9.11

[Miles Long]

Three loud cheers for Will saving the day and shutting Scott down; hopefully once Will moves into his own place Scott will be out of the story.

OR

How about Scott goes to NYC to open an east coast branch of his shop in early Sep? Me thinks it could work.

 

I am surprised that JP of all people seems to think that this particular period in time is so calm. I would think that events like:

 

-Holland being the first country in the world to legalize same sex marriage since ye really olden times

-The first of Bush's infamous and subsequently short sighted tax cuts (but hey hindsight is 20/20 so...)

-Continued tension in Middle East with Hamas bombing in Tel Aviv, World Conference on Racism, and US exerting efforts to disarm/disable Iraq's air defenses to list a few

-Not to mention the launch of Wikipedia making homework more interesting for educators everywhere

 

Would hold more interest to someone like JP given how worldly and connected to the subtler details he has been in past stories. Maybe he's too wrapped up in the family snark and Claremont's revitalization to put much introspection into what's going on. Sadly, soon enough events will be so blatant they will dwarf the petty drama of day to day trials.

 

Fun chapter, continued thanks.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Miles Long

[methodwriter85]

 

Continued tension in Middle East with Hamas bombing in Tel Aviv, World Conference on Racism, and US exerting efforts to disarm/disable Iraq's air defenses to list a few

 

       Tensions in the Middle East were nothing out of the ordinary, though. That place has been a mess since at least the 1970's. As my classmate who grew up in Israel put it, Americans had become pretty blase to violence in the Mid-East, until it came here in the form of 9/11. 2001 was described as being a slow enough news summer that a series of shark attacks became big news in the U.S. I think the big story right before 9/11 happened was Aliyah dying in a plane crash in late August.

 

       I do think it's interesting that gay marriage in Holland hasn't been mentioned yet...I thought it was weird when they didn't mention civil unions on Vermont in July 2000, either. I would have thought that would have been at least a semi-big deal, considering Stefan threw a party when homosexuals were declared sane in 1973.

 

 

If you think about John's situation, he's probably mostly straight, and when he's around Will, he may just feel as if he's expected to put out, even if he doesn't want to.

 

     Does John still have his girlfriend? I mean, 8th grade girlfriends usually don't last long, but eh. I'm glad we're going with "mostly straight" instead of plain straight with John, because it'd be a damned shame to waste John's looks on him being totally straight like we did with Darius. LOL. (It also goes with what Adam's talking about, how more and more guys are owning up to the idea that they're not quite so rigid in their sexuality.) In all seriousness, I think you're hitting on the awkwardness of being "broken up" without really being broken up because they were never really together...John saw their sexual interaction at 12/13 as a fun extension of their friendship, while Will had himself picking out china patterns. It makes sense that John now feels self-concious around Will about trying not to lead him on.

Edited June 30, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Miles Long]

       Tensions in the Middle East were nothing out of the ordinary, though. That place has been a mess since at least the 1970's. As my classmate who grew up in Israel put it, Americans had become pretty blase to violence in the Mid-East, until it came here in the form of 9/11. 2001 was described as being a slow enough news summer that a series of shark attacks became big news in the U.S. I think the big story right before 9/11 happened was Aliyah dying in a plane crash in late August.

 

 

No, not out of the ordinary, but to someone like JP who has made a career researching significant historical events, I am surprised that he is so quick to dismiss the events of early 2001.  

 

IMHO US news is not always the best source for important goings on in the world and just because Americans don't always show interest in the events around them doesn't mean they aren't significant.  If that were true and JP only focused on issues that were interesting to mainstream America, he would not have chosen Algeria to research in the OG CAP story.

 

I get that for most folks 2001 probably seemed like a slow year, but I think there was a lot more going on if one looks beneath the surface.  JP seems like the kind of character that would look; it's not a crime that he didn't.

 

I also get that compared to the events of 9/11 just about everything pales in comparison.

[MJ85]

We've still got drama from Marie to deal with, that hasn't been completely resolved yet - and I still don't think it will end up being so easy or simple as being able to be hashed out once everyone sits down to do so.

