Ellen Page comes out as gay

[Thorn Wilde]

Juno is one of my favourite movies, and the main reason for that is that the lead actress charmed me so completely from the first second. I've been a fan of Ellen Page ever since, so I was a little extra overjoyed when I fount out, no more than 15 minutes ago, that she's come out and joined the ranks of proud out queer artists. Also, her coming out speech made me weep buckets. It's a little long, but it's totally worth the watch.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XJkZf7KhjA

Edited February 16, 2014 by Thorn Wilde

[Y_B]

Somebody jumped on the Gay Declaration bandwagon

[Bill W]

The more the merrier.  The more that come out, the more walls crumble for a few more people.  

[Y_B]

I dont think people think at all about the message this kind of bullshit sends to those who are not in the best situation or in their best interest to come out. How thrilling it must be as a celebrated individual to come out to anticipated standing media ovation in a society where pro-gay is PC and the new norm. Did she DO something? No she just came out. First effing world heroism. 

[TetRefine]

First effing world heroism. 

 

Haha, this was pretty freakin' funny. I disagree with you to an extent, but this was hilarious.

[Aaron Penrose]

First effing world heroism.

LOL

 

That aside, I must disagree. I think it's very important for "celebrated individuals" to come out to an ovation, whether anticipated or not. It helps to better establish homosexuality as a cultural norm. People need to see that it should be applauded.

[Y_B]

People are tolerant, that's very different from accepting. Celebrities' grand come-out shenanigans aren't gonna make society more accepting. Everybody already knows gays are everywhere, no one is going to be in shock or in genuine positive disbelief by a celebrities public coming out. If anything it's just housewives gossip for a few days. I wish these people would stop making it seem like they are curing cancer because like I said, this is apparently the new form of high society heroism. All you need to do is come out publicly and you've somehow done the community a great service. Shit, MLK shoulda just said "I am Black."...cool bro...and????

 

what's legit exciting and what IS going to change the world is to see everyday folks living their lives who are gay and still live happy lives with integrity and good character. No banner of homosexuality flying over the house everytime they step out, no youtube come-ing out. But people who are secure and esteemed enough to live happily as they are without feeling he need of a Hollywood star to pave the way for them and who can build long term community trust and respect. You want a role model? Find one of them. YouTube 20millon viewed come out sensations? Gimme a break.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Y_B

[methodwriter85]

   I'll admit my reaction is kind of Meh to this. Ellen Page is not the first actress to come out of the closet, and that people are treating this like such a big deal kinda surprises me. If this were 1994, yeah. But in 2014? It's not like Ellen Page is this huge A-level star known for an ultra heterosexual bombshell image, so there isn't even really the shock factor.

 

  Good for her, but Heather Matarazzo, another indie darling, came out a very long time ago to very little a-do. It just feels kinda dated.

[crazyfish]

 Shit, MLK shoulda just said "I am Black."...cool bro...and????

 

EVERYBODY can see MLK is black. We would not be having coming out statements if people can see the gay in your face. 

 

I agree, coming out statements, when there's no skin in the game, feel indulgent, like retired footballers announcing that they were gay. No, it isn't curing cancer, but curing cancer doesn't require the sort of courage that  might mean the loss of respect and standing. We could argue that Ellen Page don't have any skin in the game, compared with Micheal Sam.  Whether she's courageous or not, who are you to rag on the poor,weak souls who glean hope and courage from her "inconsequential" statement?

 

 

Not everyone is as strong as you, not everyone is as well-adjusted as you. I'm sure, you can forgive us poor people. 

[Thorn Wilde]

I could point out the hypocrisy in the fact that every single thread about a male celebrity coming out is met by, 'Good for him, and isn't he hot?' on this site, while when I post a thread about a female celebrity suddenly we're having a socio-political discussion... But I'm sure that would violate some site rule or another about calling people out on their sexism and having a bad attitude, so instead I'm just gonna say that Hollywood is, in fact, hella homophobic, actors and actresses who come out do not have an easy time of it. People laud them publicly, but behind the scenes, offers are withdrawn, doors are closed and agents find convenient ways of breaking off their contracts. Coming out as an actor or actress is no less brave and just as potentially career destroying as doing so as a sports star. 

