Caitlyn Jenner

Carlos Hazday · June 2, 2015

I guess I'm happy for her, we all deserve the freedom to find our own way. But I'll miss Bruce. At least the Bruce of 1976, the one in Montreal. The one an eighteen year old about to start college had such a crush on. A crush I secretly shared with my girlfriend. Feeling happy and sad at the same time.

MrM · June 2, 2015

I guess I'm happy for her, we all deserve the freedom to find our own way. But I'll miss Bruce. At least the Bruce of 1976, the one in Montreal. The one an eighteen year old about to start college had such a crush on. A crush I secretly shared with my girlfriend. Feeling happy and sad at the same time.

Awww...big hugs!

dughlas · June 2, 2015

I remember and miss that Bruce too ... but hope Caitlyn is happy.

Headstall · June 2, 2015

The 'Olympic Bruce' was a masterpiece of masculinity, and we owe him for what he gave the world... now it's Caitlyn's turn to be truly happy... she is both stunning and courageous and still an 'Olympian'... her real gold medal is looking in the mirror and seeing herself... the person she was born to be. That will live as her greatest victory. God bless you Caitlyn Jenner.

Carlos Hazday · June 2, 2015

The 'Olympic Bruce' was a masterpiece of masculinity, and we owe him for what he gave the world... now it's Caitlyn's turn to be truly happy... she is both stunning and courageous and still an 'Olympian'... her real gold medal is looking in the mirror and seeing herself... the person she was born to be. That will live as her greatest victory. God bless you Caitlyn Jenner.

Pictures of Olympic Bruce winning the Decathlon can still make me chub up. His son Brody ain't chopped liver either, by the way...

I can't say I understand the feeling of being a gender other than what my chromosomes and genitalia say I am, but I accept and support. It's one of those things I could never write about, I'd make a mockery of it, since it's not within my realm of experiences or even a possibility for me. The thought of reassignment surgery makes me want to scream like a little girl!

Headstall · June 2, 2015

Pictures of Olympic Bruce winning the Decathlon can still make me chub up. His son Brody ain't chopped liver either, by the way...

I can't say I understand the feeling of being a gender other than what my chromosomes and genitalia say I am, but I accept and support. It's one of those things I could never write about, I'd make a mockery of it, since it's not within my realm of experiences or even a possibility for me. The thought of reassignment surgery makes me want to scream like a little girl!

I'm sure there's other things that can make you scream like a little girl . We don't need to understand her per se... we just need to understand that diversity exists and not just accept, but embrace the differences in people... and in her case, the right she has to be who she is. No doubt, Bruce was hot!!!-- but it doesn't matter what we thought. When Bruce looked in the mirror, he saw something different than we adoring fans did... and as much as I worshiped Bruce, I can't be sad that he has achieved happiness and contentment as Caitlyn. Besides, we still have lots of pictures of smoking-hot Bruce to look at

dughlas · June 2, 2015

I had a sister, younger than I, she would be 50 but she's been gone 11 years. I adored her from the day she was born. You see I'd all but demanded a sister no if's, ands or buts ... as far as I know that was what most everyone else was hoping for too. Jaki was a tomboy. I remember her at two-years-old sitting on the swings in our neighbor's yard. She was wearing a very pretty blue and red plaid smock dress with lace trim and my plaid driving cap. From the time she was able to express herself she would often say she wished she was a boy. We all thought it was because she wanted to be able to do the things I did and to her I was able to do those things because I was a boy not because I was nearly seven years older. We spent summer days at my grandparents farm and there was a small creek that we spent the afternoons wading and splashing in. Before puberty Jaki would always go topless, just wearing the bottom of her suit, it looked like a speedo. Her hair was styled in a short pixie cut because she hated having longer hair, too much trouble ... she looked like a boy and people who didn't know her usually mistook her for one. She was thrilled. Jaki was a drummer, the only female in the high school band drum-line. The other drummers were her best friends. She drove a mini-pickup, a Dodge D50 if I remember correctly and dressed in jeans and tee shirts. By this time her body was obviously female and she dated a couple boys but mostly remained single and hung with the guys. She wasn't happy, there were drugs and alcohol. bouts of depression, a suicide attempt, anorexia and bulimia, bipolar and other diagnoses ... she would tell our mother that she just didn't feel right inside, there was something missing. She eventually moved to Hawaii and worked as a personal trainer, if not for breasts she could have passed as an athletic teenaged boy. She was happiest there though not truly happy. She was never who she thought she should be ... that's the way she died. When the Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner issue came to light our mother and I talked about it. While we don't know for certain we both strongly believe now looking back my sister was supposed to be my little brother. God, I miss Jaki.

