Paternity

[Clydee]

I think this is an extremely important point. I haven't done any research on this (although it is tempting to dive into Google Scholar and see what comes up), anecdotally, I have to agree with you. I actually thought about posting a poll about this, but I think your observation about self-reporting bias would make the results useless anyway.

 

I'll give my own bias...I had a hell of a lot more than 11 partners before I turned 30. It was the times. I think if you ran the poll in the Bay area you'd need a Cray computer to keep up with the numbers...

[davewri]

As Mark said: "Plus you may want to remember that we are dealing with fiction here. A little exaggeration is allowed."

 

Multi Billionaire Steff as a role model.

Gay fathers

Gay cousins

Gay friends

Beach house in Malibu

Vacation house in Hawaii

JP's mansion

Private jets

Ferraris and Limos

Private school

Personal Security Guards

Lesbians having children with gay fathers

 

What part of Will's teenage life is "Normal" ? Will is in a position to have more sexual activity than most of us when we were at age 14. I daresay we all wish we could have lived the life of a " spoiled brat". If Mark writes it, I read it quickly, waiting for the next chapter. And I like it enough to check for the next posting every time I pass by my computer. It's fiction, and really well writen fiction at that.

[methodwriter85]

And you gotta remember that CAP is first and foremost a soap opera with erotic situations. It's like Queer as Folk meets Dallas meets The O.C. It's expected that if someone is a protagonist, they're going to have lots of sex, because that's what Mark wants to write- an erotic soap opera about a very slutty and rich family who dabble in politics and civic life on the side. That's what it's been since Chapter 1 of CAP, and that's what it'll remain unless Mark decides to change the tone of it.

[centexhairysub]

Okay, I was sitting in church this morning, trying to tune out the visiting preacher who was a little to fire and brimestone for me; when a very depressing thought occured to me... I have been just as guilty in the past as some have been recently about getting so worked up about a person or situation in the CAP series that all common sense just left me... For me it was when Gathan, in the reality of the story admitted that he had basically raped the first guy and first girl he was with. I got to thinking and I reacted as strongly to that situation or maybe even more so than some of the people are to Will's behaviour. Mea Culpa times three...

 

I think it is a mark of just how talented Mark's writing is that we can become so invested with the story and those that populate it that our passions overcome the better angels of our nature.

 

I really do want to apologize to anyone I have recently annoyed with my rants about getting so involved in a work of fiction that they were losing sight of reality. I have been just as guilty as everyone else just under different circumstances. I guess we all have certain issues that can push our buttons; Will's behaviour doesn't do it for me, but the idea of rape being treated fairly casually did for me....

[PrivateTim]

I think you're being just a bit prudish. Just saying.

 

Plus you may want to remember that we are dealing with fiction here. A little exaggeration is allowed.

 

I get the fiction and poetic license is allowed, but I think some do forget it is fiction.

 

Also not prudery, it is a number of things, some address Will's maturity, some address normal adolescent behavior and some address whether or not the behavior is healthy, not a question of its morality.

[Mark Arbour]

Okay, I was sitting in church this morning, trying to tune out the visiting preacher who was a little to fire and brimestone for me; when a very depressing thought occured to me... I have been just as guilty in the past as some have been recently about getting so worked up about a person or situation in the CAP series that all common sense just left me... For me it was when Gathan, in the reality of the story admitted that he had basically raped the first guy and first girl he was with. I got to thinking and I reacted as strongly to that situation or maybe even more so than some of the people are to Will's behaviour. Mea Culpa times three...

 

I think it is a mark of just how talented Mark's writing is that we can become so invested with the story and those that populate it that our passions overcome the better angels of our nature.

 

I really do want to apologize to anyone I have recently annoyed with my rants about getting so involved in a work of fiction that they were losing sight of reality. I have been just as guilty as everyone else just under different circumstances. I guess we all have certain issues that can push our buttons; Will's behaviour doesn't do it for me, but the idea of rape being treated fairly casually did for me....

