Poor Man's Son

[PrivateTim]

Tim, I still think when Brad and Robbie were deciding, they saw that the only private elementary school in Malibu was Our Lady of Malibu, and there was no way in hell Brad was going to send his kid to Catholic school. It didn't make sense to send some little kids out on long commutes just so they could attend private primary schools, and the public schools in Malibu were good. Considering that the Crampton/Schluter family has had a long-standing tradition of having their kids go to public school, it just made sense that Brad and Robbie continued it, especially considering the caliber of Malibu High.

 

And I think Brad in general doesn't have a favorable view of private schools, which I'm thinking got passed on to Will, re: his comments about Harvard-Westlake.

 

Will living with Claire would be hilarious. I think Will would have the picture of himself being able to do whatever he wants after school, and getting to sneak into John's bed every night to have sex and smoke pot. I think that the reality is going to be completely different. It'd be great if it turned out that Claire and Jack like to make their kids do chores, which I've heard some rich parents do with their kids to teach them disclipline.

 

You don't quite get Malibu. Because it is in the boondocks, people are used to drving 30-40 minutes to do anything, including grocery shop. Gelson's in Pacific Palisades is the nearest acceptable market and after that you hit Whole Foods or Bristol Farms in either the Santa Monica or the Valley (Westlake and Woodland Hills).

 

The Schluter-Hayes family don't live in a vacuum in Malibu and the families and kids their kids grew up with would mostly go to private schools because most just do not think about any other alternatives as viable. Remember in 2000 they would still have the Spielberg, Russell-Hawn, Reiner, Brosnan, etc ad nauseum as neighbors and friends, and those are just the names you know, not the captains of industry that live in the Colony too.

 

I've never seen any antipathy from Brad towards private schools, he went where, Yale was it? He has lived in a pretty exclusive bubble since leaving high school and that shapes the way you think. I've never seen him be the militant egalitarian and given the recent attempts on his life and his raised profile I just don't see public school in either So Cal or No Cal as a viable option.

[PrivateTim]

Nice new chapter but two, maybe three thoughts.

 

One, I don't think JP would undermine Brad that directly. I would think he would tell Will he was always welcome as long as his parents were okay with it, or sentiments to that extent.

 

Two, the irony of Will talking about maturity when he is behaving very immaturely, figuratively holding his breath and stomping his feet reminds me of Veruca Salt.

 

Three, none of the parents are dumb and even as progressive as they are, I can't imagine them all being fine with an 8th grader and 7th grader having a sexual relationship.

 

That is all.

[rjo]

I agree I don't see Zack in Paris. I hope Zack does not end up like Billy (Jeff and Isidore's son). To many dead bodies around. As for Claire and Will, I think they would be good for each other. Maybe without Will, Tiffany and Jeanine can get back together. I also like the idea of Will finding time to spend with JP and Stef. Will already was a relationship with Wade. I also hope none of the guys get wiped out in 9 11. This family has lost too many over the years (Andre, Jeff, Billy, Billy ( Jeff's son), Mouse, Sam, Roger, Greg, Tonto, Marie Jack. Barry and Steve ) That is more than most families could endure. They are a strong bunch, but any more maybe too much.

[Mark Arbour]

Nice new chapter but two, maybe three thoughts.

 

One, I don't think JP would undermine Brad that directly. I would think he would tell Will he was always welcome as long as his parents were okay with it, or sentiments to that extent.

 

Two, the irony of Will talking about maturity when he is behaving very immaturely, figuratively holding his breath and stomping his feet reminds me of Veruca Salt.

 

Three, none of the parents are dumb and even as progressive as they are, I can't imagine them all being fine with an 8th grader and 7th grader having a sexual relationship.

 

That is all.

 

First of all, JP wouldn't be human if he wasn't sitting back and internally laughing his ass off at that whole situation. I think he would do that, not to undermine Brad, but because that's been his policy all along. I think he realizes (as Stef did in BeRad) that if you give conflicted teens a safe place to land and think things through, they'll probably work it out the way you want them to in the end. Besides, maintaining an open door like that is easy: there are other ways to close it if you have to.

 

Second, what a great movie (Willy Wonka) and a great visual.