MikeL · June 2, 2015

Ho hum. Can't help but wonder if this isn't just another episode in the Kardashian saga.

Lisa · June 2, 2015

Dug, I'm so, so sorry for your loss. It's such a shame Jaki was never able to truly experience life as a boy. And back then, when you guys were growing up, no one ever spoke of being born into the wrong body; it just wasn't discussed. I hope now, wherever she is, she is finally at peace.

I give big kudos to Caitlyn for being brave (yes, I believe she is brave), and doing something she had wanted to do for many, many years. I hope now she can finally be happy in her own skin.

And Carlos - IMO, Bruce couldn't hold a candle to Brody. Brody is one hunka, hunka sexy boy!

Krista · June 3, 2015

I don't know much about that entire family... I want to keep it that way.

I do think she is a brave person. Doing so as a public figure that a lot of people have opinions on. A lot of these people are unhappy for the majority of their lives, it is nice to see them finding happiness their own way. I couldn't imagine thinking/feeling that I was born to the wrong body.

AceKebabs · June 3, 2015

I dont really know what to feel about this.. I mean the guy has a wife and daughters...

Krista · June 3, 2015

I dont really know what to feel about this.. I mean the guy has a wife and daughters...

Transgender was a 'young' word back in the day when she would be dating and marrying, starting a family. Not a lot of people understood it, a lot of people still are confused about what all that the word entails. I believe she said that she still is sexually attracted to women. It is more or less realizing that you are born to the wrong body. It has nothing to do with sexual fantasy or anything like that. There are a lot of stigmas more so than being gay/lesbian attached to that word. So you have to imagine that there is also a lot of fear for someone to come to that conclusion as well.

There is no reason to limit yourself to what you want (within legal reason), based on who you think you are. She probably wanted a wife and children. So she got married and had them.

Now that being transgender is becoming a little bit more accepted.. with more people becoming more enlightened to that, then it is a better time. Also she is older, her children are for the most part grown up. So they can understand the transition. She would have had more to lose when they were younger, now they can make the decisions for themselves whether or not to accept and acknowledge the transformation she made. Sometimes people have to make decisions for themselves that are difficult and seem selfish, but if it is the difference between accepting yourself, not being afraid, and finally being happy... I don't think I could judge a person for that.

Timing makes people so critical and it is sad. There is no way to judge what she felt or when she felt it. So there is no way to know when the appropriate time for such decisions are to be made.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Krista

Lisa · June 3, 2015

I dont really know what to feel about this.. I mean the guy has a wife and daughters...

Two ex-wives I believe (isn't she divorced from Kris?), and two sons with her first wife.

Carlos Hazday · June 3, 2015

3 ex wives, 2 sons with the first one, 2 daughters with the third.

MikeL · June 3, 2015

Per Wikipedia, Jenner is the father of three sons, three daughters, and four stepchildren.

Jenner is a professed Christian, leans politically conservative, and is a Republican.^[52]^[53] Her first marriage was to Chrystie Scott (née Crownover) from 1972 to 1981. They have two children, son Burton and daughter Cassandra, known as Burt and Casey respectively.^[54]^[55] Jenner and Scott's divorce was finalized the first week of January 1981.^[56] The same week, on January 5, 1981, Jenner married her second wife, actress Linda Thompson, at the Oahu, Hawaii, home of film producer Allan Carr.^[57] By February 1986, Jenner and Thompson had separated, and they subsequently divorced.^[58] Jenner and Thompson have two sons together, Brandon and Sam Brody, known as Brody.^[59] The two sons starred on the reality show The Princes of Malibu. Brody Jenner was also on the reality show The Hills.

