Schmaltz, saccharine, sickening

[One Cheap Suit]

That might be the Nifty formula, but not what I have read in the works of Dom Luka, Mark Arbour, Adam Phillips and what limited dkstories I've read. I've also read some works of the newer younger authors and they may not have the sophistication of the people I've noted, but there have been some fine works.

 

No question about it. There is a reason to read the fiction here/awesomedude/crvboy/iomfats/etc rather than on Nifty. Some of the writers who are now here started on Nifty - it seems to be an incubator of sorts. Some of those writers fell into some of the worst tropes ever in their early days, and they know it - which is why that work is quietly ensconced over at nifty, and is not posted here.

[clumber]

First things first, apologies for the length of this post. A lot of people said things I wanted to reply to.

 

 

Anyway, getting to the point:

 

I have noticed that there is a strong tendency towards this sort of story in a lot of gay fiction. Sometimes it seems to get to the point where 'gay fiction' is pretty much limited to 'gay highschool romance'. College if you're feeling rebellious.

 

It was actually the heavy predictability of a lot of stories which put me off reading a lot of gay fiction. It quickly gets to the point where right from the off the only question you have is whether the main character or his boyfriend will be the one to get beaten up.

 

 

 

And gentle breaking in of a partners anus with the apparently requisite standard of three fingers is almost obligatory.

Otherwise known as One Finger, Two Finger, Three Finger, Cock!

 

 

 

 

I think all genres have their stereotypes. These are part of what defines the genre. Realism isn't something typically found in the online romance genre (straight or gay). If you've ever read Harlequin books or even just the back page summary, you'll know that this debate, realism vs. romance, has been around since this genre began.

 

While it is true that all genres have their stereotypes, these particular stereotypes and cliches are often caused by things such as badly developed characters. They aren't due to the genre, they are due to bad writing.

 

 

 

 

I try to make the sex as realistic as possible and run it by at least one accomodating 'gay guy' author to make sure it's not totally off since I'm a woman and hampered at least a little with some of the details of sex with 2 men.

 

I have to say, I've seen a lot of gay sex scenes written by women who haven't run it past a gay friend which have been perfectly good, and often better, than a lot of typical gay sex scenes written by men.

 

 

 

Nah, I disagree there are some high school stories out there that depict high school the way it kind of was.... The Secret Life Of Billy Chase its very realistic.

 

Odd, because I found Billy Chase to be more of a fantasy of how high school could be rather than any sort of realistic depiction.

 

 

 

 

If it is a good story, it is a good story. That can be any genre.

 

But often the problem is that these stories are bad stories, the reason being that you can pretty accurately guess the entire plot from the first chapter. It isn't that the genre is heavily cliched, it's that these cliches are far too common within the genre.

 

 

 

 

I totally agree with this. If I want some real life depressing moments, I can always read the local online newspaper.

 

So even though some gay fiction has its ups and downs, at the end of the day, it's still.............................fiction.

 

However, why should fiction be limited to happy stories? Claiming that it has to be happy because it's fiction is basically saying that you can only gain pleasure from reading about perfect people living perfect lives - sometimes a truly depressing story can be interesting, entertaining or cathartic.

 

 

 

 

We do have to admit there is a formula at work, eh?

 

- Kid wakes up to an alarm clock or a mom yelling at him to get up for school

- Formulaic, unnecessary description of kid's physical attributes, leading to a shower/wank scene

- Kid goes to school

- Kid falls in love with quarterback whose been eying him since the beginning of the year, kid and QB/boyfriend hook up in a hot sex scene or six

- Somebody walks in on them doing the deed OR

- Kid gets outed by former best friend with homophobia issues

- Kid gets beat up by football team pissed off by QB's newly discovered gay tendencies

--OR kicked out of his house

--OR beat up by the drunk mean dad

--OR hit by a car

---OR all of the above

- QBBF and kid profess eternal love over a hospital bed

- Kid moves in with understanding, tolerant parents of the QBBF

- Best friend gets his shit together and says sorry

 

Tweak this formula with

- parents killed by freak auto accident

- Understanding, snarky fag hag best friend who pushes QB and kid to get together

- Quirky best friend/understanding older brother/uncle who fixes things

 

I can pretty much tell by sentence #3 in any given Nifty/HS story where we're going to end up. GA is different in that some, not all, of these set pieces get taken down, but still, a creative writing class is sometimes warranted.

 

 

Should I declare my love for you a now or in an official ceremony?

 

(But be warned, I'd only love you for your list.)

 

 

That might be the Nifty formula, but not what I have read in the works of Dom Luka, Mark Arbour, Adam Phillips and what limited dkstories I've read.

 

Strange, because in Dom Luka's work I found The Ordinary Us, Desert Droppings and The Log Way to fit this formula almost exactly. In The Fish Bowl also follows it pretty closely in Dennis' storyline.

 

 

Martin

[Former Member]

We do have to admit there is a formula at work, eh?

 

- Kid wakes up to an alarm clock or a mom yelling at him to get up for school

- Formulaic, unnecessary description of kid's physical attributes, leading to a shower/wank scene

- Kid goes to school

- Kid falls in love with quarterback whose been eying him since the beginning of the year, kid and QB/boyfriend hook up in a hot sex scene or six

- Somebody walks in on them doing the deed OR

- Kid gets outed by former best friend with homophobia issues

- Kid gets beat up by football team pissed off by QB's newly discovered gay tendencies

--OR kicked out of his house

--OR beat up by the drunk mean dad

--OR hit by a car

---OR all of the above

- QBBF and kid profess eternal love over a hospital bed

- Kid moves in with understanding, tolerant parents of the QBBF

- Best friend gets his shit together and says sorry

 

Tweak this formula with

- parents killed by freak auto accident

- Understanding, snarky fag hag best friend who pushes QB and kid to get together

- Quirky best friend/understanding older brother/uncle who fixes things

 

I can pretty much tell by sentence #3 in any given Nifty/HS story where we're going to end up. GA is different in that some, not all, of these set pieces get taken down, but still, a creative writing class is sometimes warranted.