 

Other than that, though...I'm wishing the towers would just get hit already.

[Daddydavek]

The latest chapter is a primer on what's going on in the mind of Will and how he is processing his experiences.

 

It provides insight into how Will is maturing and relating his experiences. The bit with the shrink turning the recent situation with Tony back to the earlier confrontation where his nose got bopped was a minor ah-ha moment

despite Will's seeming to blow it off.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Daddydavek

[Miles Long]

Thinking about the latest chapter, I am extremely glad to find that Will is finally seeing the larger picture on the issue of cheating. I also think that Doc A brought up some valid/insightful points about why his relationships with John and Ryan have been distant.

 

However, I do think that in John's case he's not that straight. It's not like Will is the only guy he has ever been with. John seems to be the sort of guy who likes to get off and if it can't be with a girl then a guy will do. He's young so I reserve the right to change my opinion but he seemed pretty happy to mess around with Will when he wasn't attached.

 

I hope Will will remember this and not find himself as a rebound should things go south for John's relationship (or Ryan's for that matter).

 

Unrelated to chapter 19...whatever happened to Alejandro? Why no toasted ravs on the epic St. Louis adventure? Are you saving them for Will's return to visit Mason?

[methodwriter85]

 

However, I do think that in John's case he's not that straight. It's not like Will is the only guy he has ever been with. John seems to be the sort of guy who likes to get off and if it can't be with a girl then a guy will do. He's young so I reserve the right to change my opinion but he seemed pretty happy to mess around with Will when he wasn't attached.

    That's basically how I read John's sexuality. There's Darius, who's straight as a board, and then there's John, who I'd call "straightish leaning towards bi." I think that since John has/had a girlfriend, and the people at Menlo basically know him as having a girlfriend/being straight, John doesn't really engage in that side of himself anymore...possibly because of the near-mess that he had with Will. It'd be too much trouble and too confusing to people if John suddenly started dating a guy, so he goes where his attraction is stronger to keep things simple.

 

    I do think Mark's doing a good job of showing how attitudes are changing regarding sexual orientation- I remember when Brad/Robbie/Max/Marcel, etc were the youth generation, you were either gay, or you were straight. Note that when Brad mused about the sexuality of his children in 1999, he thought either "gay", or "straight"..."bi" didn't even come up as a possibility. It's starting to get murkier, especially with characters like Gathan and with John.

 

     In any event though...John will look like this when he's college-aged. I'm hoping we will get some sexual encounters from John's p.o.v. by that time period, because damn, that kid is going to be sexy as hell.

 

     Anyway, I thought the Trevor Morgan thing was funny, because I actually thought he was pretty cute around that time period. Although around that time period, I was all about Josh Hartnett, David Boreanaz, and Nick Lachey.

 

    I'm also loving that Will is really getting what the difference between being in lust and being in love is. He's waaayyy ahead of most 25-year olds in that regard.

Edited July 5, 2013 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

    That's basically how I read John's sexuality. There's Darius, who's straight as a board, and then there's John, who I'd call "straightish leaning towards bi." I think that since John has/had a girlfriend, and the people at Menlo basically know him as having a girlfriend/being straight, John doesn't really engage in that side of himself anymore...possibly because of the near-mess that he had with Will. It'd be too much trouble and too confusing to people if John suddenly started dating a guy, so he goes where his attraction is stronger to keep things simple.

 Parenthetically, a fair number of technically bi people I know do this, including myself, simply because the binary point is a heck of lot easier to explain, even with people who should know better.. I'm basically gay, am out to my family and close confederates as being gay, but all that would lead to awkward conversations down the road if I do settle down with a woman, which I can't really rule out completely. At least it isn't as bad as when I was a teenager, and the split was a lot closer to 50/50. That was just annoying.

 

The last couple of paragraphs made me chuckle. Check Will out, being actually thinking about what his therapist said and applying it further.

[PrivateTim]

The latest chapter is a primer on what's going on in the mind of Will and how he is processing his experiences.

 

It provides insight into how Will is maturing and relating his experiences. The bit with the shrink turning the recent situation with Tony back to the earlier confrontation where his nose got bopped was a minor ah-ha moment

despite Will's seeming to blow it off.

