[Andrew_Q_Gordon] Second Shot

[JimCarter]

Hey Andy,

 

 

 

I just finished reading Second Shot. I was a very enjoyable read. Great job dude.

 

 

 

Jim

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Hey Andy,

 

 

 

I just finished reading Second Shot. I was a very enjoyable read. Great job dude.

 

 

 

Jim

 

Jim,

 

Thanks for letting me know. Are you back with us? I haven't seen you around much. Glad you enjoyed it. Now if only I could get motivated to finish something else LOL

 

Andy

[ghrays]

Thank you for taking the time to a) read and b ) let me know. Trevor has been a huge fan and a good friend so I am not surprised he is still pushing my story

 

If you don't mind, and this isn't really a shameless attempt to solicit more comments, but can you expound on your comment about control issues not seeming authentic? Why not? and I am asking not to say you are wrong, but to hear why.

 

I am not sure if you write - your profile doesn't say Author yet, but that doesn't mean much - but if you do then you understand how you can write something and think - oh yeah baby, this works so well. Then put it out there and folks go :blink: say what?

 

Your comment about the middle being over long was seconded by a few people, so if I were to rewrite it, I would start chopping there.

 

I am glad you thought the characters were developed. That was an area I tried very hard to establish. I wanted them to have a distinct character and then tried to keep them 'in character' as much as possible.

 

Really, thank you for this. And please - if it isn't too much - give me a bit more about the control issue - I promise not to be upset or pissy

 

OK first, I am not a writer. I wish I had the creative talent to write a story, but I don't. I am an avid reader, and I think I have some ability as an editor, as spelling, grammar and punctuation errors jump out at me whenever I read a text. I hope I also have an appreciation for the style of writing, for to be truly eloquent requires fewer words, not more.

 

So, to my comments on Second Shot. First off, I would say I had a small problem with the character Peter's issues over money: In my own experience, very few people have money disagreements when there is too much of it around. When reading the early chapters, I had the feeling that Peter's frequent issues over Jason's money were purposely inserted into the story to "set up" a problem later, and this is how I read Peter's control issues in the last few chapters. It just didn't seem realistic to me. A number of other possible conflicts could have been created that might have been more believable, such as Peter having difficulty coping with his trauma (both physical and psychological), temptation from another guy, etc.

 

Finally, I thought the interactions between Jason and his grandfather were touching. Adding the classic car connection really solidified their relationship in an authentic way for me, I have always loved Austin-Healeys.

Edited May 28, 2011 by ghrays

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Yeah, I can see that - though the issue of 'too much money' is not as unlikely as you think.

 

I am going to try to explain my thinking here without getting defensive - a) Because I asked you to do it to help me out and b ) because I can see you point.

 

Perhaps this is where reality hits fiction. Once, when I was young and reasonably cute - or so I was told - I met a very hot guy at a bar. We chatted, exchanged numbers etc. he called and asked if I was free for dinner - we'd hadn't had a date yet, not gone home, not even kissed. Anyway, I said sure, and turns out his was the scion of a VERY wealthy, old money family - think old robber baron type family wealth. Took me for a helicopter ride to go to dinner. I seriously never felt more awkward or uncomfortable in my life. Mind you, my family was not poor. My dad was CEO of a fair sized international company and did alright [my mom was also an officer in a smaller company so we were fine] But sitting there, next to him [i won't use names cause I don't want to give away anything] on the copter, it was daunting. He was in his element, thought nothing of doing this, felt totally comfortable with it. Nor did he flaunt it. But back then I was not in a position to pay the tip on dinner. I owed more in student loan debt than I made - [yeah my dad made us pay our own way through grad school. He paid for half his college, felt we needed to do something to learn what it was like] all of which made it hard. On some level I think he appreciated I didn't want his money and that we were dating because I liked him.