 

Yes I agree, some have that basic theme going on, but most (even the high school themed) genres have a lot of variation in them.

For instance, I've just finished with Rhapsody in E Major, by N' existe pas. Totally different, but still high school orientated.

[Former Member]

No question about it. There is a reason to read the fiction here/awesomedude/crvboy/iomfats/etc rather than on Nifty. Some of the writers who are now here started on Nifty - it seems to be an incubator of sorts. Some of those writers fell into some of the worst tropes ever in their early days, and they know it - which is why that work is quietly ensconced over at nifty, and is not posted here.

 

I agree, what nifty really needs is some kind of rating system, to sort out the 'cheap romp' tales out from the well written novels. That's one of the reasons avoid nifty. It takes a long time to find an half decent story there.

[Former Member]

First things first, apologies for the length of this post. A lot of people said things I wanted to reply to.

 

 

Anyway, getting to the point:

 

I have noticed that there is a strong tendency towards this sort of story in a lot of gay fiction. Sometimes it seems to get to the point where 'gay fiction' is pretty much limited to 'gay highschool romance'. College if you're feeling rebellious.

 

It was actually the heavy predictability of a lot of stories which put me off reading a lot of gay fiction. It quickly gets to the point where right from the off the only question you have is whether the main character or his boyfriend will be the one to get beaten up.

 

 

 

 

 

Otherwise known as One Finger, Two Finger, Three Finger, Cock!

 

 

 

 

 

 

While it is true that all genres have their stereotypes, these particular stereotypes and cliches are often caused by things such as badly developed characters. They aren't due to the genre, they are due to bad writing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to say, I've seen a lot of gay sex scenes written by women who haven't run it past a gay friend which have been perfectly good, and often better, than a lot of typical gay sex scenes written by men.

 

 

 

 

 

Odd, because I found Billy Chase to be more of a fantasy of how high school could be rather than any sort of realistic depiction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But often the problem is that these stories are bad stories, the reason being that you can pretty accurately guess the entire plot from the first chapter. It isn't that the genre is heavily cliched, it's that these cliches are far too common within the genre.

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, why should fiction be limited to happy stories? Claiming that it has to be happy because it's fiction is basically saying that you can only gain pleasure from reading about perfect people living perfect lives - sometimes a truly depressing story can be interesting, entertaining or cathartic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should I declare my love for you a now or in an official ceremony?

 

(But be warned, I'd only love you for your list.)

 

 

 

 

Strange, because in Dom Luka's work I found The Ordinary Us, Desert Droppings and The Log Way to fit this formula almost exactly. In The Fish Bowl also follows it pretty closely in Dennis' storyline.

 

 

Martin

 

I understand what you're saying, but I can't complain either. These stories are , after all, free online for us all to read and enjoy.

Over the years I have read countless stories of the gay erotica genre. No more than 10 percent have been what i'd call predictable.

[clumber]

I understand what you're saying, but I can't complain either. These stories are , after all, free online for us all to read and enjoy.

Over the years I have read countless stories of the gay erotica genre. No more than 10 percent have been what i'd call predictable.

 

 

But if we create a culture where constructive criticism is frowned upon because everything is free, then it prevents authors from improving - not because they are incapable, but because they don't get the required feedback to allow it. Statements like 'it doesn't need to be good, it's on Nifty' shows that this is happening.

 

Martin

[Cia]

I have to say, I've seen a lot of gay sex scenes written by women who haven't run it past a gay friend which have been perfectly good, and often better, than a lot of typical gay sex scenes written by men.

 

 

 

Very true Clumber. But there are things I just can't know myself. I can write the dynamics and the emotions but I still like to have a 2nd look. I don't always run them by the guys but it can help, especially when I'm not sure of the scene myself. I like to write what I know but to some extent it's all make believe of course. Realism as far as possible is always my goal, even if the sex is between two aliens, lol!

[clumber]

Very true Clumber. But there are things I just can't know myself. I can write the dynamics and the emotions but I still like to have a 2nd look. I don't always run them by the guys but it can help, especially when I'm not sure of the scene myself. I like to write what I know but to some extent it's all make believe of course. Realism as far as possible is always my goal, even if the sex is between two aliens, lol!

 

 

Yeah, but then a lot of the sex scenes I've seen written by men seem to have no connection to a real arse. I'm not sure where the characters stick it but I suspect it's filled with magic expanding fairy dust. (As QAF US has shown us, no virgin has any trouble with 10 inches and no prep.)

