9.11

[Kitt]

Just FYI?  Fort Dix has not gone away - it is still there although greatly reduced, operating under the new title of "Joint Base McGuire Dix Lakehurst"

[GLH]

Well, I don't feel too bad about that since I'm posting a chapter every four days or so.  But when it comes to sadism, CJ is my mentor.

 

 

As a matter of fact, your overall average is 4 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes and 14 seconds.  Your weighted average is just over an hour less at 4 days, 4 hours, 47 minutes and 32 seconds.  However, over the course of the last thirty days that average has now dropped to 3 days, 7 hours 52 minutes and 33 seconds; a difference of 21 hours, 56 minutes and 41 seconds.  Almost a full day faster!  

[Mark Arbour]

As a matter of fact, your overall average is 4 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes and 14 seconds.  Your weighted average is just over an hour less at 4 days, 4 hours, 47 minutes and 32 seconds.  However, over the course of the last thirty days that average has now dropped to 3 days, 7 hours 52 minutes and 33 seconds; a difference of 21 hours, 56 minutes and 41 seconds.  Almost a full day faster!  

 

I love Stats. 

[mmike1969]

Geek

[Daddydavek]

Geek

 

Probably just a little, but the real geeks are found in physics and chemistry.

[Kitt]

**Pulls hood down over my face**   Chem and Chem II were my favorites.

[Daddydavek]

I found it surprising that Jeanine stayed with Hank but handed the baby off to Will and Darius.

 

The chapter was brilliant and evoked feelings just as that day actually did:  Surreal, confusing, frightening, maddening, frustrating, senseless and threatening.

[Never Surrender]

Fantastic chapter, Mark

Really powerful. I don't remember 9.11 very well, i was only 7? when it took place and obviously I'm in the UK as well, so although i remember feeling sad and confused (and i remember my parents being horrified and disbelieving), i think we felt different emotions on that day to those felt by the people in the USA, even if they could technically be called by the same names.

 

That said, the emotions that came through in that chapter left tears in my eyes (and hormones only played a small part in that!), so i have to give thanks for your producing another fantastic piece of work. I look forward to the next update.

[Mark Arbour]

I found it surprising that Jeanine stayed with Hank but handed the baby off to Will and Darius.

 

 

Well, remember that Will was holding Maddy at the time, so that may have influenced her decision.  Regardless of what happens, Will should be flattered that she trusts him with her.

[Kitt]

I found it surprising that Jeanine stayed with Hank but handed the baby off to Will and Darius.

 

The chapter was brilliant and evoked feelings just as that day actually did:  Surreal, confusing, frightening, maddening, frustrating, senseless and threatening.

What I found surprising was that Hank didn't insist that Janine start down with the boys and Maddy.  I can understand her following the command's instructions and being there to carry out what ever instructions they manage to pass to her, but one would think the safety of her lover would be as important to her.

[gjtravel2a]

Difficult story presented with sensitivity and artistic drama......an amazing combo. The shoe is dropping....the elephant is being revealed....It needs your unique skills to bring it about.  thank you.

[centexhairysub]

Okay, I have had a few hours to gather myself since I read the chapter; plus, I have already gone back and read it again when I got home but I have calmed down enough to put a few thoughts down...

 

 

I cannot say enough about the writing and flow of this chapter.  It was just so well done and there was not an extra or wasted word or thought.  I just found this powerful from start to finish.

 

 

I hate hate hate that Jeanine and Hank will not make it.  It is one of the true misfortunes of that day how many people died because the police and 911 operators told the people in Tower 2 to stay put and not evacuate.  The other awful truth is that there were no attempts at any air rescue by helicopters.  The antennas on Tower 1 would have made it almost impossible for anyone to have been picked up from that tower but Tower 2 was such that people could have been saved from the roof but there was just no plan in place and that tower collapsed before anything could be done.  The police helicopters were not equiped to be able to pick anyone up and there was just not enough time to get any others there.  Another true tragedy was how many firefighters died because once the police helicopters notified the ground that the building was going to collapse and the police ordered their people to get out; there was no radio compatibility between the police and fire radios and the same warning did not go out to the fire personel.  Most of the police that were in the towers got out because of that warning; of course there were some police that either did not get the warning because of radio problems or they choose to stay and try to help and were trapped. 

