9.11

[Daddydavek]

Chapter 47 started out from JP's POV and explained a lot especially about Brad.  The switch to Wade was just as satisfying.  Elizabeth was put in her place and it was all done according to protocol, how droll!   The end of the chapter even had some slutty behavior.   A fully satisfying read.  My only regret is that Matt didn't make the call to Carullo and wind up both him and Will..... 

[methodwriter85]

   And Mark's started his venting at his personal frustration with the Bush II administration. It's going to be a long 7 more years, JP. You don't even know about the on-coming housing bubble yet.

 

   It's just interesting to watch the shift, because CAP has been since If It Fits set in the world of 90's Clinton Economic Boom America, when optimism was flying high after the early 1990's recession that toppled Bush I. That world of budget surpluses and no wars is completely done.

[Carlos Hazday]

Anyone think the end of 9-11 is near? Or is Mark going to include the wars in this book?

Maybe we should start a betting pool to see which character(s) we lose in the fight.

[Mark Arbour]

My favorite line from this chapter:

 

“Well that was very noble of Daddy to throw himself on top of that poor young woman to try and save her,” Mary Ellen said.

 

 

I can just visualize everyone in the room agreeing with her, except for Wade and Mary Ellen (who know better) and Elizabeth (who is really pissed off).

[rjo]

It is very interesting, no much more than that, these last chapters I would guess must that been harder to write. Once the horror and loss of 9 11 is done, and the dust has settled there is the pain and confusion that is left in it's wake. You can see it in the faces of each character, the racing of emotions. Just like Joey's mother bouncing back and forth between anger and sadness. Some are dealing with this much better than I would think. Some are not. However the real test is coming up: Robbie's service. This will test the family like nothing has done before.

 

Darius: has taken control of Jeanine's estate and service. Again he has stepped up as he did with Jeanine's health care. How I he dealing with the loss of both of his parents.

 

JJ: Seems to be doing much better than I thought he would. Maybe the problems of Christmas made him stronger, again Robbie's service will be the test.

 

Will: We can see the anger come forth, but he seems to be able to control it better than what he had a year ago. Again maybe the battles with his father prepared him for this. His loss seems to be the greatest he lost his mother, who he had worked so hard to restore his relationship with, Robbie , who he can gotten much closer to since the wars with his father, and Hank with whom he had bonded with more than any one else.

 

Brad: what can we see or say about Brad. On the surface he seemed so strong and now we see him so weak. Again I hope he will trust JP to help him through this.

 

Frank: is again another one who seems strong but is not. Isidore will have her work cut out for her helping him. Again the test is coming up soon.

 

Marie: with her confession to Will, she seems to have healed the rift and is in a better place. One of the only bright spots in this dark picture

 

Mary Ellen: Maybe the death of her father and independence from her mother has been good for her and brought out her humanity? At lest she seems to have joined for the moment with Wade in common cause.

 

Wade and Matt: seem to be dealing with this better. Hopefully, they can lean of each other. I think for Wade he has put all this away to deal with later. Sometimes that works if you can do it.

 

JP and Stef: JP has like Wade put his away, just like he did when he got the family ot of the city on 9 11. He job is now to help his family heal. Again the big test with come with Robbie's service.

 

All this and all these emotions because of a few moments on a clear sunny day in September. I believe this book is going to be the masterpiece of the saga. Again maybe the hardest to write but your best work. Why the best? Because these characters who were real before, now jump off the page so much we can feel their pain and loss. What more can an author ask for?

Edited October 14, 2013 by rjo

[PrivateTim]

   And Mark's started his venting at his personal frustration with the Bush II administration. It's going to be a long 7 more years, JP. You don't even know about the on-coming housing bubble yet.

 

   It's just interesting to watch the shift, because CAP has been since If It Fits set in the world of 90's Clinton Economic Boom America, when optimism was flying high after the early 1990's recession that toppled Bush I. That world of budget surpluses and no wars is completely done.

 

Except that the Clinton economic boom was just a continuation the the 1980's expansion and we already were at war, we just didn't recognize it as such, or didn't respond militarily. Starting with the first WTC bombing in 1993, through the attacks on the USS Cole, the embassies in Africa and Khobar Towers, Al-Qaeda was striking at the U.S., but no one took those attacks seriously and as a mission for the military to solve. The focus was, "we don't the military anymore".

 

And it was Bush's breaking his "no new taxes" pledge and his jump in spending that led to the rise of Perot and his defeat. Don't forget Clinton only got 43% of the vote.

