Odyssey

[Daddydavek]

I liked Canuck's review of Chapter 75 but you can't "like" a review so I have to give a shout-out here!

[ricky]

A delicious chapter! A full meal to digest. Much was said and much was suggested. So let me get started.

 

First, I'm most anxious to find out what Spencer has to say. What new situation is he about to unleash? We know he is involved in the guild because of his treatment of Dr Jackson's situation. But who is the power behind it all? Why do I suspect a Mann, Wilcox or Fox involvement? These issues are usually resolved by following the money. Now, Cavendish mentioned the smuggling but did not mention if they indeed caught them on this end.

 

When he goes to his tailor he'll need to get a lobster outfit as well won't he? Being a Col of the Marines, won't he? I'm sure there will be moments he will need it. It should really trip Arthur's trigger as he loves a man in uniform and this would be the material that fantasies were created from. His greatest love in a new uniform. And speaking of Arthur, why would having Arthur's support mean anything to the Duke of Clarence? Does that mean he was instrumental in Jardine's banishment?

 

And no appearance by Mr Fox at the hazard table tonight. So it WAS an exceptional evening. I'm sure that Fitzwilliam can not be happy in the channel fleet. But it's a good place to wait until George has a new ship. Eastwyck, Llewellyn, Fitzwilliam. He's already piecing together his new team.

 

Something Cavendish mentioned. That the Earle had been favored by the King but little recompense for his service. This statement causes some questions. First, why has he not been honored? Is it because it is well known that Freddie would squander anything bestowed upon the Earle? Did he request any further benefit due to him be directed toward George instead? Basically throwing the Marguesad to happen to the deserving son of honor? Such an act of Nobility would be in line with his father. And such a discussion would be something that the Duke could have with the King. I still think that Freddie and Davina should have a carriage accident. Bertie is now respectable enough to assume the heir position. And that would put the Earle back in the running as the estate would not be in danger of being squandered. Or now that Freddie has a son, would He be in line instead of Bertie? I suspect so. Of course after the carriage accident George would probably have to raise the child that is most likely his anyways.

 

Finding out who on the privy council sent the package to Captain Sommers should provide some useful information. And there still needs to be a discussion regarding Gatling and Calvert. One can only hope that the exchange happens quickly. Perhaps he can be exchanged and be promised a ship that will not be ready for a few months. That would allow him to be more involved in it's creation, put his crew to work on it and yet leave him time on shore to piss everyone off. We know he does not do well on land for long. That may change as he ages but he is not anywhere near there now.

 

So did I miss anything?

[Mark Arbour]

I'm going to let Westie do the heavy lifting on this one, because he's so studly, but I'll clear out a few of the points.

 

 

When he goes to his tailor he'll need to get a lobster outfit as well won't he? Being a Col of the Marines, won't he? I'm sure there will be moments he will need it.

 

 

 

No.  The Colonel of Marines was an honorary title given to Post Captains.  They retained it until they were promoted to the rank of admiral.  It provided them with an extra income, so it was really a monetary reward.  There's no extra duty to perform, and no need to  put on a red coat.

 

 

And speaking of Arthur, why would having Arthur's support mean anything to the Duke of Clarence? Does that mean he was instrumental in Jardine's banishment?

 

 

This would imply that Arthur has a relatively high standing in the Brotherhood, although we really don't know that for sure.

 

 

Finding out who on the privy council sent the package to Captain Sommers should provide some useful information.

 

 

 

Actually, the Privy Council would have sent it out as a group (the council), not as an individual.

[ricky]

Damn! That just means more questions!

And he still needs to go see his new home. I can't wait. Perhaps he'll run into Mr. Llewellyn while there. (Gotta love the Welsh language.)

[Westie]

I'm going to let Westie do the heavy lifting on this one, because he's so studly, but I'll clear out a few of the points.

You think that you can hide your laziness by giving a compliment and getting me to do the hard work? Yeah.... that kinda does the trick

 

First, I'm most anxious to find out what Spencer has to say. What new situation is he about to unleash? We know he is involved in the guild because of his treatment of Dr Jackson's situation. But who is the power behind it all? Why do I suspect a Mann, Wilcox or Fox involvement? These issues are usually resolved by following the money. Now, Cavendish mentioned the smuggling but did not mention if they indeed caught them on this end.