 

Third, I don't know if they're "fine" with it, but I think they're realistic enough to know there's not much they can do to prevent it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

 

I agree I don't see Zack in Paris. I hope Zack does not end up like Billy (Jeff and Isidore's son). To many dead bodies around. As for Claire and Will, I think they would be good for each other. Maybe without Will, Tiffany and Jeanine can get back together. I also like the idea of Will finding time to spend with JP and Stef. Will already was a relationship with Wade. I also hope none of the guys get wiped out in 9 11. This family has lost too many over the years (Andre, Jeff, Billy, Billy ( Jeff's son), Mouse, Sam, Roger, Greg, Tonto, Marie Jack. Barry and Steve ) That is more than most families could endure. They are a strong bunch, but any more maybe too much.

 

I don't see Zach in Paris either, and I don't see him as another "Billy." To expand, if he were another "Billy," I would get hate mail about how all of my characters were the same, etc., etc. Besides, if you watch Zach, he's a lot more insidious than Billy was.

[methodwriter85]

I also hope none of the guys get wiped out in 9 11. This family has lost too many over the years (Andre, Jeff, Billy, Billy ( Jeff's son), Mouse, Sam, Roger, Greg, Tonto, Marie Jack. Barry and Steve ) That is more than most families could endure. They are a strong bunch, but any more maybe too much.

 

That's a relatively low body count, especially considering that we're talking about a span from 1944 to 2000, which include four major wars that the United States fought in. Marie died of a disease but at an advanced age- she was able to fully live her life out. Same goes for Tonto- Tonto died what I'm assuming was a peaceful death, and definitely not before her time.

 

Of course, from our perspective, these deaths all occured over a span of two and a half years, when Mark started writing the story. But from theirs, these deaths were spread out over 56 years. Which is pretty normal, and not something out of the ordinary for any one large family.

 

I'm not saying these guys need to be wiped out by 9/11, but it IS going to affect them. Especially considering that Wade's from Washington, D.C., and Mark's been crafting ties between New York City and the family.

 

Tim, I really would really like to see you try to convince Adam Phillips that he's wrong on something. That would be fun. You make your points, and it's whatever. I wasn't applying my point to high school- I was applying it to the elementary school level, and why Robbie and Brad would have just gone with the flow and enrolled the kids at the local public schools, and kept them there because it worked out fine for Darius.

 

Blue? Can you help me here? LOL.

 

As to the other stuff...I wanna see how Will gets into skateboarding. We need circa 2000 skateboader punks, damn it!

 

I don't see Zach in Paris either, and I don't see him as another "Billy." To expand, if he were another "Billy," I would get hate mail about how all of my characters were the same, etc., etc. Besides, if you watch Zach, he's a lot more insidious than Billy was.

I have some mixed thoughts about this. On one hand, it creates drama among a generation that's much less prone to drama than the Be Rad crew. On the other hand, if Zach is just a one-note asshole who uses people with no redeemable qualities, it's really not that compelling. It just makes the guys look like idiots for even interacting with him.

Edited April 22, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

 

 

I have some mixed thoughts about this. On one hand, it creates drama among a generation that's much less prone to drama than the Be Rad crew. On the other hand, if Zach is just a one-note asshole who uses people with no redeemable qualities, it's really not that compelling. It just makes the guys look like idiots for even interacting with him.

 

You're just being bitchy since I'm not sending Zach to Paris. You're such a JJ.

[methodwriter85]

What are you talking about? I'm just about the sweetest, nicest guy you've ever met. Absolutely no diva 'tude from me at all, no siree.

[rjo]

I just don't want Zack died. It would hurt Clara and Wally. They are good people. If Alexandra gets it on 9 11 so be it. Even her son David no problem. As for 9 11, it is one of those days I will never forget. It shook the whole country. It was the same for the Kennedy assassination. So many people died that day, in which America responded with anger and rage and got us into two wars which we could have avoided.I have always believe war should be the last resort. Not the first response.

Edited April 22, 2011 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

I think it'd be pretty unlikely for Zach to get involved with 9/11. The most likely is Wade Danfield's family, and John Carrullo considering that he's from Bayonne, which wasn't too far away from the city. They seem the most likely to lose people they know.

 

It's strange to be at this point in the story. They're not that far away from us, but yet they are because it's still pre-9/11. 9/11 is going to change sooo much about this country; and mostly for the worst. People were still riding that ride of late 90's optimism, and it just seemed like things were going to keep getting better. We had a surplus budget, a strong economy...god.

 

The CAP family has no clue what's about to hit them. The 2000's were just one insane decade.