[TetRefine]

I could point out the hypocrisy in the fact that every single thread about a male celebrity coming out is met by, 'Good for him, and isn't he hot?' on this site, while when I post a thread about a female celebrity suddenly we're having a socio-political discussion... But I'm sure that would violate some site rule or another about calling people out on their sexism and having a bad attitude, so instead I'm just gonna say that Hollywood is, in fact, hella homophobic, actors and actresses who come out do not have an easy time of it. People laud them publicly, but behind the scenes, offers are withdrawn, doors are closed and agents find convenient ways of breaking off their contracts. Coming out as an actor or actress is no less brave and just as potentially career destroying as doing so as a sports star. 

 

You had me until the last part. This is absolutely not true at all. Hollywood is dominated by super-liberals where LGBT-whatever is celebrated. Yes, it could potentially be career damaging, but its nowhere near as dangerous as it is in the sports world. In the sports world, many big-timers are openly homophobic, and locker room culture by its very nature is incredibly homophobic. Despite the support Michael Sams has gotten, there are far more players who aren't going to want him in their locker room, but just haven't said so publicly. The same certainly does not apply to Hollywood. 

 

So no, coming out as an actress in up-the-ass liberal Hollywood is nowhere near as brave as coming out before you are even drafted into one of the most homophobic sports leagues in the world (the NFL). 

[Y_B]

No, it isn't curing cancer, but curing cancer doesn't require the sort of courage that might mean the loss of respect and standing

I accidentally 'liked' your post and don't see a way to undo it.

 

I find it incredibly unsettling you'd discount the discovery of a medical breakthrough of that magnitude by suggesting 'coming out' can be a bigger triumph. I guess Ellen Page deserves a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Y_B

[crazyfish]

I accidentally 'liked' your post and don't see a way to undo it.

 

I find it incredibly unsettling you'd discount the discovery of a medical breakthrough of that magnitude by suggesting 'coming out' can be a bigger triumph. I guess Ellen Page deserves a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

That's a misreading of my post.

 

I never claimed Ellen Page's statement is an achievement comparable to curing cancer. All I said is that the courage it takes to cure cancer and the courage it takes to come out are of two different kinds. Vastly different.

 

Trust me I'm a scientist, a physicist actually.  I can assure you, it doesn't take balls to do research or to discover that pesky Higgs Boson at CERN.(it took a lot of worker bee grad student coders)  Sure, It takes an extraordinary curiosity and ingenuity and cooperation, and that in itself is remarkable, but does it take the courage  in the face of adversity that might mean the loss of your job, your family, your identity, or even your LIFE? Nope. Take Alan Turing, brilliant, extraordinary scientist. We wouldn't have our modern computers, if not for his brilliant work. But he didn't off himself because of hard hard research. He offed himself because he was gay.

 

You're the who is playing the achievement olympics. You discount everything unless it's extraordinary, and even then you don't understand how different things, no matter how insignificant they might seem, could be extraordinary in small ways. 

 

Like I said, I agree somewhat with your point. People making coming out statements when they have no skin in the game feels indulgent to me. We could argue until thy kingdom come if Ellen Page, being an hollywood type, has skin in the game  

 

On the other hand, you claim first world problems, we snipe and mutter at those rich cushy gays and lesbians announcing whom they like to fuck.  No shit, first world problems, that we have the luxury to second guess the intentions of gays...  In the third world, you get killed, you get imprisoned, your family throws you off the bus when you announce you're gay! First world problems indeed. 

Edited February 17, 2014 by crazyfish

[Thorn Wilde]

You had me until the last part. This is absolutely not true at all. Hollywood is dominated by super-liberals where LGBT-whatever is celebrated. Yes, it could potentially be career damaging, but its nowhere near as dangerous as it is in the sports world. In the sports world, many big-timers are openly homophobic, and locker room culture by its very nature is incredibly homophobic. Despite the support Michael Sams has gotten, there are far more players who aren't going to want him in their locker room, but just haven't said so publicly. The same certainly does not apply to Hollywood. 

 

So no, coming out as an actress in up-the-ass liberal Hollywood is nowhere near as brave as coming out before you are even drafted into one of the most homophobic sports leagues in the world (the NFL). 

 

Bravery is a hard thing to measure, I think. I was talking about the sports world in general, rather than Michael Sams specifically, though you may be right in his case. You are less right about Hollywood being liberal. Outwardly, yes. It appears very liberal. Lots of actors are very pro-LGBT, the industry appears very pro-LGBT. But the fact is that a lot of the people who invest in Hollywood are ragingly conservative. Many if not most production companies will refuse to cast a gay actor in a leading role. The half of Hollywood that doesn't consist of bleeding heart liberals consists mostly of Mormons and Christians, and they're the ones with the money. There is also often a fear that out-gay actors will be damaging to the box office numbers. This duality makes the coming out process all the more difficult for actors. 

