9.11

[PrivateTim]

There's a persistent myth that having a child will inalterable change a person, over and above the perfectly normal change anyone goes through when they have to rearrange their life for new circumstances. The myth is told that it isn't having to reprioritize around something that is totally dependent on you and any fellow caregivers, or acknowledging you helped create something you cannot control, but that the act of becoming a parent itself confers some mystical change within you. This change is thought to be universal, both because people are frankly mentally lazy and most assume anything that happens to them will affect someone else the same way it did them, and because most that have this belief cannot imagine anyone who hasn't knelt at that altar could understand them.

 

I feel certain my word choice conveys adequately my feelings for such beliefs, but it is sincerely held by many, with a quite a lot of evidence and justification. Cody is just one that proves the universality of it is sometimes oversold.

 

I think that it was Bill Cosby who spoke extensively about "anyone can be a father, it takes someone special to be a parent", or words to that effect.

 

So far Cody is just Maddy's father, not a parent. He hasn't lived with her and his mother as a nuclear family unit. When you live with your child, your baby, and you just look at it, you look at its tiny, perfect hands, its tiny feet and chubby legs, when your hear the sounds and can start to recognize and distinguish the happy gurgles from mere gas, and so much more, yes it is mystical, magic, life altering transformation that nothing else can equal. Of course there are people who are not effected by their baby in transformative ways, but I think they are the exception, not the norm.

 

It is likely that there was some kind of agreement between Jeanine and Cody, but if Cody decides he wants custody of Maddy the agreement is probably not worth the paper it is written on. That doesn't mean he would get custody, it just means the court would throw out the agreement and start from scratch as to what was in the best interest of the child. Even if Cody were not awarded sole custody, it would be likely that he would get visitation.....  but that part is all idle speculation on "what ifs". I think Cody and the family will work out on their own what is best for Maddy and that Cody will turn out to be a good, even if absentee, father.

[PrivateTim]

It is amazing how sometimes your ardor for someone can cool after you've had sex with them the first time. I remember a girl I wanted so badly my junior year of high school that when we finally had "real sex" for the first time, I was pretty much over her and spent the next two months trying to figure out how to dump her.

 

Nice to see Cody taking an interest in Maddy, not surprised to see Frank not wanting to raise a one year old and I am looking forward to Will's going back to school.

[Daddydavek]

I actually think that Cody had to say something.  He is the father and they were all at table discussing his daughter almost as if he didn't have a say.  However, unlike Will's initial impression, I don't think there will be a custody battle.  

 

I further think, that while he will insist on joint custody, that he will pretty much leave the actual care and parenting to Isidore.    Frank's objection and concern will be smoothed over by Isidore as she seemed pleased at the suggestion that she take over the role as guardian.  Will and other members of the family can be involved as much as they want to be, but it will be at Escorial.  

 

We still have to get through the next few days and weeks including the memorials and as we have heard from Will's POV, he is taking it pretty hard and sees no way he will ever get over it and shares the same fears for his dad.  Losing one close person is hard to process. Losing multiple close family members, in a senseless act of terror is all but beyond the human mind to fathom.  Those various stages of grief will keep popping up for quite some time, not just for Will or Brad, but all of them.  And remember, the memorials will bring home the finality of the loss all over again. 

Edited September 26, 2013 by Daddydavek

[Mark Arbour]

It is amazing how sometimes your ardor for someone can cool after you've had sex with them the first time. I remember a girl I wanted so badly my junior year of high school that when we finally had "real sex" for the first time, I was pretty much over her and spent the next two months trying to figure out how to dump her.

 

 

 

Been there, done that. 

[centexhairysub]

                 

 

 

I just cannot even begin to tell you how well written, constructed, and plotted this chapter was; it fit so well into this story and just explained so much of what had been going on with several main characters.  Bravo Mark!!!

 

 

I truly never even saw this development with Marie coming at all; I find myself re-reading Mark's stories all the time and trying to decipher these little clues he leaved to help guide us in this journey but if he left a clue this was coming it was too obscure for me.  Marie developing a romantic love for Will just explains so much about her behaviour not just with Will but with Noah, John, and several others.  She developed these forbidden feeling and then had no one she could confide in or talk to about them.  I can completely see why she reacted the way she did in so many situations dealing with Will after she figured out how she felt. 