 

 

Martin

[JudgeGabranthXII]

I like realism too, but it turns out that im not much for talk. I get irritated with stories that are too unrealistic and sweet. I am "trying" to steer my story away from that direction. However, this discussion has opened my eyes. Perhaps my writing level isn't good enough for GA yet. This is the first time i have ever written a story, so maybe its best i work on improving before posting here

[Nephylim]

I like realism too, but it turns out that im not much for talk. I get irritated with stories that are too unrealistic and sweet. I am "trying" to steer my story away from that direction. However, this discussion has opened my eyes. Perhaps my writing level isn't good enough for GA yet. This is the first time i have ever written a story, so maybe its best i work on improving before posting here

 

Get a beta and / or an editor and not only will they give you input on whether the story is ready or not they will also help you improve it

[Dannsar]

I like realism too, but it turns out that im not much for talk. I get irritated with stories that are too unrealistic and sweet. I am "trying" to steer my story away from that direction. However, this discussion has opened my eyes. Perhaps my writing level isn't good enough for GA yet. This is the first time i have ever written a story, so maybe its best i work on improving before posting here

 

Oh dear JG3, if I had thought that would be the outcome, I'd have made a bit of an issue about it in the opening argument. For new writers it is almost inevitable that you will fall into genre cliche traps. Just look at my story Just like it is inevitable that a newly walking baby will fall over, hurt themselves, and bawl the house down!

 

But the baby gets up and keeps going. And what's more, they don't bugger off to the local nursery and say "I'm gonna stay here until I can walk properly and not infect my home with my perambulatory inabilities". (Lordy, my bf has obviously been exposing me to faaaaar too much Stewie on Family Guy. Note to self ... avoid it like the plague rather than like sex with ugly people! )

 

I'm pretty much a newbie here myself, but I can't for a minute think that anybody on GA would want a new author to stay away until they had 'learned the craft'. After all, that is why we have people like Cia who do very good and helpful reviews. And also there is an editor and beta system which, while I'm still not sure how it works entirely, seems to me to be a good way of getting guidance from people with experience who you admire.

 

So, for heaven's sakes, please don't take it away and do it somewhere else. GA might actually want to help you, and they'd not be averse to having the next star author bestseller on their hands, either ... I'm willing to bet.

[PrivateTim]

Strange, because in Dom Luka's work I found The Ordinary Us, Desert Droppings and The Log Way to fit this formula almost exactly. In The Fish Bowl also follows it pretty closely in Dennis' storyline.

 

Martin

 

Seriously? I wonder if you have read the same Dom Luka stories I have. The only one where a kid was beaten for being gay was The Long Way and that is a reality many gay kids have had to deal with and it was really a minor part of The Long Way & In the Fish Bowl. Dennis was abused bu his father and brother, but not for being gay, just because that is who his father was, that too is a reality for lots of kids.

 

Rory didn't fit any of the formula BigDave laid out, neither does Quinn and certainly not Nelson & Milo.

 

I thought BigDave was really right on with his formula for Nifty and The Fort maybe, but the character development of Dom is so much deeper and the situations and reactions so much more realistic I just don't see the formula BigDave laid out.

[Mark Arbour]

Seriously? I wonder if you have read the same Dom Luka stories I have. The only one where a kid was beaten for being gay was The Long Way and that is a reality many gay kids have had to deal with and it was really a minor part of The Long Way & In the Fish Bowl. Dennis was abused bu his father and brother, but not for being gay, just because that is who his father was, that too is a reality for lots of kids.

 

Rory didn't fit any of the formula BigDave laid out, neither does Quinn and certainly not Nelson & Milo.

 

I thought BigDave was really right on with his formula for Nifty and The Fort maybe, but the character development of Dom is so much deeper and the situations and reactions so much more realistic I just don't see the formula BigDave laid out.

 

 

One of the many things I love about Dom's writing is the way he develops his characters, and how their quirkiness just adds to the story.

[Mark Arbour]

Nick Archer published this on his site (which is no longer active, sadly enough):

 

Jumping The Shark in Gay Fiction

 

By Nick Archer

 

There’s a fun website devoted to television called Jump The Shark. They describe their mission as "It’s a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite television show has reached it’s peak. That instant that you know from now on…..it’s all downhill. We call that moment Jumping the Shark."

 

I’ve spent many hours laughing along with the amusing comments on the message boards. And then I thought to adapt the concept to gay fiction.

 

Jumping the Shark in Gay Fiction is a story element that is so overused it’s predictable. You can see what’s coming a country mile away. Or it’s a common mistake that amateur writers use. JTS in gay fiction is that moment or plot element that stretches our believability to the limit. Or it’s the story element that is so over-used that it’s a cliché. After that, it’s all downhill….assuming there was a climax in the first place.

 

Don’t take the list personally; all of us have used at least one of these in our stories.

 

· The "Personal Ad" Self-Description: "Me? I’m 6’1", 175 lbs., blond hair, blue eyes, 8" uncut cock, and I have a 6-pack from doing 3000 sit-ups a day…." Also known as: But First, Let Me Introduce Myself…

 

· The Collision: Our hero collides with a potential love interest in a crowded high school hallway or college quad.

 

· Dead Parents: It’s soooo convenient not to have parents - therefore avoiding coming out to them. Not to mention that you can skip school, use the car whenever you want, forget homework and no curfew! Writing about an orphan has made JK Rowling incredibly rich, but she is a professional. Don’t do it.

 

· Location, Location, Location: Stories are always located in sunny California or Florida with sex scenes on the beach. Ever get sand up your ass? It may come as a shock to some authors that gay people also live in areas where the snow flies. If you actually live in Tampa or San Diego, that’s fine. But if you live in Kenosha, Kalamazoo or Kankakee stop writing about where you wish you lived. Write what you know.

 

· Oversized Body Parts: Penises seem to gain at least two inches in every story on the Net. Do we really need to know the length, thickness and circumcision status of everyone’s dick?

 

· Richie Rich: This cliché often accompanies Dead Parents. The Parents die, leaving our Hero with gazillions. Or they have a perfect job from which they can take endless time off and still earn millions a year. Or they win the lottery. If the main characters are teenagers, they never seem to have jobs. And how many college students today have the luxury of notworking?

