AFriendlyFace

I pretty much agree with everything Scoopny said, but let me also examine this question from a slightly different perspective. In most cases marriage is simply better for the relationship. Of course it's not essential, and of course for some couples it might actually make the relationship more difficult, but generally and overall it's better for the relationship. There's a very tangible and public commitment once you're 'married' (or I would also say have had a 'commitment ceremony' or 'domestic partnership' or anything like that). You've been presenting yourself to people as a married (committed/registered/whatever) couple. When you introduce someone casually as "your boyfriend" there is not the automatic assumption of permanence from the perspective of the new person. Similarly even 'partner' probably doesn't convey the same sense of permanence as 'husband' does. So, for the sake of argument let's assume that two couples are equally personally committed to each other within their relationship, but one of them has formalized the arrangement and the other hasn't. All else being equal the added social pressure and outside expectation of permanence (not to mention any legal bonds, but as I said I'm not approaching it from that angle) will likely add something, however small or great depending on the couple and situation, to the couple's motivation to work through problems and stay together. On a very basic level I'd rather have to explain to people, "I broke up with my boyfriend" than "I divorced my husband." Of course this added pressure and commitment can be stressful, and it can also make it harder to leave a relationship that really does need leaving, but that's why it's important to be sure before you enter into such an arrangement. Even then of course, sometimes things just change or don't work out. The other angle I would take is that apart from the social legitimation of the relationship which has external influence, there's also an internal legitimation that happens for the couple. If they do consider themselves extremely serious and permanent yet still are not recognized as such that can cause serious emotional stress and over time may even make them feel - however unconsciously - that their relationship really is somehow inferior, or at least less serious, than their heterosexual counterparts. As such a formalization of the relationship can go a long way to protecting the couple from some of this stress and, yes, boost their 'self esteem' about the relationship. Anyway, marriage isn't for everyone, and I in no way mean to imply that that's the way anyone else should conduct their relationship. I just think that for many couples it has benefits, independent of legal rights, for the relationship itself. Whatever works for people is what they should go with Take care all, Kevin

The Yellow Tail Shiraz is good; I've had it before too.

That's the simplest, yet most laudable sentiment expressed thus far in my opinion.

Awww that does sound really romantic Well that brings up an interesting question then: would the proposal really matter very much if you were already open to the idea and in love with the person? I mean what if it were really lame and he mumbled or freaked out or something and finally just ended up shoving a ring into you hand and saying "marry me" or something. Or what if he were completely unromantic and didn't even try very hard? In general does the proposal itself matter? On the one hand I want and expect the proposal to be romantic and meaningful (whether I'm proposing or being proposed to), but on the other hand I'd hate to think the proposal itself would actually sway my (or his) decision either way. I would want the proposal to be all romantic, starry eyed, violin music, hand holding, gentle kiss thing, but I would want the actual decision to be very intellectual, practical, and pragmatic. I think the proposal would only really matter insofar as it would matter to me, so if my boyfriend were proposing I would expect him to do his best to make it romantic and special for me - even if he didn't care about such things. The fact that he might avoid bothering to make the effort would perhaps be symptomatic of a more general incompatibility. If he simply tried, but got nervous and messed it up somehow, then I wouldn't care at all and he would still get an "A for effort". However, unless his fumbled proposal were particularly endearing I'd probably still prefer to have the proper, romantic one. Anyway, I guess the point of this pondering is, "Would the proposal itself effect your decision to marry someone" and/or "Should your proposal effect their decision? Would you want it to?"