 

I don't think it was a minor "ah-ha" moment for Will, I thought it was a monumental insight for him and I don't think Will blew it off as it crossed his mind during his encounter at the party.

 

 Parenthetically, a fair number of technically bi people I know do this, including myself, simply because the binary point is a heck of lot easier to explain, even with people who should know better.. I'm basically gay, am out to my family and close confederates as being gay, but all that would lead to awkward conversations down the road if I do settle down with a woman, which I can't really rule out completely. At least it isn't as bad as when I was a teenager, and the split was a lot closer to 50/50. That was just annoying.

 

The last couple of paragraphs made me chuckle. Check Will out, being actually thinking about what his therapist said and applying it further.

 

I think it is interesting that a fewer people self identify as bi than they do as gay, you'd think it would be the other way around.

 

I do think in LA gay cutlure it is very "uncool" to be bi. Guys who identify as bi either get grief upfront from their gay friends or get talked about when they leave. It seems a lot of gay men just can not concieve how anyone who likes guys could like women too.

[PrivateTim]

..

Hawaiian/Pacific Motif?  Post a pic or two, show me what you mean.

 

Still looking for the right pics, but Hawaiian/Pacific Motif would furniture of light woods, koa & teak vs daker woods and light colors, whites, light blues, earth tones.

 

I hate going in the faux elegant Versailles look in HI and overly ornate. It goes against the simple outlook of Hawaiian culture and life. It is also one reason I hate the Trump Waikiki. It feels like an NYC hotel. If you look at the pictures of the suites of the Four Seasons Hualala'i or Wailea or Halekulani Hotel, you get an idea of what I am talking about. I am not talking about fish nets and tiki's like La Mariana Sailing Club in Honolulu, it is only cool because it is one of the last, kitshcy tiki bars, but kitschy it is.

[methodwriter85]

One is they had much more than young teen experimentation thing going on and I could get if John was over the experimenting and completely straight, but the second school of thought is that I can't imagine any horny young teen passing up the opportunity for no risk fun.

 

     That's the thing though- it's not "no-risk" fun for John to mess around with Will. Will is his cousin, and they go to school together, and they're only a grade apart in a school that appears to be on the smaller side. Will has a big temper, and a tendency to blurt out things that people might not want to talk about. Will is also not exactly known for his discretion, either- is there anybody from that family who doesn't know that Will is engaging in some statutory with Jeff and Tony? And even though Will is different from last summer, I think John is still wary of the fact that Will basically had himself picking out china patterns for their future wedding. It's entirely possible that at some point during the Poor Man's Son Summer, Stefan took John aside and let him know that Will's feelings for him might not match his own. I think it makes total sense that John would not want to go down that road again with Will, because given their history I'd have a hard-time believing that John would think he could have no-strings attached fun with him.

 

 

I do think in LA gay cutlure it is very "uncool" to be bi. Guys who identify as bi either get grief upfront from their gay friends or get talked about when they leave. It seems a lot of gay men just can not concieve how anyone who likes guys could like women too.

 

 

   It was cool to be bisexual in the performing arts high school I went to, but only if you're a girl. For guys, you were either straight, or you were expected to be Carson Kressley from Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.

 

    Although around 2005-2007 I remember it became "cool" for emo guys to kiss other guys at parties, and then post it in videos on YouTube or on their Myspace accounts.

Edited July 5, 2013 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

     That's the thing though- it's not "no-risk" fun for John to mess around with Will. Will is his cousin, and they go to school together, and they're only a grade apart in a school that appears to be on the smaller side. Will has a big temper, and a tendency to blurt out things that people might not want to talk about. Will is also not exactly known for his discretion, either- is there anybody from that family who doesn't know that Will is engaging in some statutory with Jeff and Tony? And even though Will is different from last summer, I think John is still wary of the fact that Will basically had himself picking out china patterns for their future wedding. It's entirely possible that at some point during the Poor Man's Son Summer, Stefan took John aside and let him know that Will's feelings for him might not match his own. I think it makes total sense that John would not want to go down that road again with Will, because given their history I'd have a hard-time believing that John would think he could have no-strings attached fun with him.

