Paternity

[Hermetically Sealed]

That both dad and pops were essentially deciding things without taking Will into their confidence seems somewhat highhanded and while understandable, also somewhat out of character.

I don't know. Will hasn't been the most reasonable person in the last few stories. He tends to do what he wants, when he wants, and consequences be damned. I can imagine Brad thinking that rather than risk making things worse, it was better to try to do it on the downlow. Was it the best way to handle it, probably not. But then again, Will isn't known for his stellar choices unless he's led by the nose, and let's face it, Brad isn't the one to do that.

[Daddydavek]

I don't know. Will hasn't been the most reasonable person in the last few stories. He tends to do what he wants, when he wants, and consequences be damned. I can imagine Brad thinking that rather than risk making things worse, it was better to try to do it on the downlow. Was it the best way to handle it, probably not. But then again, Will isn't known for his stellar choices unless he's led by the nose, and let's face it, Brad isn't the one to do that.

 

Will was bound to find out sometime and dad and pops avoiding explaining the issue was only delaying things as it all escalated in Will's mind. Things on a boil don't usually simmer down without some careful handling and the parental units blew it. Actually Will's choices are usually pretty good when given all the facts beforehand (outside of a certain pole dance) and let's not hold that over him forever.

[Canuk]

I vented my spleen about Brad and Robbie's parenting skills in the review to the chapter. for those criticising Will remember he's a very worldly 14 yo. But he is still 14. he needs his dads. No matter how much money you have, children are not something that you "fit in" with the career. Fortunately for this story B & R's lack of parenting skills (and common sense) will create some very interesting plot developments.....

[Mark Arbour]

I vented my spleen about Brad and Robbie's parenting skills in the review to the chapter. for those criticising Will remember he's a very worldly 14 yo. But he is still 14. he needs his dads. No matter how much money you have, children are not something that you "fit in" with the career. Fortunately for this story B & R's lack of parenting skills (and common sense) will create some very interesting plot developments.....

 

I suspect Brad and Robbie will pay for their error with some significant discomfort over the weekend.

[Hermetically Sealed]

I don't know, I must have been a real oddball as a kid. Even at 14 I knew the presures that my parents and other adults were under when it came to work and trying to provide for us. Maybe it's just the way he is presented in just about every scene as being an ass, regardless of who he is with, I can't really see anyone wanting to be around him for long. If that is how most 14 year olds act, then I now get why I never got along with them when I was that age. I feel more sympathy for JJ than for him.

[PrivateTim]

I don't know, I must have been a real oddball as a kid. Even at 14 I knew the presures that my parents and other adults were under when it came to work and trying to provide for us. Maybe it's just the way he is presented in just about every scene as being an ass, regardless of who he is with, I can't really see anyone wanting to be around him for long. If that is how most 14 year olds act, then I now get why I never got along with them when I was that age. I feel more sympathy for JJ than for him.

 

Yes, a 14 year old, or any teen, who empathizes with or understands the pressures a parent is under is not the norm.

[methodwriter85]

I feel more sympathy for JJ than for him.

 

Same here. Of all of the kids, Will is the one who has the least amount of room to call himself "neglected." JJ can do it, but come on, this is the same dad who took Will on a private vacation to Hawaii about two or so months ago.

[B1ue]

Warning: I'm afraid I got quite rambly with this post, but oh well. Try to wade through it, if you can.

 

More likely they are getting advice from their lawyers about what they have to/ought to be doing.

 

Quick aside before I start: I don't think Brad and Robbie allowing a lawyer any say in what they can and cannot say to their own son is very likely. I think it's more likely they think Pat did sleep with Will. And had Will's full cooperation and permission.

 

In regards to the bruhaha, having been in something like Will's position, I can sympathize with his anger. It is annoying as fuck to be the youngest. Everyone tries to decide things in the background for you, quite often won't take the time to explain their decisions to you, and if you get pissed about it, you're dismissed as acting like a kid by people who arne't stopping to think how calmly they'd react to having absolutely no control over your own life.

