Odyssey

[Westie]

I think some of you may be expecting too much here regarding Granger and his release. Here are the salient facts:

 

(1) Granger is a man of honour

 

To a man like Granger, honour comes before all else.  The betray your honour is to stain not only your family but also your King.  With that in mind, even if a rescue party came to Paris to break him out, I doubt very much that he would go along with them.  Unless the King had accepted an unconditional surrender from the French, Granger would feel bound by his promise not to escape.

 

(2) Parole is granted only when the last advantage has been extracted

 

The whole concept of parole is that it is convenient for both sides.  For the captor, it removes a threat while at the same time ensuring they don't have to spend money guarding a prisoner.  For the Captive, it means gaining freedom in exchange for a promise not to fight until a suitable exchange has taken place.  BUT, parole will only be offered when it is convenient for the Captor.  At the moment, the French are using Granger for propaganda - to show their own people that they are winning.  Only when Granger no longer serves in this purpose (i.e. when the novelty has worn) will he be offered parole.

 

(3) When parole is a matter already agreed, you have nothing to lose by pretending its a favour

 

We already KNOW that the directory have taken the decision to parole Granger "eventually".  We also know that the King of Spain is the junior partner in their little alliance.  What a great way to make the King of Spain feel like he has some influence than by doing something that you were going to do anyway, but make it look like you are doing it for the King's benefit?

 

Just a few things to ponder I guess

 

West
 

[ricky]

Salient party-pooper: Westie

 

[Mark Arbour]

I think some of you may be expecting too much here regarding Granger and his release. Here are the salient facts:

 

(1) Granger is a man of honour

 

To a man like Granger, honour comes before all else.  The betray your honour is to stain not only your family but also your King.  With that in mind, even if a rescue party came to Paris to break him out, I doubt very much that he would go along with them.  Unless the King had accepted an unconditional surrender from the French, Granger would feel bound by his promise not to escape.

 

(2) Parole is granted only when the last advantage has been extracted

 

The whole concept of parole is that it is convenient for both sides.  For the captor, it removes a threat while at the same time ensuring they don't have to spend money guarding a prisoner.  For the Captive, it means gaining freedom in exchange for a promise not to fight until a suitable exchange has taken place.  BUT, parole will only be offered when it is convenient for the Captor.  At the moment, the French are using Granger for propaganda - to show their own people that they are winning.  Only when Granger no longer serves in this purpose (i.e. when the novelty has worn) will he be offered parole.

 

(3) When parole is a matter already agreed, you have nothing to lose by pretending its a favour

 

We already KNOW that the directory have taken the decision to parole Granger "eventually".  We also know that the King of Spain is the junior partner in their little alliance.  What a great way to make the King of Spain feel like he has some influence than by doing something that you were going to do anyway, but make it look like you are doing it for the King's benefit?

 

Just a few things to ponder I guess

 

West

 

 

:wub:

[Daddydavek]

:wub:

OK now we know that Lord Arbour has undying respect for his British resource and all around fount of wisdom, Westie!  

 

And yes, anyone who can espouse salient facts as logically and convincingly as Westie is a treasure!

[Mark Arbour]

OK now we know that Lord Arbour has undying respect for his British resource and all around fount of wisdom, Westie!  

 

And yes, anyone who can espouse salient facts as logically and convincingly as Westie is a treasure!

 

His brain is hot.

[Westie]

:wub:

 

Blush...  

 

OK now we know that Lord Arbour has undying respect for his British resource and all around fount of wisdom, Westie!  

 

And yes, anyone who can espouse salient facts as logically and convincingly as Westie is a treasure!

Double Blush   

His brain is hot.

 OK, now we need Sharon to come along and deflate my head with some witty yet effective put down...

[sat8997]

She's too busy right now working on several chapters and trying to figure out when she's going to have time to bake pies and that damn fruitcake. Witty takes too much effort. Witty yet effective is beyond the realm of possibility.