 

 

I am going to assume that Brad and Stef are going to make it out.  Even with Stef's bad ankle from where they came out into the staircase to the ground floor, they should have plenty of time to get out.  Brad will be beside himself when he gets out and realizes that the second tower has been hit and that everyone could be trapped there.  I know that there were accounts of people going into the second tower to try and get people out and I could see Brad trying to do that but it would have been hard to do.  As much as Brad has annoyed me over the course of this story; I hope that both he and Stef survive.

 

 

Staircase A was the only way out from above where the plane hit on Tower 2.  There was some damage and it was very crowded but because they started almost immediately and are young and in good shape, yes even Robbie, I would suspect that Will, Darius, Robbie, and Maddie will all make it out of Tower 2. 

 

 

JJ will be okay physically but I think he will be the one most affected by Jeanine's death.  I think that Will and Darius will be devastated mostly because they were there with her and did not push harder to make her leave, but JJ has always been the one that was tied to her the more tightly and for a most of his life.  I know they have been on the outs but I still think of the three boys, he will be the one most deeply impacted by her death.

 

 

JP will be beside himself.  He will have no way to contact anyone and will not even be able to get close to the towers before they fall more than likely.  I really figured that he would be okay but he may very well give himself a heart attack trying to get there.  I still have to believe that JP will be safe because for me, the story will end with his death.

 

 

Claire, Jack, John, and even Marie will be trapped in a web of silence and not knowing for at least a day or so.  Since JJ got through to Escorial, they may get that message and know that he is safe but there was almost no contact with the area around ground zero that first day or so.  Claire is faced with losing almost half her family in one fell swoop.  Jack is caught between worrying about his wife and her family and trying to hold her and their kids together.  John is faced with losing his best friend and grandfather, either or both would be devastating for him.  One hopes that Marie will realize that her plan of revenge pales in comparrison to this real tragedy.   

 

 

As they make there way out of the towers, the first problem will be trying to regroup and find each other.  As I stated there was almost no cell phone or any other type of communication after this in that area.  I can only hope that they will realize with everything going on that Jeanine's place will be the best place to meet up.  The chaos and confusion that rained down on everyone that first day or so is one of the reasons that the initial reports on how many were killed were so far off.  Even for those that survive, the biggest terror will become did the others???

 

 

Getting to see Brad's point of view was just great; this was the first time that I even remotely thought he was coming from a place with Will that was about anything other that trying to control him.  While I think that Will has a pretty good built in bullshit meter; I do understand Brad's fear of someone taking advantage of or going after Will.  I still think he is more wrong than right, but at least I don't think he is a total ass about this anymore...  It isn't all about control, which I had begun to think it was just about that with him.

 

 

I have to think that Will will take very seriously his promise to Jeanine to take care of Maddie.  Except for Cody, who has never really shown any interest in the child, Will is going to be her closest surviving relative.  ***  Tim, do you know how this would work with Will being an emancipated minor???  ***  I know that in Texas an adult sibling would take precedent over a grandparent or aunt/uncle, but I am not sure how it would be dealt with since Will is under age but emancipated.  I mean he obviously would have the financial resources to take care of her but if there is not will, and I am going to bet there isn't one; what will happen?  Plus, a teen parent would be an interesting storyline for this saga; how much would Will grow up if he was suddenly responsible for a child???

 

 

This chapter and probably the next few are going to be really hard for me to process.  While I only knew one person that died in the attacks that day; it was a friend of a friend more that someone I had been truly close to, it really impacted me for quite a while.  I traveled up there after the attack to work with the grief counselors that were brought in to help those impacted by this tragedy.  The picture of the man that jumped was really hard for me to take.  One of the women that I dealt with really closely, lost her son because he jumped.  They found his body on the top of another building in the complex.  It was really hard for her to process.  I think the fact that he choose to jump was harder for her to deal with than if he had just perished in the building collapse. 

 

 

Mark, you did an exceptional job with this.  I can't wait to see how you deal with this over the next several chapters.  I really liked getting the multiple points of view, it really gave a more well rounded feeling to the events.... 

 

 

Bravo...

[methodwriter85]

 

I'm not sure that Jeanine's death will have more of an impact on JJ than the other brothers. His tight relationship with her is pretty much over.

