9.11

[methodwriter85]

But Hughes wasn't a surprise. She wasn't someone who had had come from 6th & 7th to suddenly be Olympic Champion, she'd had a lot of solid medal in 2001 & 2002 leading up to the Olympics and was poised to move up from the bronze position, where she'd finished in the Grand Prix FInal, the last tune-up before the Olympics, should Kwan and Slutskaya falter. That they both choked was what was unusual, not Hughes move from 3rd to 1st.

 

Point being, she was the heir apparent to Kwan, but no one expected her to win in 2002, 2006 was supposed to be her year. After she won the Olympics in 2002, her interest waned in skating, after all what was left to accomplish?

 

 

Maybe you missed the Oslo chapters?

 

The 2002 Olympics are significant because Mitt Romney runs them and it gives Wade a chance to interact with Mitt, become charmed by him, and work on Mitt's ill-fated 2012 campaign. A trip to Salt Lake in 2002 would be a nice distraction for every one after the events of 9-11 and Stef could obsess about how good his figure looks in ski pants.

 

A lot of drama in CAP has gone on, in and around, ice rinks in the last two or three stories and they have been pivotal scenes and created pivotal situations. Without JJ's skating Jeanine might have been around more for Will and their wouldn't have been a meltdown, without JJ's skating there wouldn't have been the key scenes in Norway, their wouldn't have been the privy counsel meeting that Will was let in on where the decision to maybe off JJ's coach was made. All of those were important plot points and may crop up again in the future.

 

 

1. That's why we're working with Daisy to keep JJ's career plausible and make it possible that he COULD strike near a medal. JJ, barring his Norway Grand Prix , actually had a good 2000-2001 season. The 2001-2002 season is actually his first "senior" season...we're trying to put him at around Johnny Weir-level, which was promising but not dominant yet. (Evan Lyscacek was actually still skating as a junior this season, and he was going through a slump as well as having his Grand Prix season cancelled.) What happens during the 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 season are what really determines things, though.

 

2. I like your idea of the 2002 Olympics, but I honestly can't see Mark writing Mitt Romney in any kind of positive light. Mark also seems rather freaked out by Mormons.

 

3. That's a good way of summing up how figure skating has shaped the story even though we've only had a couple of chapters that took place directly in the skating world, and we've seen much more in terms of horseback reading, as Henson put it. The world drew in JJ, who drew in Jeanine and Tiffany, and Jeanine subsequently went from being a normal person to becoming a Stage Mother. The way that figure skating changed both JJ and Jeanine did drive a fair amount of story, especially in how they related to Will.

 

     I also think that without skating, JJ probably would have been really jealous of Will's popularity and ability to be good in nearly everything, and I could've seen them developing a Billy/Brad kind of relationship. But because JJ had something he could do better than Will ever could, that was averted.

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Would it be a real imposition on the community to ask for a JJ thread instead of constantly coming back around to the character in this one? As I said, I do like the character, but I really would like to see other aspects of the storyline. I said I wanted to talk about frank - well, how is he? What's his reaction to losing his son? Will he go overboard and do something over the top? How is Gathan? Is Matt going to meltdown?

 

Lots of aspects to the story, but it feels like it's the all JJ, all the time channel here.

 

Maybe I need a break.

[methodwriter85]

     Sorry about that. Good point. Frank is probably going to absolute shit. I hope Isidore is strong enough to keep him okay, but I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if Frank takes to the drink and dies of a broken heart before he's in his 70's. Frank really did invest everything into Robbie- and it paid in dividends, but only for 37 years.

 

     Gathan's a toss-up. I'm not sure I can see Gathan playing much of a factor here, because while Robbie was kind to him and the like, I didn't get the feeling that Gathan was all that close to Robbie. He seemed much into talking with Will, Stefan, and Brad.

 

      As for Matt, Matt's loss is great- but not quite as great as the others, because he still has a father. It'd be interesting to see if this draws Matt closer to his parents.