 

Then you must be thrilled to death with Todd Akin. Welcome to Missouri. Scary.

 

Anyway, I get what you're saying, but I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Everyone's been civil in this forum, especially by GA standards, and I know that my stories are going to push more buttons than others might. Sometimes that's intentional, and sometimes it just happens. Makes me think. I like that.

[methodwriter85]

For me, it's not an easy read because the last time I saw my dad was when I was 9 years old in 1995 and he hasn't tried to contact us since even though we know he's alive, so anything about being a father can hit at some pretty deep parts within my psyche.

 

Anyway, back to the other post- it was kind of funny the bit about private school, gay fathers, and lesbians having children being part of the weirdness that is Will's life. In Delaware, private schools are pretty big- it's not even a rich person thing- people who are just middle class tend to send their kids to private school, or charter/magnet schools. It's a function of having a pretty bad public school system, which never recovered from the forced busing desegregation plan that was implemented from 1978 to 1995. The public school system got gutted, and as a result almost anyone who had the means to send their kids to private, with charters/magnets as the back-up. In 8th grade, picking out where you're going to high school is like a practice run of the college application process. The best option is private, second-best would be charter/magnet, third would be choicing into a decent district if your own district sucks, and the worst is having to go to your crappy feeder pattern traditional public school. I lucked into getting into a performing arts magnet school instead of having to go to my feeder pattern school. As a result of my experience, I'm a firm believer in getting rid of traditional public schools and see charter schools/magnet schools as the wave of the future.

 

Over at my high school, we had openly gay teachers who were raising kids with their partners, and an openly lesbian principal who had used a sperm donor to become pregnant. We saw her wife a couple times around the school. Delaware has second-parent adoption laws that makes it easier for gay couples to raise families, which is probably why I've had a fair amount of role models in that regard. (If I were so inclined to do so, which right now I'm not.)

 

So yeah, Tim, Delaware's not the redneck backwater you seem to think it is.;-) (Well, the Northern part above the canal, anyway.)

Edited August 21, 2012 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

Then you must be thrilled to death with Todd Akin. Welcome to Missouri. Scary.

 

Oh please, he is a pussycat compared to the screwballs here in Texas... Hell in Texas, Todd Akin is almost to moderate to be in the Naz.. I mean the Republican party....

[centexhairysub]

Well, I really enjoyed the new chapter. Will seems to be getting all his ducks in a row. I thought Will's interaction with his lawyer and then with his therapist were well played out. I am sort of suprised that Will would not be more aware of the trust being held for him and more in tune with the family trust. In most families at this level of wealth, the kids are aware pretty early on how much money is there and when it becomes avaliable for their consumption. I sort of doubt the only trust that he has are the ones his grandmother set up, I am assuming Tonto but I guess really it could have been Marie Crampton as well. Marie always treated Brad as equal to Ace and Claire.

 

I thought Jeff's reaction was a little sketchy. Did he come over as jealous or was he just preoccupied? I wonder who his date was with? Tony at midnight would be a great way to finish off Will's exciting day or start the next one. I can say, that I wish Will would stick to sex partners a little closer to his age, both Tony and Jeff are just outside that area. There really could be legal ramifications for both although I think the family would make sure that didn't happen. I get that Will is physically more mature than most of the other 14 year olds around, but every 15 or 16 year old in the state of California just turned straight? LOL...

 

I am not sure but by their reaction and the very fact that Claire and Jack were there; I sort of believe that at least JP and Claire were already aware of Will's move against Brad. I think in a scene we haven't seen yet, Wade probably already told JP to give him a heads up and JP decided to bring Claire in as well. I might be wrong about Claire but I would just about bet Will's trust fund that JP already knew...

 

Damn... I forgot to tell you great job Mark; I can't wait for the next chapter although I do think you owe us two from Bridgemont before the next Paternity

Edited August 21, 2012 by centexhairysub

[MJ85]

I kinda felt like this chapter was just nudging things forward - I was expecting to see at least some kind of fireworks already.

