Flux

[Bucket1]

What has Alex done that is so awful? 

 

Seems to me that he met a single guy (Wade), developed some pretty strong feelings for him, but was nice enough to keep Matt in their relationship.  No matter what's happening at Escorial right now, having Matt available as a sexual partner is way more important to Wade than to Alex. 

 

The problem of taking people on an emotional roller coaster is that we get emotionally involved with the characters. To be fair to the troublesome lord, we really haven't heard his side of the story. All we have really seen is the turmoil that he has caused with Matt and Wade.  Wade was affected by his fog and treated Matt in a manner unbecoming our usually sensible Wade. Wade lost any sense of responsibility to Matt to JJ and Tiffany to Riley. His behaviour caused Matt to have a broken heart and if Will hadn't given Wade a good slap on the face who knows where we would be. 

 

Alex wasn't "nice enough to keep Matt in their relationship" for two reasons. Firstly Matt already has a well established relationship with Wade. As a wise man once said theirs is an old love. Secondly it turns out he didn't do it for Wade at all. He did it so he had a convenient bit of scruff or a whore in Matt. That was not Wade's understanding at all. 

 

Alex has serious issues. Those issues are hurting characters we care about. Of course we are biased - you made us that way 

[Mark Arbour]

The problem of taking people on an emotional roller coaster is that we get emotionally involved with the characters. To be fair to the troublesome lord, we really haven't heard his side of the story. All we have really seen is the turmoil that he has caused with Matt and Wade.  Wade was affected by his fog and treated Matt in a manner unbecoming our usually sensible Wade. Wade lost any sense of responsibility to Matt to JJ and Tiffany to Riley. His behaviour caused Matt to have a broken heart and if Will hadn't given Wade a good slap on the face who knows where we would be. 

 

Alex wasn't "nice enough to keep Matt in their relationship" for two reasons. Firstly Matt already has a well established relationship with Wade. As a wise man once said theirs is an old love. Secondly it turns out he didn't do it for Wade at all. He did it so he had a convenient bit of scruff or a whore in Matt. That was not Wade's understanding at all. 

 

Alex has serious issues. Those issues are hurting characters we care about. Of course we are biased - you made us that way 

 

You are suggesting I've created a monster?  Lol. 

 

Alex hasnt caused turmoil with Matt and Wade, they have.   And Alex can hardly be hel responsible for Wade's infatuation.   And we don't know whether Alex even has this complex, only that Matt and Wade think he does.  They're a bit biased. 

[Bucket1]

You are suggesting I've created a monster?  Lol. 

 

Alex hasnt caused turmoil with Matt and Wade, they have.   And Alex can hardly be hel responsible for Wade's infatuation.   And we don't know whether Alex even has this complex, only that Matt and Wade think he does.  They're a bit biased. 

 

Matt and Wade have contributed to the turmoil, absolutely. But I like them, and they have forgiven each other. So that just leaves Alex. (Add appropriate bias disclaimer here)

 

The "Alex fucking Matt" issue still needs to be addressed. While I accept that Matt, Wade and I are biased, Alex's remarks to Matt suggest that there is an underlying problem. We have not been presented with any evidence that it was agreed that Alex could fuck Matt. Only that Wade could make love to Matt. Wade is clearly troubled by this. There seems to be more at play here and while your amateur psychologists could be wrong I think most of us agree that Alex at best has serious baggage and at worst is a troubled lad. 

 

I find my own response to Alex interesting. He is the first CAP character that I found to be...distasteful. Given that we are talking about fictional characters I reserve the right to be completely and even sometimes unfairly biased. 

[Henson]

Do you guys know enough about Alex to hate him yet? I don't. I'm not even sure he's messed up. Maybe he's treating Wade the way he thinks he wants to be treated - with respect.

 

Alex has done nothing that even approaches the level of fucked-up-in-the-head that is normal for the Hayes family.

[impunity]

I don't think Alex has done anything egregious enough to warrant the proposed Zamboni treatment, but he does appear to have been somewhat manipulative and self serving. He's also been less than completely truthful with Wade, and kind of a dick to Matt.

[Bucket1]

I don't think Alex has done anything egregious enough to warrant the proposed Zamboni treatment, but he does appear to have been somewhat manipulative and self serving. He's also been less than completely truthful with Wade, and kind of a dick to Matt.

 

Ok, ok, I withdraw my Zamboni treatment (for now) - and I agree 100% with the rest of your post.

[Bucket1]

Do you guys know enough about Alex to hate him yet? I don't. I'm not even sure he's messed up. Maybe he's treating Wade the way he thinks he wants to be treated - with respect.

