centexhairysub Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 0:) I am gonna say a little prayer for Mark because he must have sold his soul to have come up with a story this good... I loved Chapter 61, The Wedding, it was just the perfect way to end the week. I loved the scene with JP and Brad by themselves and the one with Will and Brad was great as well. I guess Sir Elton John was the perfect person to play the beginning and ending song and his song " The Bitch is Back " for Stef was great. I loved that Robbie and the kids sang Robbie's song for Brad. I am sort of suprised about Brad choosing Beyoncé Knowles. I am for Texas were they started and they really weren't that big in early 2000 yet. Destiny's Child had been around a while but their first album self titled in 1998 only got to about 70 or so on Billboards album list and only the remix version of " No No No " did anything on the single chart from that album. Their breakthrough album " The Writing on the Wall ", while released in 1999, did not really even hit it big until later in 2000. That being said, I do appreciate the choice of song that Brad made for Robbie. I like how Mark has incorporated the story of the shelter and the runaways into this story, even if it is a small sub-plot. The plight of gay teens is something that is still a major problem and one that needs all the attention it can be given. I was lucky to come out with the support of my family when I was very young and can say that I never really had any significant issues in doing so but that is often not the case. Keep up the great work Mark...
methodwriter85 Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 On the other hand, Destiny's Child not being that big yet might be WHY they were able to get Beyonce Knowles out for the wedding. By about late 2000-early 2001, Beyonce's going to be on a decade-long ascent of music stardom...it's actually more realistic that they could get her to come out just before she really made it big. The scene with Will was cute, but seriously- a 13-year old boy thought he'd be best man? Dude. LOL. I'm thinking I've got this totally wrong in thinking that Will's the laidback one. I'm getting the feeling that he's going to be as much of a neurotic mess as Brad was as a teenager.
centexhairysub Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 On the other hand, Destiny's Child not being that big yet might be WHY they were able to get Beyonce Knowles out for the wedding. By about late 2000-early 2001, Beyonce's going to be on a decade-long ascent of music stardom...it's actually more realistic that they could get her to come out just before she really made it big. Well, I guess my deal was Destiny's Child wasn't even that big in their hometown of Houston in late 1999 early 2000, so why would someone in the A-List in Hollywood have known about them. They were more infamous that famous in 98,99,and early 2000 for infighting, changes in line-up, and lawsuits than for singing until late 2000.
methodwriter85 Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 I'm Will and JJ's age, and trust me- we knew about Destiny's Child even early in that year. I'm guessing it might have been the influence of Brad's kids on this one.
Mark Arbour Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 0:) I am gonna say a little prayer for Mark because he must have sold his soul to have come up with a story this good... I loved Chapter 61, The Wedding, it was just the perfect way to end the week. I loved the scene with JP and Brad by themselves and the one with Will and Brad was great as well. I guess Sir Elton John was the perfect person to play the beginning and ending song and his song " The Bitch is Back " for Stef was great. I loved that Robbie and the kids sang Robbie's song for Brad. I am sort of suprised about Brad choosing Beyoncé Knowles. I am for Texas were they started and they really weren't that big in early 2000 yet. Destiny's Child had been around a while but their first album self titled in 1998 only got to about 70 or so on Billboards album list and only the remix version of " No No No " did anything on the single chart from that album. Their breakthrough album " The Writing on the Wall ", while released in 1999, did not really even hit it big until later in 2000. That being said, I do appreciate the choice of song that Brad made for Robbie. I like how Mark has incorporated the story of the shelter and the runaways into this story, even if it is a small sub-plot. The plight of gay teens is something that is still a major problem and one that needs all the attention it can be given. I was lucky to come out with the support of my family when I was very young and can say that I never really had any significant issues in doing so but that is often not the case. Keep up the great work Mark... What got me thinking of her was, in addition to Destiny's Child moderate success at that point, Beyonce starred in Carmen: Hip Hopera (not exactly a stellar show) in 2001, so I figured she'd be filming that in 2000, and sucking up to Robbie wouldn't be a bad idea. On the other hand, Destiny's Child not being that big yet might be WHY they were able to get Beyonce Knowles out for the wedding. By about late 2000-early 2001, Beyonce's going to be on a decade-long ascent of music stardom...it's actually more realistic that they could get her to come out just before she really made it big. The scene with Will was cute, but seriously- a 13-year old boy thought he'd be best man? Dude. LOL. I'm thinking I've got this totally wrong in thinking that Will's the laidback one. I'm getting the feeling that he's going to be as much of a neurotic mess as Brad was as a teenager. I think that says less about Will's arrogance than on the tightness of their relationship. At a wedding, you want the people who are most important to you standing up for you, and he certainly fits that bill. He knows it, and Brad knows it. But he got there in the end. 1
methodwriter85 Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Right. I'm thinking that in another 15 years or so, Brad's going to be Will's best man at Will's (legal) wedding. Which will be cool.