[crazyfish]

Bravery is a hard thing to measure, I think. I was talking about the sports world in general, rather than Michael Sams specifically, though you may be right in his case. You are less right about Hollywood being liberal. Outwardly, yes. It appears very liberal. Lots of actors are very pro-LGBT, the industry appears very pro-LGBT. But the fact is that a lot of the people who invest in Hollywood are ragingly conservative. Many if not most production companies will refuse to cast a gay actor in a leading role. The half of Hollywood that doesn't consist of bleeding heart liberals consists mostly of Mormons and Christians, and they're the ones with the money. There is also often a fear that out-gay actors will be damaging to the box office numbers. This duality makes the coming out process all the more difficult for actors. 

I was going to say that Hollywood is a weird construction of the liberalism and conservatism.  They'll be the most bleeding heart liberal until money gets involved.  I find that particularly nauseating because hollywood types like to clap themselves on the back, like to claim some kind of superiority over the rest of the country, for how "progressive" and "enlightened" they are.  

 

 I almost prefer a westboro hater over hollywood anointed types shilling about how liberal they are. At least I know that with a westboro hater, they are true to themselves. 

Edited February 17, 2014 by crazyfish

[Y_B]

You're the who is playing the achievement olympics. You discount everything unless it's extraordinary, and even then you don't understand how different things, no matter how insignificant they might seem, could be extraordinary in small ways.

One would think a senior scientist would resort to more than celebrating mediocrity and throwing around uninteresting platitude. And you clearly did not read my 1st post

Edited February 17, 2014 by Y_B

[Thorn Wilde]

Oh, ffs... Y_B, quit acting like a troll. Stay on topic, or I'll report your arse. It wouldn't be the first time.

[Y_B]

Not sure what made you think I derailed the convo.

Also, not sure what made you think you had relevant input between my and crayfishes exchanges

Also, not sure what made you think you threatening to report me (again) is interesting to me

 

Getting back to the original post - no, I don't find a by-product of Hollywood coming out is courageous, inspiring or triumphant. It also sends a pretty terrible msg to those who are not able to come out due to life inconveniences. There are far better things people do that do move humanity forward. Ellen Page is not one of those things

Edited February 17, 2014 by Y_B

[Thorn Wilde]

Not sure what made you think I derailed the convo.

Also, not sure what made you think you had relevant input between my and crayfishes exchanges

Also, not sure what made you think you threatening to report me (again) is interesting to me

 

Getting back to the original post - no, I don't find a by-product of Hollywood coming out is courageous, inspiring or triumphant. It also sends a pretty terrible msg to those who are not able to come out due to life inconveniences. There are far better things people do that do move humanity forward. Ellen Page is not one of those things

 

The conversation is about Ellen Page's coming out. Actually, I posted this topic because I thought her coming out speech was really good. If you'd listen to some of the things she's got to say to people who work with helping LGBT people accept themselves, who help prevent suicides, help people with depression and anxiety, you might realise that.

 

I think you derailed the convo because you are now questioning crazyfish's qualifications as a scientist in a sort of backhanded ad hominem attack rather than discuss the issue.

 

I feel like I had relevant input because I posted this thread to celebrate an actress I admire, not to give people a forum in which to bash her because they don't think she matters enough.

 

And I thought you might be a decent enough human being to care when people feel like you're disrupting the thread and behaving in a troll-like manner. 

 

 

I see another public figure coming out as a good thing, because I see it as us having more representation. I think it's cool when celebrities come out because it makes being queer feel a lot less lonely, a lot less scary and a lot less strange and different. I think a lot of people feel this way. And I don't quite understand why you feel the need to piss all over that. I don't understand why we have to have some kind of competition about who has the hardest time coming out, or why any person at all coming out because it felt like the right thing to do is a bad thing.

 

I had straight friends on Facebook weigh in on this with similar comments to what's been going on here. 'Oh, another celeb coming out. Yawn!' 'I don't get why it's a big deal.' 'I don't get why we're supposed to care.' You don't have to care. You can choose to care or you can choose not to. It doesn't have to be a big deal to you. But it is a big deal to some, so I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to step on people that this actually matters to.