[Suvitar]

I´ve finally caught up with the story. Really enjoyed reading about George´s adventures and all the other characters have been great as well. I´ve always loved history and always been interested in British history. Loved all the pictures, all those impressive looking ships and handsome men in their uniforms. 

[sandrewn]

I just saw that you posted. I haven't read it yet. Just wanted to thank you in advance. Thank you.

[Daddydavek]

First off, loved the part with Granger stressing over Eastwyck after the pucker stroke and the positive outcome.   George is always a little obsessive.  

 

The funeral for Robey was a backdrop to Caroline's meeting with Calvert and Gatling.  Another of George's former crew is lost.  That it afforded Caroline the opportunity to share the good news from the bankers was welcomed.   That they also were able to clarify their feelings and get past their past misunderstandings was a real boon.

 

I still think this book in the Granger saga could be over in as few as 5-6 chapters and that makes me sad.    

[rjo]

Those of us, who want to see George return home, know that it has to be the beginning of the end of this book. George coming home is total Joy, but the end of one of the best book you have written brings sadness. Still i hope George comes home soon, say for Christmas.

[ricky]

I knew she'd forgive them. I'm not one to say I told you so, BUT! Nanny Nanny boo boo.

A great chapter.

So if Calvert's ship is lost at sea then she will feel awful. And we'd be out one cute midshipman.

It just seems that Mark is clearing the deck of character's who no longer really have a storyline of their own. But we didn't hear from Winkler.

 

Now listen up Mark, though shalt not mess with the Winkler. It's bad enough you're gonna probably off Gatling.

Calvert . . . eh, not so much. Donagel can go as well. George still has Freddie Cavendish anyways and as he has said so many times, he is the only one that can make George raise his head in rage of Jealousy. I like him the best of the choices anyways.

 

BTW, Vienna is TOTALLY awesome.

[sandrewn]

Could someone clarify if parole and exchange are the same thing or two separate items. When Roberts was picked up at Gibraltar was that an exchange? Then when George dropped Don Jacobo Stuart off in Roses, was he still under parole until an official exchange could be arranged and if so did that mean he was honor bound not to fight until such time? Or was that an actual exchange?

 

I bring this up because the last para or two of chapter 71 made me wonder about it. This last chapter was a great one, thank you.

[ricky]

Could someone clarify if parole and exchange are the same thing or two separate items. When Roberts was picked up at Gibraltar was that an exchange? Then when George dropped Don Jacobo Stuart off in Roses, was he still under parole until an official exchange could be arranged and if so did that mean he was honor bound not to fight until such time? Or was that an actual exchange?

 

I bring this up because the last para or two of chapter 71 made me wonder about it. This last chapter was a great one, thank you.

If you remember the young midshipmen he paroled to his father off the south american coast was given a letter for that very reason. His father said that he was to know that he could not fight until a proper exchange took place.

[sandrewn]

My bad, I went back  and looked, it makes clear they are separate. I wonder how Don Jacobo handled that. That would mean those hundred men and officer he paroled in Valdivia would not be able (in theory) to take up arms until Spain could arrange an  exchange, this could take half a year or more.

 

 

 

BTW, glad you a had a good trip. I also found the natives (Viennese) to be friendly and ready to party.

[Mark Arbour]

My bad, I went back  and looked, it makes clear they are separate. I wonder how Don Jacobo handled that. That would mean those hundred men and officer he paroled in Valdivia would not be able (in theory) to take up arms until Spain could arrange an  exchange, this could take half a year or more.

 

 

 

BTW, glad you a had a good trip. I also found the natives (Viennese) to be friendly and ready to party.

 

I think that the exchange would have been with Don Jacobo and Roberts.  In that case, once both were exchanged (Roberts was released as well), then both were free to fight again.  Until that time, they have to chill out.

 

That's very likely going to be Granger's situation when he returns to England.  He's paroled, so that means he can't have another command even if he wants one (he will). 

[sandrewn]

1.

 

I think that the exchange would have been with Don Jacobo and Roberts.  In that case, once both were exchanged (Roberts was released as well), then both were free to fight again.  Until that time, they have to chill out.