 

Long story short, it was a huge issue for me. Not the one that kept us apart - I learned he had a coke habit and drank too much. So I can say that there was a nugget of real life to that 'theme'

 

But clearly you were right, it was there for the purpose of the ending, so five points to for that

[JimCarter]

Jim,

 

Thanks for letting me know. Are you back with us? I haven't seen you around much. Glad you enjoyed it. Now if only I could get motivated to finish something else LOL

 

Andy

 

hey bro,

 

I'm back sort of. Spring and summers are always busy for me. Lazyness shows its ugly head too.

[TetRefine]

Ok, I'm still reading this story. I just got to the part where Peter gets beaten up by Jordan and his frat boy douchbag friends. I really love this story Andy!

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Ok, I'm still reading this story. I just got to the part where Peter gets beaten up by Jordan and his frat boy douchbag friends. I really love this story Andy!

 

 

I've been told I ought to have separated the story into two - with that being the end of book one, so think of it that you finished book one and your on to book two. I shall make Purpose not so long and in two parts - see even us old dogs learn new tricks

[TrevorTime]

So, to my comments on Second Shot. First off, I would say I had a small problem with the character Peter's issues over money: In my own experience, very few people have money disagreements when there is too much of it around. When reading the early chapters, I had the feeling that Peter's frequent issues over Jason's money were purposely inserted into the story to "set up" a problem later, and this is how I read Peter's control issues in the last few chapters. It just didn't seem realistic to me.

 

 

In giving this some careful thought, I am going to have to agree with those statements. Jason made it clear that he was not trying to "buy" Pete's affection, or anything like that. Now granted, Pete had a disaster relationship with Hayden, but it became crystal clear to me that Jason was nothing like Hayden.

 

If you fast forward to the end of the story, you can see how Pete's life is spiraling out of control. The fact that Royce was essentially paying his bills really should not have made a difference. I would never label Pete as a "freeloader", unlike that idiot Uncle Ray.

 

(BTW, for those out there who may think I am re-reading from Chap 1 to Chap 50 over and over, that is not the case, LOL. I just click on random chapters from time to time whenever I get bored and need an "angsty" fix.

 

 

 

[Bumblebee]

(BTW, for those out there who may think I am re-reading from Chap 1 to Chap 50 over and over, that is not the case, LOL. I just click on random chapters from time to time whenever I get bored and need an "angsty" fix.

 

 

 

 

LOL cause I was wondering if you had memorised the story yet

[Andrew Q Gordon]

In giving this some careful thought, I am going to have to agree with those statements. Jason made it clear that he was not trying to "buy" Pete's affection, or anything like that. Now granted, Pete had a disaster relationship with Hayden, but it became crystal clear to me that Jason was nothing like Hayden.

 

If you fast forward to the end of the story, you can see how Pete's life is spiraling out of control. The fact that Royce was essentially paying his bills really should not have made a difference. I would never label Pete as a "freeloader", unlike that idiot Uncle Ray.

 

(BTW, for those out there who may think I am re-reading from Chap 1 to Chap 50 over and over, that is not the case, LOL. I just click on random chapters from time to time whenever I get bored and need an "angsty" fix.

 

 

As author I have to admit to a bias upfront BUT - just because it is not how you would act, doesn't mean the actions of the character are unbelievable. Just because you wouldn't label someone in a certain way, doesn't mean others wouldn't. The point is that it might be unusual, but I don't think be hung up and being independent is beyond belief. NOW, there might have been a better way, that I won't dispute, but I am open to suggestions and perhaps - JUST PERHAPS Trevor, don't read anything into it - I might, revise some things. But it's not likely.

 

 

 

LOL cause I was wondering if you had memorised the story yet

 

 

I wonder the same thing sometimes, Bee.

[Trebs]

Just finished reading this one last night - GREAT story and really good writing. Enjoyed it - squirmed in places and had my eyes tear up in others.

 

Thanks for a wonderful story!

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Just finished reading this one last night - GREAT story and really good writing. Enjoyed it - squirmed in places and had my eyes tear up in others.

