sponsored event should be handled by the school sans law enforcement. The only time that the police should be called in is if what occurred would be considered a crime under the law.

 

Discipline for anything that happens off of school property or is not at a school sponsored event is the responsibility of the parents or the police, if appropriate, not the school.

 

There would probably be a greater outcry from parents except, unfortunately, it seems a great number of parents have abdicated their responsibility for raising and disciplining their kids to the schools or other authority.

[Graeme]

I think this is partially a USA issue, because of the very different nature of high schools in the USA vs in Australia, but we've had some issues with facebook here, too. One prominent one was a group of college students who put up a facebook page advocating rape.... :wacko:

 

On the specifics of this case, I read the article and the three non-athlete students were ordered to do community service and that legal action was still a possibility. In other words, the school had assumed the position of prosecutor, judge and jury, found the students guilty and assigned punishment, all without the students being allowed to contest the issue (in particular, being able to confront their accuser, since the article says that the photos were presented to the school by someone whom the school wouldn't name).

 

I sincerely doubt that the school has the legal authority to order community service. They could order the students to do something at school (eg. detention, or similar), but outside of school hours I believe their authority is limited.

 

There was also the point made in the comments that the students were not able to sign legally binding contracts, so even the punishment of the athletes is questionable. The students, being underage, could not be held to the standard of behaviour specified outside off school property and out of school hours. The school is still in their rights to drop them from the teams, but they shouldn't be able to use off-school behaviour as a reason, unless the students had been charged -- and even there, they should be required to reinstate them if the charges were not proven.

 

I've tried to think of it from the schools point of view, to provide balance, but all I can come up with is that student behaviour reflects back on the school, even out of hours. However, that doesn't work because the students don't have a choice in what school they go to -- their parents do, not them. If the school imposes standards of behaviour that the students disagree with, there is no real recourse. The only standards of behaviour I feel the school can appropriately enforce are those that are legal. In other words, if a student is charged with something that occurred away from the school and not at a school event, the school could act on that. Otherwise, no.

[Mark Arbour]

I think it's important to remember that there is a pronounced difference between high school and college. High school students are usually minors.

[rknapp]

Unless the laws in Wisconsin are different, the school has no authority over things occurring off school grounds and out of school hours and not interfering with school functions. The athletes had signed their extracurricular time away to the school, but the other three did not and the school has no right to displace the parents and law enforcement. If the parents are unable to perform their parental duties, the children become wards of the state, not the school system.

[Tim the Traveller]

It's nice to know people think the same way you do.

 

when I was in HS, I wanted to join the chess team, Just because I was ok at it, And my cousin who had committed suicide the year before had taught me to play, And I wanted to improve.

 

Then they hand you a contract they want you to sign saying you wont do any illegal drugs or use tobacco or consume alcohol.

 

I declined from the activity at that point. And for those that know me, this was before I had taken my first puff of anything. I simply did not agree with the school dictating what I could and couldn't do off of school time. My foster parents agreed with me, And since I was a good kid who went to church every Sunday AND every Wednesday night, They didn't think that I should have to sign such a contract since I was on such a short leash as it was.

 

But if one of their kids had been punished for a photo posted on FB without their permission, Look out! There is something called the Bill of Rights, And I for one don't care that the government has forgotten about that important document. I would be standing up for my kids rights. There needs to be more parents like Lugh who would defend their kids from unjust punishment.

 

Of course, Thats just my opinion, And I would like to thank everyone who replied. Like I said, It's nice to know people think the way I do

[Rilbur]

In my opinion, schools (should really be called indoctrination centers these days) authority should end at the school property line. There is one exception, a school sponsored function or event that is at a location other than school property.

 

They also cover transit to and from school -- and from experience, that's justified. Too much bullying occurs not just on-campus, but after (and before) hours as you walk to / from it. It's necessary, and fair, to extend school 'protections' to those hours as best as possible.

[Tomas]

They also cover transit to and from school -- and from experience, that's justified. Too much bullying occurs not just on-campus, but after (and before) hours as you walk to / from it. It's necessary, and fair, to extend school 'protections' to those hours as best as possible.

I will concede school buses as an extension of school property and under school authority. Physical bullying, on or off of school property is assault, a crime under the law. In such cases, it is proper for the school to handle it, with assistance w/law enforcement, when it occurs on school property, but if it occurs off of school property it is a law enforcement matter and is properly handled by the police, not the school. If a student is accused of assault and arrested whether on or off of school property, then the school has an obligation to protect the other students in the school while on campus, either by suspension until the case is resolved or by expulsion from the school.