We don't, repeat DON'T, have anything to implicate Spencer in conspiracy. I am almost completely certain that Spencer is not involved - all his actions were completely in line with how you would expect the first lord of the admiralty to act. Spencer treated the Jackson situation in an absolutely correct manner - it may not have been as fast, or as decisive as we would like, but he followed all appropriate protocols. If there is anything we do know about Spencer, it's that he lived his life according to certain strict societal and legal "rules". They were his comfort zone.

 

I also think you are wrong about Mann, Wilcox and Fox. We know that the Guild is a merchant/commercial organisation. None of these men have ever shown the slightest interest in Money. While a bribe or two "for comfort" is feasible, I don't think any of these men are powerful or influential enough, clever enough or even rich enough to foster such a scheme. Moreover, their use as pawns would be limited. What possible use to the guild would two discredited and ridiculed admirals be? What use would Fox be? He is in the political wilderness at this point (more on this to follow).

 

And no appearance by Mr Fox at the hazard table tonight. So it WAS an exceptional evening.

Actually, Mr Fox has recently suffered a disgrace. The Prime Minister (Pitt) has had him removed from the Privy Council, and was spending increasing time at his wife's country mansion in Surrey. He had made a particularly odious (for the time) toast at his birthday party that had offended the King, because it suggested that the King's sovereignty was derived from the people and parliament - whereas the King is "Deo Gratias" which in this context translates as "By grace of God".

 

I'm sure that Fitzwilliam can not be happy in the channel fleet. But it's a good place to wait until George has a new ship. Eastwyck, Llewellyn, Fitzwilliam. He's already piecing together his new team.

In the next few months of limited action, the Channel is the place to be. That's where the limited skirmishes are and more importantly, he needs to be around for the Battle of Copenhagen in April 1801. If it takes 9 months to do a prisoner exchange, there aren't too many places Mark can send Granger in order to get him back in time (though I said that about the Nile). Also, we don't know for sure that Granger will be assigned to a fleet at all. He now has a reputation as an envoy and diplomat. I could easily see him being sent to Russia to negotiate the Anglo Russian alliance leading to the invasion of Holland in order to restore the Stadtholder.

 

As I've said before, for those who think Granger is going to get an instant command, they will surely be disappointed. Granger is going to have a long wait. It remains to be seen whether the author makes US wait WITH him by telling a land based story, or whether he will skip on in time.

 

Something Cavendish mentioned. That the Earle had been favored by the King but little recompense for his service. This statement causes some questions. First, why has he not been honored? Is it because it is well known that Freddie would squander anything bestowed upon the Earle? Did he request any further benefit due to him be directed toward George instead? Basically throwing the Marguesad to happen to the deserving son of honor? Such an act of Nobility would be in line with his father.

We know that the King is taking a "renewed interest" in The Earl (no "e" on the end), because he HAS given him some not inconsiderable honours. The Earl is a member of the Privy Council, and even more importantly he has received the Order of the Garter. This is a major honour - there are only 24 members of the order (considerably less than the Privy Council) with personal access to the King.

 

We also know that George's appointment as Constable and Governor of Windsor is a major office, with much prestige. I would suspect that we will see further honours to the Earl, as really further honour's to George depend on a promotion for his father. it is very unlikely that George would be given a peerage outranking that of his Father.

[Daddydavek]

It all sounds so self-evident when Westie explains it.

[sandrewn]

Just checking to see if posting here still works, yup I guess so. The silence in this forum is deafening. To pass the time I have been looking for a theme song for the series, this is the best one that I found to date. As to whom he is referring too, you can assume Caroline or just make a long list.

 

▶ The Last Farewell ~ Roger Whittaker - YouTube

[ricky]

Just checking to see if posting here still works, yup I guess so. The silence in this forum is deafening. To pass the time I have been looking for a theme song for the series, this is the best one that I found to date. As to whom he is referring too, you can assume Caroline or just make a long list.

 

▶ The Last Farewell ~ Roger Whittaker - YouTube

A great choice for the series theme song. I'd love to know where the video used in this video came from. It looks like a great sea faring saga.