 

 

Imagine being a female and falling in love with your gay cousin, that has already been in a physical and romantic relationship with your younger brother.?!  How do you even begin to process those feeling and emotions?  Who could you possibly talk to and confide in; that is not a conversation you are going to have with your parents no matter what...  Then this tragedy occurs, not one that just involved you and the person you are in love with but one that pulls your whole extended family and even that nation into it.  At this point, Marie really had no one to talk to other than Will.  Until she dealt with him, she really could not talk to or engage anyone else in this matter.  I think that by talking with Will and explaining herself and yes, even sleeping with him; Marie has taken the first step to getting her life back in order.

 

 

I think that Tim and Mark are right, it is not unusual to become so wound up with your feeling for someone that the physical act of sex between you and the other person can often cause your feeling to lessen or dissipate significantly.  There are several reasons for this and they can vary; but in this case I think that between the confession and realizing that while the sex felt good that there was no "spark"; Marie now knows that this isn't something that makes sense in her life.  I don't think her feelings for Will are going to just disappear but as she works through them they will evolve into a type of love and connection that will make more sense in light of their interconnection with each other.

 

 

Claire's statement to Will is going to mean so much more to him as he works his way through the grieving process and even how he is going to relate to Marie in light of her announcement and their actions.  Claire really has always been there for Will, maybe more than Jeanine over the last several years and the issues that developed with her because of Marie's actions; clearly showed how important she is to Will. 

 

 

Glad that Cody finally actually said something about Madison; I don't think he will be willing to get into a battle with the whole family over the issue but I do think he is going to want his views and opinions heard and addressed.  Cody appears to be much closer to this group of people than his own biological family; I am not sure he would be willing to rupture those relationships to get a responsibility that he doesn't probably even want deep down. 

 

 

Isidore wasn't someone that I really thought of when we had discussed Madison's guardianship previously but it actually makes a great deal of sense.  Frank's issues will be dealt with.  It isn't like Isidore would be taking the sole physical responsibility for Madison, they will have at least two nannies probably.  Plus, there are so many others that will step in to help with her when needed.  This child will be loved...

 

 

Brad's point of view is going to be seen in the next chapter and I am really glad.  I am not sure he is even doing as well as Will thinks he is; Brad just seems to be moving as fast as he can so he doesn't have to face reality right now...  I am hoping that spending some time with Will surfing will help center him and help him to begin to process his emotions.

 

 

Mark, you have truly done an exceptional job with this story in the CAP saga.  The writing and plotting have just been seamless and superb.  A special shout out to those on your team that are helping to edit and assist and an extra shout out to Jeremy in regards to his song selections over the last few chapters...

[Mark Arbour]

 

                 

 

 

I just cannot even begin to tell you how well written, constructed, and plotted this chapter was; it fit so well into this story and just explained so much of what had been going on with several main characters.  Bravo Mark!!!

 

 

I truly never even saw this development with Marie coming at all; I find myself re-reading Mark's stories all the time and trying to decipher these little clues he leaved to help guide us in this journey but if he left a clue this was coming it was too obscure for me.  Marie developing a romantic love for Will just explains so much about her behaviour not just with Will but with Noah, John, and several others.  She developed these forbidden feeling and then had no one she could confide in or talk to about them.  I can completely see why she reacted the way she did in so many situations dealing with Will after she figured out how she felt. 

 

 

Imagine being a female and falling in love with your gay cousin, that has already been in a physical and romantic relationship with your younger brother.?!  How do you even begin to process those feeling and emotions?  Who could you possibly talk to and confide in; that is not a conversation you are going to have with your parents no matter what...  Then this tragedy occurs, not one that just involved you and the person you are in love with but one that pulls your whole extended family and even that nation into it.  At this point, Marie really had no one to talk to other than Will.  Until she dealt with him, she really could not talk to or engage anyone else in this matter.  I think that by talking with Will and explaining herself and yes, even sleeping with him; Marie has taken the first step to getting her life back in order.