Edited April 22, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Tim, I really would really like to see you try to convince Adam Phillips that he's wrong on something. That would be fun. You make your points, and it's whatever. I wasn't applying my point to high school- I was applying it to the elementary school level, and why Robbie and Brad would have just gone with the flow and enrolled the kids at the local public schools, and kept them there because it worked out fine for Darius.

As to the other stuff...I wanna see how Will gets into skateboarding. We need circa 2000 skateboader punks, damn it!

 

No, I am saying you really don't get Malibu, Pacific Palisades, Bel Air, Beverly Hills, etc. Schools like The Brentwood School and Crossroads are K-12 schools, or even PK-12 and families like the Schwarznegger's don't even blink at sending their kids to The Brentwood School to the tune of $23,000 for Kindergarten (through 6th) and then $27,000 for 7-12.

 

Spending $100,000 a year to send your kids to private school for 13 years is just what you do. It isn't just the security, it is the insecurity..... of the parents. Sending your kids to private school is like buying the 12,000 square foot house or the Mercedes (or Range Rover or Ferrari), chartering jets (or buying them). It is all part of the status game. When all the moms at the Mommy and Me class are talking about those schools (or the Montessori schools) you don't send your kids to the school where your maids or gardners kids might go.

 

Didn't you read the Great Gatsby? "The rich are different from you and me." If it is true for the rich it is doubly true for the famous and quadrupoly true for the rich, famous and Hollywood.

 

Now as to skating, it is a mixed bag in CA especially along the coast. Bear in mind it has been around the CA coast for 60-70 years now. A lot of guys skate when they are younger because it is a good way to get around, but the perception of a lot a surfers is that skaters are just wanna be surfers and there is tension between the groups. Surfers really scoff at the skater punks and especially at skater punks from around the country and world. Everyone thinks they just want to be CA surfers and live the lifestyle that is synonymous with Malibu and has been in the public consciousness since Gidget was first introduced to the world in 1957 and Sandra Dee brought it to the big screen and Sally Fields the small screen (and on a side note, despite the fact that Sally went to all public schools including Birmingham High with big hitters Michael Milken & Michael Ovitz, her son, Sam Greisman, went to the Brentwood School).

[methodwriter85]

Look, you got your point across. Duly accepted. Let's move on at this point. Just remember that in soap opera conventions, they usually do send rich kids to public school because it allows for them to interact with kids from another socioeconomic class. Maybe it's not the most probable thing, but it's not an impossibility, considering the caliber of the schools.

 

As for the insecurity bit, Robbie and Brad don't seem like they were particularly pushy about status, or about making sure their kids were going to go Ivy League. And considering they both went public, I don't think they would have been turned off by the idea of their kids going to public school. And given what we know about the general Crampton/Schluter m.o., the idea of their kids going to school with the gardener's son would NEVER bother them. That's been the Hallmark of the Crampton/Schluter family- with the exception of Bitty and Nick, none of these people have ever been status-symbol obsessed snobs. They're comfortable interacting with people of different classes- that's been in the story since Day 1.

 

And weren't you also the one who told me that Malibu High doesn't have a poor class going there? You just nullified that part of the argument by saying that.

 

But I do agree there's no way Claire and Jack would send their kids to public. I also think they'd be pretty pushy about wanting their kids to go to Ivy League and have a load of AP Classes, a 4.0, and an impressive college application resume filled with leadership skills and volunteer work.

 

As for the skater stuff, Mark said that Will was a likely skater boy, so I'm going with that. I'd just like for them to be in there because that whole look and act was a huge part of the early '00s aesthetic. One of the things Mark likes to do is capture not just the regional culture of the time, but also the national culture- and in 2000, skater punks were a huge part of the national culture.

 

Now let's stop with all this arguing. Come over here and give me a big kiss, you sexy older man.

Edited April 22, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

No, I am saying you really don't get Malibu, Pacific Palisades, Bel Air, Beverly Hills, etc. Schools like The Brentwood School and Crossroads are K-12 schools, or even PK-12 and families like the Schwarznegger's don't even blink at sending their kids to The Brentwood School to the tune of $23,000 for Kindergarten (through 6th) and then $27,000 for 7-12.

 

Spending $100,000 a year to send your kids to private school for 13 years is just what you do. It isn't just the security, it is the insecurity..... of the parents. Sending your kids to private school is like buying the 12,000 square foot house or the Mercedes (or Range Rover or Ferrari), chartering jets (or buying them). It is all part of the status game. When all the moms at the Mommy and Me class are talking about those schools (or the Montessori schools) you don't send your kids to the school where your maids or gardners kids might go.