That's an awful lot of higher level social-thinking from someone that has not really demonstrated that much awareness, at least the way you set it up. I have a hard time imagining John listening to Stef, or even Claire, if they'd taken him aside, and have a harder time imagining any of the parents in CAP thinking it would be a good idea, since they all seem to subscribe to the school of burnt hands. Although I suppose someone did take Will aside for a similar talk, so maybe I'm wrong there.

 

In any case, I don't think it would have taken that. The blow-up from Zach, and the loud way Will handled that, would probably have been enough to teach John to handle will with long tongs.

[methodwriter85]

 

In any case, I don't think it would have taken that. The blow-up from Zach, and the loud way Will handled that, would probably have been enough to teach John to handle will with long tongs.

    Right. The general point here is that John probably wouldn't view Will as a non-risk hook-up, because of their history together and because of Will's personality. It's true that Will's changed at least somewhat, but if I were John, I wouldn't risk getting on Will's bad side just to get him in bed. I'm sure John has this Abercrombie and Fitch polo with matching flip-flop collection that he doesn't want to find torched.

 

    It'd be funny though, if Will's ego took a slight ding if he found John messing around with another guy and realized that it's not about John not wanting to hook up with other guys, but about John not wanting to hook up with Will.

 

     Anyway, my idea that it's possible someone did have a talk with John is that Stefan basically had that talk with Will about how he can't go scorched earth on John because he's his cousn. Stefan probably isn't that close or perceptive of John to have had that kind of talk with him, but I think it's possible Stefan did, and that John might have listened to him. John isn't as mature as Will, but he's still depicted as being mature for his age, and I think John could have gotten it.

 

    But yeah, like you're saying, regardless of whether or not John got a head's up, John would have learned that a hook-up with Will would not be worth the grief that he could possibly get himself into. Will's bad side is NOT a place you want to be on, and unlike Tony, John can't hide himself away at school should Will become pissed at him.

Edited July 6, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mari]

I was intrigued by Will and Robbie's conversation about Will possibly being involved in Anders/Hayes in the future, at least board meeting-wise. I keep thinking Stef and Brad are going to expect Will to follow in their footsteps one day. I really see Will more as a prof of maybe marine biology?

[methodwriter85]

    I'm not so sure about that. JP never pressured Brad about going into the family business, and I can't see Brad pressuring Will to into his family footsteps. Darius is a good example of their parenting style- when he didn't go Ivy League like Brad or Robbie did, Brad didn't really care as long as Darius went to college. (It'd be interesting see how Brad reacts if/when JJ announces that he's not going to college in order to prepare for the 2006 Olympics.)

 

    The thing is that the business isn't really a local "family" business anymore- it's more like a national (possibly international) conglomerate being run by business associates, not family. So it's not a big deal for them if they don't follow in their foot-steps.

 

     It would be great though if Will does wind up a professor- it'd be kind of a full-circle deal.

Edited July 6, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

    I'm not so sure about that. JP never pressured Brad about going into the family business, and I can't see Brad pressuring Will to into his family footsteps. Darius is a good example of their parenting style- when he didn't go Ivy League like Brad or Robbie did, Brad didn't really care as long as Darius went to college. (It'd be interesting see how Brad reacts if/when JJ announces that he's not going to college in order to prepare for the 2006 Olympics.)

 

    The thing is that the business isn't really a local "family" business anymore- it's more like a national (possibly international) conglomerate being by business associates, not family. So it's not a big deal for them if they don't follow in their foot-steps.

 

     It would be great though if Will does wind up a professor- it'd be kind of a full-circle deal.

 

Actually, I think that JP did pressure Brad.  Review Man in Motion, when Robbie was in jail and Stef and JP were trying to convince Brad to move to Malibu.  JP is so subtle that even small comments can have a major impact on those people he's talking to.  

 

You're right about the family business thing, and in fact, that's usually a symptom of a company that has truly broken into the big league.  Family members aren't automatically enshrined in the key position.  I'm not sure where these companies are in that panoply, but I can see Will having a clear path, with no real pressure, to do his own thing.  

