Amy Outs Casey!

[PrivateTim]

In Camilo's story The Perks of Loving You one character, Amy, outs another, Casey and we really don't even know if Casey is or not..... but here is the question, not really related to the story, but in general.

 

Is it okay to out someone? Not the Congressman or preacher who is anti-gay and then tapping toes in men's restrooms, but just a regular person. I've had more friends who were outted by their "fag hags" then I care to remember. Sometimes it was inadvertent, other times they thought they were "helping".

 

I've been with friends at restaurants when they have maybe inadvertently outted a waiter or bus boy by asking a co-worker in the restaurant "is so-and-so gay?". Maybe the person is, but has no desire to be out at work for whatever reason. When I got on my friend for asking the question, his response was, 'he shouldn't be in the closet anyway if he is'. Okay... maybe, maybe not, but is it my friends decision to make for that person?

 

Should Amy announce to a room full of people, "Guys!" she shouted to get everyone

[Graeme]

My personal view is that a person's private life is their own, and it is up to them to decide what to tell to whom. Given the potential negativity associated with being gay, I think no one should have the right to out someone else. Now, if there was no negativity associated with it, that's different -- it would be like 'outing' someone's favourite flavour of ice cream (not really a big deal).

 

There's a potential exception to this view, and that's to do with public figures who perform hypocrisy when it comes to this subject. eg. the 'homophobic' politician or public figure who campaigns to prevent gays from being free from discrimination, etc. I'm still not comfortable with that, but I can see why it's done.

[Krista]

I don't think anyone should out anyone else. No one knows how that person really feels or the relationship the "closeted" person has with people that would eventually find out. It's simple to keep your mouth closed on the subject, there really isn't any excuse for it. Even if its blatantly obvious... it should always be in their terms...

[Trebs]

We had an unusual situation happen here in California last month. At a Stonewall Democratic Club meeting, one of the candidates was a legislator who was seeking re-election. His endorsement was pulled for debate (all of the other recommendations were then approved) and during the debate on this one person, a woman who knows him well, who is a long time Democratic Party activist and active in her teacher's union, got to the microphone and said "You have to endorse him - he's gay".

 

He is gay, and most of the members of the club knew it - but this was different in that it was publically spoken during a meeting (and subsequently reported in the news). But unlike some of the other known examples of "outing" - the woman doing it wasn't malicious, she wasn't trying to pry into his private life - she was just arguing and wondering why the club was even debating his endorsement instead of just automatically giving it to him and said what probably many in the room were thinking.

 

Of course, this happened a few weeks after the republican legislator was caught DWI, having left a gay bar with a man - and that was in the paper as well.

 

Do intent matter? Does exposing hypocrisy matter? And is it outing if someone thought everyone else already knew ("Oh - you'll never get anywhere with him - he's gay")?

[Mark Arbour]

We've had similar conversations here before, and in the end of all that discussion, I pretty much came to the conclusion that it wasn't "right" to out anyone UNLESS they were one of those bigoted hypocrites that we run into from time to time. A Larry Craig, who sucks dick in the bathroom and then rails against fags in the Senate. That kind of guy. I think it's OK to out them.

[Benji]

We've had similar conversations here before, and in the end of all that discussion, I pretty much came to the conclusion that it wasn't "right" to out anyone UNLESS they were one of those bigoted hypocrites that we run into from time to time. A Larry Craig, who sucks dick in the bathroom and then rails against fags in the Senate. That kind of guy. I think it's OK to out them.

 

............I have to disagree here, I don't think it is right to out anyone, even former Sen. Craig. Outting is a personal thing that should not be left to others. Would you want someone to publicly out you? I doubt it!

[Mark Arbour]

............I have to disagree here, I don't think it is right to out anyone, even former Sen. Craig. Outting is a personal thing that should not be left to others. Would you want someone to publicly out you? I doubt it!

 

No, I wouldn't. But then again, I'm not running around putting gay and lesbian people down and fighting AGAINST them. That's the big difference. If I was, if I was bashing the hell out of gay people in public and then writing gay/bi-themed stories here, I'd expect it. There is a difference.

[PrivateTim]

Oh and i was by the way outted on national television.