Dance like there's no tomorrow - Paula Abdul

I noticed the approach of this milestone as well. It is indeed a wonderful thing

Wonderful topic, Old Bob! Yes and no, I try to view all people and their problems in a context of themselves. I think the experience of the range of human emotions is nearly universal to all people who aren't somehow limited in their ability to experience emotion. So of course we can all 'understand' sadness, happiness, fear, etc., but of course different people experience it in different ways and to a different extent. The cause or even just the thoughts and perceptions associated with the emotion in question are almost certainly going to vary among people. Gay people have more a reason to be depressed than straight people. They're often marginalized and scorned within society and often times they face huge religious and family obstacles. These experiences certainly make individuals more susceptible to depression! Unfortunately this often leads to a co-behaviours and coping mechanisms which make the situation worse. Many gays experience substance abuse problems because they're drinking or doing drugs to 'escape' from their problems, 'numb' the pain, or become more 'comfortable' interacting with others (among a whole lot of other possible reasons!). They also often develop other subtle, negative coping behaviours, like shutting out friends and family and people in general. Often times they become repressed and emotionally flat and refuse to deal with or think about their emotions. All these things make people more vulnerable to depression, and they would make any average individual who experiences them more vulnerable to depression regardless of his/her sexuality. I don't think it has anything to with being gay. All it has to do with is how yourself and others perceive your gayness, and how you deal with that perception. We could have this exact same argument if instead being left-handed, or over 6 feet tall, or having brown hair led to these same feelings and reactions in yourself and others. So no, I don't think there is anything inherently different in gay people which makes them susceptible to depression, but I think they way they are treated and in turn treat themselves can often lead to it. I think that definitely depends on the person and their unique circumstances. For example I would think that it's easier to help a depressed gay person who felt that his family didn't love him as a result, but who himself felt that it was fine to be gay than it would be to help a gay person who couldn't accept his own gayness. But even that might depend on the two people involved. I will say that I firmly believe that coming out to yourself as gay and accepting your sexuality as a perfectly good and equally acceptable way of being is the number one best and most important thing a gay person can do for their mental health. Even if the gay person never tells anyone else or never acts on their feelings I think think it's crucially important that they accept and feel good about them. I think the 2nd biggest and best step a gay person can do is to publicly come out. I know this is more controversial and I in no way mean to rush anyone. I think it's important for this to be done at the person's own pace and when they're ready. I also concede that occasionally there are legitimate reasons to delay or avoid coming out completely (however, personally I think the majority of closeted gay people who have accepted their sexuality tend to make up excuses for not coming out). Living your life as an openly gay person and not hiding this big 'secret' is tantamount to feeling good about yourself and being happy. It's important for people to meet others like themselves and to have their feelings validated. It's good to be open and honest about who you are. It's great to no longer live in fear that 'someone will find out'. Speaking for myself I was a hell of a lot more scared before I came out than afterward. If you are deeply closeted then someone finding out and outting you, or even just being mean to you while you lack the support of others, can be very devastating and really can completely shake up your life. (but I firmly believe that most people can recover from this pretty well) If you're already out and someone doesn't like, what are they really going to do? We don't live in a society where open violence is condoned. You might get yourself into trouble if go down dark alleys or other places 'where no one is watching', but for the most part you're probably perfectly physically safe wearing a big, pink shirt that says, "I'm gay!" in the middle of any Wal-Mart or shopping mall in the country. Sure there are gay bashings all the time, and no one is 'immune', but for the most part these occur in private, secluded places. People might say something, but who really cares? I certainly don't care what a random person on the street thinks about myself sexuality. Also, even