 

Bullying is a major problem in and out of schools. The sad thing about it is a lot of it is unreported and frequently when it is reported nothing is done about it until it leads to a tragic outcome.

 

Anyway, the above is only my opinion. Yours may vary.

[Lugh]

This is true Tomas, however, school authority does not extend to the activities of minor children during any hours that are not covered by the school including computer time, weekends, after dark, and when they are out partying with their friends. If that were the case, should I sue the school for contributing to the deliquency of a minor when he calls me a bastard and when I go to correct him he informs me if I hit him he will call the police? AND when I call the police THEY REFUSE TO TAKE HIM? I mean, if they want to deal with him all the time, the police can take him there at 11 pm when he is picked up for breaking curfew, right? But oh yeah I forgot... they said that if he gets in so much trouble they can expell him. What good does THAT do? Gives him more time to get in trouble? That's intellegent and part of the problem with our system (educational and judiciary). Anyway. If I get locked up, send me stuff I can have. And I'm going to need a typist. Any volunteers?

[Arpeggio]

I sincerely doubt that the school has the legal authority to order community service.

 

I attended a private school and it was mandatory for me to serve 50 community service hours a year, and my parents also had to have so many participation hours with school programs. They basically had us whipped.

 

As for going on their myspace/facebook/tweeter etc, I dont like that idea at all.

[Rilbur]

I attended a private school and it was mandatory for me to serve 50 community service hours a year, and my parents also had to have so many participation hours with school programs. They basically had us whipped.

 

As for going on their myspace/facebook/tweeter etc, I dont like that idea at all.

 

My public school had a 40 hour community service requirement to graduate.

[Tomas]

I see nothing wrong with reasonable Community Service hours as part of a specific course requirement, but a school assigning Community Service as a punishment for a rules infraction, to me at least, crosses the line.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Tomas

[KJames]

My public school had a 40 hour community service requirement to graduate.

 

The problem I have with that is that it creates a glut of people for community service organizations that they can't accomodate.

 

If my school, and its counterparts did that, they'd have been flooding the area with students looking for "Service Hours"...my school senior class alone would have been looking for 51,200 hours at a 40 hour requirement, if that were expanded to the other two schools in the district at that time with senior classes (one school was new and only had Freshman and Sophomores going in), that figure could be expected to flood the South Orange County area with 153,600 volunteer hours needed. That's enough hours for 2 employees to work 36.92 years at 40 hours per week--long enough to retire!

Edited February 25, 2010 by KJames

[Lugh]

It's not really a problem around here as far as too many people volunteering. Consider: 40 hours community service is one hour a week for 40 weeks or about one school year. If you do that in your 10th or 11th grade year, so it can easily go on your college applications as being done, and considering the types of things the school considers community service, it's easy to get done. It is required here as well of all students (50 hours). DC did his last year (before officially starting high school) by "volunteering" as a camp counciler for boy scouts. He was not paid, so it counted. If he opts to do it this year, he will be fifteen, and he will be eligible for pay. In fact, I think that community service is good for the boy, and last year he managed over 200 hours, but that is beside the point. It is not the place of the school to determine my child should be punished with community service. It is the place of a judge or me.

 

 

For another example: if the weather holds... this saturday about 200 boys and men will be going to a local national park and doing trail clean up. They will be working for approximately 8 hours with a lunch break. I'm sure they will not "work" for the whole 8 hours, but they will get 8 hours community service credit for showing up on time, leaving with the group, and working while they are there, then returning with the group. He don't really need the hours. He likes to do it. I'm sure there are similar oppurtunities in every comminity.

[KJames]

It's not really a problem around here as far as too many people volunteering. It is not the place of the school to determine my child should be punished with community service. It is the place of a judge or me.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree with school systems making volunteer service mandatory--it takes away from the meaning of the word. Although, I stand by my statement that the area I was in High School would never have been able to handle that many volunteers each year.

[Tim the Traveller]

ok, now im speechless. for those that know me, you understand the importance of that.

 

 

WI Teen Sentenced

[Lugh]

well for starters this is a seperate topic and really deserves its own thread... secondly... WTF? Ok the posing part I get.. people do it all the time with ages, names, and other identifying information -- why not genders... what I don't get is why be evil with it? then again there are some sick people in this world, so who knows. Honestly it seems more like a prank that got out of control to me than anything "seriously harmful". Deserving of punishment, yes, fifteen to thirty years... no.