 

· Let’s Sit Around and Talk About Our Feelings: C’mon guys! This isn’t a sensitivity seminar or a conscience-raising session! These are horny, red-blooded guys! They’re only going to do enough talking to get into the other guy’s pants. After they’ve lit a cigarette and are staring at the ceiling, they might get around to talking about their emotions. An extension: People seldom sit around and talk about anything, unless it’s with a paid mental health professional. Usually they wait until they’re in the drive-thru at McDonald’s or washing the dog or raking the yard to reveal to their partner of 11 years that they’ve been boinking the poolboy.

 

· The Names-We-Wish-We-Had. Our parents gave us boring names - like David and John - so we’ll give our characters the names we wish our parents had named us. Justin. Tyler. Trevor. Cody. Brad and Chad. Brice or Bryce. Roland. Tobias (Tobi for short.) Precious names -- names that are cute for a 3-year-old little boy but awkward for anyone older -- like Casey or Corey. Biblical names like Isaiah, Noah or Jonah. Names that are derived from professions (and are very popular among the Southern landed gentry) like Hunter, Trapper, Carter or Tanner. Common names with cutesy spellings like Taylar, Brien, Khile. Stop it!

 

· I’m Not Gay But My Boyfriend Is: "I’m straight, but I couldn't help but notice the other guy’s six-pack under his tight Tommy Hilfiger shirt, bubble butt and 8.7 inch cock showing through his Fubu jeans." Yeah, you’re straight, all right, until the third paragraph when you fall to your knees faster than a Catholic at Sunday Mass.

 

· Sports Hero Falls For Geek/Nerd/Outcast: Maybe it’s one of our common fantasies - we’ve all jacked off with the image of the Sports Hero in our minds. Use the Sports Hero once, to get it out of your system, and then lay this cliché to rest for good.

 

· Moving is Traumatic: Moving may well be traumatic because it represents a loss of control over our lives (especially for teenagers). But let’s give this overused plot element a rest! Enough already!

 

· Dialogue #1: Say What? Dialogue that sounds like it was translated from Mongolian to English by a computer: "Do you really deem me diligent because I persisted in my attempts to insert my penis into your rectum? Your compliments are more than necessary, I’m sure. Your words are not untruthful, but they do border on hyperbole." 12-year-old main characters that have the verbal ability of college graduates. Do not make your story into an opportunity to showcase your vocabulary skills.

 

· Dialogue #2: Valley Boys: "Like c’mon, duuuuude, I just moved to California. That board is totally rad! Bitchin’ Like, I’m so sure." In other words, dialogue that makes it obvious that the writer is a middle-aged man trying to write like he was a teenager again.

 

· Dialogue #3: "Gee, Mister that’s Swell." Be extremely careful about slang and idioms. They’re going to date your story faster than a tweaking hustler in need of a fix. Include a few slang phrases to set the time frame of your story but be aware that the only English slang word to stand the test of time and is understood by all generations, cultures and classes is "cool." And nobody - absolutely nobody - says "Gee" anymore.

 

· Superheroes: These are main characters without any flaws. They are perfect in every way. They’re beautiful, rich, intelligent, well hung, and fashionable and have a wonderful sense of humor. They would never get zits or an STD, or file bankruptcy, or lose their temper or - God forbid - fart. Leave the Superheroes for the comic books.

 

· Smilies: Never, never, never, never use smilies. Your job as an author is to paint a word-picture of your characters, plot and settings. Any interaction between yourself (the writer) and the reader should be done through words, not through icons. An addendum: never use phrases or acronyms you might use in a chat room; such as hehehehe or BTW.

 

· The Alarm Clock: Please, please don’t start your story with a ringing alarm clock. We all hate to get up in the morning, and everyone hates the sound of the damn thing. Why remind us? A postscript to this is the doorbell. The only time you should write about the ringing doorbell is when the Avon Lady arrives. A post-postscript: Nix the ringing school bell. Besides, few schools use actual bells anymore. Most use an annoying tone or beep over the intercom system.

 

· Switching Narrators: If you feel the need to describe the thought processes and/or feelings of more than one character, I’ve got two words for you: third person! In third person you can describe the thoughts and feelings of ALL your characters if you are so inclined. What a concept!

 

· The "Phyllis" Syndrome: The Mary Tyler Moore Show had two major spinoffs; Rhoda and Phyllis. Rhoda was successful because Rhoda Morgenstern was a likeable character and she was funny. She was everyone’s favorite next-door neighbor. Phyllis was not successful because the Phyllis character was basically unlikable - selfish, pretentious and boorish. The point is - be very, very careful if you make your main character unlikable. It's a sure way to alienate readers. If you insist on having a selfish, rude, ignorant, insufferable, stupid individual as your main character, at least give him some redeeming characteristic.

 

· Is It Live or Memorex? All good fiction has elements of truth to it. And good autobiographies have elements of fiction to them. But make up your freaking mind! Are you writing fiction or an autobiography? If you’re writing fiction you have permission, no, you MUST stray from the facts. Not only to protect your ass from lawsuits but in order to make it fiction. If you absolutely can’t do it, if it’s too difficult for you to allow yourself to fictionalize your memories, then for God’s sake, label your story an autobiography and get on with it!

 

· Onions Always Make Me Cry: The major characters shed more tears than if they were slicing an onion. Most men, gay or straight, really don’t cry that often. Our brains are wired differently and hormones play a big part, too. It takes a lot to make a man cry. It shouldn’t happen on every page or even in every chapter. Save the crying scene for the climax of the story. Either that or get a Veg-O-Matic! It slices, it dices, it chops! Onions sliced so fast, you won't have time to cry! (Old Curmudgeon’s Note: I always get at least one email saying something to the effect: "I cry all the time. It makes me feel better." Well, good for you! You’re the minority. Notice I said most men. Now hand me that box of tissues.)