 

Didn't you read the Great Gatsby? "The rich are different from you and me." If it is true for the rich it is doubly true for the famous and quadrupoly true for the rich, famous and Hollywood.

 

Now as to skating, it is a mixed bag in CA especially along the coast. Bear in mind it has been around the CA coast for 60-70 years now. A lot of guys skate when they are younger because it is a good way to get around, but the perception of a lot a surfers is that skaters are just wanna be surfers and there is tension between the groups. Surfers really scoff at the skater punks and especially at skater punks from around the country and world. Everyone thinks they just want to be CA surfers and live the lifestyle that is synonymous with Malibu and has been in the public consciousness since Gidget was first introduced to the world in 1957 and Sandra Dee brought it to the big screen and Sally Fields the small screen (and on a side note, despite the fact that Sally went to all public schools including Birmingham High with big hitters Michael Milken & Michael Ovitz, her son, Sam Greisman, went to the Brentwood School).

 

I think part of the problem is that rich people in SoCal are different than rich people in other places, something you lay out clearly here. JP is basically a CA transplant, and carries his Ohio (Midwest) breeding with him. He's also ensconced up in Northern California, which is so much different than the southern part of the state. But if we take him as a model, he's got that old money breeding (like Wade) where status really doesn't matter to them. Why? Status, to them, is a birthright, and they have no need to earn it, or prove anything. My personal experience with SoCal rich people is that even after a couple of generations, they still act pretty nouveau riche. Robbie and Brad must be a bit of an enigma in Malibu, in that they've largely embraced the culture, but they have a different social background than most of their contemporaries.

 

I also think that the issue of public vs. private schools changed a lot over the 20 years we're talking about (1980 vs. 2000). If Isidore was at a Junior League brunch in 1980 and some woman was "bragging" about sending her daughter to a private school, she'd probably look at the woman with disdainful amusement, as if that would possibly make any difference in social status between Isidore's daughter and the lady's daughter. It just simply didn't matter. Besides, in 1980, motivation to go to private school was primarily driven by religion. In 2000, the issue isn't about status or religion, it's about getting the best possible education for your child. So I can see Claire at a similar Junior League brunch in 2000, asking the lady questions about her daughter's school and their academic creds, because that would be most important to her.

 

Look, you got your point across. Duly accepted. Let's move on at this point. Just remember that in soap opera conventions, they usually do send rich kids to public school because it allows for them to interact with kids from another socioeconomic class. Maybe it's not the most probable thing, but it's not an impossibility, considering the caliber of the schools.

 

As for the insecurity bit, Robbie and Brad don't seem like they were particularly pushy about status, or about making sure their kids were going to go Ivy League. And considering they both went public, I don't think they would have been turned off by the idea of their kids going to public school. And given what we know about the general Crampton/Schluter m.o., the idea of their kids going to school with the gardener's son would NEVER bother them. That's been the Hallmark of the Crampton/Schluter family- with the exception of Bitty and Nick, none of these people have ever been status-symbol obsessed snobs. They're comfortable interacting with people of different classes- that's been in the story since Day 1.

 

And weren't you also the one who told me that Malibu High doesn't have a poor class going there? You just nullified that part of the argument by saying that.

 

But I do agree there's no way Claire and Jack would send their kids to public. I also think they'd be pretty pushy about wanting their kids to go to Ivy League and have a load of AP Classes, a 4.0, and an impressive college application resume filled with leadership skills and volunteer work.

 

As for the skater stuff, Mark said that Will was a likely skater boy, so I'm going with that. I'd just like for them to be in there because that whole look and act was a huge part of the early '00s aesthetic. One of the things Mark likes to do is capture not just the regional culture of the time, but also the national culture- and in 2000, skater punks were a huge part of the national culture.

 

Now let's stop with all this arguing. Come over here and give me a big kiss, you sexy older man.

 

Jeremy,

 

For Tim, arguing is foreplay.

[Matthew k]

And weren't you also the one who told me that Malibu High doesn't have a poor class going there? You just nullified that part of the argument by saying that.

 

Well I can tell you've never had to pay the staff

 

I meant to comment on this earlier when the discussion was going on about help & staff.