 

Now that I'm older, I can see some of the whys. It's an added stress to figure out a way to explain already stressful situations in a way that a young person, who really doesn't have enough experience or knowledge to make informed decisions, can understand. Plus, no two people have the exact same priorities. There's a chance that you could explain everything neatly and simply, and the child still won't care, as we see Will acting. Their opinion may even be valid, according to their value system. So sometimes you jsut have to reach for the daddy button and decalre yourself boss of the situation. And hey, that's life.

 

Which, from the point of view of a person that just got their feet kicked out from underneath them, kind of sucks. It's doubly bad when it's a situation like Brad and Will, and the parent has tried to be more of a big brother than disiplinarian, and now wants to switch tactics. It's even worse when every adult seems to have the full story (because it's not their life and they aren't a child, so it's easier to tell them), and won't tell you. Because, again, not their life, they can't fully appreciate what the situation looks like from the dark instead of thier understanding.

 

I got pretty damn good at sneaking around and half-listening to conversations being had by people all the way across the house from where I was playing or reading, not because I am a natural spy, but because I got sick of not having all the information. Things like this incident with Brad and WIll just kept cropping up, where my sisters would know what was up, my parents would know, my cousin my age would know most of the bits, but no one bothered to try and give me a heads up until the decision was made and that was that. And that's when they bothered to tell me anything at all, occasionally I would have no idea why I suddnly had to change what I was doing or where I was going at the last moment (from my perspective, they'd been planning this trip or errand for some time). This sometimes resulted in my not following the script. One time I did my usual wednesday afterschool routine, when everyone had planned on my skipping Tae Kwon Do and going home with my cousin instead, since my parents had to go out of town to a funeral that night. Sorting through that mess took some time, luckily I was pretty resourceful at 11 and arranged ad-hoc my own ride home. And I'd known how to jimmy the garage lock for quite some time by then, so getting to bed and school the next morning was no problem. Wasn't until that afternoon I found out exactly what had gone wrong and what the plan had been.

 

Though, I must say, I never kidded myself that I had control, I always just wanted the information. That may be a personality quirk, as I've carried similar philosophies into my adulthood. Will does think he can control the situation, which is fairly amusing and as Tim said, very 14. I think he handled this incident poorly, his father poorly, and his dramatic declaration that his bodyguard would work for him would be a bit more fitting if he was actually earning the money he'd use to pay said guard. As it is, I'm kind of amused. Any point that he had, that his guard should be someone that he trusts, if it isn't possible to have someone he likes, was lost in the teenage rampage and pity act.

[rjo]

Part of what Jeremy said is true. Will has not been neglected until now. Maybe because of that Will misses Brad more. If Brad was never around for him in the past Will would not miss him as much. Pat is gone and now both Brad and Robbie. That is a lot for a 14yo to handle. I understand we are seeing it from Will's viewpoint, however it still seems like a very dumb move not to tell Will about what is a important part of his life. I wonder what Brad would have done if he was in Will's place. This situation makes JP and Isidore look like the perfect parents. Why did they have Stef tell Will? Where they to afraid to tell him themselves?

[MJ85]

When life imitates art...?

 

Seeing everyone else join in on the "pick on Will" bandwagon, just like what happened on his birthday, is starting to make me feel bad for him, and contrary to how everyone else is feeling.

[Canuk]

"Will has not been neglected until now": the problem is at 14 there is only "now". he feels ignored. full stop. period. end. he has no rational internal debate. and so he reacts. All he and most other 14yo boys (can't comment on the other sex) needs is to be included and know that you are there for them. Will's thick-as-two-planks parents haven't done that in this instance.....

[PrivateTim]

When life imitates art...?

 

Seeing everyone else join in on the "pick on Will" bandwagon, just like what happened on his birthday, is starting to make me feel bad for him, and contrary to how everyone else is feeling.