 

· That’s Some Bedside Manner: Delete the maudlin hospital scene. You know the one - where the lover is crying (see above) over his comatose boyfriend. I’m serious. Do it right now! Highlight the scene and hit the delete button! I won’t be happy until you do.

 

· Who’re You Callin’ Stupid and Lazy? You assume your reader is stupid and lazy if you: 1) Summarize the previous chapter at the beginning of the next chapter (The reader can re-read it for themselves) 2) Label your stories ‘Series’ (They can see it’s a series) or 3) Write The End at the end of your story (Unless you’re writing a screenplay or a story for young children, it should be obvious from your story that you’re done.)

 

· Details, Details, Details: Details are great. They give life to your story and involve your reader. But you can take it too far. Do we really need to know the playlist on your iPod? Does that conversation about whether to have lamb chops or pork ribs for dinner really need to be included? Does the reader really need to know the directions from your house to your favorite sex toy emporium? I’ll answer those questions with a question: Does it further the action or help define a character? If not, delete it. It is possible to have too many details.

 

· Card-Carrying Member of PFLAG: Ever notice how parents, brothers and sisters, grandparents, uncles and aunts all accept the gayness of the main characters without any reservations? Does this happen in real life? It does with some, I’m sure. Let’s take a poll - raise your hand if your relatives accepted you immediately when you came out. Hmmm. A minority. Thought so.

 

· "Alex, I’ll Take Facts for $500:" This not a game show where you have a 50% chance of getting the right answer. BUZZZZ! Wrong answer! Do your research! If you are unfamiliar with a topic or your memory has been clouded by too many controlled substances, hop on the Internet and Google it! True, you are writing fiction but getting the facts straight can prevent you from making major errors and will just simply make your story better and more believable. Besides Google, try Mapquest or Wikipedia. If the information is not available on the Internet a short, polite email to a local library, chamber of commerce, tourism or travel bureau, professional association or historical society may do the trick. Tell them you’re a writer (because you ARE) doing research for a story. That’s what they’re there for. You’ll be pleasantly surprised at how helpful these people will be. Do not guess!

 

(Ooo! Look at that! I Jumped the Shark! )

 

[Dannsar]

Well, Mark! I'm glad I'm only a moany git, and that someone else had the time, patience, and sheer exasperation to document all that. Brilliant. I think that will probably be the end of the life of this thread! If people like Nick Archer say it, and Mark Arbour endorse it ... the rest of us can really have very little to add.

 

Oh, and it is also a screed of very good writing advice too!

 

Thank you

[thephoenix]

Please write more college themed stories! High school for me as of this month was 7 years ago and it's difficult to think back that far.

 

It makes it easier for me to put myself in the protagonist's shoes to escape the real world for a little while.

[Former Member]

Nick Archer published this on his site (which is no longer active, sadly enough):

 

Jumping The Shark in Gay Fiction

 

By Nick Archer

 

There’s a fun website devoted to television called Jump The Shark. They describe their mission as "It’s a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite television show has reached it’s peak. That instant that you know from now on…..it’s all downhill. We call that moment Jumping the Shark."

 

I’ve spent many hours laughing along with the amusing comments on the message boards. And then I thought to adapt the concept to gay fiction.

 

Jumping the Shark in Gay Fiction is a story element that is so overused it’s predictable. You can see what’s coming a country mile away. Or it’s a common mistake that amateur writers use. JTS in gay fiction is that moment or plot element that stretches our believability to the limit. Or it’s the story element that is so over-used that it’s a cliché. After that, it’s all downhill….assuming there was a climax in the first place.

 

Don’t take the list personally; all of us have used at least one of these in our stories.

 

· The "Personal Ad" Self-Description: "Me? I’m 6’1", 175 lbs., blond hair, blue eyes, 8" uncut cock, and I have a 6-pack from doing 3000 sit-ups a day…." Also known as: But First, Let Me Introduce Myself…

 

· The Collision: Our hero collides with a potential love interest in a crowded high school hallway or college quad.

 

· Dead Parents: It’s soooo convenient not to have parents - therefore avoiding coming out to them. Not to mention that you can skip school, use the car whenever you want, forget homework and no curfew! Writing about an orphan has made JK Rowling incredibly rich, but she is a professional. Don’t do it.

 

· Location, Location, Location: Stories are always located in sunny California or Florida with sex scenes on the beach. Ever get sand up your ass? It may come as a shock to some authors that gay people also live in areas where the snow flies. If you actually live in Tampa or San Diego, that’s fine. But if you live in Kenosha, Kalamazoo or Kankakee stop writing about where you wish you lived. Write what you know.

 

· Oversized Body Parts: Penises seem to gain at least two inches in every story on the Net. Do we really need to know the length, thickness and circumcision status of everyone’s dick?

 

· Richie Rich: This cliché often accompanies Dead Parents. The Parents die, leaving our Hero with gazillions. Or they have a perfect job from which they can take endless time off and still earn millions a year. Or they win the lottery. If the main characters are teenagers, they never seem to have jobs. And how many college students today have the luxury of notworking?

 

· Let’s Sit Around and Talk About Our Feelings: C’mon guys! This isn’t a sensitivity seminar or a conscience-raising session! These are horny, red-blooded guys! They’re only going to do enough talking to get into the other guy’s pants. After they’ve lit a cigarette and are staring at the ceiling, they might get around to talking about their emotions. An extension: People seldom sit around and talk about anything, unless it’s with a paid mental health professional. Usually they wait until they’re in the drive-thru at McDonald’s or washing the dog or raking the yard to reveal to their partner of 11 years that they’ve been boinking the poolboy.