 

 

I think that Tim and Mark are right, it is not unusual to become so wound up with your feeling for someone that the physical act of sex between you and the other person can often cause your feeling to lessen or dissipate significantly.  There are several reasons for this and they can vary; but in this case I think that between the confession and realizing that while the sex felt good that there was no "spark"; Marie now knows that this isn't something that makes sense in her life.  I don't think her feelings for Will are going to just disappear but as she works through them they will evolve into a type of love and connection that will make more sense in light of their interconnection with each other.

 

 

Claire's statement to Will is going to mean so much more to him as he works his way through the grieving process and even how he is going to relate to Marie in light of her announcement and their actions.  Claire really has always been there for Will, maybe more than Jeanine over the last several years and the issues that developed with her because of Marie's actions; clearly showed how important she is to Will. 

 

 

Glad that Cody finally actually said something about Madison; I don't think he will be willing to get into a battle with the whole family over the issue but I do think he is going to want his views and opinions heard and addressed.  Cody appears to be much closer to this group of people than his own biological family; I am not sure he would be willing to rupture those relationships to get a responsibility that he doesn't probably even want deep down. 

 

 

Isidore wasn't someone that I really thought of when we had discussed Madison's guardianship previously but it actually makes a great deal of sense.  Frank's issues will be dealt with.  It isn't like Isidore would be taking the sole physical responsibility for Madison, they will have at least two nannies probably.  Plus, there are so many others that will step in to help with her when needed.  This child will be loved...

 

 

Brad's point of view is going to be seen in the next chapter and I am really glad.  I am not sure he is even doing as well as Will thinks he is; Brad just seems to be moving as fast as he can so he doesn't have to face reality right now...  I am hoping that spending some time with Will surfing will help center him and help him to begin to process his emotions.

 

 

Mark, you have truly done an exceptional job with this story in the CAP saga.  The writing and plotting have just been seamless and superb.  A special shout out to those on your team that are helping to edit and assist and an extra shout out to Jeremy in regards to his song selections over the last few chapters...

 

Thanks for your comments.  That was a really nice post.  And I'd like to add my kudos to yours as regards Jeremy and his musical selections.  I'm still awestruck by how he handled Chapter 42.

[Daddydavek]

Mark asked an interesting question in one of his responses to a review of Chapter 43 wondering if everyone asking 'how you're doing' or,  'tell us what happened' is really helpful or harmful for a recovery.  

 

From my own experiences, (sitting in the front seat of the family car next to my father when he was killed in an auto accident when I was age 15 and later in my early twenties being involved in some fairly intense firefights in Vietnam) I can say that for me, I appreciated when people said "I'm here for you, if and when you ever want to talk about it."  I did not appreciate people thinking that I was obliged to tell them exactly how it all happened and what my feelings and reactions to it were.  It takes time and the amount of time is different for each individual. Understanding the grief process and what to be on the watch for was an invaluable gift from Nana and JP.  

 

I think Will's idea of going to the beach is also a really good idea.  Getting out and having a good work-out having fun surfing sounds like just what a good shrink would order.  

Edited September 27, 2013 by Daddydavek

[rjo]

How does one start, other than being shocked with Marie's revelation. So many times what we see as hate as really love. Aren't they the opposite sides of the same coin. Even though Claire and Brad were raised as brother and sister they are not related. Therefore Will and Marie are not cousins. Of course this family is not as much as family of blood but of relationships. To loss three members of your family at one time is horrible. Each person will grieve in his or her own way. To have this situation healed with help this family heal. The problems Jack and Claire have been having will soon end and the greater task will begin. Mark has shown us that Brad and Will are just making it from day to day. We must remember it has only been a few days. Feelings are still raw. I can only hope the surf will heal both Brad and Will. It is what they need, to focus they minds on something they love. To understand there is more to life than loss and sadness. To begin to live again if only for a few hours.