 

    I really have to disagree with you on this. I think it's precisely because they had such a tight relationship that became restrained over the past year that JJ will be hit really hard. Darius and Will more or less resolved whatever issues they had with Jeanine. JJ has not, and he spent what could have been the last weekend of his mother's life shopping in Europe and then ignoring her once he got to NYC to shop on 5th Avenue. That's the kind of thing that haunts a person for the rest of their life.

 

    Anyway, other than JJ cursing a bit more than I think he would (then again, he doesn't have to be Disney JJ since he's not around media or the judges), I thought his perspective was pretty spot-on. He's really angry and really repressed a lot of it, but still falls in line to go to his mother's house because he knows it's the right thing. I also loved that he just didn't get it and lovingly talked about his $300 Diesel jeans that he probably got at Lexington Ave in New York City, his Bally loafers, and Dior shirt, while taking the time to mess with his hair. (I imagine that JJ's hair is like Cody Simpson's- thick wavy blond hair that he has to put a lot of product in to keep tame.) I thought having JJ waiting on the rootop watching things go down was a great way to tie into the scene where Will is admiringly checking out the New York City skyline from the rooftop when Jeanine and Hank bought the condo.

 

     It angers me so much when I think about how many lives could've been saved if the people had been evacuated in the second tower after the first tower was hit.

 

 

The POV I enjoyed the most was JJ's actually. I'd love to see read JJ read Will the riot act because Will is reaping the downside of being the favorite now, but JJ feels like the complete non-entity. I think it is worse to be invisible than to be hated or loved. JJ could give Brad a piece of his mind as well. I would mind A Summer of JJ (Love) POV for 10 chapters or so.

 

     I actually think JJ is pretty much in peace about that, because as JJ noted, being Brad's most-loved (partner in Robbie, son in Will) comes with a pretty huge fucking price tag. It kind of bothers him but it mostly doesn't. I do think it'll drive this need in JJ to be famous beyond his family, though.

 

    The summer of '05 would be an interesting summer for what you're proposing, since that's when he's either working towards the Olympics or seeing his dreams crushed. Then you've also got Hurricane Katrina going on for a historical perspective, and it'll probably interest Will's scientific mind.

Edited September 10, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Kitt]

    I really have to disagree with you on this. I think it's precisely because they had such a tight relationship that became restrained over the past year that JJ will be hit really hard. Darius and Will more or less resolved whatever issues they had with Jeanine. JJ has not, and he spent what could have been the last weekend of his mother's life shopping in Europe and then ignoring her once he got to NYC to shop on 5th Avenue. That's the kind of thing that haunts a person for the rest of their life.

 

    Anyway, other than JJ cursing a bit more than I think he would (then again, he doesn't have to be Disney JJ since he's not around media or the judges), I thought his perspective was pretty spot-on. He's really angry and really repressed a lot of it, but still falls in line to go to his mother's house because he knows it's the right thing. I also loved that he just didn't get it and lovingly talked about his $300 Diesel jeans that he probably got at Lexington Ave in New York City, his Bally loafers, and Dior shirt, while taking the time to mess with his hair. (I imagine that JJ's hair is like Cody Simpson's- thick wavy blond hair that he has to put a lot of product in to keep tame.) I thought having JJ waiting on the rootop watching things go down was a great way to tie into the scene where Will is admiringly checking out the New York City skyline from the rooftop when Jeanine and Hank bought the condo.

 

     It angers me so much when I think about how many lives could've been saved if the people had been evacuated in the second tower after the first tower was hit.

 

 

     I actually think JJ is pretty much in peace about that, because as JJ noted, being Brad's most-loved (partner in Robbie, son in Will) comes with a pretty huge fucking price tag. It kind of bothers him but it mostly doesn't. I do think it'll drive this need in JJ to be famous beyond his family, though.

 

    The summer of '05 would be an interesting summer for what you're proposing, since that's when he's either working towards the Olympics or seeing his dreams crushed. Then you've also got Hurricane Katrina going on for a historical perspective, and it'll probably interest Will's scientific mind.

I have to agree about JJ - being at odds with his mother if/when she is killed in the collapse will definitely mess with his head. Hope someone that survives has his shrinks number on speed dial.