[BeysJoshersLepton V2]

Its amazing how one chapter I can be annoyed terribley with Will then the very next I enjoy him throughly. I've gone over and re-read the last few with Will, I think its when he comes across as Indignent or center of the universe (standard 14 year old - shows how well hes written) he annoys me. I felt the school scenes were very telling in regard to his upcoming leaving and Will generally. Finding it all very annoying and bothersome is to ensure the change isn't painful, I think he may be bothered by his freind Ryan having a gf and he isn't able to settle into the traditional paradigm of having a stable relationship (thats why he found it to be a "nightmare"). I think he may want this with Tony at some stage but currently I do think hes happier being a free agent, hence why current school relationships being such an odd concept. I fear this is due to his general over sexualisation, but that isn't to say he can't grasp it eventually.

 

Enjoyed the therapy scene, liked your nod at us being very conscientious about time keeping. Jeff oddly I felt indifferent about, I'm not sure why. Perhaps I feel he can do better, but then I wouldn't really suggest Tony either as he has his own skeletons (though who doesnt). Alas as we all know we can't help who find attractive/love, I think thats a concept when it finally hits Will, shall do so hard. Deep romantic love being so vastly different from just the physical act of sex, well at least thats how I've seen it. But at 14 I think hes a long way of from that really. Especially when you consider 'Love' follows the same reward pathways as various addictive substances. I once read a journal on love and people in love were asked would you die for them? They responded yes as casually as one asking to pass the salt. That isn't my litmus test on love but it always made me laugh.

 

I especially liked how he laid his plans out though, thats the Will who proves to me he isn't just posturing or trying to get a one up on Daddy (as with his verbal arguments). I really do hope they can eventually reach common ground, this emancipation thing I think will hit Brad very hard. Simply because Will's for all intensive purposes saying you aren't fit to be my parent.

[methodwriter85]

My guess as to why Will hasn't had more 15 or 16-year old school love interests is because Harvard-Westlake's 9th grade is still part of the junior high, so he's only around guys who are 12 to 14 at school. I'm assuming that if/when Will goes to Menlo School, he'll meet sophomores, juniors, and seniors that he'll probably try to date. Most 14-year old guys aren't like Will- most are still pretty awkward physically so it makes sense that Will would be into older guys. It was like the 8th/9th grade girls I knew that would date juniors/seniors- 'cause junior year is usually when everyone's past their awkward stage and looking their best. I know junior year for me was when my skin cleared up and my voice finally stopped sounding like a girl's.

 

The other thing is that by the time someone's 18 and in college, they're usually past the "puppy dog" love deal, and they're much more okay with hooking up and not settling down into relationship, as opposed to the intense "we'll be together forever" love that people have in middle school and high school. Since Will no longer wants that, it makes more sense he's chasing after college-aged guys, because you're more tuned into the hook-up mindset in college.

Edited August 21, 2012 by methodwriter85

[BeysJoshersLepton V2]

You Americans and your schooling years, we're all stuffed together from 11-16 then 16-18. I still don't see Will actually dating period, till hes into his late teens or early twenties. I was a terrible looking 14 year old haha xD

[methodwriter85]

You Americans and your schooling years, we're all stuffed together from 11-16 then 16-18. I still don't see Will actually dating period, till hes into his late teens or early twenties. I was a terrible looking 14 year old haha xD

 

I was, too. The summer I was 14, I bleached my hair and dyed it a shimmery blue color. Manic Panic was my friend from about 13 to 16. There was one hideous time where I had shaved off all my hair except my bangs, bleached them and dyed it red, and then spiked them.

 

The thing about dating- I remember that in Be Rad, Brad really wanted to have a relationship like the one Stefan and Greg had- they were like his role models for a gay partnership. By the time Will was growing up, he didn't quite have that role model. Brad and Robbie's relationship blew apart when Will was 13, and while Will was obsessed with having a partner in Poor Man's Son I don't think it was necessarily about wanting to have something like what Brad and Robbie had. I wouldn't be surprised if Will had something of a Gay Man's Nifty Cinderella Effect, as in Will had read too many Gay Nifty Stories and believed in the Happily Ever After. But when John, Italian Boy, and Tony blew apart that illusion, Will got embarrassed and didn't want to get carried away again like that. So he put a wall up and switched to 'hook-up only mode', and hasn't looked back.