 

I'm not picking on Will, I was Will. He is my twin brotha from a different motha. I know exactly how he feels, but I also know that he is partly wrong too, just as I was at that age. You don't figure out until you are older. This is also not a new phenomenon. Mark Twain once said, “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." Even we don't have all the information we need to judge on if Robbie and Brad made the right decision because we don't know how or why they decided to withhold the information from Will. We don't know if they talked to each other, the police, their lawyer, JP and Stef, a prosecutor, etc so I am not ready to brand them bad parents.

 

But Will was speaking from an teen angst moment where it was all about him, and that was his only consideration. That makes him a typical teen, not a bad kid.

[Mark Arbour]

I wanted to share a couple of thoughts about this discussion. I'm really enjoying it, and it's very encouraging. I was kind of worried that I'd get people jumping on a bandwagon to either hate Brad and Robbie or to hate Will. I don't think it's an issue of bad parenting or a spoiled child, I think it's an issue, as many of you noted, of a strong-willed teenager clashing with parents over an issue he can't really externalize, much less internalize.

 

Though, I must say, I never kidded myself that I had control, I always just wanted the information. That may be a personality quirk, as I've carried similar philosophies into my adulthood. Will does think he can control the situation, which is fairly amusing and as Tim said, very 14. I think he handled this incident poorly, his father poorly, and his dramatic declaration that his bodyguard would work for him would be a bit more fitting if he was actually earning the money he'd use to pay said guard. As it is, I'm kind of amused. Any point that he had, that his guard should be someone that he trusts, if it isn't possible to have someone he likes, was lost in the teenage rampage and pity act.

 

You used the "C" word (Control), and I think that's a huge part of teen angst, of wanting to be able to make their own decisions and engineer their own environment, yet finding that they aren't allowed to (or aren't capable of) doing that. I think that Will is largely capable of making his own decisions, and I think he is basically able to judge what's best for him, and remember that in this world, money isn't an issue. Who pays for the guard is irrelevant, because he'd just as soon not even have one, or so he says.

 

Part of what Jeremy said is true. Will has not been neglected until now. Maybe because of that Will misses Brad more. If Brad was never around for him in the past Will would not miss him as much. Pat is gone and now both Brad and Robbie. That is a lot for a 14yo to handle. I understand we are seeing it from Will's viewpoint, however it still seems like a very dumb move not to tell Will about what is a important part of his life. I wonder what Brad would have done if he was in Will's place. This situation makes JP and Isidore look like the perfect parents. Why did they have Stef tell Will? Where they to afraid to tell him themselves?

 

Never listen to Jeremy. This is another key factor, and one that's burning up in Will's psyche. He and Brad used to be so close, but now he feels like they're not, and that the whole relationship has changed. I didn't spell out why Stef picked up Will, but since someone had to, and since Michael wouldn't have worked, it made sense for Stef to show up, since he and Will are tight. He probably found out about this whole situation, rolled his eyes, and figured he'd spend some time with Will and enlighten him.

 

"Will has not been neglected until now": the problem is at 14 there is only "now". he feels ignored. full stop. period. end. he has no rational internal debate. and so he reacts. All he and most other 14yo boys (can't comment on the other sex) needs is to be included and know that you are there for them. Will's thick-as-two-planks parents haven't done that in this instance.....

 

 

Wow. That is spot-on.

 

 

I'm not picking on Will, I was Will. He is my twin brotha from a different motha. I know exactly how he feels, but I also know that he is partly wrong too, just as I was at that age. You don't figure out until you are older. This is also not a new phenomenon. Mark Twain once said, “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." Even we don't have all the information we need to judge on if Robbie and Brad made the right decision because we don't know how or why they decided to withhold the information from Will. We don't know if they talked to each other, the police, their lawyer, JP and Stef, a prosecutor, etc so I am not ready to brand them bad parents.

 

But Will was speaking from an teen angst moment where it was all about him, and that was his only consideration. That makes him a typical teen, not a bad kid.