 

You are also right about the evac orders. Even if they waited till the second tower was hit there would have been many more lives saved if they had started evacs immediately. The shelter in place order may have seemed right at the time, trying to keep as many people off the streets as possible, but even if tower 2 had never been hit, the eventual collapse of one would have compromised the integrity of all the surrounding buildings. Everything for blocks should have been evacuated immediately.

 

As for the summer of '05 and Katrina - Leave Mark alone to finish this one will ya??? Don't go getting his mind running off on other evil tangents! He gets quite enough ideas on how to torture his characters and us readers all by himself!

[sandrewn]

Mark this is not a review. I just felt a need to post here.

 

I was trying to figure out why my internet was down. Then when it came back up, the first thing I saw was the New York skyline, the towers and smoke. As the reports started to come in, the very first thing I thought of, was the world as we knew it had forever changed. My next thought was of a day in the early 60s as I looked out from the observation deck of the Empire State building, saw the iconic Macys sign in giant letters, and the two new towers beening built with cranes working on their tops. That was my only visit to New York.

 

The following is more in line with my time in the military, but I think it works here.

 

They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old:

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

As the going down of the sun and in the morning.

We will remember them.

 

R.I.P.

[B1ue]

I have to think that Will will take very seriously his promise to Jeanine to take care of Maddie.  Except for Cody, who has never really shown any interest in the child, Will is going to be her closest surviving relative.  ***  Tim, do you know how this would work with Will being an emancipated minor???  ***  I know that in Texas an adult sibling would take precedent over a grandparent or aunt/uncle, but I am not sure how it would be dealt with since Will is under age but emancipated.  I mean he obviously would have the financial resources to take care of her but if there is not will, and I am going to bet there isn't one; what will happen?  Plus, a teen parent would be an interesting storyline for this saga; how much would Will grow up if he was suddenly responsible for a child???

 

Edit: The following does not reflect specific legal training in this field, but it does reflect the fact that certain members of my family have kids despite being unfit parents, and watching the various legal wrangling that took place, both inside and outside actual courts.

 

If Cody did not specifically decline his parental rights, custody would almost certainly fall to him. Even if he did, he's not a (legally) unfit parent, so I could see if going to him anyways, unless Jeanine has a will set-up that clearly delineated who would get custody of Maddie in the even of her death. I find the idea of her thinking of doing any such thing pretty hard, in light of her delicate mental condition over the last year or so, but her commitment to Hank may have inspired her (or gotten Brad to prompt her) to do so.

 

Honestly, all of the possible options besides Cody seem weak. Brad and Robbie would normally have the strongest case short of Cody, but current state of affairs being what they are, Will's lawyer(s) would make that difficult assuming he took an interest. And he would. If Will was a couple years older, he might have a shot, but not as it stands with other options besides him available. His living with JP and Stef would make them strong candidates, assuming they agreed to take her in. Jeanine's parents, assuming they are still alive, married, and not permanently estranged from their daughter, might have a case, but a family court would take into account that all of Maddie's siblings live on the west coast. All the custody proceedings I've witnessed took that into account even if the final decision did not reflect it.

 

Further, any candidates besides Cody would have to prove that he'd be unfit to be a parent, wouldn't they? I think his simply giving Maddie to Brad and Robbie to raise might prompt that, as that action would be a clear indication he has no intention of raising her himself, but I'm not certain. It seemed to work that way in the cases I saw, but there may have been other subtleties at work that eluded me.

 

These are just my opinions, of course. I look forward to seeing Tim's expert response.

Edited September 10, 2013 by B1ue

[PrivateTim]

I can't imagine any court awarding Will custody regardless of circumstances. Cody might be a party guy, but I don't think he is an ass. Unless Mark decides differently for poetic license Cody will get custody. What he decides to do with that custody is another matter.

 

If the family could get their act together as a group, I'd think they'd propose to Cody that Jack & Claire raise Maddy while Cody retains his legal rights. If Cody wanted nothing to do with Maddy, which again, I don't see, I think he'd have a had time walking away from his parental responsibilities.

 

Bottom line is it would be a legal morass since no one really has a solid legal claim. Brad would be Jeanine's common law husband since all Brad and Robbie could be at that point is RDP and I don't think they are; Will is a half brother, not full and wasn't living with Maddy at the time of her mother's (presumed at this point) death and the fact that he was emancipated from his mother and father could work against him.