here if you're just behaving normally and not being antagonistic, even if you are obviously and openly gay the rules of polite society pretty much dictate that no one will openly say anything to you. In most cases the worst you'll end up with is dirty looks, people muttering under their breath, or whispering. Personally speaking either this never happens to me or I legitimately never notice it. I'm assuming that occasionally it must happen to me, but yeah, I can't recall many instances in which I've even noticed, and I can only recall one instance in the last year in which someone openly said something. It was a car full of guys that rode past while I was walking down the sidewalk with a friend. They shouted, "fags" as they drove by. Well that's not a big deal! I was just pissed that I didn't get the chance to tell them off, and I'm willing to bet they wouldn't have said anything if they hadn't been in a group in a moving vehicle. Anyway, even if people never get to the point of living their lives as openly gay in general I think it's extremely good for them emotionally if they can do it in some aspects of their lives at least. For example the person who is out to a few close friends or family members has an easier time emotionally and more support than the person who is completely closeted. Just coming to this site and interacting with others over the internet is, in my opinion, good for the emotional health of gays. The important thing is that gay people learn how to integrate their sexuality in a healthy way into their lives. There is a lot to gay culture that is very affirming, healthy, and positive. It's important to find and focus on these things rather than the negative and destructive, or rather than eschewing the gay community completely. I'd also like to take this moment to publicly offer to help, or at least try to help, anyone out there who is looking for resources in their area. I'm fairly knowledgeable about such things already and through the various connections and other information I have at my disposal I may be able to find something for you. Anyway, now for my personal story and feelings about the topic. I would say that I have a very strong resistance to depression. I'm frequently in a very joyful, exuberant state of mind, and most often am simply content and feeling mildly happy/pleasant. I would say that a large portion of this is simply innate temperament; however, as I was growing up, and over the years, I've made an effort to focus on the positive and learned many useful skills and behaviours which now come naturally to me. It also helped that I was brought up consistently hearing the message that all people were equal, diversity was good, different didn't equal bad, etc. I similarly always placed a great deal more value and importance on autonomy and independence than I did on conformity and fitting in. As an interesting result I've always seemed to 'fit in' anyway, even without 'conforming'. Probably because I still wasn't antagonistic or dead-set on not conforming if I wanted to, and was still naturally out-going, and pleasant to people. As a result I think the underlying, "I don't really care" attitude came off mostly as appealing confidence. Consequently, I've always been pretty good at having a network of support which is, in my opinion, essential to good emotional health. I also have a lot of experience and skills dealing with emotions. I'm actually a very introspective person (which as I've often said I don't consider mutually exclusive to being out-going) and of course I got my degree in psychology, so I'm pretty comfortable with my emotions. I'm comfortable experiencing any given emotion, I can usually figure out where it's stemming from and evaluate rather or not this is a reasonable response, and either way if it's something negative that's gone on long enough (some degree of negative emotions is very healthy and functional) I can usually work out a course of action for alleviating it. I also personally find a lot of succor in helping and caring about others. A few days ago I was in a broody, withdrawn mood, but a friend of mine was upset about something. I found that in the course of listening to him and trying to help I not only quit focusing on my own state, but that my general cheerfulness returned as a result. Anyway, I've definitely experienced the full range of emotions both very happy and very sad, but I do feel confident in my ability to handle whatever life throws at me. Indeed, this past year especially I've had a lot of bad things happen to me, often together, but while I freely experience the sadness, anger, fear, stress, etc. that come along with them, I've been able to easily banish the negativity within a reasonable time period (usually no more than a few hours to a few days depending on the event) without slipping into a funk. As I said, wonderful topic, Old Bob! Take care all and have a great day! -Kevin