 

Alex has done nothing that even approaches the level of fucked-up-in-the-head that is normal for the Hayes family.

 

I did laugh about the comparison to the Hayes family - I'm glad I'm not related - but I must disagree about Alex only treating Wade with respect. The "respect" in the bedroom issue doesn't fit because Wade has asked for more and Alex has failed to deliver - he is capable of the kind of bedroom behaviour Wade has requested but he has deliberately withheld it. Secondly the "who can fuck Matt" issue doesn't seem to sit well with Wade either. His understanding was completely different to Alex's. And finally, respect for Wade should include respect for those Wade cares about - his comments to Matt seem to indicate that Alex is all about Alex. Although I have withdrawn my Zamboni suggestion Alex still makes me uncomfortable.

 

As I have mentioned in a number of my posts, we haven't heard much of Alex's POV. So in all fairness my opinion is still subject to change but he better have a good story. The possibility of Alex as a narrator for the next chapter scares me a bit. On the other hand, at the end of 9.11 I was torn about Matt being a narrator and Flux has still managed to engage me (hook, line and sinker).

[Headstall]

I feel like I should stay away from this discussion because when my emotions run this high I usually say the wrong thing...but bear with me. Since the introduction of Alex, there has been a lot of pain and grief and anguish(and that includes some of us readers). I agree that you can't blame Alex for Wade's infatuation...at least not entirely. From what Mark has given us, some misrepresentation has been going on in what Alex has presented to Wade and that is life. It takes a while to really get to know someone.Hopefully that person doesn't withhold things that are important from you, but it does happen, and in this case, it appears that it did. From the beginning it has been stressed how much Wade and Alex have in common (they are twins, don't you know). Well, it turns out in my eyes, that all they really have in common is their social cachet or status. From what we have been given lately, Wade is nothing like Alex. I won't go in to this too deeply other than to say that there are some very obvious differences. I have already posted that I don't think Alex is evil...he is just a guy...which has become the point...he IS just a guy...with possible issues and baggage.But he is certainly proving so far that he doesn't warrant any special adulation that he was given initially.No pedestal for him  .. Do I resent him? Yes. Do I like him? No. Do I trust him? Not a chance! No matter how he is further presented,I can't see my feelings changing. If something is going to be rammed down my throat, I at least want to enjoy it ,and while I know that no one is intentionally doing that, it is how I have come to feel about the whole Alex thing. The best thing about Alex is that, to me, he has actually become the catalyst in allowing Matt and Wade to rediscover each other. I love that Mark descibes their love as an "old love" and in a reply to a review, said that Wade has begun to realize how deep the bond between him and Matt is. That may not have happened without the introduction of Alex. I have many times thought back to the conversation with Brad where Wade says he wants a solid ,monogamous relationship with no drama...I really felt for Wade in that moment...and I think that is what Alex represented to him...and from what we have been allowed to see,with Alex it is a bit of smoke and mirrors and not at all what Wade is REALLY looking for. The irony lays in that the reality of Alex could wake Wade up to what is right in front of him. One other thing about how we are supposed to look at Alex. What would anyone think about someone who flew across the ocean to be with his "partner"...initiates agressive sex with Matt immediately, fucks him twice after that (yet talks down to him and treats him like a "nasty whore") and has yet to even poke his head in the door to see, or even phone Wade. Is that what Wade has been looking for? Would it be acceptable if was your partner? Cheers all...Gary

 

Note: nasty was Wade's word

Edited July 28, 2014 by Headstall

[Timothy M.]

I am speculating again but it could be as simple as...The fact is they discussed this, and Will is not supposed to be in Claremont, so Zach could jump to the conclusion that something is wrong. As far as telling Will beforehand...maybe it is something that Zach wanted to talk to Will about face to face

 

I'm guessing most of Zach's alarm comes from the unexpected meeting and his instant fear that Will will get angry without waiting for an explanation. Depending on Will's reaction Zach could be outed or embarrassed in a way he'd never forgive Will.

I'm hoping Will is clever enough to just turn his back and walk away. This would force Zach to make the first move and he'd have nothing to hold against Will in return. But I fear Will being will rapidly turn into Will getting and then to him erupting which will cause us to go

 

Oh and Alex is not intentionally just fucked up and selfish. It's almost symbolic how Wade got rid of the infatuation by his guts out.

[Mark Arbour]

I'm guessing most of Zach's alarm comes from the unexpected meeting and his instant fear that Will will get angry without waiting for an explanation. Depending on Will's reaction Zach could be outed or embarrassed in a way he'd never forgive Will.

