"Subversive books" Do you read them?

[JamesSavik]

There are a number of books that some people label subversive.

 

Have you read any? Why?

 

Mien Kamph- Adolph Hitler

the Communist Manifesto- Karl Marx

Quotations from Chairman Mao (the Red Book)- Mao Zedong

the Turner Diaries- William Luther Pierce

The Doctrine of Fascism ("La dottrina del fascismo")- Benito Mussolini

Das Kapital- Karl Marx

[Tiger]

I have read bits and pieces of The Communist Manifesto. I was curious about it. However, I found it quite boring and repetitive, so I stopped reading it. There is one book on that list I would read, and that is The Turner Diaries. I am not a racist, but I do think it's good to understand the mindset of this internal enemy. They are a crazed group of people.

[hh5]

I have read bits and pieces of The Communist Manifesto. I was curious about it. However, I found it quite boring and repetitive, so I stopped reading it. There is one book on that list I would read, and that is The Turner Diaries. I am not a racist, but I do think it's good to understand the mindset of this internal enemy. They are a crazed group of people.

 

don't u find the repetition is basically - the brain washing of the public

[Tiger]

don't u find the repetition is basically - the brain washing of the public

Well, you'd have to read it. It's hard to explain. It's more about the structure and just going over similar points over and over again. At least, that was my impression. I just remember not wanting to read it anymore, because it was boring.

[Wynter]

I've been meaning to read Mein Kampf for a while now. Not because the ideas interest me but because it would a be an insight into the most hated man in history. I'm similarly curious about Marx and Chairman Mao.

 

On the subject of subversiveness, they're so old and out of date now that I doubt they would have much power anymore. They were relevant to a particular social context that no longer exists. There are probably many others which are more 'subversive'.

[JamesSavik]

Good points Wynter.

 

I read some of Marx's stuff to know the enemy which were the Soviets in the 70s and 80s. The same applies to the other stuff. Unfortunately about all that I learned about Communists is that they liked to babble incessantly about anything and everything except getting a job and making a living.

 

Mussolini was such a complete retard his writings are almost funny. He was far from being Nietzsche's super-man. He was more like a preening baboon.

[Tiger]

On the subject of subversiveness, they're so old and out of date now that I doubt they would have much power anymore. They were relevant to a particular social context that no longer exists. There are probably many others which are more 'subversive'.

More than you think... racists in the US and elsewhere still base their own manifestos, in part, on the likes of Mein Kampf and The Turner Diaries. Their mass appeal is no longer an issue, but they are still out there and being read by fanatics. The same (and much more) can probably be said of The Communist Manifesto. They are a minority in the western world today, but there are still Communists among us, and there are 4 Communist nations (China, Laos, Cuba, and Vietnam) and 1 unofficial one, North Korea. Elsewhere there are people in various nations who are firm believers in Communism, meaning that The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital still affect well over 1 billion people today.

[Former Member]

I've read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto for quite obvious reasons. (Which also happens to prove Tiger right)

 

Marx did tend to repeat himself a bit but the important stuff is hidden in the sub-text. Something you will only get if you look at it with an open mind...or at least a socialist outlook, even if you don't care for it.

 

 

[Nephylim]

I've read most of them and I found them all interesting in their own way. I actually found the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital very interesting. The problem we have, I think, in reading works such as this is that we know what has been done with them. But the way that people have taken communism and destroyed it in practice doesn not mean that there is no worth in it as an ideal. There are a lot of interesting and valuable ideas in there which I have found quite stimulating and infuential in my own world view. The fact is however that any attempt to adopt that kind of model in the real world is doomed to fail because people are people and they are generally incapable of being altruistic and there will always be those who will strive for dominance using any means possible and thene exploit their position... and there will always be those who let them.

[tomw]

Most of those books have started some important historical movements. As such, opinions about them are layered over with all sorts of irrelevant 'stuff', so it's good to go to the source to discover for oneself what the big deal is. You have to keep a skeptical mind about anything you read like these, and if you do, then there's not much harm from reading them. If nothing else reading these sorts of books helps develop a critical mind that isn't taken in easily.

[Lugh]

um can you say "required reading"?

 

not only that but position papers and the such... yeah some of them are boring but the ideas behind them are rather interesting if you cut through the blather.

[paya]

um can you say "required reading"?

 

not only that but position papers and the such... yeah some of them are boring but the ideas behind them are rather interesting if you cut through the blather.

 

Yeah, I had a course about communism and fascism at my school and I've read the interesting bits of Mein Kampf, Lenin's papers and some other books plus the manifestos are sort of required readings in the political ideologies course...

[paya]

 

I read some of Marx's stuff to know the enemy which were the Soviets in the 70s and 80s. The same applies to the other stuff. Unfortunately about all that I learned about Communists is that they liked to babble incessantly about anything and everything except getting a job and making a living.

 

 

This strategy remind sme why many gays know the Bible better than any average bigot!

[Wynter]

More than you think... racists in the US and elsewhere still base their own manifestos, in part, on the likes of Mein Kampf and The Turner Diaries. Their mass appeal is no longer an issue, but they are still out there and being read by fanatics. The same (and much more) can probably be said of The Communist Manifesto. They are a minority in the western world today, but there are still Communists among us, and there are 4 Communist nations (China, Laos, Cuba, and Vietnam) and 1 unofficial one, North Korea. Elsewhere there are people in various nations who are firm believers in Communism, meaning that The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital still affect well over 1 billion people today.

 

Yes, but that seems more like preaching to the converted. The vast majority of those people grew up in an environment where other factors influenced their ideologies before reading the book, if they actually READ the whole book instead of taking other people's word on it.

 

Those books are powerful, yes, but they're so ingrained now that they're not the new and 'subversive' texts they once were. They're useful in indoctrinating people but I don't think they'll attract many new members just on their own. It's the way they're delivered, in the context that they're delivered that keeps them relevant to those people.

 

This strategy remind sme why many gays know the Bible better than any average bigot! Maybe you should consider adding the Bible and maybe Koran to that list...

 

Indeed, religious texts are probably the most misused, misquoted and misunderstood books of all. Personally, I'm an atheist and regard religion in general as subversive, but I won't prattle on about that here.

 

On a less controversial note, have any of you encountered cults before? A friend of mine became involved in a new age pseudo-science group after watching videos and reading books produced by the group. Having watched these videos I can attest that they are VERY subversive. He has changed his entire world view because of the teachings of this group. Perhaps we should consider self help and get rich fast books as subversive too?

Edited February 22, 2010 by Wynter

[David McLeod]

I've read all but Mussolini. But then, I've read the Bible, the Qur'an (in translation, which isn't the same thing), Little Black Sambo, and Stranger in a Strange Land. Interesting list, though.

 

Ideas aren't dangerous; people are dangerous.

 

Those who do not read history aren't necessarily doomed to repeat it, but they're more like to fall prey to those who do read history. (This may be off topic, but I really couldn't find a better place to say it than in one of James' forums.)