[Westie]

           As for Matt, Matt's loss is great- but not quite as great as the others, because he still has a father. It'd be interesting to see if this draws Matt closer to his parents.

 

I find it really interesting that you feel it so easy to "quantify" loss that way.  "losing relative A is not quite so bad because they still have relative B" completely ignores the emotional baggage that a bereavement causes.  One MIGHT argue for example, that if grief were to be measured in "lost moments" - those times your father will never see and all the things you wish you had done together - Matt would have an even greater loss than the others, because he and Robbie lost so much time together before they found each other.

[Sammy Blue]

   I wouldn't be surprised if Frank takes to the drink and dies of a broken heart before he's in his 70's.

 

I actually doubt that, it is what his own father did when his brother Aaron 'died'. Frank should know exactly what alcoholism can cause - even if it wouldn't change him in that way, he should be very careful when it comes to alcohol.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Sammy Blue

[Kitt]

I actually doubt that, it is what his own father did when his brother Aaron 'died'. Frank should know exactly what alcoholism can cause - even if it wouldn't change him in that way, he should be very careful when it comes to alcohol.

Or pre-disposed to doing the same thing. Alcoholism can run in families and needs to be guarded against to break the cycle just as children who are abused tend to grow up to be abusers themselves. It's not chiseled in stone to be that way but it can and does happen.

 

And yes perhaps we have seen more words on horses than on skating, but what we have seen there is what the horse world calls "hacking around". The competitive world is very much different.  The same goes for Brad and Will's surfing - they are out to enjoy themselves, not to compete. Again if competition were involved things would have evolved very differently. JJ IS a competitive skater and handles everything much differently than someone who is just skating for the enjoyment- even if we DO NOT see the day to day on the page. Would you say Matt and Wade are not serious about hockey because we haven't been to practice daily since Millennium?

 

I have to agree with Jeremy, Frank almost has to fall apart in the next few chapters. That's almost inevitable. But I can see Matt, who IS his grandson after all, being a key player in keeping him from hitting rock bottom, as well as the planned marriage to Isadore, and who knows what else Marks fertile little mind can come up with?

[B1ue]

Would it be a real imposition on the community to ask for a JJ thread instead of constantly coming back around to the character in this one? As I said, I do like the character, but I really would like to see other aspects of the storyline. I said I wanted to talk about frank - well, how is he? What's his reaction to losing his son? Will he go overboard and do something over the top? How is Gathan? Is Matt going to meltdown?

 

Lots of aspects to the story, but it feels like it's the all JJ, all the time channel here.

 

Maybe I need a break.

 

If you're interested in a topic, you could start talking about that topic by telling us why you are interested in it? What in the story caught your eye? Does the character have personal implications to you over and above what is represented in the narrative itself that you would not mind sharing?

 

It's fine to want a topic change, but the best way to change the topic is to actually move the discussion, not request someone else do it for you.

 

Personally, I don't find Frank to be an interesting character. His life sucks at the moment, but it's difficult for me to empathize with his character.

[Daddydavek]

My take on Frank is that he's been a little disengaged from the day to day travails of the family and is more involved with the day to day relationship with Isodore.  He is the one that didn't want Maddie dumped on her.  He is of an age that dealing with young adults, teenagers and little kids is ok for an hour or two but is too tiring for extended periods.   I do think that Robbies death devastated him as it did all of the family.   However, I get the impressions he is not one to share his grief publicly and perhaps not much even with the extended family.  Of course these are just my thoughts and Mark probably has a whole different scenario in mind or will concentrate on other characters and only incidentally portray Frank's as he processes his grief.  

 

Before we get there, I think though that the story shifts to Wade and his interactions with Ethan and that is what I foresee as being served up next.

[Carlos Hazday]

Hey Gene....