 

It works better this way, because while 'happily ever after' works if you're only having a protagonist do 2 or 3 stories, it won't work over a lot of stories. From a soap opera standpoint, it keeps things more wide open if Will doesn't get settled down into something serious like Brad did with Robbie in Be Rad, or Matt did with Wade in Bloodlines.

Edited August 21, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Westie]

You Americans and your schooling years, we're all stuffed together from 11-16 then 16-18. I still don't see Will actually dating period, till hes into his late teens or early twenties. I was a terrible looking 14 year old haha xD

 

Unless you went to a prep and then public school, in which case Prep was from 7-13 and then Public (i.e. Private) school was from 13-18.

[Mark Arbour]

Well, I really enjoyed the new chapter. Will seems to be getting all his ducks in a row. I thought Will's interaction with his lawyer and then with his therapist were well played out. I am sort of suprised that Will would not be more aware of the trust being held for him and more in tune with the family trust. In most families at this level of wealth, the kids are aware pretty early on how much money is there and when it becomes avaliable for their consumption. I sort of doubt the only trust that he has are the ones his grandmother set up, I am assuming Tonto but I guess really it could have been Marie Crampton as well. Marie always treated Brad as equal to Ace and Claire.

 

I thought Jeff's reaction was a little sketchy. Did he come over as jealous or was he just preoccupied? I wonder who his date was with? Tony at midnight would be a great way to finish off Will's exciting day or start the next one. I can say, that I wish Will would stick to sex partners a little closer to his age, both Tony and Jeff are just outside that area. There really could be legal ramifications for both although I think the family would make sure that didn't happen. I get that Will is physically more mature than most of the other 14 year olds around, but every 15 or 16 year old in the state of California just turned straight? LOL...

 

I am not sure but by their reaction and the very fact that Claire and Jack were there; I sort of believe that at least JP and Claire were already aware of Will's move against Brad. I think in a scene we haven't seen yet, Wade probably already told JP to give him a heads up and JP decided to bring Claire in as well. I might be wrong about Claire but I would just about bet Will's trust fund that JP already knew...

 

Damn... I forgot to tell you great job Mark; I can't wait for the next chapter although I do think you owe us two from Bridgemont before the next Paternity

 

I think Jeff is having a tougher time being casual about this than Will is, which is why his attitude can sometime seem a little odd.

 

It's quite possible (as I've noted in the reviews) that Wade told JP about Will's conversation with Sean. With JP, it would be hard to tell, because he can be so stone-like (and sometimes, he's just stoned. )

 

Its amazing how one chapter I can be annoyed terribley with Will then the very next I enjoy him throughly. I've gone over and re-read the last few with Will, I think its when he comes across as Indignent or center of the universe (standard 14 year old - shows how well hes written) he annoys me. I felt the school scenes were very telling in regard to his upcoming leaving and Will generally. Finding it all very annoying and bothersome is to ensure the change isn't painful, I think he may be bothered by his freind Ryan having a gf and he isn't able to settle into the traditional paradigm of having a stable relationship (thats why he found it to be a "nightmare"). I think he may want this with Tony at some stage but currently I do think hes happier being a free agent, hence why current school relationships being such an odd concept. I fear this is due to his general over sexualisation, but that isn't to say he can't grasp it eventually.

 

Enjoyed the therapy scene, liked your nod at us being very conscientious about time keeping. Jeff oddly I felt indifferent about, I'm not sure why. Perhaps I feel he can do better, but then I wouldn't really suggest Tony either as he has his own skeletons (though who doesnt). Alas as we all know we can't help who find attractive/love, I think thats a concept when it finally hits Will, shall do so hard. Deep romantic love being so vastly different from just the physical act of sex, well at least thats how I've seen it. But at 14 I think hes a long way of from that really. Especially when you consider 'Love' follows the same reward pathways as various addictive substances. I once read a journal on love and people in love were asked would you die for them? They responded yes as casually as one asking to pass the salt. That isn't my litmus test on love but it always made me laugh.