[methodwriter85]

 

And it was Bush's breaking his "no new taxes" pledge and his jump in spending that led to the rise of Perot and his defeat. Don't forget Clinton only got 43% of the vote.

 

     Which Bush had to renege on because of the Grunge Era Recession. I'm also not sure how exactly the 1990's Clinton Boom was a continuation of the 1980's Reagan Boom.

 

      Anyway...

 

 

You know, there was a time when I was a republican, and I think that among other things, the reason that I hate those two men is because they destroyed the GOP as I knew it.

 

      It's going to really interesting to see how JP reacts as the Bush/Cheney adminstration develops. The rhetoric against them probably peaked in nastiness at the time of the 2004 election. I remember reading an article once that layed out how W. was like Hitler.

 

      I wonder if any of the new generation will wind up political. Gathan seemed more along the line of a provincial politican, not too worried about anything beyond his borders. I can see Will getting up in arms about gay marriage legalization, but I think that might be the extent of his political involvement. Darius and JJ will probably be apathethic. Especially JJ. He'll probably shy away from politics altogether.

 

 

I'll bet that Stef and JJ have fun shopping in New Brunswick because if they don't find anything they like, they can always make catty comments about the things they do find.

 

      God, can't you just imagine JJ's reaction to the Claremont Shopping Outlets? LOL. Or is it the Shoppes at the Mill or something?

 

      I could see JJ liking the Cherry Hill Mall. Of course, that's more South Jersey. He'd probably LOVE King Of Prussia Mall- I think that place would beckon to any serious shopper, as there's a Bloomingdales, a Nordstrom, AND a Neiman Marcus. I told this guy from Minnesota about KOP once and he immediatley wanted to start planning a trip. LOL. KOP definitely has to be one of the best malls in the United States.

Edited October 14, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

Except that the Clinton economic boom was just a continuation the the 1980's expansion and we already were at war, we just didn't recognize it as such, or didn't respond militarily. Starting with the first WTC bombing in 1993, through the attacks on the USS Cole, the embassies in Africa and Khobar Towers, Al-Qaeda was striking at the U.S., but no one took those attacks seriously and as a mission for the military to solve. The focus was, "we don't the military anymore".

 

And it was Bush's breaking his "no new taxes" pledge and his jump in spending that led to the rise of Perot and his defeat. Don't forget Clinton only got 43% of the vote.

 

The problem with economics is that those cause-effect relationships you cite are merely speculation.  And that works no matter which party you're trying to credit with disaster or success.  I'm personally rather skeptical about the true economic influence of individual presidents.

 

I can't think about Ross Perot without mentally conjuring him up as Dana Carvey's impersonation. 

[Kitt]

Somehow I see Stef more into the trendy shops along the main drag in Princeton.  The malls I think he would find awfully ...tacky? I just picture him more the individual attention from a shop keeper type rather than an off the rack sort of guy.

[mmike1969]

Sound like someone is still bitter that Clinton won over that other bush.

Edited October 14, 2013 by mmike1969

[PrivateTim]

     Which Bush had to renege on because of the Grunge Era Recession. I'm also not sure how exactly the 1990's Clinton Boom was a continuation of the 1980's Reagan Boom.

 

      God, can't you just imagine JJ's reaction to the Claremont Shopping Outlets? LOL. Or is it the Shoppes at the Mill or something?

 

      I could see JJ liking the Cherry Hill Mall. Of course, that's more South Jersey. He'd probably LOVE King Of Prussia Mall- I think that place would beckon to any serious shopper, as there's a Bloomingdales, a Nordstrom, AND a Neiman Marcus. I told this guy from Minnesota about KOP once and he immediatley wanted to start planning a trip. LOL. KOP definitely has to be one of the best malls in the United States.

 

The problem with economics is that those cause-effect relationships you cite are merely speculation.  And that works no matter which party you're trying to credit with disaster or success.  I'm personally rather skeptical about the true economic influence of individual presidents.

 

I said the "expansion of the 80's", I very pointedly did not call it the "Reagan Boom" because I do believe Presidents have limited ability to stimulate growth. There are policies they have that can allow capital to accumulate and tax policy that rewards or encourages risk. Also there are policies that can reduce the regulatory burden and you have to factor in who is in power in Congress because that will temper the results somewhat too.

 

A lot of people focus on Clinton's raising the income tax on the wealthy as proof that high marginal rates don't kill growth fail to remember that Clinton (with the GOP House) lowered the capital gains rate to 21% and that was when his economy really roared, the deficit dropped and went positive. But a lot of the successful companies of the 1990's had their founding in both the capital formation of the 1980's and the deregulation, whether by statute or lawsuit, of the 1980's. The MFJ that broke up AT&T fueled a telecommunications/technology boom that is still going on.

