[Grammar] It's not all That

[NotNoNever]

I've been having something of a tussle with 'that'....

 

I've been editing for someone who uses 'that' a lot. And, just to note, I used 'who' there, as alluded to in tuberunner's topic on that particular issue. However, the stuff that I have been editing...

 

And that's it exactly ... I could also say 'the stuff I've been editing'.

 

I find the use of 'that' in such circumstances is not seemingly wrong, but I do find it tiresome, and I also think it clogs up writing and makes it more of a wade.

 

Comment / opinions / advice, please

[harcallard]

I think in some instances it is okay to use the word that. However, it can be easily over used.. Maybe you can suggest to your writer to remove the wrod that and see how the sentence sound with out it. Then he or she can use another word....

[NotNoNever]

Yeah, but it's important to let them write their way. I do enough 'interference' as it is

[joann414]

have to say this. You are the editor, be Honest! You will be letting the writer and yourself down if you are not. i am just a reader, but editing goes a long way. Hugs

[Cia]

An editor's job is to eliminate the dross in writing. I had several words suggested to me to search for that could be eliminated. It made me notice several things in my writing I have since corrected. They're not necessarily wrong, they're simply not exactly right either. 'Just' isn't improper grammar but it is clunky and something professional editors tell authors to remove, which was my main problem.

 

You don't want to re-write their story for them, of course. My suggestion would be to simply suggest your author do a search for the word 'that' in their document and review each instance of use. If it isn't necessary, why not take it out? Concise writing, with fewer words, removes the focus from the way the author is telling the story TO the story. Less is more. Then you let them make their own choice on the places it is used.

[podga]

But do readers really notice too-frequent use of certain "connecting" words or common expressions, or is it simply editors who do so when they're "working"?

 

Also, I don't completely agree that a reader's focus should only be on the story and not the writing style, or that by using concise language the reader focuses more on the story. Pacing, a narrator's 'voice', how emotionally close I feel to a story (and hence how much I enjoy it) are all influenced by which words are used and how they're all put together.

 

That being said, I would certainly appreciate an editor calling a potential problem to my attention, because obviously not every sentence or word is the result of internal debate and careful choices!

[NotNoNever]

One of the greatest issues for an editor is not to affect the story. Another is not to affect the voice which is articulating the story. Words like 'that' can be a bit like the cement an author uses. So to advise removing them would need to have a very good reasoning behind them. There's another topic on here somewhere about the use of adverbs (or is it adjectives - don't remember). That's the same thing. For me it's about what might make a sentence turgid. Personally, if I'm writing, I use 'that' a lot, then go back and take vast quantities of them out. I always seek to help make a writer's work sharper, cleaner, and brighter. However, one has to be careful not to polish through the silver, as it were.

 

Cia's suggestion of, let's call it a suspect list' is probably a good one. And it would probably be useful if you were to share it, Cia, if you wouldn't mind.

 

I have a personal issue with the placing of quotation marks and commas. I know the rules, but there are times I object and do what I want. I guess what I'm trying to get at is whether there us a generally accepted consensus on 'that' (either as a word or as a grammatical element), from where we can accept or justify deviation if the author so chooses.

 

I guess, too, that it doesn't help that I have an author who I'm a bit in awe of, and really respect their writing As an editor, it sorta doesn't matter whether the writer agrees / disagrees, accepts / rejects. The fact of asking the question can also have an effect. Tricky, that!

[Dark]

That is definitely a tricky word. I think it's like slang, something that creeps into our writing because that's the way people tend to talk. I think a good editor is one who points out when a word is being over-used or misused. Sharon helped me realize that I was using blonde/blond wrong, and also why backwards/forwards/towards is technically incorrect. I guess you could say I'm making my own suspect list! Maybe it'd be a cautionary thing? Like, telling your writer that you think he's using it too much? Any word can be over-used. It drives me crazy when my students use the word "it" and start sentences with "however."