 

No one I knows pays the domestic help (maid) less than $15 an when they are full time or $100 for 3 hours when they come in twice a week. The gardener gets even more, more $25 an hour. And don't even ask what the chef gets (you can pay them less if you call them "the cook"). The same is true for the nanny, she is probably at $25 an hour and the chauffeur is $35 an hour if he isn't armed, at least $50 if he is. Now this all may be just in southern Cal in the wealthy areas, but a husband and wife (maid and gardener) could be pulling $70k a year easily. Certainly enough for a decent apartment, especially if you are splitting with another couple or family (as is common) or maybe a mobile home in Paradise Cove (where Jim Rockford used to live).

 

PS. Mark, really liked the last chapter

[methodwriter85]

Why? Status, to them, is a birthright, and they have no need to earn it, or prove anything. My personal experience with SoCal rich people is that even after a couple of generations, they still act pretty nouveau riche. Robbie and Brad must be a bit of an enigma in Malibu, in that they've largely embraced the culture, but they have a different social background than most of their contemporaries.

 

I also think that the issue of public vs. private schools changed a lot over the 20 years we're talking about (1980 vs. 2000). If Isidore was at a Junior League brunch in 1980 and some woman was "bragging" about sending her daughter to a private school, she'd probably look at the woman with disdainful amusement, as if that would possibly make any difference in social status between Isidore's daughter and the lady's daughter. It just simply didn't matter. Besides, in 1980, motivation to go to private school was primarily driven by religion. In 2000, the issue isn't about status or religion, it's about getting the best possible education for your child. So I can see Claire at a similar Junior League brunch in 2000, asking the lady questions about her daughter's school and their academic creds, because that would be most important to her.

Thank you for that. I was wanting to rip my hair out at some point. I think Tim had a great point about the security deal, but when he brought up how the family wouldn't want their kids going to school with some gardener's son, that's where things went off-track.

 

The Cramptons/Schluters have NEVER been written as being the kind of people who would care about that sort of thing. I mean, Brad is for all intents and purposes married to a guy who's dad was a factory foreman. Isidore is from a poor French village. Maman didn't come from a rich background, either.

 

And Brad's been in a rich bubble since he graduated from high school? Huh? Middle-Class Max was his love interest in college. He struck up a friendship with a defnitely non-rich minister just recently. And he has welcomed poor homeless kids into his home more than once.

 

Maybe they're not staunch about it, but there's been a long running egalitarian streak running through the family since Day 1. That's always been a theme of the story- that these rich elites are able to open up their hearts(and quite often more than that) to the less-fortunate people. They're disdainful of small-minded people, not people with small banking accounts.

 

As for the private vs. public thing, I think you're right about Claire. I also think that Brad and Robbie liked what they saw about the Malibu public system, and didn't see a problem in putting their kids there. I could especially see Malibu High being attractive, because the Middle School is right there, and I could see the idea of their kids going to class with the same kids for seven years was pretty attractive. The private school deal on the East Coast is more about the fact that the school districts are often pretty bad. That doesn't seem to apply to the Malibu public school system. Or the Gunn High system. Ella's going there next year, right? She'll keep Will company.

 

The other thing to think about is that JP's family was very much about doing what they could to improve education for all in Claremont- remember how Tonto basically got them to build a new high school so she could integrate the area? It would make sense that if a family was striving so hard for public education in the area, they'd send their kids to public school to make a point about how the education can be just as good.

 

It's funny how Blue totally convinced me on the public thing when I was totally calling for them to go to a science and math charter school or something. I think someone in Gen 4 needs to turn out to be a math genius or something- we're kinda losing the "Academic" in the CAP title here. LOL.

 

 

Jeremy,

 

For Tim, arguing is foreplay.

 

He's a laywer, isn't he?

 

In any event, you guys know me and how much I hate arguing with people, so let's just bust out a joint and put on some Sublime tunes.

 

 

I used a lot of Sublime tunes for scoring "Bloodlines". Matt and Darius strike me as guys who'd be big fans of them. Will probably likes them, too. He probaly snuck some of Darius's Sublime cd's, like I did with my sister's.

Edited April 22, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

 

Isidore is from a poor French village. Maman didn't come from a rich background, either.

 

 

 

Both of those ladies came from noble families without a lot of money. That usually means that they have lots of pride to make up for their lack of cash. In my personal experience, no one is more arrogant or status conscious than a person who has blue blood and no bank account. My opinion is that the gracious chatelaines that you see here are largely that way because they ended up with a bunch of money, but that would be pretty crass to actually say in public. Oops.