 

Thanks for a wonderful story!

 

Trebs

 

Thank you, I had fun writing it. I think I learned a whole lot finishing it with help from folks on here - which was my reason for coming to learn from everyone. Glad folks liked it.

 

Andy

[TrevorTime]

Hmmmmm, not sure how to ask this, so I will just get right to the point. Have bits of new dialog been added to the story?

 

For some reason, it seems like I am coming across bits and pieces of scenes that I don't remember from the initial reading. So playing detective here, either my memory is slipping (let's hope not) or some of the chapters have been "enhanced".

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Hmmmmm, not sure how to ask this, so I will just get right to the point. Have bits of new dialog been added to the story?

 

For some reason, it seems like I am coming across bits and pieces of scenes that I don't remember from the initial reading. So playing detective here, either my memory is slipping (let's hope not) or some of the chapters have been "enhanced".

 

 

Sorry dude, I have not gone back and changed anything since I posted the last chapter. I need to clean up a few of the first dozen chapters but thus far, I haven't done it. That leaves, your memory is failing you a tad here.

 

Sorry.

[Spot]

For what its worth, I disagree with TrevorTime and ghrays about Peter's money issues not being authentic, because I can totally relate. When my dad moved out, my mom was still finishing college and us kids were in jr. high. He never came through with support, mom didn't want to go to welfare or quit school to get a min wage job so my grandparents helped out (I found out later). It really hurt mom's pride. Us kids learned to be very frugal and independent and the example we had was not to take hand outs. I worked all through college, just like Peter. Even now, my wife and I are doing pretty good with cash. We certainly don't complain about having more than we had 15 years ago, as ghrays suggested. BUT, I am embarrassed and occasionally outraged by the money that her parents want to spend on us, particularly without asking. I admit that sometimes this reaction is some level of insecurity that even now my mom couldn't help like my in-laws could, even if we'd want her too. Occasionally my wife and I even bicker over it. If something happened and our "Royce" was paying the bills, I'd be very upset. Not necessarily at him, but at the situation, which would manifest itself through him. Peter's money issue isn't so much the amount of money, as the source. That leading to Peter's control issues, on top of feeling out of control by being beaten up, makes sense to me.

 

Well, the nice thing about fiction is that you can interpret it and relate to it as you wish. So this isn't a dig at Trevortime or ghrays, just a counterpoint that I thought I'd sign up here to post.

 

I'm glad a friend referred the story to me. It's been a good read these last 3 days.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Spot

[Andrew Q Gordon]

For what its worth, I disagree with TrevorTime and ghrays about Peter's money issues not being authentic, because I can totally relate. When my dad moved out, my mom was still finishing college and us kids were in jr. high. He never came through with support, mom didn't want to go to welfare or quit school to get a min wage job so my grandparents helped out (I found out later). It really hurt mom's pride. Us kids learned to be very frugal and independent and the example we had was not to take hand outs. I worked all through college, just like Peter. Even now, my wife and I are doing pretty good with cash. We certainly don't complain about having more than we had 15 years ago, as ghrays suggested. BUT, I am embarrassed and occasionally outraged by the money that her parents want to spend on us, particularly without asking. I admit that sometimes this reaction is some level of insecurity that even now my mom couldn't help like my in-laws could, even if we'd want her too. Occasionally my wife and I even bicker over it. If something happened and our "Royce" was paying the bills, I'd be very upset. Not necessarily at him, but at the situation, which would manifest itself through him. Peter's money issue isn't so much the amount of money, as the source. That leading to Peter's control issues, on top of feeling out of control by being beaten up, makes sense to me.

 

Well, the nice thing about fiction is that you can interpret it and relate to it as you wish. So this isn't a dig at Trevortime or ghrays, just a counterpoint that I thought I'd sign up here to post.

 

I'm glad a friend referred the story to me. It's been a good read these last 3 days.