 

The topics around here are free flowing, we may be fixated on JJ for a bit but just wait a day and something else will come to the forefront. He just happens to be the flavor du jour. As B1ue suggested you can start something new. Just run a flag up the old pole and you'll get a lot of salutes. (Damn, that last line sounds kinky and hot lol)

[methodwriter85]

   Carlos is very right. A week ago, the speculation was all on Ethan, who we haven't even met.

 

   The thing is, we're speculating on characters because we find something interesting about their story that feels unresolved. Will's part of the story feels largely done, which is why we haven't talked about him as much lately. I could be wrong, but other than going through the grieving process- all of the major problems going on with Will like his relationships with Brad, Tony, and Marie- have pretty much been resolved for this story. It feels like for the most part, Will's story is now about just getting himself and his loved ones through their grief. Wade's a bit different, as it seems like his major issues are just about getting ready to ramp up as his fight with his mother and the introduction of a "new" sibling complicates his life plans. I'm also assuming that we're going to see more of Brad in upcoming chapters as he works through his grief, because as Mark has said, this story is going to go up to at least Thanksgiving 2001.

 

   Which brings me back to my musing on the role of the Hayes in CAP...have they been resolved as a core CAP family? Because Robbie's gone, Matt's a Carrswold, and I'd be shocked if Gathan became a narrator again. The Hayes "curse" has been lifted, and we gained an understanding of what happened to the Hayes family that unleashed a good 50+ years of suffering. Gathan seems like he'll step up and be a good family leader for the Hayes going into the 21st century. Most importantly, other than Gathan or Zach, none of the New Generation Hayes family really made much of an impression- just really small background characters. And it feels hard to imagine what else Mark could possibly do with the Hayes family.

 

     At the same time, it feels like the Danfield family is being ramped up- first just the immediate family, then the birth of a new heir, then the cousins, aunts, and uncles, and now we're getting into illegitimate heirs like Ethan while witnessing family tragedy like the death of its patriarch, which should have repercussions for a long time and serve a good decade of story.

 

    I think if that's what we're working towards, it makes a lot of sense. Having the Hayes as the blue-collar counterpoint to the wealthy Cramptons and Schluters made a lot of sense in a small city-set soap. But now that the Schluters have become international-level wealthy, they need a dramatic foil family that's on that kind of level. The Danfields were revealed in Paternity to be a lot more wealthy than I thought they were (like Bush-family level), plus they've described as having the kind of pedigree that makes the Kennedy's look like noveau-rich posers.

Edited October 30, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Carlos Hazday]

Great..... When Brad was first the center of the CAP world we got  B RAD..... Now that the new scion of the Danfield family is being placed in the spotlight, is the next installment WADE IN?

 

IN charge of his half brother; IN control of most of the trust funds; IN peace talks with his sister and IN a fight with his mother (anyone actually thinking that's not coming better start sharing the bottle!)

[Sammy Blue]

Great..... When Brad was first the center of the CAP world we got  B RAD..... Now that the new scion of the Danfield family is being placed in the spotlight, is the next installment WADE IN?

 

IN charge of his half brother; IN control of most of the trust funds; IN peace talks with his sister and IN a fight with his mother (anyone actually thinking that's not coming better start sharing the bottle!)

Oh my God, sorry, Carlos I mean, you just so made my day  :D

 

Maybe we should call it IN WADE though, then we can INWADE Afghanistan, too. And it would fit better to all the sex he has with Matt. :D

 

(Oook that was bad, but I can't help it x.x Damn freshmen parties/alcohol)

Edited October 30, 2013 by Sammy Blue

[PrivateTim]

I think people are selling Frank short. I don't think he is as fragile as some paint him.

 

I also find JJ interesting and he has gotten more interesting as Mark as revealed more of his inside voice.

[Carlos Hazday]

Sammy! Glad to see my bad puns made you laugh and reply in kind. Soon enough we'll have the crowd groaning and rolling their eyes every time they see a post from us !