 

· The Names-We-Wish-We-Had. Our parents gave us boring names - like David and John - so we’ll give our characters the names we wish our parents had named us. Justin. Tyler. Trevor. Cody. Brad and Chad. Brice or Bryce. Roland. Tobias (Tobi for short.) Precious names -- names that are cute for a 3-year-old little boy but awkward for anyone older -- like Casey or Corey. Biblical names like Isaiah, Noah or Jonah. Names that are derived from professions (and are very popular among the Southern landed gentry) like Hunter, Trapper, Carter or Tanner. Common names with cutesy spellings like Taylar, Brien, Khile. Stop it!

 

· I’m Not Gay But My Boyfriend Is: "I’m straight, but I couldn't help but notice the other guy’s six-pack under his tight Tommy Hilfiger shirt, bubble butt and 8.7 inch cock showing through his Fubu jeans." Yeah, you’re straight, all right, until the third paragraph when you fall to your knees faster than a Catholic at Sunday Mass.

 

· Sports Hero Falls For Geek/Nerd/Outcast: Maybe it’s one of our common fantasies - we’ve all jacked off with the image of the Sports Hero in our minds. Use the Sports Hero once, to get it out of your system, and then lay this cliché to rest for good.

 

· Moving is Traumatic: Moving may well be traumatic because it represents a loss of control over our lives (especially for teenagers). But let’s give this overused plot element a rest! Enough already!

 

· Dialogue #1: Say What? Dialogue that sounds like it was translated from Mongolian to English by a computer: "Do you really deem me diligent because I persisted in my attempts to insert my penis into your rectum? Your compliments are more than necessary, I’m sure. Your words are not untruthful, but they do border on hyperbole." 12-year-old main characters that have the verbal ability of college graduates. Do not make your story into an opportunity to showcase your vocabulary skills.

 

· Dialogue #2: Valley Boys: "Like c’mon, duuuuude, I just moved to California. That board is totally rad! Bitchin’ Like, I’m so sure." In other words, dialogue that makes it obvious that the writer is a middle-aged man trying to write like he was a teenager again.

 

· Dialogue #3: "Gee, Mister that’s Swell." Be extremely careful about slang and idioms. They’re going to date your story faster than a tweaking hustler in need of a fix. Include a few slang phrases to set the time frame of your story but be aware that the only English slang word to stand the test of time and is understood by all generations, cultures and classes is "cool." And nobody - absolutely nobody - says "Gee" anymore.

 

· Superheroes: These are main characters without any flaws. They are perfect in every way. They’re beautiful, rich, intelligent, well hung, and fashionable and have a wonderful sense of humor. They would never get zits or an STD, or file bankruptcy, or lose their temper or - God forbid - fart. Leave the Superheroes for the comic books.

 

· Smilies: Never, never, never, never use smilies. Your job as an author is to paint a word-picture of your characters, plot and settings. Any interaction between yourself (the writer) and the reader should be done through words, not through icons. An addendum: never use phrases or acronyms you might use in a chat room; such as hehehehe or BTW.

 

· The Alarm Clock: Please, please don’t start your story with a ringing alarm clock. We all hate to get up in the morning, and everyone hates the sound of the damn thing. Why remind us? A postscript to this is the doorbell. The only time you should write about the ringing doorbell is when the Avon Lady arrives. A post-postscript: Nix the ringing school bell. Besides, few schools use actual bells anymore. Most use an annoying tone or beep over the intercom system.

 

· Switching Narrators: If you feel the need to describe the thought processes and/or feelings of more than one character, I’ve got two words for you: third person! In third person you can describe the thoughts and feelings of ALL your characters if you are so inclined. What a concept!

 

· The "Phyllis" Syndrome: The Mary Tyler Moore Show had two major spinoffs; Rhoda and Phyllis. Rhoda was successful because Rhoda Morgenstern was a likeable character and she was funny. She was everyone’s favorite next-door neighbor. Phyllis was not successful because the Phyllis character was basically unlikable - selfish, pretentious and boorish. The point is - be very, very careful if you make your main character unlikable. It's a sure way to alienate readers. If you insist on having a selfish, rude, ignorant, insufferable, stupid individual as your main character, at least give him some redeeming characteristic.

 

· Is It Live or Memorex? All good fiction has elements of truth to it. And good autobiographies have elements of fiction to them. But make up your freaking mind! Are you writing fiction or an autobiography? If you’re writing fiction you have permission, no, you MUST stray from the facts. Not only to protect your ass from lawsuits but in order to make it fiction. If you absolutely can’t do it, if it’s too difficult for you to allow yourself to fictionalize your memories, then for God’s sake, label your story an autobiography and get on with it!

 

· Onions Always Make Me Cry: The major characters shed more tears than if they were slicing an onion. Most men, gay or straight, really don’t cry that often. Our brains are wired differently and hormones play a big part, too. It takes a lot to make a man cry. It shouldn’t happen on every page or even in every chapter. Save the crying scene for the climax of the story. Either that or get a Veg-O-Matic! It slices, it dices, it chops! Onions sliced so fast, you won't have time to cry! (Old Curmudgeon’s Note: I always get at least one email saying something to the effect: "I cry all the time. It makes me feel better." Well, good for you! You’re the minority. Notice I said most men. Now hand me that box of tissues.)