 

Here's to hoping the zeitgeist of 9-11 pulls the family together to help Cody with one mind.

 

******************************************

 

In refreshing my memory on the events of 9-11 I ran across some interesting articles in USA Today (who knew USA Today could have interesting articles).

 

Delay Meant Death on 9/11

Inches Decide Life & Death on the 78th Floor

Desperation Forced a Horrific Decision

 

I won't post all the links, but the USA Today stories have links to the about 10 articles on that day. They are gripping, heart wrenching tales.

 

*******************************

 

For the CAP story, I thought the chapter was masterful and I really liked the various viewpoints, especially JJ's as he gets to view the insanity of his family from a slightly detached POV. I don't see JJ as the prig or vacuous youth that some do, nor do I see future JJ as a brand conscious Millennial. In some ways he may turn out to be the most normal.

 

********************************

 

As the story moves forward from 9-11, the CAP story not the day, I hope we get to see Jeff and his brother Ryan, Cody & Maddy, Kai, Cam, Alistair or whatever other good guy comes into Will's life and Brad as a more mature, focused person as his defense company ramps up.

[centexhairysub]

Edit: The following does not reflect specific legal training in this field, but it does reflect the fact that certain members of my family have kids despite being unfit parents, and watching the various legal wrangling that took place, both inside and outside actual courts.

 

If Cody did not specifically decline his parental rights, custody would almost certainly fall to him. Even if he did, he's not a (legally) unfit parent, so I could see if going to him anyways, unless Jeanine has a will set-up that clearly delineated who would get custody of Maddie in the even of her death. I find the idea of her thinking of doing any such thing pretty hard, in light of her delicate mental condition over the last year or so, but her commitment to Hank may have inspired her (or gotten Brad to prompt her) to do so.

 

Honestly, all of the possible options besides Cody seem weak. Brad and Robbie would normally have the strongest case short of Cody, but current state of affairs being what they are, Will's lawyer(s) would make that difficult assuming he took an interest. And he would. If Will was a couple years older, he might have a shot, but not as it stands with other options besides him available. His living with JP and Stef would make them strong candidates, assuming they agreed to take her in. Jeanine's parents, assuming they are still alive, married, and not permanently estranged from their daughter, might have a case, but a family court would take into account that all of Maddie's siblings live on the west coast. All the custody proceedings I've witnessed took that into account even if the final decision did not reflect it.

 

Further, any candidates besides Cody would have to prove that he'd be unfit to be a parent, wouldn't they? I think his simply giving Maddie to Brad and Robbie to raise might prompt that, as that action would be a clear indication he has no intention of raising her himself, but I'm not certain. It seemed to work that way in the cases I saw, but there may have been other subtleties at work that eluded me.

 

These are just my opinions, of course. I look forward to seeing Tim's expert response.

 

Well, the same warning goes for me; except for testifying in custody matters, I have no specific legal training.  I have been involved because of my job in custody issues in Texas, Colorado, and New Mexico; almost exclusively in Texas though.  I know that individual states have some really strange laws and rules in place when it comes to family law matters.

 

 

Cody would clearly have the strongest case as the child's biological father but we have not even seen Cody or heard him mentioned since Maddy's birth except in passing that he had not seen the child.  Cody has shown no interest in the child nor has he ever be portrayed as someone that found family important to him.  That being said, tragedy has a way of changing how people view the world and those around them and this could clearly wake up some feeling in him that would make him want Maddy; I doubt it but...  Actually with Cody's past and the details that the family knows about it; I don't think it would be hard to make a case against Cody in a court of law; the issue is that anything that would hurt Cody would at least in some ways hurt the family as well. 

 

 

If Will is viewed as an adult in this instance because of his emancipation; then at least in Texas he would have the next best claim on the child.  The issue with the emancipation is what I am unsure of in this instance; emancipation gives a minor adult status in some areas but not others and I am not sure if custody is an area that the emancipated minor would be considered adult in or not.  In Texas, if neither parent is alive or able to care for the child, an adult sibling is considered the primary next of kin.  Their wishes would over-ride either a grandparent or the aunt/uncle of the child.  If Will is considered a legal adult for the purpose of custody because of his emancipation; then he would be the clear choice after Cody to retain custody.  ***  Tim, where are you, we need you...  ***

 

 

Brad and Robbie would have no standing at all in Texas.  Neither of them have ever been married to Jeanine, and the fact that Brad fathered another child on Jeanine would not give him any standing at all.  Robbie did have power of attorney for Jeanine, at least for a while, and Jeanine may have given him other legal authority as well  We just don't know.  But unless Jeanine names them as guardians or named them in her will; they would have no legal rights to the child period because there is no relation by blood or marriage. 