 

To be a professor, you should have a relatively logical mind and an objective approach to things.  That's why JP is so interested in Will, because as he watches Will grapple with the challenges life throws at him (and that he creates), he sees the hyper-emotional being that Will is fading, and thinks that Will may have that potential once he reaches a more mature state. 

[Mark M]

I saw this picture and Had to post it. It is great.

 

Otherwise I'm still kicking around and reading every chapter! Sending all the love Mark's way!! We the readers, love you

[methodwriter85]

 

It makes me feel rather old to think that 9-11 didn't directly impact people like you, but then again, that's not right. You have to deal with the world it left behind, of the constant paranoia that terror invokes. I remember the latent tension of fear during the Cold War, and wonder if today isn't really all that different, with terrorism instead of the Soviet Union as the big bad villain. And I wonder even more if we, as Americans, crave a big bad villain. And then I think about how much calmer our society was when we didn't have one of those (the 90's) and wonder if the big bad villain isn't bad just because he/it is a big bad villain

 

      It's interesting to think about. 9/11 directly impacted me because it happened when I was 15, and really becoming aware of the world. I think if I had been Tommy's age (he would have been about 9), it probably would have been a blurred childhood memory like the way the Oklahoma City bombing was, but 9/11 hit exactly at a very vivid time in my life- the teenage years, when all those hormones/emotions are surging through you.

 

     Here's an interesting article by the Huffington Post about how 9/11 shaped the Millenial generation:

 

Post-9/11 Generation: Millenials Reflect    

 

     I think when 9/11 happened, I was old enough to really internalize what happened, but not old enough like Mark to really work through the emotions of it. It's such a vivid day to me- my biggest worry that day was whether or not I'd get a part in our school's production of Arsenic and Old Lace. I remember finding out about it when I went to my computer applications class. A guy was talking about, and I (being a very young 15), asked if any of the people on the plane survived. He just gave me this look, and said, "A jumbo jet crashed into the World Trade Center. No one on the plane would have survived that." We spent that period looking up the information online and freaking out over all the mis-information...I posted about it on the I Hate Jen message board, and everyone thought I was making it up until it was on the news.

 

     Then school got cancelled, and I'll never forget looking up into the sky, and seeing that the big beautiful blue sky was eerily empty and quiet. Then going home and seeing that MTV had completely cancelled all programming in order to run videos that were themed around 9/11, and asking for Red Cross donations.

 

      This was a video that ran on MTV during that period...still gets me choked up now.

 

Edited July 9, 2013 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

The latest chapter was great.  It showed that some can forget their past and others can understand that even those that make bad choices sometimes do them for the right reasons. 

 

I love that Will so understands how what makes both Brad and to a lesser extent Stef tick.  What makes it even better is that Will seems to understand when to use this to his advantage and when to let it go. 

 

The fact that even after everything that happened Will trust JP to see what is happening with a balanced view says so much about both of them and their relationship.  I don't think we can ever really have another JP; Wade does come close but I am not sure that he has the ability to do some of what JP has done.  That being said, I do think that JP sees a side of Will that makes him believe that he maybe the future of the family in some ways. 

 

I have to wonder what the backstory with Kai is going to turn out to be.  I think that how Will and maybe the others handle that information is going to say a great deal about them. 

 

Now, as to some of the recent post; I could totally see Will as a professor especially in something like marine biology or enviromental studies.  However, how many people really know at fourteen what they truly want to do, my god, at fourteen I thought I wanted to be a lawyer...  Will is going to need time to come into what he is meant to be, that and the support of those around him. 

 

When family business get to a certain size; it often isn't possible to have them run just by family members.  Often, the following generations just don't have the passion or drive needed to keep them growing.  What is important is that enough members of each generation understands the business in a way to make sure the tenor of the company doesn't change in ways that it shouldn't and that the family is able to still benefit from the work of the earlier generations. 

 

Great work as always Mark, know you have given me something new to worry about; Kai's background...

[PrivateTim]

To expound upon a thought I had and mentioned in the reviews.