 

So is this one.

 

Here's the basic conflict. You have a parent who feels the need to protect his son and to try and set some tighter boundaries, more to protect him from himself than anything else. You have the teen, to whom this is directed, feeling like the parent who wants to impose those controls doesn't give a shit about him. Add to that his feeling of isolation, and you have a recipe for a nasty battle. It's not going to resolve itself until the two of them come to some meeting of the minds. I think the big piece that's missing from the equation in Brad's mind is that he doesn't realize just how fucked up Will is about losing Brad (to his other commitments) and Pat, and he doesn't realize how horrible it is for Will when he reaches out to other guys (like Robbie) and gets blown off as well. Will's trying to tell them that, but they're not getting the severity of the situation.

 

I think to put it into context, ask yourself this. If Will came home from school and had a problem, who would he talk to about it? Now, being a typical teen, he probably wouldn't want to talk to anyone, but he needs to know that if he does, someone will listen. Who would that be?

[PrivateTim]

If Will came home from school and had a problem, who would he talk to about it? Now, being a typical teen, he probably wouldn't want to talk to anyone, but he needs to know that if he does, someone will listen. Who would that be?

 

Gtafton, duh!

[rjo]

I wanted to share a couple of thoughts about this discussion. I'm really enjoying it, and it's very encouraging. I was kind of worried that I'd get people jumping on a bandwagon to either hate Brad and Robbie or to hate Will. I don't think it's an issue of bad parenting or a spoiled child, I think it's an issue, as many of you noted, of a strong-willed teenager clashing with parents over an issue he can't really externalize, much less internalize.

 

 

 

You used the "C" word (Control), and I think that's a huge part of teen angst, of wanting to be able to make their own decisions and engineer their own environment, yet finding that they aren't allowed to (or aren't capable of) doing that. I think that Will is largely capable of making his own decisions, and I think he is basically able to judge what's best for him, and remember that in this world, money isn't an issue. Who pays for the guard is irrelevant, because he'd just as soon not even have one, or so he says.

 

 

 

 

Here's the basic conflict. You have a parent who feels the need to protect his son and to try and set some tighter boundaries, more to protect him from himself than anything else. You have the teen, to whom this is directed, feeling like the parent who wants to impose those controls doesn't give a shit about him. Add to that his feeling of isolation, and you have a recipe for a nasty battle. It's not going to resolve itself until the two of them come to some meeting of the minds. I think the big piece that's missing from the equation in Brad's mind is that he doesn't realize just how fucked up Will is about losing Brad (to his other commitments) and Pat, and he doesn't realize how horrible it is for Will when he reaches out to other guys (like Robbie) and gets blown off as well. Will's trying to tell them that, but they're not getting the severity of the situation.

 

I think to put it into context, ask yourself this. If Will came home from school and had a problem, who would he talk to about it? Now, being a typical teen, he probably wouldn't want to talk to anyone, but he needs to know that if he does, someone will listen. Who would that be?

 

Growing up is not easy even for a rich kid. I have always liked Will. Maybe because he could be the improved Brad. He like so many teenagers he makes mistakes some of them are pretty big like dancing nude in a gay club. We also have to remember not long before that he was kidnapped and raped. Not only that but his father was also kidnapped. Will is not a person to suffer fools lightly. I think he got that from Brad. Just like Brad he was shy at first and then he changed into what he is. Some people think he is wild and spoiled. I can see why people would think that but standing up for yourself is a good thing in most cases. If Will would not have drawn attention to Jeanine's behavior would Brad and Robbie understood something was wrong? They must know Will and Michael don't get along. What I truly don't understand is why Brad who can make business deals in which millions of dollars could be lost but can't deal with his son. Maybe they are to much alike. I have a feeling Brad will be getting a lot of gray hair in the next few years. Will is a handful, JJ can be difficult too. I am glad Wade will be coming down to straighten things out. Only he can talk to both Brad and Will and help them see a common ground. Common ground is what both of them need. Sometimes love is not enough. It needs a reasonable person from the outside which cares about both parties too intercede. Wade.