Well done, dude! As someone who has witnessed your growth and development over the last two years, albeit from the distance of the internet, I have to say I'm thoroughly impressed and proud Take care and may you continue to have a healthy and positive experience in all that you do. Kevin

That's what I was thinking. I really don't think I would care that much as the corpse, assuming it was indeed several decades later and I'd already had a respectful send-off, but I would be upset as a family member of the deceased. Well, actually I don't think that would be too big an issue. Germs and viruses need living, organic hosts to live and multiply. Granted they can remain in dormant states for a very long time, but I would think that after 80 years whatever germs the skull may have originally had would have long sense perished along with it. Also, I would assume that with proper and thorough cleaning there wouldn't be that much risk of disease. It would be exactly the same as coming into contact with any other type of animal bone, and people have been using bones, teeth, feathers, and hair for functional purposes for millennia. I think people's views and reactions to this is fascinating. Speaking for myself I want a very large, elaborate, fancy funeral when I die. This is contrary to how most people nowadays feel, but I see my funeral as the very final celebration of my life. It has huge symbolism for me and more than anything else I want it to be very nice and a 'big event'. I'm really quite disappointed that I won't be able to plan it. "Dear Tim, you are cordially invited to my funeral." I could have such fun with the jokes too, "please be on time; I wish to remain the only late person at this event." I feel the same way about my wedding; I want my to be a big event. Conversely, I feel like the time to celebrate my birthdays has passed. I want no recognition at all of the actual year and I'm perfectly content for only a few of my very closest family and friends to give me a small gift or just a 'happy birthday', and treat me extra nicely that day. The symbolism of birthdays is more negative in my opinion and I prefer them down played. If I could literally have everyone, including myself, forget my birthday I probably would. But anyway, yeah, weddings and funerals are big deals to me. After the funeral though, after all the big mourning and celebrating and reminiscing is over, I don't really care what happens to my body. After that point I want to be remembered in people's minds and hearts, or perhaps leave a legacy of some kind for the world to remember in some small way. Writing a story that lived on would be ideal, as would starting a foundation, being remembered as an activist and humanitarian, or anything like that. My actual body though...well I wouldn't really care if people were using my skull as a bong. I think I'd prefer to be used as one of those anatomy skeletons though. In general I'd probably prefer to be used for a functional purpose. Perhaps smoking weed out of me wouldn't be among my first choices, but something that will benefit people and make them happy would be nice. I probably will be an organ donor, and I'd be happy for them to use the rest of my body for science or something. As long as I still get my nice funeral and still 'look good' at the funeral then I don't care. I'd be fine with them just burying something symbolically after the funeral, or better yet planting a tree or something in my honour.

Here's an interesting question, I considered making a poll for it, but decided against it since, as we both pointed out, that's not really the point of LTMP in the first place, but who do you think is the 'top' and who is the 'bottom'? Or are they versatile? I normally tend to imagine the characters in a story versatile unless I hear otherwise. However, in this case, for some reason I really think Chase is the bottom. I'm sure you're not alone. Personally though I love talking about lesbian sex

"Sex is not the enemy" - Garbage

Pretty much. I have no trouble figuring out how to work new technologies and innovations once I try, but most of the time I'm extremely reluctant to do so in the first place. Completely contrary to how I conduct the rest of my life, when it comes to technology I prefer to hum along maintaining the status quo. I don't really like new electronics, gadgets, and programs. I only tend to check into them when I have to. Thanks I may take you up on the offer eventually, but as you said I try to stay up to date with most areas of GA in the first place anyway. As for other sites...well apart from email (and not as often as I should ) and youtube I don't really 'frequent' any other sites. Once a month I pay all my bills online, but I can't imagine the Feeds helping with that. I also frequently do research and occasionally 'surf' the net, but GA is the only thing I'm interested in rather or not anything has been 'updated'.

I think that's an excellent point! Welcome to the forums, by the way, Zilar

Well that certainly does sound nice and even appealing But this more accurately represents my personal feelings about it Whatever works I suppose

I love that song! "Erase" - Mika (I bought the cd the other night )

I was in that same boat a few months ago! Try checking out this blog entry for details. Especially check out the comments; I found Lucy's explanation very helpful!

Interesting! I hadn't heard of this at all (of course I don't read or watch the news), but I know exactly where that cometary is and I've frequently been to Kingwood and Humble. Of course I disapprove of their behaviour, but I wonder how I would feel if I were the corpse. Just out of curiosity how would you feel, Tim? I suspect I would lean toward rolling my eyes (not an easy task with eyes that have rotted over 80 years ago), and forgiving them.