 

I am sitting at a local coffee shop in Toluca Lake CA next to NBC Studios and whatever their morning show was was doing a man in the street interview, something along the lines of "what do you get your wife when you need to make up" and one of the five men I am sitting with says "well we're all gay here so we don't have that problem" as the camera pans us.... I had relatives back east who had no idea i was gay and had no need to know calling my mother...... and then friends from high school and college.... people at work..... the worst part isn't that I tend to think of myself as bi, but most of my gay friends assume I am gay and I seldom correct them because it is worth the hassle of having them tell me how I feel.... no it is that that damn camera puts ten pounds on you!

[Mark Arbour]

............I have to disagree here, I don't think it is right to out anyone, even former Sen. Craig. Outting is a personal thing that should not be left to others. Would you want someone to publicly out you? I doubt it!

 

How come your post repeated?

[jon-jon]

Definately not the right thing to do. No one can know what your internal dialogue is or what your personal situation is vis a vis your family, friends or work situation. So putting something out there like your sexual preference without your knowledge/permission is the worse thing someone can do. It puts a whole new complication on an already complicated situation, especially if you are not out.

Coming out is something so personal, so intimate that you should have the right of total control of it.

Getting to the point in your life where someone finding out you are gay won't effect you is different for each of us. We deserve the respect of our friends and family to decide when that is.

Of course the question of hypocrisy of public figures raises a whole different question. And I think it should be treated as a different question. Taking a public stand, making a political point or promoting/supporting a law on the basis of hypocrisy is wrong and should be outed. But is it possible to "out" the hypocrisy without outing the person?

 

How come your post repeated?

 

Hey moderator! How come his post repeated?

[Mark M]

Ok well i'll admit i'm guilty for pretty much "outing" someone to my friends who already know about me. You see in my town people like to talk of who people have fooled around with and stuff, well telling my friends what i've done, immediatly it's WHO! i told them i wouldn't tell them, but they could guess to easily which sucked. So indirectly he's know as Bi to a few, Completly Gay (because they just hate him, not proof), and of course alot think he's Straight. My question is what do i do now? i'm thinking when i'm out "publicly" i'll inadvertantly out him. First i'm gona offically tell him i'm gay and that it has been getting around, second ima threaten he tells anyone i'll tell everyone about us (meaning i want to do it on my own terms, and i don't trust him).

 

So personaly i think it's not the persons place to out someone, i've had rumors flying about me since grade 5 that i was gay (only cuz i was a little boy who experiemented, and was seen) Kinda sucks. But whatever i delt with it, and had a very low self-esteme alot my whole life. I didn't start opening up to friends and shit untill my mom passed away. which was Grade 11 (three years ago) and now i have best friends that know, and think i'm a ton of fun because it's different.

 

 

Anyway That's my thoughts.

[Mark Arbour]

Definately not the right thing to do. No one can know what your internal dialogue is or what your personal situation is vis a vis your family, friends or work situation. So putting something out there like your sexual preference without your knowledge/permission is the worse thing someone can do. It puts a whole new complication on an already complicated situation, especially if you are not out.

Coming out is something so personal, so intimate that you should have the right of total control of it.

Getting to the point in your life where someone finding out you are gay won't effect you is different for each of us. We deserve the respect of our friends and family to decide when that is.

Of course the question of hypocrisy of public figures raises a whole different question. And I think it should be treated as a different question. Taking a public stand, making a political point or promoting/supporting a law on the basis of hypocrisy is wrong and should be outed. But is it possible to "out" the hypocrisy without outing the person?

 

 

 

Hey moderator! How come his post repeated?

 

 

Well stated!

[jon-jon]

Well stated!

 

(blush!) High praise from an incontrovertible source!

[Mark Arbour]

(blush!) High praise from an incontrovertible source!

 

Yeah, but let's see if Benji duplicates your post, or only his own.

[jon-jon]

Yeah, but let's see if Benji duplicates your post, or only his own.

 

Oh! So it was't a glitch! Benji, you repetitous silly!

[Benji]

How come your post repeated?

 

............ I have no clue why it did that! My PC went thru some glitches the other day!

[David McLeod]

We've had similar conversations here before, and in the end of all that discussion, I pretty much came to the conclusion that it wasn't "right" to out anyone UNLESS they were one of those bigoted hypocrites that we run into from time to time. A Larry Craig, who sucks dick in the bathroom and then rails against fags in the Senate. That kind of guy. I think it's OK to out them.

 

Perhaps not the most elegant answer, but the one that makes the most sense, intellectually and morally.