Edited March 26, 2012 by rjo

[MJ85]

"It needs a reasonable person from the outside which cares about both parties too intercede. Wade."

 

Heh, looks like you got your wish, rjo. Let's hope this turn now through the last part of the chapter holds up.

[Mark Arbour]

"It needs a reasonable person from the outside which cares about both parties too intercede. Wade."

 

Heh, looks like you got your wish, rjo. Let's hope this turn now through the last part of the chapter holds up.

 

Uh, nope.

[methodwriter85]

Well, JJ, on one hand it's really nice to have your family come out and support you at competitions. On the other hand, you've got Will for a brother.

 

Seriously though- Daisy, have we been reflecting the drama accurately in this chapter? I really hope the tone was right. I imagine that stage moms are stage moms, whether it's in drama or in figure skating.

[MJ85]

Uh, nope.

 

Should've guessed I was asking for too much with that one...

[B1ue]

Some people think he is wild and spoiled.

Oh he's definetly wild and spoiled. These aren't necessarilly bad things, as you pointed out; you just have to know how to work around them and set your expectations accordingly. And as Wade pointed out, Will needs to figure out how to make his temper work for him instead of against him.

 

Also, Did Brad and Robbie know that Will couldn't stand Mike? I'm not sure Will ever made that clear to them until this situation arose. I remember there being some friction when Pat was starting to date someone and needed some emergency time off, but I can't remember if Brad or Robbie were involved in that.

[centexhairysub]

Just loved the latest chapter of Paternity, it was just enthralling... I really like how Will is willing to stand by Pat and do what is right because he believes in him. I do realize that Brad was trying to protect Will in some way, but he really went about it in all the wrong ways. I do sort of wonder who the person that Pat is involved with is, I have a feeling it is someone that we all already know...

 

I agree that right now Will and Brad need someone that can bridge the gap between them. Wade and Darius are probably the only two that are really capable of that at the moment; Robbie might have been able to at the start but now Will sees him as being in the wrong as well. I do think that Robbie probably understands the situation better now and he may be able to explain Will's side a little on his and Brad's getaway; but I think Brad is just as stubborn as Will is and I don't see this standoff ending soon.

 

Few fourteen year olds are truly able to manage their own lifes in a responsible manner; that being said, Will maybe able to come closer than most. I don't think that Brad and Robbie are really horrible parents, I have relatives that are so I do know what they look like. I just don't think that Brad and Robbie really understood how much Jeanine did when she was fully functioning and integrated into the family. Neither of them have really stepped up to take over all the functions that she dealt with on a daily and ongoing basis. Being a favorite Uncle, or so the little brats tell me, I do understand that sometimes the parents can't be the final answer to a problem; but they should at least be around enough to try and help find the solution...

[Mark Arbour]

Oh he's definetly wild and spoiled. These aren't necessarilly bad things, as you pointed out; you just have to know how to work around them and set your expectations accordingly. And as Wade pointed out, Will needs to figure out how to make his temper work for him instead of against him.

 

Also, Did Brad and Robbie know that Will couldn't stand Mike? I'm not sure Will ever made that clear to them until this situation arose. I remember there being some friction when Pat was starting to date someone and needed some emergency time off, but I can't remember if Brad or Robbie were involved in that.

 

Really great observations. As for Will not liking Michael, I think we have to assume that he's made his feelings known.

 

Just loved the latest chapter of Paternity, it was just enthralling... I really like how Will is willing to stand by Pat and do what is right because he believes in him. I do realize that Brad was trying to protect Will in some way, but he really went about it in all the wrong ways. I do sort of wonder who the person that Pat is involved with is, I have a feeling it is someone that we all already know...