 

I especially liked how he laid his plans out though, thats the Will who proves to me he isn't just posturing or trying to get a one up on Daddy (as with his verbal arguments). I really do hope they can eventually reach common ground, this emancipation thing I think will hit Brad very hard. Simply because Will's for all intensive purposes saying you aren't fit to be my parent.

 

I really like that you have these bipolar attitudes toward Will. That means I'm writing him as a teenager correctly. Kudos to you for figuring Will out, and noting that his smart-ass attitude can happen at anytime, even when he's relatively happy, but when he's really pissed off, he's going to be organized and proactive, and change his life around.

 

My guess as to why Will hasn't had more 15 or 16-year old school love interests is because Harvard-Westlake's 9th grade is still part of the junior high, so he's only around guys who are 12 to 14 at school. I'm assuming that if/when Will goes to Menlo School, he'll meet sophomores, juniors, and seniors that he'll probably try to date. Most 14-year old guys aren't like Will- most are still pretty awkward physically so it makes sense that Will would be into older guys. It was like the 8th/9th grade girls I knew that would date juniors/seniors- 'cause junior year is usually when everyone's past their awkward stage and looking their best. I know junior year for me was when my skin cleared up and my voice finally stopped sounding like a girl's.

 

The other thing is that by the time someone's 18 and in college, they're usually past the "puppy dog" love deal, and they're much more okay with hooking up and not settling down into relationship, as opposed to the intense "we'll be together forever" love that people have in middle school and high school. Since Will no longer wants that, it makes more sense he's chasing after college-aged guys, because you're more tuned into the hook-up mindset in college.

 

I think this is an incredibly astute observation on why Will hasn't been dating 15-17 year old guys. As you noted, he's been in an institution where most of his peers are so much younger than him (from a physical maturity point of view). He's the kind of guy who desperately needs to be in a traditional high school environment (9-12th grade). Ironically enough, the set up at H-W is probably much better for JJ.

[GLH]

Random thought: Although I tend to side with Will due to the trauma he's suffered and my perceived lack of consideration from his family, I can't help but feel sorry for Brad and the blindside he's about to suffer. I think Brad's been pretty boneheaded about Will (with the occasional flash of cogent thought), but I still can't help but empathize since what lies ahead for him will be gut wrenching, to put it mildly.

Edited August 24, 2012 by GLH

[Mark Arbour]

Random thought: Although I tend to side with Will due to the trauma he's suffered and my perceived lack of consideration from his family, I can't help but feel sorry for Brad and the blindside he's about to suffer. I think Brad's been pretty boneheaded about Will (with the occasional flash of cogent thought), but I still can't help but empathize since what lies ahead for him will be gut wrenching, to put it mildly.

 

As good as he is with some situations, Brad seems remarkably bad when dealing with Will. I think this can be largely attributed to how similar they are. My personal experience is that it's tough to get along with someone who is like me. None of you are probably surprised by that.

[methodwriter85]

As good as he is with some situations, Brad seems remarkably bad when dealing with Will. I think this can be largely attributed to how similar they are. My personal experience is that it's tough to get along with someone who is like me. None of you are probably surprised by that.

 

In my case, I'm going to laugh my ass off when a certain e-novelist we both know and love deals with his son entering his teens in about 7-8 years. Holy hell, that'll be hilarious.

 

They are pretty similiar, but I do think that Brad tends to view things in grey, while Will is very firmly convinced that he knows what's wrong and right, and will never consciously do something he believes is the wrong thing. That might be a function of Brad's age, but even in high school, Brad didn't seem all that much interested in standing up for the right thing- he tended to accept the status quo whereas Will seems like he wants to change it for the betterment of others. Probably the most glaring example of this would be his blackmail of the USFSA association in the hopes that it make it okay to be openly gay in figure skating.