 

Should the family gather and tell their story?  Is it too soon? After my father died my mother broke down almost every week, my stepfather almost died after my mother died. Both of them dung down inside themselves and somehow went on. After Andre and Billy died, JP gave up on God. Tonto after losing both sons lived for her grandchildren. Remember Barry was a hollow shell. I can only hope that Brad, Will and the others have Tonto's strength. I think they do. Will is so strong. He is. He may not know it. But he is. He will need his family as will Brad to grieve and most importantly to begin to live again. It's that picking up and living again, something they must do.

Edited September 27, 2013 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

     I thought Marie's feelings getting confused for Will made a lot of sense- she's 15 and not the overly experienced sosphisticate she tries to come off as, Will is her not-biological cousin who looks like an 18-year old Abercrobie and Fitch model, and most importantly, Will being gay makes him someone safe to lust after. She took those feelings and got obsessed with a fantasy, while hating herself for it, and then when Marie actually manages to sate those feelings, she realizes that it's just a friendship that got muddled. Well-done.

 

   I guess I'm leaning on JJ to be the one who doesn't go all Flowers in the Attic on us. Everyone else in this generation has. Ella was Darius's third cousin or something, wasn't she? Because Brad mentioned something about how Jim Crampton was having sex with his niece, and since Ella's father is Rich Crampton and Rich is Jim's son while Darius is Bitty's son, that'd make them related, right? Or did they somehow escape actual incest?

[Carlos Hazday]

Hey, I think I know the way to really help Brad and Will recover and solidify their relationship. While at the beach have them surf, smoke and then fuck the heck out of each other...... 

[Mark Arbour]

     I thought Marie's feelings getting confused for Will made a lot of sense- she's 15 and not the overly experienced sosphisticate she tries to come off as, Will is her not-biological cousin who looks like an 18-year old Abercrobie and Fitch model, and most importantly, Will being gay makes him someone safe to lust after. She took those feelings and got obsessed with a fantasy, while hating herself for it, and then when Marie actually manages to sate those feelings, she realizes that it's just a friendship that got muddled. Well-done.

 

   I guess I'm leaning on JJ to be the one who doesn't go all Flowers in the Attic on us. Everyone else in this generation has. Ella was Darius's third cousin or something, wasn't she? Because Brad mentioned something about how Jim Crampton was having sex with his niece, and since Ella's father is Rich Crampton and Rich is Jim's son while Darius is Bitty's son, that'd make them related, right? Or did they somehow escape actual incest?

 

It's a pretty distant connection.  Darius' father was an unknown Iranian, while his mother (Bitty) is Billy Schluter's daughter, and Billy is half Schluter and half Crampton.  I think this is safe even by non-Mississippi rules. 

[centexhairysub]

I know it will not acutally happen but could I suggest that no one in this story have sex with anyone else other than a committed partner for the next month or two until they are on a stronger footing with themselves.  This would allow Matt and Wade, JP and Stef, Isidore and Frank, Ace and Cass, Max and Tim, Lou and Marcel, and Claire and Jack to have sex but no one else......  I think Brad, Darius, and Will should remain celibate for the next month at least...

[mmike1969]

Define celibate as it pertains to The World of CAP..,

[PrivateTim]

Define celibate as it pertains to The World of CAP..,

 

We will default to Clintonian Rule of Celibacy: If you are not lying down, it is not sex.

[Kitt]

Remember gang, Brad - and therefore Will- are not genetically part of the Crampton/Shulters.  Brad's "father of record" may be Billy Shulter, but his biological father was Carmichael.

 

That makes the Will/Marie liaison incest in name only.  That is acceptable even by Puritan standards.

 

And did i miss an affair somewhere?  Ella is Gaithan's sister, yes? A Hayes. Unless her mom was keeping company behind the drunkards back?

[Mark Arbour]

Remember gang, Brad - and therefore Will- are not genetically part of the Crampton/Shulters.  Brad's "father of record" may be Billy Shulter, but his biological father was Carmichael.

 

That makes the Will/Marie liaison incest in name only.  That is acceptable even by Puritan standards.

 

And did i miss an affair somewhere?  Ella is Gaithan's sister, yes? A Hayes. Unless her mom was keeping company behind the drunkards back?

We found out in Millenium that Ella's real father is Rich Crampton, and not Fred Hayes

[Kitt]

Dang - now I need to go back and update the family honeysuckle bush! It started as a family tree but got a little out of hand.