Ivy Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) I just love this story! The wedding was great, just the right mix of serious and fun. I mean really, " I touch myself"!!! Only Brad would have the cajones to have that song at his wedding! And his panic at saying his vows and the way he rose above it, is so true to form for him. He is such a multi-level, multi-dimensional character, that you have created Mark. I think that is why he is the favorite of so many readers. He has is flaws, but he is so much fun to read because he keeps suprising us with his responses and reactions.. Just the right thing for reading when I am snowed in at home today. Edited February 4, 2011 by Ivy
PrivateTim Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I just love this story! The wedding was great, just the right mix of serious and fun. I mean really, " I touch myself"!!! Only Brad would have the cajones to have that song at his wedding! And his panic at saying his vows and the way he rose above it, is so true to form for him. He is such a multi-level, multi-dimensional character, that you have created Mark. I think that is why he is the favorite of so many readers. He has is flaws, but he is so much fun to read because he keeps suprising us with his responses and reactions.. Just the right thing for reading when I am snowed in at home today. Okay, don't think me a curmudgeon, but I could give a rip about the wedding and the love play room. This story was heading such a great direction when they were on the road to crushing Omega. If the story were an opera, I'd be in the bar right now on my third Scotch. Cut the mushy crap I want drama! 1
Mark Arbour Posted February 7, 2011 Author Posted February 7, 2011 Okay, don't think me a curmudgeon, but I could give a rip about the wedding and the love play room. This story was heading such a great direction when they were on the road to crushing Omega. If the story were an opera, I'd be in the bar right now on my third Scotch. Cut the mushy crap I want drama! Curmudgeon. 1
centexhairysub Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Well Damn, just didn't see part of that coming... I knew that Alexadra had something on Elizabeth but didn't see a black lover coming at all, that would be really hard to recover from in 2000 unless it was maybe Vernon Jordan, LOL..... I totally did not even think about Elizabeth having an affair with Brad's Bio-dad... I just never even thought of that as a possibility. Wade's showdown with his father was very well written. You can tell that although Wade has worked to overcome how he feels, he still is not over everything that his father did to him. I am not sure that even with counseling and everything else you ever get over that really... You can tell that the Senator really does love his son and is truly terrified of losing him forever, you can almost feel sorry for him... This was damn fine writting and I can't wait to see how it plays out... Chapter 62 was GREAT!!!!!! :2thumbs:
Mark Arbour Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 Well Damn, just didn't see part of that coming... I knew that Alexadra had something on Elizabeth but didn't see a black lover coming at all, that would be really hard to recover from in 2000 unless it was maybe Vernon Jordan, LOL..... I totally did not even think about Elizabeth having an affair with Brad's Bio-dad... I just never even thought of that as a possibility. Wade's showdown with his father was very well written. You can tell that although Wade has worked to overcome how he feels, he still is not over everything that his father did to him. I am not sure that even with counseling and everything else you ever get over that really... You can tell that the Senator really does love his son and is truly terrified of losing him forever, you can almost feel sorry for him... This was damn fine writting and I can't wait to see how it plays out... Chapter 62 was GREAT!!!!!! :2thumbs: I agree with you...I think the Senator is desperate to bond with Wade in a "normal" fashion. This storyline gave me a way to explain Elizabeth Danfield's behavior, and it starts to become understandable IMHO. 1
mmike1969 Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 ... wow, is that a disturbing image or what... I will probably Never be able to watch Gone With the Wind ever again without thinking about this story... BTW, has Brian been introduced to Jim? If not, Brian still has some ammo left against JP.