 

That's why you can't really recreate Be Rad here...part of the running thread in Be Rad was that Brad started off the story a pretty shallow, somewhat mean-spirited Social King who would easily throw someone under the bus if it meant maintaining his social status because he loved the power that went with it. He didn't care about making things better unless it was in his face, like Mouse. It wasn't until he dealt with getting outed and having his brother die that Brad changed a bit, but he wasn't all that nice of a person at the start of the story. I'm not saying Will's perfect, but I do think he's generally a nice kid in a way that Brad wasn't. He never would have done what Brad did to Doug Childers, that's for sure. Brad tended to treat his friends like chess pieces to move around to do his bidding, while Will's more empathetic than that. Or at least tries to be, despite having the typical self-centered attitude of a teenager.

Edited August 25, 2012 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

Damn... The new chapter of Paternity is up and well damn... I sort of thought that when he realized that everyone was aligned against him Brad would realize how he was acting and suddenly have a revelation but that just doesn't seem to have happened. I think that Brad is actually suprised that anyone else is taking Will's side in all of this. Mark made a point in a post earlier about how hard it is to deal with someone that is so much like yourself and I think that is really true. The biggest conflicts I have ever had is always with someone on my same wavelength, those that are really different from me seem to be easier to work with in the end. I was sort of hoping that Jack would step up and come down firmly on one side or the other. I can't seem Jack opposing Claire in the end but you know he has to feel for Brad and what he is going through. That is one reason I was hoping that Jack would say something, Brad and Jack have always been so tight that maybe he could have gotten through to Brad.

 

Okay, I am about to head to bed so I will probably post more after I let my feeling marinate and reread the chapter in the morning...

[MJ85]

It's strange. We're underway with Will's attempt at emancipation, yet...it still feels like we're going through the motions of moving forward, probably because we've all predicted the reactions of all the key players involved already. I feel like I'm waiting for a truly big, "surprise!" to really factor in here. Having a sheriff's screw up mess things up for Will just seemed kinda...lame.

 

As to Matt - if I remember right, wasn't he denied the chance to hook up with Robbie a couple years back? No wonder he's taking their side. If I was Wade, I'd be "cutting him off" that night.

[PrivateTim]

I wonder what Jeff thinks. I also wonder what Wade really thinks. I wonder what any kid who has really suffered at the hands of bad or brutal father would think about Will's perceptions of his father. Have Brad's decisions really been bad or is Will being petulant that he wasn't consulted? Was the decision to just give Michael severance and send him on his way that bad of a decision and is there more to that dismissal than we know? The Pat thread has been dropped from the story (or so it seems), but was dismissing Pat a bad decision? For the life of me I can't see the mountain of bad decisions that Brad had made that make him a bad father and certainly not compared to kids who really have had bad fathers.

[Daddydavek]

I didn't find anything about the chapter lame. There was plenty of bullheadedness, a little whining and some raised voices as well as some real concern, compassion and a sense of tragedy.

 

Brad has gotten his way for so long that he has forgotten something important. Until he has some insight as to what is going on and why "his" family is no longer supporting him and following his lead, his former relationship with the family could be ruined. I think he is starting to get that he has somehow in his dealings with Will, let down JP & Steff as well as Claire and the rest of the family. I'm just not sure that he realizes just how much at this point! As I said in my review, I hope he has a true epiphany soon!

[Westie]

As to Matt - if I remember right, wasn't he denied the chance to hook up with Robbie a couple years back? No wonder he's taking their side. If I was Wade, I'd be "cutting him off" that night.

 

I don't think father-son incest was ever on the cards. He and Brad, however, did nearly go there.

 

I can understand why Matt sides with Robbie; he feels like Robbie is the only reason he belongs there at all. However, Matt of all people would have understood and applauded Will's sluttiness in Norway.

[JimCarter]

Call in Granger. A visit or two with the Gunner's Daughter and Will might realize the world doesn't revolve around him.