9.11

[rjo]

I agree with David and Tim, Marie needs to be removed from Menlo and sent some place far away. If JP is forced to interfere no one with be happy. Marie is attacking the family, and his beloved grandson. How this plays into 9 11 only Mark knows. As for the binoculars my first guess is JP. He saw Kai's dad using them.

Edited August 24, 2013 by rjo

[BeysJoshersLepton V2]

Whilst we know the serious implications of what Marie has done if she is involved with Ferris and Kyle to such an extent (which I think is rather clear). I doubt she realises the seriousness of what she's doing for two seconds. To her it is a just a another cruel way to "get back at Will" for all her perceived slights especially having been removed as future Queen Bee so effortlessly by Will (obviously Will wouldn't be Queen Bee but forgive the phrasing). Using Noah, High School drama, STD's etc is just a means to an end by reestablishing her perceived natural order. She'd never been challenged before in this regards and as we've seen is very much a girl of entitlement and her position. 

 

Whilst I think a "typical" family of their wealth and power would reallocate Marie to a boarding school etc. I don't see this happening in the CAP saga simply because she is to much an interesting story arc to move things along in secondary school (middle school/high school?). Will despite his maturity and physicality is still in requirement of schooling and can't jet around all year buying properties, sleeping with the construction crew and the boy next door (though I did think the story arc was sweet & therapeutic for will after Tony/Rome). 

 

Claire and Jack are a case of perhaps to little to late, now no one is a perfect parent it isn't possible. I do think however to not have instilled the sense of family which is the life blood of the family (as thankfully literal blood isn't as important) a major oversight on their parts. She is literally biting the hand which feeds, trying to destroy the family from within because she isn't getting her own way and it perplexes me because at the end of the day those who consider us family and we consider ours are such important threads to a healthy existence. 

 

Will was great from the school to the limo, even the subtle touches with Kai and wanting to talk to him longer than usual because he isn't an island and requires help like everyone even if it was just listening. 

 

My money is on Brad as an apology, though remains to be seen. I really think their relationship is going to blossom when Will becomes an adult in Brads eyes not a piece of paper. 

 

When JP lays the law down on Marie I cannot wait, he's easily if not the favorite character for me in terms of being an entity. The closest to the sort of Godfather archetype CAP has in my opinion. 

[B1ue]

Whilst we know the serious implications of what Marie has done if she is involved with Ferris and Kyle to such an extent (which I think is rather clear). I doubt she realises the seriousness of what she's doing for two seconds. To her it is a just a another cruel way to "get back at Will" for all her perceived slights especially having been removed as future Queen Bee so effortlessly by Will (obviously Will wouldn't be Queen Bee but forgive the phrasing). Using Noah, High School drama, STD's etc is just a means to an end by reestablishing her perceived natural order. She'd never been challenged before in this regards and as we've seen is very much a girl of entitlement and her position. 

This was my reading as well. Not everyone is enlightened enough to realize the seriousness of such actions, or the ramifications of "pranks" like this. There's even an aspect to many people's personality that any negative affects that don't directly effect them may as well have happened to a cartoon character, for all that they consider them to be real.

 

Boarding school might be a good idea, but not as punishment. Part of her problem seems to be that she's been in the same social group, and ruling it, for her entire life. Breaking Marie out of her environment and forcing her to adapt to an entirely new set of social peers may be the best thing for her in terms of growing up. It's bound to happen sooner or later, may as well get started now.

[mmike1969]

I am thinking military school for Marie.

[PrivateTim]

I am thinking military school for Marie.

 

Naw, I know an awesome school for her in Greece.

 

[methodwriter85]

   They could send her to Catholic school with some scary-ass nuns.

 

    Anyway, one interesting contrast...Will being annoyed that people were following him purely because of who he was. I thought that was a great contrast against Be Rad, as we know the guy relished every second of his top-tier popularity to the point where he would destroy other people for the purpose of protecting his power.

[Mark Arbour]

Naw, I know an awesome school for her in Greece.

 

 

This is just awesome. 

