Struggling For Gay Equality In The South

[Ron]

Interesting article in today's NYT about the experience of being gay and the effects of same-sex marriage in the Southern United States. The article writes of the experiences of four couples and compares the year 2013 to present day 2015. I found the article and the included video to be quite moving and wanted to share it with you. There is an option at the end of the article to submit your own personal experiences. If anyone would like to include their own narrative about the new reality here, then you're very welcome to share (remember, no political discussions). I included the link for those who would like to read the article and watch the video.

 

Struggling for Gay Equality in the South

 

[Bill W]

As can be seen with the lingering mixed reactions to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, since some southerners are still hoping, and even attempting, to get that overturned, how can the LGBT community expect any better?  You may be able to pass laws that would bring these southerners into the current century, yet many will still continue to kick, scream and try to find a way around it.  

[Cia]

Please remember not to let this conversation turn political.

 

As for me personally, well my dad is a southern redneck living in the Pacific NW for 30 years, and he STILL acts like a Neanderthal. I see very little reason that the south will be changing anytime soon.

[JamesSavik]

Gay marriage in the South is as useful as a bicycle would be to a fish.

 

What good is it when you get fired from your job and your lease is terminated?

 

Sure you are now married but, unemployed and homeless. That's so much better!

 

With no anti-discrimination protection, you might as well wear a t-shirt that says f*ck me over.

Edited July 31, 2015 by jamessavik

[Zombie]

As can be seen with the lingering mixed reactions to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, since some southerners are still hoping, and even attempting, to get that overturned, how can the LGBT community expect any better?  You may be able to pass laws that would bring these southerners into the current century, yet many will still continue to kick, scream and try to find a way around it.

I really don't think you need worry in that score. You'll always have reactionaries against any particular social change, but the tide of opinion in Europe and the U.S. is overwhelming. Africa, Russia, the Middle East and many other countries - well, that's a completely different story So LGBTs planning foreign travel in those parts must understand the risks and decide if they're prepared to moderate their behaviour to ensure they get back home safe.

 

Gay marriage in the South is as useful as a bicycle would be to a fish.

 

What good is it when you get fired from your job and your lease is terminated?

 

Sure you are now married but, unemployed and homeless. That's so much better!

 

With no anti-discrimination protection, you might as well wear a t-shirt that says f*ck me over.

I guess anti-discrimination protection is the next step. It's the only viable long term outcome

Edited July 31, 2015 by Zombie

[MikeL]

I guess anti-discrimination protection is the next step. It's the only viable long term outcome

 

There must be thousands of lawyers in the south who are quite pleased with the way this is going.  Think of all the lawsuits they can file in behalf of legally married LGBT couples who find the Supreme Court ruling on marriage equality leaves them subject to all sorts of discrimination.  And then there are thousands of attorneys who can defend the people and businesses who discriminate.

 

Who are the real winners?

[Zombie]

There must be thousands of lawyers in the south who are quite pleased with the way this is going.  Think of all the lawsuits they can file in behalf of legally married LGBT couples who find the Supreme Court ruling on marriage equality leaves them subject to all sorts of discrimination.  And then there are thousands of attorneys who can defend the people and businesses who discriminate.

 

Who are the real winners?

 

Yes, lawyers always win

 

Even though 50% are always wrong...

 

 

 

 

.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Zombie

[TetRefine]

Gay marriage in the South is as useful as a bicycle would be to a fish.

 

What good is it when you get fired from your job and your lease is terminated?

 

Sure you are now married but, unemployed and homeless. That's so much better!

 

With no anti-discrimination protection, you might as well wear a t-shirt that says f*ck me over.

 

Thats the problem with the only real influential LGBT lobby (The HRC) being the crony of wealthy, white, gay men in the Northeast and California cities. They are financially secure enough not to have to worry about any of the stuff you listed. Gay marriage became their personal benefit, and their money to the cause followed suit. Yet they are forgetting everyone who isn't older or wealthy or white or living in a big city, and forgetting how discrimination in the workplace and housing is a far more pressing issue to these people when compared to the right to marry. 