 

 

Thanks for the comments and your first post on GA too - thanks

 

As you said, it is fiction and yeah we get to do what we want with it. I felt this was how it should go and it went. I also get that two people can see things two different way - just look at politics and how both sides spin things their own way. And as you pointed out - just because you can relate to it, doesn't mean everyone can. I'm good with that so long as people enjoyed it.

 

Thanks for the three days to read it and glad you enjoyed it.

 

Andy

[Andrew Q Gordon]

 

 

Having finished posting Second Shot on GA, I started to post it on Nifty, after someone suggested I cross post it. They are good enough to allow me to link readers there to GA so I wanted to mention them here in return. So if you get a change you can see what it looks like over there or you can go check out other stuff as well.

 

 

Also as an aside - I had a bit of a bet with myself - pretty good odds on winning this one - that no one was really reading the forum other than this thread and maybe Purpose here and there. But there is a Second Shot announcement where announcements go on my site so if you're reading this, know that there is something else posted elsewhere. Nuff said.

[Benji]

 

 

Having finished posting Second Shot on GA, I started to post it on Nifty, after someone suggested I cross post it. They are good enough to allow me to link readers there to GA so I wanted to mention them here in return. So if you get a change you can see what it looks like over there or you can go check out other stuff as well.

 

 

Also as an aside - I had a bit of a bet with myself - pretty good odds on winning this one - that no one was really reading the forum other than this thread and maybe Purpose here and there. But there is a Second Shot announcement where announcements go on my site so if you're reading this, know that there is something else posted elsewhere. Nuff said.

 

........... Really? A well kept secret of yours perhaps?

[Andrew Q Gordon]

........... Really? A well kept secret of yours perhaps?

 

Well kept? Not really it's been posted and it's out there - I'm just waiting to see if anyone spots it

[AnytaSunday]

I'm just waiting to see if anyone spots it

Other than your biggest fan

[TrevorTime]

Found another hiccup in the story, I swear I should be made "honorary editor" at this point.

 

From Chapter 38, "For Richer or Poorer" -- Even Peter’s face looked thin. Happily Peter’s blue eyes showed the signs of life Jason hoped to see.

 

From the first chapter -- Looking up, Jason found himself staring into his ‘victim’s’ dark brown eyes.

 

The only reason I was even able to catch this is that I have medium brown eyes and Curt has blue eyes.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Yeah good catch, Peter has brown eyes, Jason blue - I go fix it as soon as I get a moment.

 

Thanks Trevor.

[edu29d]

Hi Andy

 

Just read Chapter 1 of Second Shot. It is nice to see an American writing about a sport that isn't one of the big three -Baseball, Basketball or American Football. I have enjoyed reading the chapter and I think it is a story I am going to enjoy reading. Thanks for taking the time to write.

 

Anthony

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Hi Andy

 

Just read Chapter 1 of Second Shot. It is nice to see an American writing about a sport that isn't one of the big three -Baseball, Basketball or American Football. I have enjoyed reading the chapter and I think it is a story I am going to enjoy reading. Thanks for taking the time to write.

 

Anthony

 

 

Anthony,

 

Thanks for taking the time to let me know. I've played or referred soccer for close to 40 years - I started at age ten. I've been fortunate to never have been seriously hurt and got to do a number of fun things soccer wise. This past year I got to referee at the North American Gay Soccer Championship in Vancouver.

 

Glad you're enjoying it, and appreciate that you've let me know you're reading. Feedback really make it's easier to post.

 

Andy

[edu29d]

Hi Andy,

 

I am just about to start on chapter 12, I am already hooked on the story. There isn't a lot of sport references to put people off, but there are a few to interest some. I can understand Darryl's desire to see the Man U Vs Arsenal game, it is one of the biggest.

 

I have enjoyed reading how Jason deals with being in the closet while trying to have a relationship with Peter and really enjoyed the last chapter when he finally came out to Darryl.