 

 

Darius is of legal age but unless Jeanine adopted him legally; he would really have no standing because although Jeanine raised him, he was not her child by blood or legal adoption.  JJ is not of age and not legally emancipated and once again unless Jeanine adopted him legally would have no standing.  I know that in If It Fits there was talk about Jeanine, Robbie, and Brad all adopting the kids but then Bitty died and I don't remember if anything actually happened with it.

 

 

Jeanine went to work for Marie Crampton when Darius was born and Marie started taking care of him.  There have been several mentions of Jeanine going back to home to see her family but until the Sunday before at Jeanine and Hank's party, we have never met any of them.We did not meet a parent or brothers and sisters at the party.  Since there has never been any mention of parents or siblings; it would seem her family is more an extended family not immediate family and they would have little claim to Maddison. 

 

 

 

Two things make this sort of a moot conversation; one is that maybe Hank and Jeanine came to their senses and left soon after Robbie and the kids and secondly, Jeanine may have had a will spelling out who got custody.  Now, I do think that Jeanine and Hank will perish because of the set up but one can hope...I sort of doubt there is a will; with everything that Jeanine has gone through recently, setting down to have a will drawn up seems a little to much for her to have dealt with but...  Something else, I always thought was telling is that Maddison Graves was the child's name.  Her last name was the same as Jeanine, there is nothing in the name to tie the child to Cody.  I know this isn't a legal argument but it seems to be an indication of how little Cody is connected to the child...

[centexhairysub]

Well, damn, Tim answered while I was doing my writing and smashed all my well thought out reasoning....        

[centexhairysub]

Mark, I just cannot say enough about how well written the last couple of chapters have been.  With this one, the subtle way you have pulled us into the terror; the darkness of the staircase, the sudden lights in the face, the smoke and the heat, and finally the look of determination on the face of the firefighters as they went to their death..

 

 

Brad and Stef should be safe and have plenty of time to get away from the building.  JP would be safe if he would move away and I hope he does so as they finish moving the triage area further away.  Will, Darius, and Maddy should be safe.  I am hoping that Robbie started back up and then just couldn't get back through the smoke and heat and had to head back down.  If he made it through the area where the plane hit, he just would not have enough time to get back down before the building collapse at 9:59 a.m.  Jeanine and Hank just waited to long.  My one hope with Robbie is that I believe four people from above where the plane hit made it out.  With Will, Darius, and Maddy going further down, I am sure they are three of the four and Robbie would make the fourth.  We really haven't seen anyone else heading down; everyone else is going up. 

 

 

If Robbie doesn't make it; I don't know that Brad will ever fully recover.  The loss of Robbie will just cause Brad to try and control things just that much more and I am afraid it will make his relationship with Will just that much harder.  Robbie has always been the best person to in the end get Brad to see reason and release his need to control the situation.  Without Robbie, there really isn't anyone else that does that with any degree of success. 

 

 

If Senator Danfield perished, at least he died happy...  With the desk up against the wall, and the fact he was struck from the back; I would doubt that even if someone is trying to rescue those in his area that they could get into the office.  I know that he might be dead but this section was written in such a manner that even if he does die; it sure had some comedic underpinnings.  I am glad that Wade and his father have been able to repair so much of their relationship and they were in such a good place with each other.  It is so hard when someone passes and there are unresolved issues; it often makes it so much more difficult for those that survive. 

 

Bravo, Mark, Bravo....

[B1ue]

First thought on finishing this chapter:

"Is Centex going to be okay?"

 

Second thought:

"Damn. Elizabeth IS going to take over the reins for her husband. And her approach to politics is going to resonate really really well in the coming months. A grieving widow, acting as a pillar of strength to her family and community even through her grief is going to be able to get away with absolutely anything, including expressing any level of rage."