[sat8997]

If I happened to be Clair, I wouldn't send Marie away. I'd keep her right next to me and make her life miserable.

[methodwriter85]

 

I think you're reading Noah right. He'd probably been crushing on Marie for years, and now that it's a reality, he's blind to pretty much everything else.

 

    If Noah went to Menlo's Middle School, he could have known Marie for as long as since the 1997-1998 school year, when Marie was in 6th grade and Noah was in 8th grade. As someone who went to a school that held both middle school and high school grades, there tends to be a bit of overlap where underclassmen and middle schoolers wind up hanging out with each other. I had a friend in 10th grade who was seeing an 8th grader, and god we teased him mercilessly about it.

Edited August 25, 2013 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

If I happened to be Clair, I wouldn't send Marie away. I'd keep her right next to me and make her life miserable.

I don't know, Claire doesn't seem to have enough evil in her for the task. Stef, maybe. Or maybe Isiodore. Or, heck, Elizabeth Danfield could probably use an intern to run her wardrobe when she runs against her ex-husband in the next primary election, or just steps into his office "temporarily" after he tragically winds up in the hospital. "Your husband has been diagnosed with what again?" "Malignant Noneofyourdamnbusiness. It's quite contagious."

[Kitt]

I don't know, Claire doesn't seem to have enough evil in her for the task. Stef, maybe. Or maybe Isiodore. Or, heck, Elizabeth Danfield could probably use an intern to run her wardrobe when she runs against her ex-husband in the next primary election, or just steps into his office "temporarily" after he tragically winds up in the hospital. "Your husband has been diagnosed with what again?" "Malignant Noneofyourdamnbusiness. It's quite contagious."

Good God!  We want to teach Marie to become a BETTER person, not create Elizabeth Dansfield Jr.

[JimCarter]

Good God!  We want to teach Marie to become a BETTER person, not create Elizabeth Dansfield Jr.

 

It might be a little too late to teach her to be a better person, I am afraid the best we can hope for is to teach her that consequences can sometimes be such that you need to alter your actions.  Her biggest problem is that her friends and family have allowed her to get away with thinking the world revolves around her for too long.  As long as she continues to think Will is the cause of all her problems she will hold on to her delusions and never realize that she has a problem.  In my opinion she has no clue that she has done anything wrong.

[centexhairysub]

It might be a little too late to teach her to be a better person, I am afraid the best we can hope for is to teach her that consequences can sometimes be such that you need to alter your actions.  Her biggest problem is that her friends and family have allowed her to get away with thinking the world revolves around her for too long.  As long as she continues to think Will is the cause of all her problems she will hold on to her delusions and never realize that she has a problem.  In my opinion she has no clue that she has done anything wrong.

 

I don't know; I have trouble seeing Marie as really delusional.  I think she really believes she is justifyed in her actions for whatever reason; she is actually a lot like Brad was in Be Rad just more extreme.  I think she knows what she is doing is wrong, she just feels that the situation warrants it.  Don't forget, Brad was willing to ruin his best friend to save his reputation in Be Rad

[methodwriter85]

I don't know; I have trouble seeing Marie as really delusional.  I think she really believes she is justifyed in her actions for whatever reason; she is actually a lot like Brad was in Be Rad just more extreme.  I think she knows what she is doing is wrong, she just feels that the situation warrants it.  Don't forget, Brad was willing to ruin his best friend to save his reputation in Be Rad

 

    Yeah, I'm seeing more parallels with Brad in Be Rad than Elizabeth Danfield. The main difference is that Brad is more overt while Marie gets other people to do her bidding, and Brad wanted to be King of the entire school, while Marie wants to be Queen of her cliche. It's a small distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.

[MJ85]

The main difference is that Brad is more overt while Marie gets other people to do her bidding, and Brad wanted to be King of the entire school, while Marie wants to be Queen of her cliche.

 

Clique.

 

Sharon's got a good suggestion of Claire keeping Marie around so as to make Marie's life miserable - at the very least, just sending her away (presumably, for attitude adjustment) is, like simply killing her off, too damn easy.