[rjo]

I hope you are right, Tim. Frank has always been a gruff character, but there is not doubt he loved Robbie. As for JJ since the last revelations in the recent chapters we have seen the person behind the facade. Once we have gotten to know him better it is harder to dismiss him. If I am right he will turn 16 in December no longer needing a driver. I will tell you what I hope, first that he grows about 5 to 6 inches.(I have nothing against shorter people but I think JJ being shorter holds him back.) That way his family will not look at him and think he is still a little kid. Maybe that will give him the confidence to drop his bitchy personna. If he does that a lot of things will improve for him. No long will his brothers feel they have to look out for him. That will free him up eo be his own person, as Will would say. I for one would look forward to seeing a happy, yes maybe driven, young man come out of this horror of 9 11.

Edited October 31, 2013 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

 

If I am right he will turn 16 in December no longer needing a driver.

 

     That's actually something I'm wondering about- I know that circa 2003 in Delaware, you could get a permit at 15 years and 10 months, and an actual license at 16 and a half, but with restrictions, like you couldn't drive past a certain time and you couldn't have more than 1 or 2 passengers. According to a website I found, the California driving laws were changed in 2006...you could get a permit at 15 and a half and drive as long as you were with someone aged 25. At 16, you could get a restricted license- for the first year, you cannot drive between 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. and you cannot transport people under the age of 20 unless you're with an adult over 25, a guardian, or an instructor. (Man, that's harsh.)

 

    Although it's possible before that, JJ could've gotten a less restricted license- I wonder what the laws were before the change in 2006. Of course, Mark can just take artistic license and have JJ drive his cousins/teenage friends around. Although JJ strikes me as a compact Euro car type, not an SUV type.

 

    There was a general move in the 2000's about raising the driving age to 18- I know they slowly edged it up in Delaware- now you can't get a permit until you turn 16. In New Jersey, you can't get a permit until you're 17.

 

     In any event...it is totally going to bug Will that JJ and Marie are getting their licenses first, and he'll be one of the last guys in his grade to get his.

 

 

I also find JJ interesting and he has gotten more interesting as Mark as revealed more of his inside voice.

 

      I think in a couple of years, JJ will be an ideal Bret Easton Ellis novel character- gorgeous, rich, snobby, and bisexual.

 

      Does anyone here remember The Rules of Attraction? I LOVED that movie when I was 17. (And it wasn't that far-off from depicting what college is like.)

 

 

     I still have a crush on Ian Somerhalder because of that movie. God, he's beautiful. (Which is why he's the character model for Jack Hobart.)

 

 

I will tell you what I hope, first that he grows about 5 to 6 inches.(I have nothing against shorter people but I think JJ being shorter holds him back.) That way his family will not look at him and think he is still a little kid.

 

     I'm not sure JJ would want to be that tall. He might hope for 5'8" or 5'9" which would make him more average height, but 6 feet is kinda tall for a singles male figure skater. Extra height makes it harder to jump, and a shorter person can do them easier because of the lower center of gravity. Evan Lysacek being 6'1" makes him a rarity for singles male figure skaters.

Edited October 31, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Kitt]

 

 

    There was a general move in the 2000's about raising the driving age to 18- I know they slowly edged it up in Delaware- now you can't get a permit until you turn 16. In New Jersey, you can't get a permit until you're 17.

 

     

.

Actually in NJ right now you can get your permit at 16 and a provisional licence with restrictions similar to the ones you listed at 17. Restrictions on times and number of passengers are lifted at 18. Pictures are printed differently than the rest of the state until you are 21 at which time you get a full unrestricted licence that can serve as legal id.  When i was a kid you couldn't get your permit till 17 but that changed some time before my daughter got her licence.

[methodwriter85]

    I would imagine that California and New Jersey would have pretty strict driving laws, because both states are notorious for their heavily trafficked interstate highways, right? I read that in California, it's illegal to drive in the state with an out-of-state driver's license if you've been there longer than 10 days.