[Carlos Hazday]

Define celibate as it pertains to The World of CAP..,

LMAO you really think one of those boys is gonna keep it in his pants. Hell, just getting Will to bend over for just one guy a day is tough! 

 

I still ill say Brad and Will should fuck. I'd pay to watch that!

[Daddydavek]

Will has walked in several times while his father is getting pounded or doing the pounding and has been titillated by seeing it (Brad never seems to remember to lock a door!),

However, I don't think either Will or Brad or JJ and Brad and certainly not Darius and Brad will ever do the monkey dance together.  While Will may joke and make innuendos, that is about as far as he would go IMHO.  

 

I'm looking forward to an installment (hopefully tonight)  that gives us some insight into Brad's psyche and where he is mentally and emotionally.  Will's insistence that Brad see someone was sauce for the gander and very thoughtful.   

[Mark Arbour]

I know it will not acutally happen but could I suggest that no one in this story have sex with anyone else other than a committed partner for the next month or two until they are on a stronger footing with themselves.  This would allow Matt and Wade, JP and Stef, Isidore and Frank, Ace and Cass, Max and Tim, Lou and Marcel, and Claire and Jack to have sex but no one else......  I think Brad, Darius, and Will should remain celibate for the next month at least...

 

An interesting premise, but then, cannot sex be a wonderful healing tool? 

[Daddydavek]

An interesting premise, but then, cannot sex be a wonderful healing tool? 

 

What's so interesting about people withdrawing from relationships and intimacy and doing so because they are in mourning over family members who for the most part enjoyed life and their relationships?  Isolating and wallowing in depression and grief are good ways to self flagellate and may be tempting but they are not helpful in taking the baby steps required to go on with the business of living.  

[methodwriter85]

I get the device of the teacher, but at a school like Menlo, it is not only unlikely that any teacher would be unaware of what happened with one of their students, but that the school would have actually spoken with Will's teacher before school and other kids at Menlo who might have been effected

 

    As soon as I read that scene, I knew that your reaction would be along these lines. To be honest, I kind of had a hard time believing that a teacher would have been that callous, but..eh. Device and all.

 

     It really is incredible when you think about what Will's gone through during his tenure as narrator from July 2000 to September 2001. Only in a soap can someone go through what Will's gone through and not lose it.

Edited September 30, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Kitt]

   To be honest, I kind of had a hard time believing that a teacher would have been that callous,

I agree, the teacher was being extremely callous, but it does happen.  I remember very clearly a teacher talking about one girls unplanned pregnancy in high school in front of the class, telling her that he was not going to cut her any slack because of her condition. He did eventually lose his job over it. It did have the mentioned effect of having the entire school become aware of the situation in record time, but since she was trying to keep it quiet till summer break...

Edited October 1, 2013 by Kitt

[PrivateTim]

    As soon as I read that scene, I knew that your reaction would be along these lines. To be honest, I kind of had a hard time believing that a teacher would have been that callous, but..eh. Device and all.

 

I didn't see it as callous, but clueless. And yes, I don't think too many teachers at The Menlo School (or most top private schools in CA I know of) would be either, but that wasn't the point, this isn't a main character; it was someone who can drive the story in the right direction and get Will's story out in one fell swoop. As a literary device it was quite good. The author gets to have his poetic license.

[PrivateTim]

But the interesting part of the chapter was the issues between Brad and Robbie that we didn't know existed and maybe more to the point, Will didn't know existed.

 

Will in typical teen mode is so absorbed in his life that he doesn't think of the lives of his parents and the struggles they might be going through and how their actions towards him might be effected by what is happening in their lives. When I was a kid you never even really thought of your parents as being people, let alone human. They were just......  well parents. You didn't contemplate what drove and motivated them (until that first Psych 101 class freshman year when you came home over Christmas and psychoanalyzed everyone in the house including the cat's unconscious motivations) you just had these expectations of them to be perfect and not make mistakes and not to have fears and insecurities of their own.

 

I look forward to the tying up of loose ends, reconciliations and set-ups for the future.

 

Do we know if Ryan and Jeff have net yet?