[methodwriter85]

Really? Huh, it has been a long time since I read CAP. Oh, well.

 

In any event, I really think we should call an end to this debate about schools. We're going in circles at this point. Brad and Robbie sending their kids to public school doesn't seem like a detail that's worth getting that worked up about. It reminded me of the Veronica Mars forum at TWOP, where people were incredulous that the uber-rich '09ers were going to public high school in suburban San Diego. A lot of people gave out the same kind of arguments that Blue did that because of the caliber of the public schools, it wasn't as much of a given that rich kids would go private like it would be on the East Coast.

 

Let's change the subject, okay? Like about how it's July 2000, which means that George W. Bush is going to get selected as the Republican presidential nominee at the end of the month. JP and Brad are going to despise him. Claire will support him, but ultimately turn against him. Ace and Senator Danfield will remain staunch supporters to the very bitter end. And Alexandra will say she supports him, but only for P.R. purposes.

 

It's kinda sad to think that we're going to see these people go from having Bill Clinton, who was a wonderful president, to a decade of misery with W.

 

For the most part, 2000 was a quiet year. It seems like the main things about 2000 were the dot-com crash, which Mark covered, and the Florida election recount, which Mark is likely to cover since I'm assuming Gathan will become friends with poor Democratic-leaning Wade.Wade's going to be very angry about the Al Gore thing. Man.

Edited April 22, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Thank you for that. I was wanting to rip my hair out at some point. I think Tim had a great point about the security deal, but when he brought up how the family wouldn't want their kids going to school with some gardener's son, that's where things went off-track.

 

Ah, I see your confusion. When I talked about not sending kids to school with the "maid and gardener's kids", that was not about Brad, Robbie and Mom, but the general attitude of the So Cal nouveau riche that Mark was talking about. The attitude is something very difficult to understand unless you have seen it in action. He has obviously been exposed to it first hand.

[B1ue]

Now as to skating, it is a mixed bag in CA especially along the coast. Bear in mind it has been around the CA coast for 60-70 years now. A lot of guys skate when they are younger because it is a good way to get around, but the perception of a lot a surfers is that skaters are just wanna be surfers and there is tension between the groups. Surfers really scoff at the skater punks and especially at skater punks from around the country and world. Everyone thinks they just want to be CA surfers and live the lifestyle that is synonymous with Malibu and has been in the public consciousness since Gidget was first introduced to the world in 1957 and Sandra Dee brought it to the big screen and Sally Fields the small screen (and on a side note, despite the fact that Sally went to all public schools including Birmingham High with big hitters Michael Milken & Michael Ovitz, her son, Sam Greisman, went to the Brentwood School).

 

One point, every single surfer I knew in high school and college also skateboarded. And, as I've said before, I went to UCSB, so that's a lot of surfers. Admittedly, the reverse was not true, but both also snowboarded when I'd go with them, the silly fools. I wasn't really part of either group, so I can't say for certain if there was an intense rivalry between them, but there seemed to be an awful lot of skateboards to account for.

[methodwriter85]

The same was true on the East Coast, too. It would feel weird for these kids not to know at least some skaterboarders- they were that huge across the board at this time. Tony Hawk was really ascendant at this time- I wouldn't be surprised if Will was a huge fan. It would make sense that if Will goes to Gunn and can't surf, he'll pick up skateboarding instead.

 

As for you, Tim, I get that Brad would be exposed to the attitude- but he wouldn't adopt it. Considering that Brad was an openly gay man committed to a partner as a 24-year old in 1986, when people were scared of anyone gay because AIDS was still the gay disease, I don't think Brad cares that much about what the social mores are. And then there's what Mark said about JP coming from the mid-West blue blood mindset....I'm sure that had way more influence on Brad than what his contemporaries were doing.

 

Edited to say I realize now you were talking about Mark being exposed to the attitiude, not Brad. Although it's fair to say that Brad would have been too.

 

Mark, just how DID an upper-middle-class guy like you get exposed so much to rich people?

Edited April 22, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Hermetically Sealed]

Hmm, so once again the thirteen year old kid wears the pants in the family. Can't see myself ever liking Will and his over developed sense of entitlement.

 

Definitely see Zach being trouble later on. Sad to see Gathan getting so much crap for his good fortune, but it's to be expected considering. Hopefully his plans to get to Stanford don't get side railed somehow.