Jenner's third marriage, to Kris Kardashian (née Houghton), occurred on April 21, 1991, after five months of dating.^[60] They have two daughters, Kendall and Kylie. As Bruce, Jenner was also the step-parent to Kris's four children from her previous marriage to the late lawyer Robert Kardashian: Kourtney, Kim, Khloé and Rob. The couple announced their separation in October 2013,^[61] though they had actually separated a year earlier.^[62] Kris filed for divorce in September 2014, citing irreconcilable differences.^[63] Their divorce terms were finalized in December 2014 and went into effect on March 23, 2015, due to a six-month state legal requirement.^[64]

AceKebabs · June 3, 2015

Transgender was a 'young' word back in the day when she would be dating and marrying, starting a family. Not a lot of people understood it, a lot of people still are confused about what all that the word entails. I believe she said that she still is sexually attracted to women. It is more or less realizing that you are born to the wrong body. It has nothing to do with sexual fantasy or anything like that. There are a lot of stigmas more so than being gay/lesbian attached to that word. So you have to imagine that there is also a lot of fear for someone to come to that conclusion as well.

There is no reason to limit yourself to what you want (within legal reason), based on who you think you are. She probably wanted a wife and children. So she got married and had them.

Now that being transgender is becoming a little bit more accepted.. with more people becoming more enlightened to that, then it is a better time. Also she is older, her children are for the most part grown up. So they can understand the transition. She would have had more to lose when they were younger, now they can make the decisions for themselves whether or not to accept and acknowledge the transformation she made. Sometimes people have to make decisions for themselves that are difficult and seem selfish, but if it is the difference between accepting yourself, not being afraid, and finally being happy... I don't think I could judge a person for that.

Timing makes people so critical and it is sad. There is no way to judge what she felt or when she felt it. So there is no way to know when the appropriate time for such decisions are to be made.

I...am just gonna leave it at that

not really a good place to argue lol nuff said Edited June 3, 2015 by Peter Piper

Thorn Wilde · June 9, 2015

Caitlyn's kids will learn to love her as another mum rather than a dad. It might be tough, especially with all the publicity around it, but it's not like they were especially private people to begin with.

I read that Caitlyn actually started hormone replacement therapy back in the late 80s or so. Then she met and fell in love with Kris, and stopped. She chose love and family over her own gender identity. Most likely the 'irreconcilable differences' she and Kris divorced over had something to do with her desire to transition and become Caitlyn. But how different is it really from most divorces? People change and drift apart. In this case the change was just somewhat more drastic than in most.

I support Caitlyn's decision and wish her all the best. I do think there are less ostentatious ways of coming out than a pin-up spread, though. A lot of feminists are criticising Caitlyn Jenner (and other celebrity transwomen like Chelsea Manning) for seemingly wanting to define womanhood into something from the 1950s, when so much effort has been made in trying to break away from these gender stereotypes and and roles (work that has had positive effects for the LGBTQ+ community as well). I can't say I exactly disagree. As many genderqueer people will tell you, gender is a fluid concept, a social construct based on perceived differences due to genitalia, differences that most research will tell us is due to nurture, not nature. Boys and girls don't have different brains. Instead, our brains are shaped by our experiences. As such, there can be greater differences between the brains of two people of the same sex than there are in general between the brains of men and women.

Gender dysphoria and the often resulting body dysmorphia are very complex diagnoses. The reasons behind them are many and varied, and as we don't even fully understand the actual differences between cisgendered men and women beyond the physical, we don't stand a chance of fully understanding what causes gender dysphoria in humans. All we can do, I guess, is accept that this is a thing, and give our support to the people affected by it. In the end, I think the most important thing about Caitlyn Jenner's very public coming out is how much hope it can give to transgendered people out there looking for courage and acceptance. That's a really powerful thing.

...admit it. You've all missed my contrary ways.

Carlos Hazday · June 9, 2015

Contrary ways? Ha!

The entire family has made millions by being in the public eye, although in my view the transition is genuine, the hoopla around it is just a way of making more money for ALL of them. (Maybe not the 1st son, he's mostly stayed under the radar.)

As far as the feminists bitching about the spread go, FUCK THEM! I fully support equality but I support the right to choose even more. I thought that was one of the tenets of the movement, freedom to follow whatever path a woman chose. If some decide they want to flaunt their looks, that's following the path they chose.

How's that for contrary?

Thorn Wilde · June 9, 2015

Contrary ways? Ha!

The entire family has made millions by being in the public eye, although in my view the transition is genuine, the hoopla around it is just a way of making more money for ALL of them. (Maybe not the 1st son, he's mostly stayed under the radar.)

As far as the feminists bitching about the spread go, FUCK THEM! I fully support equality but I support the right to choose even more. I thought that was one of the tenets of the movement, freedom to follow whatever path a woman chose. If some decide they want to flaunt their looks, that's following the path they chose.