 

So many factors came into play for both Reagan and Clinton, but in each case the president worked with Congress and things got done. That all changed in 2001 (2000 election) and the bitterness that ensued. While I think some of the partisan bickering can be traced to the borking of Robert Bork (1987), I think it intensified and magnified in 2000 and things have never been the same since.

 

As to JJ, why in the hell would he like outlet shopping?? I am with Kitt, he'd be in the boutiques of Princeton or heading to 5th Ave in NYC.

[PrivateTim]

Sound like someone is still bitter that Clinton won over that other bush.

 

Oh.... and I had ZERO sympathy for George Bush, he got exactly what he deserved for being swayed by his former colleagues in the House to break his no new taxes pledge.

[rjo]

As congress gets to a minute to midnight, every election I voted for the man who won. Ever since Nixon all the way through Clinton. I vote for the person I thought would be the best for the country. I never voted for George W Bush however. Some of those presidents have disappointed me, including our present president. It is too bad they don't learn from the past. Lincoln, Washington, Teddy Roosevelt where not perfect but they knew what needed to be done for the good of the country and did it. I seems to me no one does that anymore. It is all for oneself and to hell with the country. It is all a game and the country looses.

Edited October 15, 2013 by rjo

[Carlos Hazday]

Actually, Reagan had probably the most influence in the economy since Kennedy's tax cuts. Reagan's policies did stimulate economic growth but it created 2 big problems;  first was that his Accelerated Cost Recovery System caused a real estate bubble which led to the S&L crisis and accompanying pain. The other problem I saw during the time was that tax cuts were not accompanied by spending cuts so deficits got higher and Bush I paid the price when the final result was a recession which cost him reelection.

 

Clinton's boom was primarily due to the deal he made with the Fed; he controlled budget deficits and the Fed kept interest rates low. Those two moves fed on each other and kept the economy expanding. Bush II followed the lower taxes and bigger deficits approach but he was not as successful as Reagan due to the wars and having Darth Vader as VP.

 

Mark is right though, macro and micro economics are great in a vacuum but in real life there are too many variables to really have clear cause and effect events. Government can nudge the Economy along but most of the time they actually do more harm that good. Damn! I sound like a Republican Capitalist Pig! LOL

[PrivateTim]

The S&L crisis had many fathers, but like all disasters became an orphan quickly. The first deregulation under Carter and the high interest rates of the Carter era coupled with the second deregulation under Reagan and ironically falling interest rates, both took their toll. The ACRS of Kemp Roth only lasted one year, being repealed by TEFRA in 1982 so it wasn't much of a contributor to the S&L crisis. Lack of oversight was a problem, "deregulation" didn't mean all the laws were repealed and there was no regulation, but some of the controls on the outright fraudsters like Keating were not exercised and in no small part to the "Keating Five" who all seemed to escape culpability.

 

Clinton's boom was because he worked with the Republican controlled House to restrain spending and because he, with the full acquiescence of the GOP House, drastically cut military spending, the so called "peace dividend". Military spending dropped from $427b in Reagan's last year to as low as as $296b under Clinton. I am not blaming Clinton, it didn't seem unreasonable at the time, but hindsight being 20/20, it was and having to rebuild the military back to acceptable levels was a big part of Bush II's deficits. Military spending was back up to $536b by 2006 and that excludes the expenses for Iran and Afghanistan, which were separate budgets. Would Clinton ever have had a surplus if military spending had maintained where it was under Reagan? Not likely. Would Bush have had as high of deficits if his DoD didn't have to make up for lost years? Probably not. But those are discussions to be had 20 years from now or 30 years from now in the hindsight of history and among those who have emotional stock in one side or the other.

 

If Bush II had wielded his veto pen and forced the Republicans who became born again spending hogs in the House to follow the fiscal restraint they preached, they might never have lost the House to begin with. I have no sympathy for the House leadership that thought they could spend money like drunken sailors in port and thought no one would notice.

Edited October 15, 2013 by PrivateTim

[George Richard]

I'd agree with Kitt on this one--I see Stefan (and JJ following him) as someone more likely to go to small shops with high-end designer merchandise. Maybe a department store if it provides private personal shopping for things that you wouldn't see out on the floor. I can't see them just going to a mall unless there are no other options.

Somehow I see Stef more into the trendy shops along the main drag in Princeton. The malls I think he would find awfully ...tacky? I just picture him more the individual attention from a shop keeper type rather than an off the rack sort of guy.