I'm hoping Will is clever enough to just turn his back and walk away. This would force Zach to make the first move and he'd have nothing to hold against Will in return. But I fear Will being will rapidly turn into Will getting and then to him erupting which will cause us to go

 

Oh and Alex is not intentionally just fucked up and selfish. It's almost symbolic how Wade got rid of the infatuation by his guts out.

 

I'm nominating you for King of Emoticons!

[Timothy M.]

I'm nominating you for King of Emoticons!

 

               

[Never Surrender]

I feel like I am possibly in a minority of people, but I honestly don't think Alex has done anything wrong?

 

Sure, Wade wanted more and Alex didn't deliver to him but did to Matt. Sex is sex, and if the attraction and desire to do something isn't there, it just isn't there. Just because he is capable of doing something, doesn't mean he should have to do it? Sure, being a caring and considerate lover is great, but sometimes life just doesn't work out like that. I have ended up in what seems to be a partially similar situation in real life in the past (what can I say, I was an easy college student... oops) if everything is taken at face value. Guy A was great, Guy B was great, Guy A and Guy B were good friends so talked a lot, but even though I liked A better and I knew that doing xyz would set him off, the reason I COULDN'T do it was because I liked him so much, and it would have pushed me majorly out of a comfort zone to do something like that to a guy that I cared about. I had no problems doing it to B, however, because I didn't see him as anything more than my bit of fun (this is sounding worse and worse...) This didn't mean that I was malicious or evil or manipulative, just that we were sexually incompatible.

 

In case we hadn't noticed, CAP and Escorial doesn't seem to be brimming with purity and clean, straight laced morals. I just feel like if we are going to slam Alex for this when we know little about the situation and his reasoning, we are going to have to do a lot more slamming of situations that we have actual evidential proof of people being twats in.

 

I would also like to note that my 'dont jump to conclusions or judge too quickly' stance doesn't extend to Zach. He can take a hike

Edited July 28, 2014 by Never Surrender

[Irritable1]

I'm wondering, Mark, if Alex's problem is partly in the way he talks.  He's extremely formal at times, almost like something out of historical fiction. Even the royal princes don't talk like that in their interviews.  So lord-loving readers may feel like he's a modern guy but kind of pompous and hence phony. And non-lord-loving readers may be triggered into a subliminal fear that he's NOT a modern guy and will get Matt in the family way and then abandon him in the workhouse. Edit: I'm an unattached reader, but his scenes set my teeth on edge, and I can't pin it down as due to anything else.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Irritable1

[Bucket1]

I'm wondering, Mark, if Alex's problem is partly in the way he talks.  He's extremely formal at times, almost like something out of historical fiction. Even the royal princes don't talk like that in their interviews.  So lord-loving readers may feel like he's a modern guy but kind of pompous and hence phony. And non-lord-loving readers may be triggered into a subliminal fear that he's NOT a modern guy and will get Matt in the family way and then abandon him in the workhouse. Edit: I'm an unattached reader, but his scenes set my teeth on edge, and I can't pin it down as due to anything else.

 

I think that if Alex gets Matt preggers then Mark's stories move into a whole new genre 

[Irritable1]

I think that if Alex gets Matt preggers then Mark's stories move into a whole new genre 

 

Not arguing that it's a rational fear. It'd be one of those fictional archetype thingies. The mustache-twirling aristocratic cad. 

[Bucket1]

Not arguing that it's a rational fear. It'd be one of those fictional archetype thingies. The mustache-twirling aristocratic cad. 

 

That image is now stuck in my head   Alex the moustache-twirling cad (insert evil laughter) with Wade trapped on the railway tracks and Matt riding in to save him just in the nick of time. 

[Irritable1]

Except he shouldn't be riding in his condition 

 

But really, I haven't been reading CAP long enough to be fond of anyone but Robbie, and yet I totally hate Alex. It's bizarre.

[Bucket1]

Except he shouldn't be riding in his condition 

 

But really, I haven't been reading CAP long enough to be fond of anyone but Robbie, and yet I totally hate Alex. It's bizarre.

 

Don't worry about Matt - he would be riding side-saddle on one of the gentler steads

[Headstall]

I'm wondering, Mark, if Alex's problem is partly in the way he talks.  He's extremely formal at times, almost like something out of historical fiction. Even the royal princes don't talk like that in their interviews.  So lord-loving readers may feel like he's a modern guy but kind of pompous and hence phony. And non-lord-loving readers may be triggered into a subliminal fear that he's NOT a modern guy and will get Matt in the family way and then abandon him in the workhouse. Edit: I'm an unattached reader, but his scenes set my teeth on edge, and I can't pin it down as due to anything else.