Thanks Sandy

[Westie]

Just checking to see if posting here still works, yup I guess so. The silence in this forum is deafening.

Feel free to start a conversation if there's a lull No need to stand on ceremony and wait for the herd to pile in

[ricky]

Feel free to start a conversation if there's a lull No need to stand on ceremony and wait for the herd to pile in

Ok Westie. You are one of the truly knowledgeable on the given subject. Suppose you speculate on where the next saga will start and what will be happening in London.

[Mark Arbour]

Ok Westie. You are one of the truly knowledgeable on the given subject. Suppose you speculate on where the next saga will start and what will be happening in London.

 

That would be interesting to hear, not only from Westie, but from the rest of you. 

[ricky]

I'll withhold comment until I hear from the experts regarding what was happening in history then. We've had a bit of that but as I understand it there is a period of insignificant naval history right ahead.

[rjo]

As we come to the end of this book, we can already feel the pull of the sea. George is always pulled between  the sea and home, between family and crew,  It is a sad tale that when e he at home, even after this long trip, he longs for the sea and when he is aboard his newest ship he longs for home. Ir is the lot of the sailor. Never totally happy. I feel that pull and the need of good officers will again draw George away. But this time he will have good memories of a happy homecoming.

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Just checking to see if posting here still works, yup I guess so. The silence in this forum is deafening. To pass the time I have been looking for a theme song for the series, this is the best one that I found to date. As to whom he is referring too, you can assume Caroline or just make a long list.

 

▶ The Last Farewell ~ Roger Whittaker - YouTube

NICE EARWORM

 

 

THANKS OBAMA

[JimCarter]

  That would be interesting to hear, not only from Westie, but from the rest of you. 

I  think we have a chance at new story line "Governor George".  Mark is very talented, but I am not sure even he could make that compelling.   Whatever comes next Mark will make it exciting.  I am not sure George can manage without some wind and salt air in his face.

[Daddydavek]

The timeline doesn't have to be continuous.  The story could be taken up after a year or so of desk jobs when George gets another and larger ship....

[ricky]

The timeline doesn't have to be continuous.  The story could be taken up after a year or so of desk jobs when George gets another and larger ship....

Well that's the basis for my question. Where on the timeline do you expert folk think it will take up in the next book and why? What's going on then?

[Westie]

Wow, that's an interesting question. Incredibly interesting, because the problem we have here is that we have hit a period where British dominance on the oceans was almost absolute, and with that there really wasn't much going on for a significant amount of time. The next really exciting thing is the battle of Copenhagen, and it doesn't happen until 1801 (with a few other things in between as Mark has noted previously, but nothing he could get Granger to realistically).

 

So, that puts us in a little quandary, because we have to decide now whether this is a story about one man's attempt to live in the navy in an era that did not forgive homosexuality, or is this a story about a man, and his journey through LIFE, being a homosexual in in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century?

 

I happen to think its actually the latter, and that this is a story about George and his life, which happens to be lived at the moment in the Navy, but has many other facets such as being a member of the aristocracy, being a courtier and importantly, being a father and husband - as well as a friend.

 

In that case, I do not think that this story is dependant on the idea of George being at sea. I think the story is dependant on the ability of the author to weave an adventure with George as the central character. Yes, George not being at sea means he is more bound to his wife, and there will naturally be less of the graphic encounters we know and love.... but this isn't Nifty, and I have to say that it's not the sex that keeps me coming back for more.

 

So... I do not think Mark needs, necessarily, to get George back to sea immediately. Personally, I would thoroughly enjoy a drama heavy on the political intrigue... but Mark and I have actually discussed this point, and Mark felt at the time like he would not do such a story justice because of his lack of knowledge in this area. I personally think Mark could write about almost anything and make it engaging, but as an author you have to feel comfortable in your own skin.

 

The question then is WHEN, for the next story. I think it would be reasonable to suggest 9 months as a period for George to be landbound. I personally would like to see some of that frustration come out. There are certain aspects of this that could be very exciting - you have some very powerful political forces pushing in a number of directions that might leave George feeling frustrated. Might Caroline want her husband to be home for a while, and thus work behind the scenes to slow his prisoner exchange?