Edited October 15, 2013 by George Richard

[methodwriter85]

As to JJ, why in the hell would he like outlet shopping?? I am with Kitt, he'd be in the boutiques of Princeton or heading to 5th Ave in NYC.

 

    Right. That's why I wondered what JJ's horrified reaction would be to the outlet shops they just opened up at Claremont Mills, and why I said the only kind of mall I could ever see him at would be a really high-end one, like the King Of Prussia Mall. King of Prussia, yes. Mall of America or Lakewood Center, no.

 

    But I agree, for the most part he'd be into 5th Avenue, reinforcing my belief that JJ's destined to become a New Yorker. (If he doesn't wind up an ex-pat and move to Paris or something.)

Edited October 15, 2013 by methodwriter85

[methodwriter85]

    If there was any doubt that Mark was writing the Danfields in as a core CAP family, I think he dispelled that by giving them a long-lost relative.

 

    And a relative conveniently aged to Will/JJ/Marie/John.

Edited October 17, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Carlos Hazday]

Mark, thanks for not disappointing me and throwing in at least a quick blow job into the mix. We can always count on you fo give us some dick! LMFAO

[Daddydavek]

    If there was any doubt that Mark was writing the Danfields in as a core CAP family, I think he dispelled that by given them a long-lost relative.

 

    And a relative conveniently aged to Will/JJ/Marie/John.

Yup!  My thoughts exactly....

[Kitt]

I can't wait to see where the former Mrs Dansfield takes her anger not only at having been written out of the will but at the illegitimate heir being written in! I'm sure he will be visiting at Escorial in the not too distant future. That should be, in the words of an old comedy show, "verrrrrrry interesting!"

[B1ue]

    If there was any doubt that Mark was writing the Danfields in as a core CAP family, I think he dispelled that by given them a long-lost relative.

 

    And a relative conveniently aged to Will/JJ/Marie/John.

But we can't be finished yet. The boy needs to be a fan of JJ's, who will accept the adoration as his due but not return it, and John needs to fall instantly and irrevocably in love with Ethan. We're talking bad teenage poetry level of smitten. Will should notice none of this until the drama has truly hit the fan, at which point he'll wander in, be very confused for a moment, and then go "He-HEY! I'm the drama magnet around here. Why am I being left out?"

[rjo]

The last chapter 48, was wonderful. This whole time is painful, but Mark has handled it perfectly. When David reminded me Ethan was 15, I thought wow maybe Will would find his soul mate at 15. That would make Will and Wade related for real. so further bind the Cramptons and the Danfields together. If that works it would be even more interesting.

 

All these chapters have dealt with the aftermath, the pain and loss. We only have one more service, but that is the worst one. Wade said that the senator would not want his father to be sad and in pain. Robbie's service will bring out all the pain again. All of it. Robbie would be the last person to what his family to be sad. Honestly, even after a week or more the family is still on the edge. Brad said will the pain always be this bad? Will is having problems to. I am not sure who will be able to help them through it. All of them have been hurt and hurt bad. I wonder if JP is strong enough to help.

 

Again I must thank our beloved author for dealing with this subject as he has. Death and loss are hard at the best of times. This is not the best of times. Not just a single loss but four people on the same day. Overwhelming loss, all at the heart of this family. Good Luck, Mark I am glad I don't have to write this part of the story.

Edited October 17, 2013 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

But we can't be finished yet. The boy needs to be a fan of JJ's, who will accept the adoration as his due but not return it, and John needs to fall instantly and irrevocably in love with Ethan. We're talking bad teenage poetry level of smitten. Will should notice none of this until the drama has truly hit the fan, at which point he'll wander in, be very confused for a moment, and then go "He-HEY! I'm the drama magnet around here. Why am I being left out?"

 

It's be funny for Ethan to turn out to be a flaming figure skating fan type. Although I'm not sure John's going to fall in love with a guy- then again, Matt Price was also straight in Cross-Currents, and he fell in love with his best friend Andy Sharpe and became gay lovers with him. (Although really, who wouldn't fall deeply and madly in love with Andy Sharpe? He's like love catnip.) Maybe it could be Marie instead.

[Mark Arbour]

It's be funny for Ethan to turn out to be a flaming figure skating fan type. Although I'm not sure John's going to fall in love with a guy- then again, Matt Price was also straight in Cross-Currents, and he fell in love with his best friend Andy Sharpe and became gay lovers with him. (Although really, who wouldn't fall deeply and madly in love with Andy Sharpe? He's like love catnip.) Maybe it could be Marie instead.

You want John to fall in love with Marie?