 

One thing that bugged me in the chapter and has always bugged me about 'mo's who are out, open and such is that they forget not everyone is. What if Steve were Kai's uncle or cousin and had no idea Kai had fooled around with guys? Will's, "by safe he means condoms" comment could have outed Kai to someone and Will has no idea what effect that could have on Kai's life. It was a very thoughtless comment.

 

In the same vein, something I've mentioned before, is that I've been out to eat with gay friends and we've a stunningly cute bus boy or waiter and one of the guys will ask someone else, another bus boy or waiter, "is XYZ gay?" If XYZ IS gay, it is almost like outing him in the restaurant and what if he didn't want to be outed? Couldn't be? And what if he isn't? It plants seeds in the restaurant that could impact the guy and all my idiot friend is thinking about is getting noodle wet and zero about what impact his words could have on the guy. (these are the same friends who can't put down the iPhone for an hour and keep checking grindr and jack'd the whole time we are eating)

 

I do think Kai is hustling and I think it is out of necessity and we'll find out why shortly.

 

I can't see Will as a professor. I think the job is too structured and confining for him. If he goes into marine biology I can see him doing independent research in the South Pacific on atolls that just happen to have great surf too. I had a good friend do that for three years in Rarotonga and then he moved onto Fiji. It was all funded by a foundation and Will could fund his own foundation.

 

But I see that as even temporary. I think Will enjoys challenges and eventually will get involved in one of the family businesses. Anders Hayes may be a smaller capitalization than Stef & Brad's company, but it has far more employees. The real estate and investment company probably has less than 100 people, maybe less than 50. The defense company isn't a family business and eventually Brad will hire someone to run that, especially after 9-11. So I can see Will being pulled to the investment side more than the entertainment side. Darius I can see enjoying the social asspects of the entertainment biz.

[methodwriter85]

   I think the only person I can see flat out not being involved in the family business at all, in any capacity, would be JJ. He very much strikes me as somebody who'd want to set up his own life, free of the family expectations and obligations, in an area that isn't anywhere close to the family base. Even if he got interested in acting, I don't think he'd hit up Robbie for connections- I see him toughing it out in New York City instead of the L.A. scene.

 

 

I find it so funny that Will is turning out to be so much more mature than Brad was at or near the same age.

 

    The biggest difference between Brad and Will is that Will doesn't care about having power over other people...he wants to control his own life, but not the lives of others. Brad in Be Rad pretty much treated his friends like they were his Chess pieces to move around, or they were his status symbols of how powerful he was at Gunn High. Will has never treated his friends like that, and he's never been one to fake friendship with people in order to further his social game.

Edited July 9, 2013 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

Don't forget that Isidore's construction company was or is one of the largest on the West Coast plus, JP's branch of the family still controls 15 percent or more of Crampton Construction, on of the largest construction companies in the US at least in the story...  I have to wonder if at some point Isidore's company wasn't merged in with Stef's real estate company but I don't every remember this being discussed.  You haven't heard about Isidore's company in any story since "The Land Whore" at least not that I can remember.  That being said it just didn't disolve did it?

 

I actually could see Will as a professor at least in Marine Biology or Enviromental Studies.  I actually know a tenured professor in both of these areas and neither are really structured.  Neither is a Department Chair, at that level you have to play way to many politics; but both of them really enjoy their teaching and research work.  They get to spend a great deal of time out of the classroom and neither seems to work in a structured enviroment, at least that I can tell.  I don't see Will being a professor in a mainline department but something offbeat that the rest of the school doesn't pay to much attention to would fit him well.  That being said, I think Tim could be right.  Will has the mind to work in the investment side of the family business.  The question that I would have is does he have the passion or desire?  I can't see Will doing anything he doesn't care about...

[Mark Arbour]

Just as a point of (possible) interest, I answered an interview question for the GA "Ask the Author" blog spot. 

[Mari]

I'm excited to see where this goes with Kai (hopefully not with being arrested for solicitation!) I miss Jeff and Will together though...

[B1ue]

He's going to tail Kai, isn't he?

 

Maybe he'll just hire a private detective. But, no, he'll do it himself, if the thought occurs to him at all.