[Mark Arbour]

Hmm, so once again the thirteen year old kid wears the pants in the family. Can't see myself ever liking Will and his over developed sense of entitlement.

 

Definitely see Zach being trouble later on. Sad to see Gathan getting so much crap for his good fortune, but it's to be expected considering. Hopefully his plans to get to Stanford don't get side railed somehow.

 

My experience is that most 14 year olds think the world is centered around them.

[Hermetically Sealed]

True, but in this case, it seems very much that his parents are all supporting his opinion. He needs a wake up call soon, or this constant giving him his way all the time is going to create a new Brian.

[methodwriter85]

Mark, can I tell you how much I loved that John hasn't committed himself to being gay, or putting any label on what he feels other than the fact that he's in love with Will? That's awesome. I really loved that. It becomes more common- to be "flexible" as the decade goes on, and it makes perfect sense that someone raised within the Crampton/Schluter circle wouldn't get caught up on sexual labels. I'm now thinking you might be building a good future protagonist in John as well. (The 2000's has enough material for at least four more stories, I think.) It's in stark contrast to Brad's generation, and it's even a constrast to Matt Carrswold and his "born in the late '70's/early '80s contemporaries.

 

The "likes" and the "dudes" were used perfectly. Good job with the dialogue, again. You're really doing a good job of distinguishing how different this generation speaks when you compare it to Brad and his contemporaries. You just need to work in "chill", "beast" and "that's gay" at some point. You've already gotten in "like a champ". Another common phrase I remember was "Are you on crack?" That was what you'd say if you had an incredulous reaction to something a friend did or said.

 

The truck convo was funny since we know it's pretty much inevitable that Stefan is buying Gathan a car for his 18th birthday. If he bought Alejandro and Cory BMW's for their 16th birthdays, I would imagine he'd buy the guy who saved his surrogate son's life like a 50k Lexus Hummer or something like that.

 

Anyway, Mark, this was really good- I liked how you got into the character dynamic and relationships in this chapter. And I also liked that you've touched on how parents play favorites with kids, re: Will talking about how his mom lets JJ do whatever you want.

 

Finally, I liked that you have Gathan hooking up with a girl.It seemed like his hetero side had been lying dormant for awhile. And I like that she's a Hendrickson, and inherited the Blonde Beauty Hendrickson looks.

Edited April 26, 2011 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

Another awesome chapter! Honestly, I don't understand how Mark can come up with one after another. This chapter, however, is even better. Over the last two books we have seen Will grow as a person. His personality has come out. Will is a awesome character. A number of readers have thought of Will as spoiled and bratty kid. I however, looked at him different. Will believes in himself, no lack of confidence here. For almost 14, he is a person of his word. Not too many 14 year olds are that strong. But what impresses me the most is two things. He forgave John. Gathan urged him to do that but still a lot of 14 yos wouldn't. I know of a lot of adults who have great difficult forgiving any one who has hurt even just a little. Then he does something even better he helps his mother to see how she can not only reconcial with him but also with her partner. I think that is pretty good for just a kid of 14. I also believe he was the only person that could do both those things. I honestly, don't see Brad do that even at 18 or even 22. Even JP had problems forgiving his mother and father then he was 26. This kid is pretty impressive. He may not always get it right but he can adapt.

 

Another impressive young man, Gathan has his heart in the right place. Yes, he has a problem with his temper but look at Brad at Gathan's age. Gathan seems like he is always thinking of others either it is his sister or his friends. Look how he helped Will or Harry and Ed to name a few. However, one person he can't help is Zack. Gathan needs to get out of that town. Him and Zack are poison. I believe Gathan will be dragged down by Zack. Living in that small house is not good for either of them. Gathan told Stef that the sexual parts of his partners didn't matter . It was more important that he liked them. I think that reflects how things have changed other the years. John said he didn't know if he was gay only that he loved Will. That also reminds me of the relationship of Matt and Wade.

 

l would agree that John would be a great narrator for another story down the road.

Edited April 26, 2011 by rjo

[Mark Arbour]

I think something else to consider is that Will's childhood has been shaped by power struggles between his parents.

 

“Yes, you should have,” she snapped at Dad. “But that’s nothing new.” I didn’t want her to get too mad at him, because she’d just take it out on me anyway, so I jumped back into the fray. “So how did I defy you?”