 

· That’s Some Bedside Manner: Delete the maudlin hospital scene. You know the one - where the lover is crying (see above) over his comatose boyfriend. I’m serious. Do it right now! Highlight the scene and hit the delete button! I won’t be happy until you do.

 

· Who’re You Callin’ Stupid and Lazy? You assume your reader is stupid and lazy if you: 1) Summarize the previous chapter at the beginning of the next chapter (The reader can re-read it for themselves) 2) Label your stories ‘Series’ (They can see it’s a series) or 3) Write The End at the end of your story (Unless you’re writing a screenplay or a story for young children, it should be obvious from your story that you’re done.)

 

· Details, Details, Details: Details are great. They give life to your story and involve your reader. But you can take it too far. Do we really need to know the playlist on your iPod? Does that conversation about whether to have lamb chops or pork ribs for dinner really need to be included? Does the reader really need to know the directions from your house to your favorite sex toy emporium? I’ll answer those questions with a question: Does it further the action or help define a character? If not, delete it. It is possible to have too many details.

 

· Card-Carrying Member of PFLAG: Ever notice how parents, brothers and sisters, grandparents, uncles and aunts all accept the gayness of the main characters without any reservations? Does this happen in real life? It does with some, I’m sure. Let’s take a poll - raise your hand if your relatives accepted you immediately when you came out. Hmmm. A minority. Thought so.

 

· "Alex, I’ll Take Facts for $500:" This not a game show where you have a 50% chance of getting the right answer. BUZZZZ! Wrong answer! Do your research! If you are unfamiliar with a topic or your memory has been clouded by too many controlled substances, hop on the Internet and Google it! True, you are writing fiction but getting the facts straight can prevent you from making major errors and will just simply make your story better and more believable. Besides Google, try Mapquest or Wikipedia. If the information is not available on the Internet a short, polite email to a local library, chamber of commerce, tourism or travel bureau, professional association or historical society may do the trick. Tell them you’re a writer (because you ARE) doing research for a story. That’s what they’re there for. You’ll be pleasantly surprised at how helpful these people will be. Do not guess!

 

(Ooo! Look at that! I Jumped the Shark! )

 

 

I think that just about covers every story online in some way shape or form

[cehammock]

I suspect the reason why so many gay stories, especially stories written by teenagers, that have so much "Schmaltz, saccharine, sickening" romantic plot lines, is because they are basically writing wish fantasies. How they wish, fantasize about how their lives could be lived, as opposed to the way they really are. Who can blame them; life is hard sometimes, even today, for gay teens. I remember that time so many years ago, and even being 44 now; I still feel the temptation to write that way. But I have also read a lot of dark stories about teenage gay life filled with drugs and sexual abuse. Maybe when you confront the worse that could possibly happen in fiction, what happens in real life does not seem so bad in comparison.

[Dannsar]

I suspect the reason why so many gay stories, especially stories written by teenagers, that have so much "Schmaltz, saccharine, sickening" romantic plot lines, is because they are basically writing wish fantasies. How they wish, fantasize about how their lives could be lived, as opposed to the way they really are. Who can blame them; life is hard sometimes, even today, for gay teens. I remember that time so many years ago, and even being 44 now; I still feel the temptation to write that way. But I have also read a lot of dark stories about teenage gay life filled with drugs and sexual abuse. Maybe when you confront the worse that could possibly happen in fiction, what happens in real life does not seem so bad in comparison.

 

Hmmmmm ... that's some interesting remarks. Thanks.

[SynthSky]

Teenagers will try to express some sort of ideal relationship in their stories. In my experience, rant-posts don't effectively prevent that.

 

There isn't much you can do to change developing writers. It's nice to state that you see a trend, and to find people that agree with you, but the only option you really have is to sit back and ignore it.

[Dannsar]

Teenagers will try to express some sort of ideal relationship in their stories. In my experience, rant-posts don't effectively prevent that.

Hello and welcome!

 

I think you might find, if you read the entirety of the thread, or even just the intial post I put up, that neither I nor anybody else have said anything that contradicts what you have said. Firstly, only one or two people have restricted this to teenagers. I certainly didn't and neither did many of the other posters.

 

Secondly, this is not a rant-post. It is a clear attempt to raise the issue in a forum for debate and to try to raise awareness of it as a trope within this wider genre which is perhaps a little tired. Or to put it another way, intellectual debate.

 

Thirdly, I am not aware of many teenagers who post lengthy stories of such a nature. Most do not have the time or inclination to do so. It's not that they can't, as some clearly do. It's just that most of these stories are written by older people. So your opening comment isn't really addressing a statement that anybody has made.

[Dannsar]

There isn't much you can do to change developing writers. It's nice to state that you see a trend, and to find people that agree with you, but the only option you really have is to sit back and ignore it.

 

In this part you are clearly mistaken, or if you aren't, then the entire system of education globally is. Developing writers is what is done here at GA, to one extent or another with all writers. It may be through general support of positive commentary. It may be through the rep system (albeit incidentally). It may may be by reviewing. It may be by editing or betaing. It may just be by the simple act of reading a story through to the end. All writers take in ideas through discussion of one form or another, so they all change. While it may be true to say that it is very unlikely one person is going to have a developmental effect on all, this should not prevent us from having some effect locally. That is really the only way that society moves on.

 

Your second sentence is purely patronising and extemely demoralising.

 

But as I said earlier. Welcome to GA.