How's that for contrary?

<3

Headstall · June 9, 2015

Imagine, after years of not being able to express who you are, as a woman... to finally see yourself as a pin-up model... the beauty standard of the time Caitlyn was born... that, to me, would be true empowerment. She has placed restrictions on herself for years... why after fighting her demons and emerging into the light, would she allow the opinions of a group of feminists to try to place more restrictions on her... I agree with Carlos... F--- Them. Caitlyn... rock that body, girl!

Carlos Hazday · June 9, 2015

I have one question about this entire situation and it may seem flippant but I'm serious...

Bruce wasn't gay, he was attracted to women. Does that mean Caitlyn is also attracted to women? Is she a lesbian? If he keeps his wee wee, would he use it to have intercourse with other females? Will it even work considering the estrogen injections. If he cuts it off -OUCH! just the thought makes me cringe- I won't use the exact phrase but does he then just bump...?

I've never been too interested in Transgender individuals. Never had an issue if that's what rocked their boats. I've met and interacted with a few Chicks with D@@@@ (for lack of a better term) but I've never really had a conversation with any of them. I'm ready to sit down with one of them for a long interview.

Arpeggio · June 9, 2015

I have one question about this entire situation and it may seem flippant but I'm serious...

Bruce wasn't gay, he was attracted to women. Does that mean Caitlyn is also attracted to women? Is she a lesbian? If he keeps his wee wee, would he use it to have intercourse with other females? Will it even work considering the estrogen injections. If he cuts it off -OUCH! just the thought makes me cringe- I won't use the exact phrase but does he then just bump...?

I've never been too interested in Transgender individuals. Never had an issue if that's what rocked their boats. I've met and interacted with a few Chicks with D@@@@ (for lack of a better term) but I've never really had a conversation with any of them. I'm ready to sit down with one of them for a long interview.

If Caitlyn is attracted to females, she will be a lesbian. She can either lose her penis or keep it, depending on whether or not she feels comfortable enough for gender reassignment surgery. Some transgender people decide against it in the end, so who knows.

Thorn Wilde · June 9, 2015

I have one question about this entire situation and it may seem flippant but I'm serious...

Bruce wasn't gay, he was attracted to women. Does that mean Caitlyn is also attracted to women? Is she a lesbian? If he keeps his wee wee, would he use it to have intercourse with other females? Will it even work considering the estrogen injections. If he cuts it off -OUCH! just the thought makes me cringe- I won't use the exact phrase but does he then just bump...?

I've never been too interested in Transgender individuals. Never had an issue if that's what rocked their boats. I've met and interacted with a few Chicks with D@@@@ (for lack of a better term) but I've never really had a conversation with any of them. I'm ready to sit down with one of them for a long interview.

To answer the question of 'does he then just bump': I think you'll find lesbian sex is more fingers and tongues than anything else, most of the time, unless there are toys involved (this info isn't too graphic for the forum, is it? Feel free to censor me if so, mods).

Arpeggio is correct that far from all transgendered people end up having reassignment surgery. I know several non-op transpeople myself. I know that Caitlyn Jenner said she's considering it, though. Seeing as she's already had quite a bit of surgery, it seems likely she'll go through with it. Male-to-female surgery is easier to do right than female-to-male, but more difficult to reverse, obviously.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Thorn Wilde

Lisa · June 9, 2015

Someone told me Caitlyn had said in an interview that she still liked women, but she was straight. I'm confusing myself I think. She was straight as a man, and she still likes women, but I don't think she identifies as gay. That whole gender/sexuality thing confuses me. They say that gender and sexuality are two completely different things, which I can see, but when genders change, wouldn't the sexuality change in order to maintain the previous sexuality? And does that even make sense? lol

Carlos Hazday · June 9, 2015

Someone told me Caitlyn had said in an interview that she still liked women, but she was straight. I'm confusing myself I think. She was straight as a man, and she still likes women, but I don't think she identifies as gay. That whole gender/sexuality thing confuses me. They say that gender and sexuality are two completely different things, which I can see, but when genders change, wouldn't the sexuality change in order to maintain the previous sexuality? And does that even make sense? lol

Thanks, Lisa. My thoughts on the subject were hazy to begin with; you just muddled them up entirely.

Thorn, the trans individuals I've associated with still had a working wee wee... Sorry just trying to keep on the good side of the mods.

Caitlyn Jenner

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