rjo Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Speaking of ammo. Didn't Lark tape a telephone conversation between Alex and Dan about them setting up a hit on Lark. Everybody thinks Lark is dead. Could Brad use that as black mail against Alex to get Elizabeth off the hook for good. The thought of going to prison for 25 years may stop Alex in her tracks. What is very interesting about this last chapter (62) is that Senator Danfield and Elizabeth look more like victims and if the hold over them could be broken maybe they could be better people. Back to the Wedding chapter (61) I never thought JP was so tormented by Jeff. I hope Brad's words helped him. I don't think Jeff drug use was JP's fault. Maybe JP could have done things better, but I don't think JP ever wished Jeff harm. JP was not sad at Jeff's death but he did not wish Jeff dead. The memories JP should hold close is Jeff coming through the patio doors of JP's room in Clairmont and the time Jeff drove 600 miles to be with JP on Valentine's Day. JP's teddy bear. Those are the happy memories he needs to remember. Those new Hayes kids have some that Jeff or Brian didn't have a happy stable loving home. The solid base which we all need. I am still hope for two sets of twins. If not I hope It's Robbie daughter, and Matt's son. One more thing, The more we read this book (Millennium) the more I think it could stand alone. Never before has Mark gotten in the mind of a character and lived with him day by day moment by moment. I think we as readers have gotten to know Brad better than we did before. We see the worst and the best and We learned what kind for person Brad is. Just as Brad has learned that about himself. Edited February 8, 2011 by rjo
Mark Arbour Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 Speaking of ammo. Didn't Lark tape a telephone conversation between Alex and Dan about them setting up a hit on Lark. Everybody thinks Lark is dead. Could Brad use that as black mail against Alex to get Elizabeth off the hook for good. The thought of going to prison for 25 years may stop Alex in her tracks. What is very interesting about this last chapter (62) is that Senator Danfield and Elizabeth look more like victims and if the hold over them could be broken maybe they could be better people. Back to the Wedding chapter (61) I never thought JP was so tormented by Jeff. I hope Brad's words helped him. I don't think Jeff drug use was JP's fault. Maybe JP could have done things better, but I don't think JP ever wished Jeff harm. JP was not sad at Jeff's death but he did not wish Jeff dead. The memories JP should hold close is Jeff coming through the patio doors of JP's room in Clairmont and the time Jeff drove 600 miles to be with JP on Valentine's Day. JP's teddy bear. Those are the happy memories he needs to remember. Those new Hayes kids have some that Jeff or Brian didn't have a happy stable loving home. The solid base which we all need. I am still hope for two sets of twins. If not I hope It's Robbie daughter, and Matt's son. One more thing, The more we read this book (Millennium) the more I think it could stand alone. Never before has Mark gotten in the mind of a character and lived with him day by day moment by moment. I think we as readers have gotten to know Brad better than we did before. We see the worst and the best and We learned what kind for person Brad is. Just as Brad has learned that about himself. I think the overriding theme of this story would have to be the "maturing" of both Robbie and Brad, where they finally learn to put the idiotic things they used to do in the past and act like men, not adolescents. At least that's the concept. Another thing that's been fun to do with these stories is to portray the Hayes family in various situations, and observe their outcomes. Jeff was bright and talented but doomed to fail, yet he came from a hellish home. Matt and Gathan are both successful, and they came from stable homes. I'm not sure I was planning this to be a dissertation on environment and its impact on kids, but it seems I'm ending up there anyway. JP is a very thorough person, and usually is on top of things (well, not all the time ). He's adept at anticipating problems and outcomes, and then planning to forestall disaster. He's pretty much done that all his life, especially with the men he's been with, all of them except Jeff (and Sam). For an achievement oriented person, I can see where Jeff would haunt him, because he would think that he failed with Jeff. Further, his state of mind in 1968 was so uncharacteristic, what with being in the midst of revolutions and riots, job changes and moves, etc., that he probably wasn't thinking things through as clearly as he otherwise would have. He'll note that, and take that burden on himself, and that's the fire that fuels his guilt. Could he have done more? That's the sentence that haunts him. 1
rjo Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 The great question is: could JP had saved Jeff or was Jeff fated to fail? In his final letter to JP and his conversation with Sam Jeff said every time things were good Jeff screwed it up. I know some one very much like that, Time and time they are their worst enemy. One another question Mark you are not planning to kill JP off are you?