[SynthSky]

In this part you are clearly mistaken, or if you aren't, then the entire system of education globally is. Developing writers is what is done here at GA, to one extent or another with all writers. It may be through general support of positive commentary. It may be through the rep system (albeit incidentally). It may may be by reviewing. It may be by editing or betaing. It may just be by the simple act of reading a story through to the end. All writers take in ideas through discussion of one form or another, so they all change. While it may be true to say that it is very unlikely one person is going to have a developmental effect on all, this should not prevent us from having some effect locally. That is really the only way that society moves on.

 

Your second sentence is purely patronising and extemely demoralising.

 

But as I said earlier. Welcome to GA.

 

So, naturally, the writers who haven't been through GA's system of critiquing and editing are the ones who are most likely to create the lackluster, hyper-romantic stuff mentioned in your original post. I paired this with the lack of emotional maturity and experience common in younger writers, and age/high school was definitely mentioned somewhere in the thread; it's easy to see how I arrived at teenagers. We're also a generation of heavy internet-users, so I assume that we make up for a large part of most forums' situated populations, and an even larger part of their inexperienced user base. And, my post was only offering another cause. We're clearly a part of your problem, after all.

 

I agree that GA positively influences gay authors; that's what it exists for. On a larger scale, though, people tend to fall into traps with their writing until they've found the same sort of feedback, and before that, pieces with the mentioned flaws are produced. Like you said, you can have a local effect, but new users will always be signing up, and there will always be an influx of questionable writing. That part of the equation isn't changeable, and your original post is evidence that it never really disappears. Also, "ignore" wasn't the right word. I meant that it's easier to help those within your reach, and accept (without the annoyance hinted at by your original alliteration) that some sickeningly saccharine stuff is going to be pushed into the world of online writing. It's natural and unavoidable. Again, like you said, it can and will be helped by GA's more talented members or by whatever educational system a writer happens to be a part of. There's no real reason to fret over it.

 

And, for the almost mandatory apologetic paragraph, I didn't mean to come off as offensive, patronizing, or demoralizing. Thank you for your welcome, and I'm sorry that I've caused conflict

 

EDIT: Also, check the third post. That's the first time teenagers are mentioned.

Edited July 4, 2011 by SynthSky

[B1ue]

Secondly, this is not a rant-post. It is a clear attempt to raise the issue in a forum for debate and to try to raise awareness of it as a trope within this wider genre which is perhaps a little tired. Or to put it another way, intellectual debate.

I'm trying to refrain from sounding like I am ranting myself, which is difficult, because I am in basic disagreement with the thrust of your deabte, if not your evidence. So, while I believe you when you say that this is not a rant-post, I intitially thought that's exactly what it was. In fact, I still would, if you had not backpedaled and stated theat you were only raising awareness of an issue. I feel it was an easy conclusion to reach when your initial post boiled down to, "internet stories are crap and do not often reach emotional tenors that are interesting to me." Obviously, that's not what you meant, but that sounds like what you said.

 

As I said, I cannot argue with your evidence, which is pretty plain on even a cursory glance through the Nifty Archives. Cliches abound in many of thsoe stories, to the point where they are mocked, cited, and annotated as the attributes of gay fiction. My first story I wrote specifically because I wanted to read a protagonist that I found lacking on the archive, someone to whom angst was a foreign concept and was quite fine with being gay, thank you. I've since found others (the opening arc of Kaimona Tales on CRVboy springs to mind most readily), but of course not many.

 

But I do disagree with the idea, almost obscured by the smirking identification of other cliches authors run, headlong, into in this little world, that the plethora of happy, upbeat fiction is a herald of the end times. That is a matter of taste, and opinion, I think. You are certainly free to dislike them, but to call it a problem of the genre and not how you, personally, approach the genre is going a bit too far. Personally, I can't stand the creepy, the maudlin, and the potentially insane in stories I read. I prefer bubblegum literature, which at least won't leave me scratching my head wondering if it was the characters who were crazy, the authors, or myself. After a time, the answer may as well have been myself. Christopher's Story bothered me for, oh, two years I think. I have yet to finish a Carl Holiday story, despite the high quality of the prose, because they are simply too dark for me. Nephy I've made an exception for, but even her I need to take in small doses. But none of this dislike is a relfection on the stories. I'm the one with a problem; the words are there whether I can deal with them or not. It is unreasonable to demand the Archive, and the authors on it, adjust to suit my tastes.

 

Do you not see how it might be the same for yours?

[Cia]

Basically, we write what we know or what we like to read. There have been many articles put out about how every plot idea and twist has been done and all you are left to work with is find a new way to put them together into an original story arc that fits with what you are envisioning. Our stories are only as good as our imaginations and our writing skills.

 

Learning to go beyond the obvious, how a story is structured properly, and just how to present the idea you start off with is a process. I've yet to go into my first, and longest, story here on GA. It's full of structure, plot, and grammar errors. Some might read it and go, OMG, you're hosted??? Why? I've been accused of writing an amateurish-teeange high school first draft type of story before and to some, it might be that way. I've used over-idealized characters that could and should have been given a more realistic personality. We all do it sometimes, hard as we try not to. Comments and feedback on those flaws help me grow beyond using them again.

 

I'm not a teenager. My first story was started when I was 28, I was 29 when I wrote the 'teenage-eque' story. Teenagers are definitely more than capable of writing well thought out and creative stories and 'adults' are more than capable of writing what others think is crap. The online world had become a phenomenal way for writers to get their rough work seen and read and get feedback on how to write, well... better. Skill comes with practice for all but a very lucky savant type few, no matter what age we are.

 

There will always be readers out there for those stories you might not like to read, that is the beauty of the internet. To each their own. Some people like those kinds of stories and Nifty is heaven to them. Some like to go beyond that and read here on GA. Some people think all online fiction is crap and only read published works. That's the reader's choice.