 

I agree that right now Will and Brad need someone that can bridge the gap between them. Wade and Darius are probably the only two that are really capable of that at the moment; Robbie might have been able to at the start but now Will sees him as being in the wrong as well. I do think that Robbie probably understands the situation better now and he may be able to explain Will's side a little on his and Brad's getaway; but I think Brad is just as stubborn as Will is and I don't see this standoff ending soon.

 

Few fourteen year olds are truly able to manage their own lifes in a responsible manner; that being said, Will maybe able to come closer than most. I don't think that Brad and Robbie are really horrible parents, I have relatives that are so I do know what they look like. I just don't think that Brad and Robbie really understood how much Jeanine did when she was fully functioning and integrated into the family. Neither of them have really stepped up to take over all the functions that she dealt with on a daily and ongoing basis. Being a favorite Uncle, or so the little brats tell me, I do understand that sometimes the parents can't be the final answer to a problem; but they should at least be around enough to try and help find the solution...

 

And another astute observation. I'm not sure that Jeanine's departure has had as pronounced and effect on Will, but it's hard to say. I do think Brad and Robbie didn't realize how important THEY were to him on a daily basis, and how much those small contacts meant.

[PrivateTim]

I don't think a case of the "panics" is out of the question here for Brad and Robbie. Having an employee accused of a crime of this nature makes even the most sane parents crazy. They didn't handle it right, but they have experience that helps them make a better decision.

 

I am pretty sure they knew Will didn't like Michael, I am not sure they understood it was a mutually shared feeling between Michael and Will and that Michael used his position incorrectly.

 

I thought Brad and Will had worked out their issues earlier and had come to a place of understanding, but it just shows that as a parent you can't ever really relax or assume, you have to keep working at it.

 

I love that they are going to St Barts, the place where the self indulgent rich go to indulge. I think the Post Ranch Inn would have been sufficient. Robbie needs to stop getting travel advice from Uma Thurman and the Hollywood crowd.

[Daddydavek]

I don't think Brad and Robbie are bad parents but they did make a mistake in failing to 'handle' the situation with Pat and the impact on Will. All parents screw things up, especially from the point of view of the kids. Allowing the problem to escalate without making any attempt to manage it except by deferring dealing with it made it worse and provoked the strong reaction from Will. I really agree with Tim above: "... it just shows that as a parent you can't ever really relax or assume, you have to keep working at it."

 

 

Will's main points, made at the rink with JP and Steff while ignoring his dad and pops was a really well done and well written scenario.

 

Will's calling Pat back and telling him that his legal costs were covered was a mark of thoughtfulness and further reassured Pat that he was not being left hung out to dry.

 

I am really enjoying this interlude with Will!

 

In reply to my chapter review, Mark wrote:

"Thanks. I have a lot of personal experience with this kind of angst and rage. Makes it easy."

 

I was just wondering if Mark is more like JP or Brad???

[methodwriter85]

And another astute observation. I'm not sure that Jeanine's departure has had as pronounced and effect on Will, but it's hard to say. I do think Brad and Robbie didn't realize how important THEY were to him on a daily basis, and how much those small contacts meant.

 

If we're going on how you set up the parental relations during Millenium, Will was pretty much always Brad's kid and didn't really follow much of what Jeanine had to say. It's kind of funny that Will is Jeanine's actual biological child, but it was always JJ that she was closer to. I'm wondering if it's because of the circumstances of JJ's birth- here she was, this 20-year old girl, taking care of Darius and helping Marie make sure that Bitty didn't fall off the wagon during her pregnancy, then this pre-mature little thing is born on the 44th annivesary of Pearl Harbour with a crackhead for a mother. It's hard to imagine that she WOULDN'T have wanted to protect JJ at all costs, from day one, and that on some level Jeanine felt like JJ needed her more than her biological son did, because Will always had Brad. Darius had Robbie, JJ had Jeanine, and Will had Brad, and it worked. Until it didn't.

 

Favoritism. Leads to all sorts of fun things.

Edited March 28, 2012 by methodwriter85