 

Something else to consider, though - even if Marie ends up coming around...in a way, it still doesn't fix the entire problem for Will. Because the rest of the problem is just the way the school gossip network works. Even if they fix Marie and get Ferris to back down, who says there won't still be someone else? Will can overcome these particular nemeses, but how much of gossiping just being the way things are will he decide to put up with?

[Mark Arbour]

Something else to consider, though - even if Marie ends up coming around...in a way, it still doesn't fix the entire problem for Will. Because the rest of the problem is just the way the school gossip network works. Even if they fix Marie and get Ferris to back down, who says there won't still be someone else? Will can overcome these particular nemeses, but how much of gossiping just being the way things are will he decide to put up with?

 

That's a really good point.  There's no way to really escape the gossip mill, but then again, I don't think that would really bother Will unless it was extreme, like it is now. 

 

I posted this on my group: 

The interesting thing about the Marie situation is that we really don't know how involved in this she is.  She's been around when Kyle/Ferris/Erik had conversations, and she probably told  Erik directly about Will and Kyle, but other than that, it's a lot of hearsay.

[methodwriter85]

    Which is how the high school gossip mill works.

 

    I don't think Menlo would have a bullying problem, because you can' have a school set-up that intense (not as intense as HW according to Will but it's still gotta come close) and create the kind of environment where bored kids decide to pick on other people for the hell of it. But even in an environment that's relatively bully-free, gossip is still pretty huge, especially considering that Menlo is relatively small school. The Upper School school enrollment now is 560, and if the number is comparable to 2001 enrollment, they probably only have about 125 to 150 students per grade. (Maybe even less.) When you've got classes that small, gossip spreads like wildfire, as opposed to if Will went a large public high school that had 2,000 students and like 500 kids per class. Everybody knows everybody else, and everybody has been in at least one class with every other person in their class.

 

    BTW, I checked and Menlo requires 80 hours of community servivce to graduate. I think that's even more than Harvard-Westlake required. I wonder if Will's going to go back to tutoring disadvantaged youth again because that worked so well the last time. LOL. If I were Claire, I'd force Marie to do her community service picking up trash along the highway. LOL.

 

    Do you think you'll incorporate the kid's community service again like you did in Paternity, or is that all just stuff that's going to happen off-book? Having John, Marie, and Will working together on a Habitat for Humanity project could be cool.

[mmike1969]

Car crash. Massive explosion when her car hit a gas tanker and a cement truck... Over a cliff... Into a pond...

 

And no larger schools do not make rumors fly slower.

 

Example: 1986 small incident involved me and the police. They gave me a ride

Class of 1987

 

1989 after joining the army I was ID by someone at Ft Gordon Georgia . He just graduated.

1991 ID by someone at a Burger King at Giessen Germany and he was not in the class of 1987.

1992 ID by someone at Ft Bliss tx, also not in the class of 1987.

 

Yeah big schools vs rumors my ass.

Edited August 25, 2013 by mmike1969

[Kitt]

I don't know; I have trouble seeing Marie as really delusional.  I think she really believes she is justifyed in her actions for whatever reason; she is actually a lot like Brad was in Be Rad just more extreme.  I think she knows what she is doing is wrong, she just feels that the situation warrants it.  Don't forget, Brad was willing to ruin his best friend to save his reputation in Be Rad

While i completely agree, there is a  difference between ruining a guys rep ( something she is also doing here with all the tales carried and pictures on the locker) and plotting to detrimentally affect a family members health. Bad enough to not be able to trust family emotionally but when physical threats start its way past time to do something.

[Kitt]

Here is a thought- What if Clair were to withdraw Marie completely from the social aspects?  Home schooling is quite popular now, altho i have no clue how much it occurred in 2001.  I am quite sure the Hobart budget could afford tutoring.  Complete house arrest with no one but Claire for company during the day other than tutors MIGHT make an impact on Marie, Obviously taking her phone from her didn't, she simply got another that she tried to hide. I think Claire hit on something that did make an impact in that keeping her home first day may have put her at a distinct disadvantage in the clique.  Most notably if one of the guys mentioned why it occurred.