 

On reflection it should of been obvious to me. The only reason I didn't consider it, was the equivalency. A Lt and a dozen or so men in exchange for a Commodore and all his ships' Officers. It seemed like an insult to the Spanish.

 

 

2.

 

Reply from Mark Arbour (author)

You know this is fiction when the banks come through for someone. (SMILE).

 

This appears to be a timeless Truism. It could/should be engraved  in stone for all the ages.

I doubt many if any would disagree (except a Banker).

 

 

3.

Reply from Mark Arbour (author)

Thanks for the review. Well, living in those times was a risky thing, and life expectancy was pretty short, so we'll end up with more mortality in this story.
 

Kill them all off (well, a few more anyways). Just leave Joshua Winkler alone, please. You have worked him into my heart.

I mean, Batman wouldn't be the same without Alfred Pennyworth backing him up.

Nor would Young Frankenstein have been half as good without Igor (see clip below).

▶ Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein - "Whose Brain I did put in?" - YouTube

 

 

 

Please oh great and all powerful Author, spare him. Thank you in advance for your grace.

 

[Mark Arbour]

 

 

 

 

On reflection it should of been obvious to me. The only reason I didn't consider it, was the equivalency. A Lt and a dozen or so men in exchange for a Commodore and all his ships' Officers. It seemed like an insult to the Spanish.

 

 

That's an interesting point, and I did some research on this.  During the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars, the British captured many more prisoners than the French did, so it was not unusual for a more junior British officer to be traded for a more senior French officer.  Chalk that up to economics: supply and demand.  ;-)

[JimCarter]

What about all those officers they released after the battle of the Nile, couldn't some of them count toward Granger's release?

 

You know me, I want to see Granger back trying to get a ship ready for sea duty as soon as possible, just think of all those midshipmen out there needing his excellent guidance.  

[ricky]

What about all those officers they released after the battle of the Nile, couldn't some of them count toward Granger's release?

 

You know me, I want to see Granger back trying to get a ship ready for sea duty as soon as possible, just think of all those midshipmen out there needing his excellent guidance.  

Hmmm, the spin off. "The Royal Navel Academy" (More fun than the Naval kind)

[sandrewn]

Once again our Master Weaver has found that one special thread that will help bring things together. Two ships in the night, Calvert off to the west Indies, Granger finally going home. The one person who could fill in all that had happened to both ships, their crews and officers. Also a chance to say good bye. Your good Mark, damn good. Thank you. Now he will arrive home prepared and ready to dive back in come what may upon his arrival.

[Daddydavek]

The meeting of the Santa Clarita by Grangers ship is certainly serendipitous for the reasons Sandrewn mentioned above and because when all is said and done, Calvert is special to George as is Gatling.  My hope is that they get to fill George in on everything that happened.   My question is how close are they to the mouth of the Thames?

[ricky]

I think George will understand Calvert and Gatling's relationship. And as Mr Eastwyk has kept him well stretched his hormones won't be making him crazy. Perhaps a 3 way will be permissible? After all, Mr Gatling has enjoyed George a time or two himself. There visit won't be long anyways, the captain will want to offload his cargo in England and Calvert has orders.

But he can get word of his family. So this will be emotional. Even for George.

 

I think that even the King might step out of his role for a moment and show some emotion. Not publicly of course. But then again, to have the king offer both hands to George in Welcome would be a singular honor. And of course its probably just not done. But for George it would be worth more than riches.

[sandrewn]

Kookie / Rosicky / Ricky, all observed the opportunity  this chance encounter presents to Donegal. He mentioned before to Granger that he might like to join up with his friend, Patrick O'Higgins in Chile. Santa Clarita would take him in the right direction to do so. Granger might send a note along with him, addressed to his grandfather, asking him to assist Donegal in his journey, via the Caribbean and then across the Isthmus. I don't know if he would want to stay on as servant to Calvert, after working for Granger, who would.

[ricky]

Calvert is someone he knows. Better the devil you know then the devil you don't. And it's preferable to the prison or a rope. And THIS makes the 1100th post!