 

I think a 3 - 6 month break is ample time for us to rejoin George just as the frustration is setting in, but soon enough that we see him back on the ocean fairly quickly. Though don't forget how much of Odyssey was set on land before George finally got off to sea and it wasn't really that much hardship.

 

Next question is WHERE. As I already noted, militarily, there's not much going on in the SEA. So if we want adventure, George is going to need some kind of MISSION. Be is diplomatic or something clandestine for the military, he needs something to do. I would like to see that lead him either to Russia or back to the Indies and Australia. Russia is my first choice because we haven't met them yet, and they were much more fascinating back in the golden age of the Tsar (Catherine the Great had died only in 1796).

 

We know that the next decade in the story will be dominated by war with the French. I would therefore like to see a last hurrah with George against some other set of characters.

[ricky]

Well we still need to see the death of Nelson I believe. Remember also that the American's are around so they should be considered in the equation as well. he Logan Act passes in January for instance. The first standardization of parts in musketry and rifling occurs making accuracy greater and reparations faster, cheaper, better. A damaged musket could be parted out to repair others. It was the moment of standardization. An act that would affect trade world over as other industries find ways to standardize. (Caroline and George own interest in an iron foundry do they not?)

 

China is also an option and after all, isn't chartley supposed to be there? And what could Bertie do to screw up George's life some more?

 

A few other things were mentioned that I think will play into the story. I believe there was a gambling institution which Caroline is involved with, and Iron works and a new home. Is it done? And obviously we are not done with the guild yet either. I think we may have some surprises in this one. Unexpected involvements and such. Perhaps Arthur?

 

Beethoven writes his first symphony and ballet goes to point this year. So culturally there is much to enjoy as well.

 

I agree that George will probably be on land for 6 months or so. The question is will he be so problematic that he's sent to sea to get him out of the way? Away perhaps for his own safety? Away because he was getting to close to something? I suspect he will be sent off on a diplomatic venture that finds unexpected adventure. Mark is wonderful at creating adventure to fill in the gaps in history. And just because something is not great enough to make the history book does NOT mean that adventures are not happening. Remember that there is a privateer out there earning the first lord, Spencer and Granger some hazard table fodder.

 

And lets not forget that there is a carriage accident to arrange for Freddie and Davina, eh? It's about time for Freddie and Davina to befriend a Wilcox or Mann or Fox in the guise of making peace and a unified hatred for George. I mean it's about the only thing they could possibly do that's worse than the rape he has already endured.

 

There still be pirates ya knowz! Argh!

[Mark Arbour]

Well we still need to see the death of Nelson I believe.

 

 

Nelson was killed at the Battle of Trafalgar, which won't happen until after Copenhagen, and after the Peace of Amiens.  That's a while off.

 

China is also an option and after all, isn't chartley supposed to be there? And what could Bertie do to screw up George's life some more?

 

 

I think we can rule that one out.  Having been sent around the world once already, and having just gotten back from that trip, I think it's inevitable that Granger stays relatively close to home (meaning probably in Europe)

[ricky]

Unless of course he pushes for it himself of course. Remember his Grandfather is out there yet and he has a fondness for him. And just because it is far away doesn't mean it's in a fever area. I can't see him tied to anyone's apron strings. They only said he wouldn't be sent far away, not that e couldn't request it.

 

And the America's aren't really that far, right?

[Kookie]

_{It is quite possible that being on shore for extended period of time is just what George needs.  He has already expressed the desire to be around his sons more.  And William is approaching the age where schooling in how to handle life as a aristocrat and handling court is desired. And a trip to Ireland to assist Kingsdale get a handle on things might be a possibility.} Edited January 22, 2014 by Kookie

[ricky]

Anyone hear anything from the great state of Misery?
er, uhm I mean Missouri? We should be getting close. I can always tell when I'm getting desperate.

[Daddydavek]

Anyone hear anything from the great state of Misery?

er, uhm I mean Missouri? We should be getting close. I can always tell when I'm getting desperate.

With the weather this winter, you got it right the first time....

[Mark Arbour]

Well then, I'll give you an update.  The last two chapters are done, and are in final editing/beta reading.  Some members of my team actually take vacations (except for Sharon) .  This isn't Walmart, even though I pay them almost as well.    So I expect we'll have the next chapter out within the next 4-5 days, and the final one within a week of that one.