[mmike1969]

I still say military school... In east Germany with a big, hairy female commandant.

 

Home schooling might work if the parents actually put fourth effort into it. We've already seen the work effort they have put into their kids and it worked pretty well right?

[methodwriter85]

Car crash. Massive explosion when her car hit a gas tanker and a cement truck... Over a cliff... Into a pond...

 

And no larger schools do not make rumors fly slower.

 

Example: 1986 small incident involved me and the police. They gave me a ride

Class of 1987

 

1989 after joining the army I was ID by someone at Ft Gordon Georgia . He just graduated.

1991 ID by someone at a Burger King at Giessen Germany and he was not in the class of 1987.

1992 ID by someone at Ft Bliss tx, also not in the class of 1987.

 

Yeah big schools vs rumors my ass.

 

     Dude, you graduated from high school in the average year that people in my class were born! (I should have been in '04 but I was held back in first grade to improve my reading skills, so I relate more to people born in late 1986/early1987 instead of late '85/early '86.) I have this great shirt that says "Class of 2005 Est. 1987." Pretty cool coincidence.

 

    John Hobart would have been born the summer after you graduated from high school- we set his birthdate as July 21, 1987. I do think 1987 was a pretty cool year- great music(The Cure's Just Like Heaven, Crowded House's Don't Dream It's Over), great T.V. (Thirtysomething), great movies (Wall Street, Dirty Dancing, Fatal Attraction), and some really hilarious fashion. (Crimped hair, pegged acid wash jeans, surfer/skater hair.)

 

     Have you ever seen Adventureland? It's a pretty cool coming-of-age flick set in 1987 with Jesse Eisenberg and Kristen Stewart about a guy who has to work at an amusement park the summer after he graduates from college. I think they could've done better with the clothes, but the music was fantastic.

[B1ue]

Good God!  We want to teach Marie to become a BETTER person, not create Elizabeth Dansfield Jr.

In fairness, I didn't imagine Marie enjoying this experience. I was thinking more along the lines of The Devil Wears Prada, and Marie coming back not only completely over her own crap, but everyone else's. "You think you scare me? I have shopped for pumps for a woman who can kill me with barely a raised eyebrow, and refuses to admit she needs wide width size. I know fear, and you aren't it!"

 

Plus, in more seriousness, I don't think Mrs. Danfield could cultivate Marie if she wanted to. She doesn't think like that. She tries, and has tried hard, but the woman is never more ruthless or capital "e" Evil than when she's genuinely trying to be nurturing towards someone.

[Kitt]

I know a real life Elizabeth Dansfield.  She took herself from upper middle class thru college to a low level executive position eventually marrying a man with the sort of money she felt she deserved. Love had nothing to do with the relationship as far as she was concerned. We went to high school together and she started her scheams at about the age of 12 and was very much like Marie when she was in her mid teens. I was looking at it less like ED "nurturing" Marie and more like Marie learning that any means to an end is allowable. You have to admit Elizabeth did some pretty low down things to obtain her goals.

[methodwriter85]

 

Plus, in more seriousness, I don't think Mrs. Danfield could cultivate Marie if she wanted to. She doesn't think like that. She tries, and has tried hard, but the woman is never more ruthless or capital "e" Evil than when she's genuinely trying to be nurturing towards someone

    I always kind of thought that if La Danfield and MaryEllen would run across Gathan Hayes, they'd find themselves a very pliable person to manipulate. Gathan is a sweet person who doesn't have an in-born bullshit detector who's much more naieve than you'd think someone with his background would be like. That he wants to be small-town mayor would be a good starting off-point- first being mayor of a small-town in Middle America, then graduating up to district representative, and then senator or governor. Ohio is actually an important swing state, and I could see having someone in their back pocket from that state appealing to them. Gathan's not really that ambitious but that's where Elizabeth and MaryEllen would come in.

Edited August 26, 2013 by methodwriter85