Wow, that's awesome, dude! Thanks

You know, I think that's a very likely scenario myself! Instinct is almost certain to die a miserable death while The Scar and Dimitri live happily ever after! Why, I'd be stunned if it didn't turn out this way! Kevin

I hear they're even starting to come out with gay hairdressers nowadays! So here's a couple of questions regarding the sex aspect. Do you think of Brandon and Chase as having sex? Do you think of Helen and Barbra as having sex? The reason I ask is that because CJ frequently makes mention of Brandon and Chase's sex life, or otherwise eludes to it, even if he doesn't describe it graphically. On the other hand I can't remember any explicit references to Helen and Barbra's sex life, despite the fact that I'm assuming it exists. Has this impacted your perception of the characters and their relationship, especially their sex lives? One of the reasons that I really like sex scenes in a story is because it drives home the point that they are having sex, I being to think of them as a sexual, more complete couple, and even if at other points their sex life is merely eluded to and not explicitly described I still have something to visualize. I do like at least a few good sex scenes between serious couples in a story simply for this reason; to me it's an important part of character development with regards to the relationship. Of course the next best thing is to mention that they were in fact (or are about to be) having sex. At least then it's explicitly said and brought to mind that, yes, this is a romantic couple and they're doing all the 'romantic couple' things. It's thus more tangible than not mentioning it at all, but it's a little bit less 'real' than if it had been described. I'm not saying a story 'needs' sex to be a good romantic story. For example many romantic stories are primarily about the couples 'getting together' in the literal, we're-now-dating sense of the phrase. Of course these stories are okay without sex because the point of the story is for them to be shown 'falling in love' and overcoming obstacles to be together versus being in love and conducting their relationship on a day-to-day basis. LTMP works fine without sex because the story isn't about Brandon and Chase's relationship: that's just a side story. However, I do have a very strong preference for serious romantic stories about couples during their relationship to include at least a few sex scenes. It may sound 'pervy', but to be a good romantic story about a couple I would similarly expect to see a few scenes of the characters comforting each other, sharing joy, making compromises, arguing in a healthy way, etc. For such a story, to me, completely omitting sex scenes would be the equivalent of the writer simply glossing over an argument or bonding moment with narration instead of allowing the characters to flesh it out in dialogue and/or inside their heads. As I said, LTMP works well with this style of approach to romance because romance is not it's primary focus. We similarly haven't seen a huge number arguments, compromises, or 'relationship work'. In this case that's fine and the tech details are probably more relevant to the story because they're more in line with the story's focus. I'm working on a story which has some medical/technical aspects, but I don't feel bad about minimizing the amount of details so long as the story is realistic and believable. These details are simply a plot device and not at all the point of the story, so glossing over them to some extent feels acceptable. Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at with all of this is that the type of story should probably dictate the type of scenes expounded on within the story (go figure ). Take care and have an awesome day all! Kevin

Well it sounds like you might indeed benefit from the RSS feeds then!

That's certainly true of me, I can't imagine getting sexual with my friends, even the really really cute ones. On the other hand I have got one complicated sort of person in my life, but we didn't start as friends so I don't count him. HAHA, it's probably just weird but becoming friends with someone I've been sexual with is a much more comfortable notion than becoming sexual with someone I'm friends with. Of course in the case of the first scenario I imagine if the person didn't progress to boyfriend and did progress to good friend that we would likely stop being sexual at some point. As I've always said, I just can't wrap my head around 'friendcest.' When it comes to actual relationships I prefer to take it more slowly as well. Especially if the person is someone I know and care about in his own right. If instead it's just someone that I'm meeting for the explicit purpose of dating then I'm more open to the idea of things developing quickly, but when it comes to people I was friends with first I'm unwilling to be sexual for the sake of being sexual, and only 'slow and serious' about potential relationships.

Who else is still in the running besides the two Davids?

Happy Birthday, Patrick!! I hope the beginning of your 19th year surprises you and turns out to be absolutely delightful! Either way may this year bring you all the peace, joy, love, and happiness which you so definitely deserve! All the best, Kevin

Well that does bear promise for my dream of raising gay kids then ...on the other hand I'm not sure who my daughter will be emulating if she turns out to be a lesbian Anyway, we're definitely in agreement that parenting is the key aspect of a child's development.