 

    Delaware's much more relaxed. We have a lot of traffic here, but it's not that insane. It's focused mainly around I-95 and the out-of-staters that come here to take advantage of the no-sales tax at Christiana Mall.

Edited November 1, 2013 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

California has a lot of weird rules which are muc different than most states. As for traffic LA is bad but most of the other parts of the state are not much different than other states.

[B1ue]

At the time in California (And I know this because I'm a bit under two years older than JJ and Will, and finally got around to getting my license at 17 in 2001), new drivers under 18 had a year of restricted driving privileges. Here is the relevant law for the time period:

 

Transport passengers under 20 years of age at any time, for the first six months.
Drive between midnight and 5 AM for the first 12 months.
Persons under 18 may not be employed to drive a motor vehicle. When you become 18, the provisional part of your license ends. You may continue to drive as an adult using your photo license, which will expire on your 5th birthday after the date you applied.

 

It seems to have gotten more restrictive since then, and you are unable to transport passengers on your own for a full year now. Curiously, this law would not seem to apply to Will, as an emancipated minor. Bet that's going to be annoying.

 

Also, then and now, you can apply for a leaner's permit at 15.5 and get a license at 16. Although, in my case, I did not get my permit until I was nearly 16. Just never got around to it.

[methodwriter85]

   The curfew post-2006 also got pushed back from 12 a.m. to 11 p.m. But yeah, thanks for the illumination- so JJ on his 16th birthday in December of 2001 could get his license, provided that he's been driving on permit since around June. Which is very possible, because JJ has a driver and Escorial probably has plenty of small backwoods roads he could practice. His license would allow him to drive by himself from 5 a.m. to 12 a.m., and he cannot drive with other teenagers until June of 2002, i.e. the end of sophomore year. So JJ could drive around his brother and his cousins during the summer of 2002. However, are you saying that because Will's an emancipated minor, Will could just get his license when he turns 16 in September 2002 without any restrictions? That's going to be annoying to JJ and Marie.

 

   Of course, like I said before, Mark could just invoke artistic license and have JJ drive around Will, Marie, and John if he wants to. Like how the O.C. had everyone driving at the age of 15. LOL. I'm really not sure I could see JJ doing that, though. JJ strikes me as someone who would get a small Euro compact car, and prefer to be by himself when he drives because he gets irritated easily.

 

    In my case, I didn't bother getting a license until I was 19 and about to finish high school(I was held back a year), so I didn't have to worry about graduated licenses. I'm scared shitless though about what happens if I move and I need to get a new license, because I've completely forgotten how to parallel park and Delaware licenses are supposedly one of the easiest to get.

[rjo]

Most states will honor your Delaware road test so you only have to take te written test.

[methodwriter85]

   Good to know. See, the way Delaware developed...Delaware was divided into "hundreds" more often than into towns. As a result, there are few downtown areas here, which means that there's much less parallel parking, because Delaware's hundreds developed into suburbs for Philadelphia with lots and lots of strip mall shopping centers with ample parking. It's actually funny- Delaware is so suburban that our state licenses list our housing developments instead of just towns, because our "towns" are often just Census designated places that happen to have a large collection of housing developments, like my "town" called Bear.

 

    The only place in Delaware where parallel parking is critical is in Wilmington, and I always take the bus into there. I've also never tried driving myself into Philly, so yeah- parallel parking was a skill I just never really had to use so I forgot it.

 

     It's interesting for me to learn all the different driving rules in states in any event.

[George Richard]

The drivers for the kids in the family seem to be as much for security as transportation. How much solo driving around is JJ going to be allowed to do? And he strikes me as someone who might prefer being driven to driving himself.

[rjo]

Compared to Will of course. I just thought of some thing: can you see Brad teaching these kids how to drive?

Edited November 1, 2013 by rjo