[crazyfish]

One would think a senior scientist would resort to more than celebrating mediocrity and throwing around uninteresting platitude. And you clearly did not read my 1st post

Just because I appreciate Ellen Page coming out, that means I'm celebrating mediocrity? This conversation is going nowhere. 

 

Back to the thread.

So Ellen page .... is her statement indulgent or truly inspiring?  I lean towards indulgent. I don't think she's risking that much. For one, I don't believe as much as Thorn does that Hollywood penalizes openly lesbian celebrities.  Actually being lesbian or pretending to be lesbian might be a good thing careerwise. Hell look at the new music video with Rihanna and Shakira acting gay for the camera, or Madonna's stunts for attention. Do you remember that russian group TATU kissing on stage?  Either way, Ellen is a lot more open about her sexuality than I am about mine, so on that fact alone, she gets my head nod.

 

And so we're all clear, just because she gets my head nod doesn't mean I believe she should effing win the Nobel peace prize.

Edited February 17, 2014 by crazyfish

[Thorn Wilde]

Just because I appreciate Ellen Page coming out, that means I'm celebrating mediocrity? This conversation is going nowhere. 

 

Back to the thread.

So Ellen page .... is her statement indulgent or truly inspiring?  I lean towards indulgent. I don't think she's risking that much. For one, I don't believe as much as Thorn does that Hollywood penalizes openly lesbian celebrities.  Actually being lesbian or pretending to be lesbian might be a good thing careerwise. Hell look at the new music video with Rihanna and Shakira acting gay for the camera, or Madonna's stunts for attention. Do you remember that russian group TATU kissing on stage?  Either way, Ellen is a lot more open about her sexuality than I am about mine, so on that fact alone, she gets my head nod.

 

And so we're all clear, just because she gets my head nod doesn't mean I believe she should effing win the Nobel peace prize.

 

You're describing the music industry, which is an entirely different ball game. And those were all stunts. Straight people think lesbian stunts are awesome. Lesbianism as a subject for the male gaze is totally a cool thing. That doesn't mean that actual gay women in any way have it easier than gay men. When was the last time an out gay actor or actress got a leading role in a big Hollywood movie? And a romantic lead? No chance. Doesn't happen. 

[Y_B]

Just because I appreciate Ellen Page coming out, that means I'm celebrating mediocrity? This conversation is going nowhere..

You were no longer talking about Ellen Page, your statement that I quoted was your general insight into the potential extraordinary ripple effects that can be caused by insignificant little things and that you find my lack of recognition for it disappointing. The reason I said what I said was because I find most insignificant things to be insignificant and you presenting this fortune cookie script about "little things" makes me hesitant to believe you had much more to offer. And since we were talking about Ellen Page's coming out and that I had made it clear I find no value in her or her coming out, I obviously think you going extensively thru how you believe a person's coming out is incredibly courageous and inspirational is you making something out of nothing and celebrating mediocrity.

[methodwriter85]

   She's not a romantic lead, but Sarah Paulson of American Horror Story and 12 Years A Slave is having one hell of a career roll right now, and she's been an open lesbian for a pretty long time.

 

   I think Ellen's career isn't really going to be hurt by this, because Ellen Paige was never going to be the leading romantic lady in films, anyway. She's pretty much stayed in indie mode with some forays into blockbusters, and her career seems firmly on the character actress Parker Posey kind of track.

 

    However, if you're someone like Portia de Rossi, who DOES have the leading lady look, doors will indeed close because I think the thing about the leading lady status is that you need to be the woman that men want to sleep with, and fantasize that they can.

 

     I do wonder if Amber Heard's career faltered a bit because of her dating another woman and supposedly coming out, although she's now with Johnny Deep. I think it's okay for a leading lady type to say that she's bisexual, because then men can still imagine that they have a chance with her. There are a lot of openly bisexual women- Madonna, Evan Rachel Wood, I suppose Amber Heard, Angelina Jolie, etc etc.

[wildone]

Please note that any posts that are disruptive to the site and forums could fall under review of the Forum Moderation Team. Warning points or more could result for violation of site Rules.

 

Also, permanent closure of the topic could result.

[Krista]

I'm just going to say, good for her. It doesn't really matter about the when, why, how, etc. When a person has become comfortable enough within themselves is what is important.