 

The singular focus on the rallying cry of the rich, old, white, gay man to the detriment of all others is one reason I hate the Human Rights Campaign. Pennsylvania still does not protect against LGBT workplace discrimination (only Philadelphia and I think Pittsburgh does). Just a couple weeks ago a beloved and long-time Catholic school teacher was fired for being a lesbian. That happened in one of the wealthiest, more liberal suburbs of Philadelphia. So if it still happens from time to time in the Northeast Corridor, I can only imagine what happens down south of the Mason Dixon Line. 

Edited July 31, 2015 by TetRefine

[Zombie]

Well, the HRC doesn't have a monopoly. Just movements for change begin with folks like you feeling strongly about an issue. And then doing something about it.

 

With social media, getting something off the ground now is much easier now than it was back in the 60s and 70s when gay rights pioneers were working their butts off to get the social changes we all benefit from today.

[Ron]

Precisely right, Zombie. Movements of change begin with ordinary people who rise to a challenge. It could be any challenge, and same-sex marriage was a big, big, big win and could - with enough effort - be the leading tile in a domino effect of further rights. Ultimately, I think, it will be kind of hard to say marriage is a right and then turn around and deny that same couple any sense of security. As Mike says, it won't be immediate or without litigation, but without standing up it will never get done.

 

And those rich, old, and white gay men ... they did a lot of work in getting us this far.  It wasn't easy. Every rise is built on the efforts of those who came before and if those who benefit from the effort don't make their own efforts there will be no gain for the next generation.

[MikeL]

Yes, lawyers always win

 

Even though 50% are always wrong...

 

 

 

 

.

 

99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.

[TetRefine]

And those rich, old, and white gay men ... they did a lot of work in getting us this far.  It wasn't easy. Every rise is built on the efforts of those who came before and if those who benefit from the effort don't make their own efforts there will be no gain for the next generation.

 

Yes, they did a lot...for causes that largely benefit them and others like them. If you are a minority gay man, minority lesbian, or trans (of any color), you have pretty much been left out of all the progress that has been made. I see it so clearly on a daily basis in the city, and it quite frankly sickens me. The HRC and their backers only serve a subset of the LGBT population, aka those who are white and with money. They leave out everyone else from their efforts. 

 

Quite frankly, I would have much rather seen employment and housing anti-discrimination laws passed before gay marriage. I'm 23, and have zero plans of being married any time soon. But I am employed in a state that does not protect me from being fired because I have a boyfriend and/or have sex with other men. Marriage doesn't mean shit to me, but keeping my income and job do.

 

Its great to be gay in America in 2015, provided you are older, white, financially successful, and live in a major city. For everybody else, there is a sense of being left behind. 

[Graeme]

Everyone in this thread has a valid point. There are multiple areas of discrimination and same-sex marriage was only one of them. Employment is another and is easily argued as the more important one.

 

However, when there are multiple goals of different sizes, sometimes the best approach is to go for the smaller ones and use those as building blocks to get to the bigger ones. Going for the bigger ones without first having the foundations in place is a much tougher fight.

 

Legally, I suspect same-sex marriage was an easier fight than anti-discrimination laws. The danger is that there will be a discrimination backlash, but that could've happened for a failed bid at anti-discrimination laws, too.

 

Ultimately, the goal is for society to see gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals, transgender, and inter-sex people as a normal part of society. If you look at it from that perspective, same-sex marriage is an important stepping stone because it brings the issue front-and-centre for a lot of people who otherwise have not thought about it, and normalises same-sex relationships. When same-sex relationships are seen as normal, it's much harder to justify employment discrimination on that basis.

 

As I see it, short-term, anti-discrimination laws for the workplace are the more important goal, but longer term, same-sex marriage will have the bigger impact. Tactically, do you go for the immediate need, or do you go for the item that gives the best longer-term benefit?

 

Personally, I can't say which should've been the focus. One goal has been achieved. Now it's time to work on the second goal.

[TetRefine]

Its threads like this that really make me despise the decision to remove The Soapbox.... 

[Drew Espinosa]

Its threads like this that really make me despise the decision to remove The Soapbox.... 

From what I understand, it was necessary to remove it

 

As for the topic at hand, I think further progress will be made in the coming years, especially in the South

[TetRefine]

From what I understand, it was necessary to remove it

 

Very debatable, but its old water under the bridge at this point.