methodwriter85 Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Another thing that's been fun to do with these stories is to portray the Hayes family in various situations, and observe their outcomes. Jeff was bright and talented but doomed to fail, yet he came from a hellish home. Matt and Gathan are both successful, and they came from stable homes. I'm not sure I was planning this to be a dissertation on environment and its impact on kids, but it seems I'm ending up there anyway There are the exceptions, though. Billy came from a stable home, but because of the permissiveness of his parents, particularly his mother, he got out of control and became doomed. And then, of course, you've got Gen 4. All of the kids grew up in a stable environment. Darius and Will seem like sure-headed kids, but JJ seems like the question mark here. He's devoting himself into the high stakes of competitive pro sports, and there's no way to tell how well he's going to handle it. Being at the top of your game at 14 in no way guarentees that you'll be at the top of your game at 20 in '06, and JJ's struggles to stay on top and gunning for the Gold will make for an interesting story. Especially since, if Mark doesn't want to revise history, Evengei Plushenko wins the gold in '06 and Evan Lycasek wins the gold in '10. How JJ handles realizing that he's not the best could be some meaty, dramatic stuff there. I had a coach who wasn't quite good enough for the Olympics- he spent 4 years chasing it, made the semi-finals, but couldn't quite get there. It took him a long time to get over it.
Bob1010 Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I think the overriding theme of this story would have to be the "maturing" of both Robbie and Brad, where they finally learn to put the idiotic things they used to do in the past and act like men, not adolescents. At least that's the concept. Another thing that's been fun to do with these stories is to portray the Hayes family in various situations, and observe their outcomes. Jeff was bright and talented but doomed to fail, yet he came from a hellish home. Matt and Gathan are both successful, and they came from stable homes. I'm not sure I was planning this to be a dissertation on environment and its impact on kids, but it seems I'm ending up there anyway. JP is a very thorough person, and usually is on top of things (well, not all the time ). He's adept at anticipating problems and outcomes, and then planning to forestall disaster. He's pretty much done that all his life, especially with the men he's been with, all of them except Jeff (and Sam). For an achievement oriented person, I can see where Jeff would haunt him, because he would think that he failed with Jeff. Further, his state of mind in 1968 was so uncharacteristic, what with being in the midst of revolutions and riots, job changes and moves, etc., that he probably wasn't thinking things through as clearly as he otherwise would have. He'll note that, and take that burden on himself, and that's the fire that fuels his guilt. Could he have done more? That's the sentence that haunts him. I agree that Millennium is such a great story and can really stand alone without reading the whole series. I have recommended it to a couple of people and said that Mark does such a good job at placing a person or event from the past into context that the new reader isn't lost. It's also great for those of us whose memories need a little jogging. A question for you Mark about how you handle your character development: Do you have a general idea of the characters and they sort of develop as you go along or have you got a pretty clear idea of each character before you write while you are still in the planning of the story line. It sure have been an interesting group of characters that have gotten plenty of emotional reactions from us, your readers. However you do it, it sure works for me and a lot of others. This has been increasingly true as you have grown as a writer.:king: Some writers are more focused on the characters and others more on plot and story line. You do both in the same story. Not bad with cliff hangers either.