[Carlotta]

I will say it again, I am realy angry about Robbie. He does the most horrible thing, yes it is a nice and heroic gesture to try and save Jeanine and Hank but he knows there is a big chance they will not make it, so the goodbye message, and he does not know that Brad is probably safe, he was suppose to be on the top of the tower when the first plane crashed. So he goes on a sucide mission and his children are still not off the wood yet, with a good chance of leaving them completly orphans having lost all three parents. So that does not qualify as a heroic selfless act, it is pure stupidity. Lot of people risked thier lives to save other on the tower, and many lost their lives in the process, but they were professionnals who had an idea of the risk they took, and their children are safe and sound with the other parent or family member. That is a big difference, even if it not that much of a confort for the family they left behind.

[Daddydavek]

I will say it again, I am realy angry about Robbie. He does the most horrible thing, yes it is a nice and heroic gesture to try and save Jeanine and Hank but he knows there is a big chance they will not make it, so the goodbye message, and he does not know that Brad is probably safe, he was suppose to be on the top of the tower when the first plane crashed. So he goes on a sucide mission and his children are still not off the wood yet, with a good chance of leaving them completly orphans having lost all three parents. So that does not qualify as a heroic selfless act, it is pure stupidity. Lot of people risked thier lives to save other on the tower, and many lost their lives in the process, but they were professionnals who had an idea of the risk they took, and their children are safe and sound with the other parent or family member. That is a big difference, even if it not that much of a confort for the family they left behind.

 

I would give Robbie a break.   In the chaos of the moment lots of people made bad decisions.  It happens.  I think he was trying to do the right thing and gave Will the message in case Will made it and he didn't.  I cannot fault anyone for trying to save someone else.  We have something called 20/20 hindsight in that we know both towers end up collapsing and soon.   We have not seen the end, not even the beginning of the end of that horrible day yet.  While we all have our impressions from the picture Mark has painted, it is not a static canvas but one with sudden changes.  That day was a roller coaster and I think we are seeing some of that in the actions and descriptions of the characters portrayed.  There is a reason for the saying:   "War is hell!"   It is a very messy and distressing business.  

[PrivateTim]

I would really encourage people to click on the links I posted in response #642 and then read all the stories in USA Today that are linked. Not everyone who tried to help people and died doing so that day were professionals, quite a few were ordinary people. Many of the "civilian" heroes that day lived, which is how we know their stories and many people survived but their civilian hero did not, that is how we know that part of the story as well.

 

Centex, the "Inches decide life, death on the 78th floor" is one you might find especially interesting. The 78th Floor was the transfer lobby of the South Tower where people used express elevators to get the ground and it is where the tilted plane partially hit the South Tower. The lobby was packed from people trying to evacuate when the plane hit. I think only 7 people got out of the lobby alive using Stairway A.

 

I too hope Robbie doesn't get through, but we will have to wait.

[Carlotta]

I would give Robbie a break.   In the chaos of the moment lots of people made bad decisions.  It happens.  I think he was trying to do the right thing and gave Will the message in case Will made it and he didn't.  I cannot fault anyone for trying to save someone else.  We have something called 20/20 hindsight in that we know both towers end up collapsing and soon.   We have not seen the end, not even the beginning of the end of that horrible day yet.  While we all have our impressions from the picture Mark has painted, it is not a static canvas but one with sudden changes.  That day was a roller coaster and I think we are seeing some of that in the actions and descriptions of the characters portrayed.  There is a reason for the saying:   "War is hell!"   It is a very messy and distressing business.  

 

I agree that looking back always make decision easier, especlialy were you are not the one living it, but when you have children, you are a parent first, or should be. Children are the one left behind, and hearing your parent is dead but he/she try to save people, do not change the reality of loss. So when you have one parent already out of the picture the best thing you can do is being the pillar your child need the most. I may seem a bit vindictive here but I was an orphan before I reach my 18th birthday. I lived the hurt and the lonelyness that came with the death of a parent when my mother died first when I was 13 on a car crash and I saw my father drunk himself to death after that. Sure we cannot compare because here Robbie try to save someone not kill himself but with 2 parents probably already out of the picture the safety of the children come first. The people that I admire the most from that are from the plane that crash in Pensylvania. The passenger learn what happened at the WTC and they knew they were probably going to die not matter what, so they decided to at least avoid the death of others from the crash of the plane.