Mark Arbour Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 The great question is: could JP had saved Jeff or was Jeff fated to fail? In his final letter to JP and his conversation with Sam Jeff said every time things were good Jeff screwed it up. I know some one very much like that, Time and time they are their worst enemy. One another question Mark you are not planning to kill JP off are you? I'm currently planning for JP to die of old age. Or swine flu. I haven't decided yet. There are the exceptions, though. Billy came from a stable home, but because of the permissiveness of his parents, particularly his mother, he got out of control and became doomed. And then, of course, you've got Gen 4. All of the kids grew up in a stable environment. Darius and Will seem like sure-headed kids, but JJ seems like the question mark here. He's devoting himself into the high stakes of competitive pro sports, and there's no way to tell how well he's going to handle it. Being at the top of your game at 14 in no way guarentees that you'll be at the top of your game at 20 in '06, and JJ's struggles to stay on top and gunning for the Gold will make for an interesting story. Especially since, if Mark doesn't want to revise history, Evengei Plushenko wins the gold in '06 and Evan Lycasek wins the gold in '10. How JJ handles realizing that he's not the best could be some meaty, dramatic stuff there. I had a coach who wasn't quite good enough for the Olympics- he spent 4 years chasing it, made the semi-finals, but couldn't quite get there. It took him a long time to get over it. Every since I transformed JJ into a bitchy diva, he's been much more fun to write. I agree that Millennium is such a great story and can really stand alone without reading the whole series. I have recommended it to a couple of people and said that Mark does such a good job at placing a person or event from the past into context that the new reader isn't lost. It's also great for those of us whose memories need a little jogging. A question for you Mark about how you handle your character development: Do you have a general idea of the characters and they sort of develop as you go along or have you got a pretty clear idea of each character before you write while you are still in the planning of the story line. It sure have been an interesting group of characters that have gotten plenty of emotional reactions from us, your readers. However you do it, it sure works for me and a lot of others. This has been increasingly true as you have grown as a writer.:king: Some writers are more focused on the characters and others more on plot and story line. You do both in the same story. Not bad with cliff hangers either. Thanks! I have a basic persona in mind, and then let them evolve. Robbie for instance, started off as a guy with that classic Hayes body and looks, and a guy who'd got some damage and baggage. He's really insecure, and susceptible to guys who make him feel good about himself. He's kind of flaky at times. He's also a very kind person; the kind of person who doesn't like confrontation and doesn't like giving people bad news. Stef is another one. Visualize a total extrovert, someone who loves pleasure, but underneath that effervescent exterior has the mind of a business genius. Once they get started, they almost develop themselves. 1
methodwriter85 Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) I'm currently planning for JP to die of old age. Or swine flu. I haven't decided yet. Well, you know what Adam wanted to have happen to JP, sweet guy that Adam is. Every since I transformed JJ into a bitchy diva, he's been much more fun to write. And to think, you wanted to make JJ straight and a bit butchier. Much more fun this way, right? In any event, the best part about JJ being a bitchy diva is that it's totally natural. JJ, having lived in the shadow as the neglected middle child finally has something that sets him apart from his brothers. He's 14, doing great in a high-profile sport, and he's getting tons of praise heaped on him. Of course it's getting to his head. Which will make his eventual reality check- no '02 Olympics- much, much more delicious when it happens. I have a basic persona in mind, and then let them evolve. Once they get started, they almost develop themselves. It looks like for Gen 4, you've got Darius as the party animal and smoothtalker. JJ is the cheerful, happy-go-lucky guy with a flair for being dramatic and somewhat bitchy. And Will's the quiet, serious, and shy one. although he's not completely an introvert like Brad was. And Will seems a little more laidback and a bit less of a control freak than Brad was. The dynamics and personalities for this gen seem completely different from the dynamics of the Be Rad gen, which is a great thing. I think the key to that was not really having an Ace- Darius is close to Ace's personality, but since Darius was four years ahead of the bulk of the group, he wasn't really around to push them into being a cohesive social group at school. And it seems like the dynamics of Malibu High/Middle School are much more laidback and less status-obsessed like 1980 Gunn High was. Edited February 9, 2011 by methodwriter85
Hermetically Sealed Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 I have a distinct feeling that Brian is not long for the world. Or the world of luxury, at any rate.
mmike1969 Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 you know, if JP/Brad has access to less then ethical associates in Mexico, I am sure the Carmichaels do too. if this spreads, you are going to have Lark, and Brian dead and a lot of innocients in the crossfire. can't wait for THAT to happen
Mark Arbour Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 you know, if JP/Brad has access to less then ethical associates in Mexico, I am sure the Carmichaels do too. if this spreads, you are going to have Lark, and Brian dead and a lot of innocients in the crossfire. can't wait for THAT to happen No, that would be mean. 1
Ivy Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Oh the games people play...This is so juicy and delicious on so many levels....
Tiger Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 you know, if JP/Brad has access to less then ethical associates in Mexico, I am sure the Carmichaels do too. if this spreads, you are going to have Lark, and Brian dead and a lot of innocients in the crossfire. can't wait for THAT to happen Personally, I'm hoping that Alexandra ends up dead, even if it's just by suicide.
Mark Arbour Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 Just as an update, I've just finished roughing out the last chapter of Millennium. The story ended up being 75 chapters long. 1
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