I can appreciate this thoughtful post but I don't think it is that simple. I keep trying to leave this alone but Mark has asked the question a couple of times about what Alex has done wrong and has expressed his opinion about him. It seems like we are supposed to like Alex and I for one, can't seem to get there. One of the most important exchanges in the last chapter, which really affect how I feel about Alex, is this. "I will reflect on my decision to keep you in my relationship with Wade, and I suspect I will think it is one of my better choices." How are we supposed to feel about this. This is Alex talking to Matt after fucking him...the guy that he knows was hurt terribly by Alex and Wade being together and it is not how he says it, but what he says. He knows what Matt suffered because Wade told him this yet he is telling Matt it was HIS decision to keep him around(this is not what Wade said or thinks) and tells him I(capitalized) will think it is one of MY better CHOICES. So this says that all the power is in Alex's hands in what he describes as MY RELATIONSHIP with Wade. And yes, he is in a relationship with Wade (which according to Wade is supposed to be exclusive with the exception of Wade being able to have sex with Matt to aid their frienship through this) and Matt and Wade are not supposedly together, but Alex obliterates that fact with saying it is His decision "to keep you in my relationship with Wade". So can someone tell me how it is ok to talk to Matt like this? Is Alex insensitive, oblivious,callous, conniving, is he sending a message to the whore, or is it something different? IF Alex decides it is " one of my better choices" it is because he finds Matt a good fuck and has nothing whatsoever to do with Wade...you know ...the guy down the hall he hasn't talked to yet. Sorry for getting this involved in the question of Alex, but I am only reacting to the words I have read, and have found it impossible to like him...I will admit to being biased too.

[Kitt]

 Is Alex insensitive, oblivious,callous, conniving, is he sending a message to the whore, or is it something different?

Maybe it is a little bit of all of the above?

[Irritable1]

 

 

 IF Alex decides it is " one of my better choices" it is because he finds Matt a good fuck and has nothing whatsoever to do with Wade...you know ...the guy down the hall he hasn't talked to yet.

 

Oh sure, but I hated him before any of that happened. I thought most readers did.

[impunity]

And non-lord-loving readers may be triggered into a subliminal fear that he's NOT a modern guy and will get Matt in the family way and then abandon him in the workhouse.

This made me laugh. A lot.

[Bucket1]

One of the most important exchanges in the last chapter, which really affect how I feel about Alex, is this. "I will reflect on my decision to keep you in my relationship with Wade, and I suspect I will think it is one of my better choices." How are we supposed to feel about this. This is Alex talking to Matt after fucking him...the guy that he knows was hurt terribly by Alex and Wade being together and it is not how he says it, but what he says. He knows what Matt suffered because Wade told him this yet he is telling Matt it was HIS decision to keep him around(this is not what Wade said or thinks) and tells him I(capitalized) will think it is one of MY better CHOICES. So this says that all the power is in Alex's hands in what he describes as MY RELATIONSHIP with Wade. And yes, he is in a relationship with Wade (which according to Wade is supposed to be exclusive with the exception of Wade being able to have sex with Matt to aid their frienship through this) and Matt and Wade are not supposedly together, but Alex obliterates that fact with saying it is His decision "to keep you in my relationship with Wade". 

 

There was so much in your post that I wanted to support but I will limit myself to the point above. Alex and Wade have clear and significant differences in their understanding of their relationship. Alex seems to assume that he has all the control. This is not about partnership. While Alex could have some influence, he does not define the relationship between Matt and Wade.

 

What happens when Alex decides that Matt is no longer flavour of the month? When Alex moves on to his next whore/s? Is Wade supposed to dump Matt? Cut off all ties? Now that's a conversation I want to see. 

[Mark Arbour]

I can appreciate this thoughtful post but I don't think it is that simple. I keep trying to leave this alone but Mark has asked the question a couple of times about what Alex has done wrong and has expressed his opinion about him. It seems like we are supposed to like Alex and I for one, can't seem to get there. One of the most important exchanges in the last chapter, which really affect how I feel about Alex, is this. "I will reflect on my decision to keep you in my relationship with Wade, and I suspect I will think it is one of my better choices." How are we supposed to feel about this. This is Alex talking to Matt after fucking him...the guy that he knows was hurt terribly by Alex and Wade being together and it is not how he says it, but what he says. He knows what Matt suffered because Wade told him this yet he is telling Matt it was HIS decision to keep him around(this is not what Wade said or thinks) and tells him I(capitalized) will think it is one of MY better CHOICES. So this says that all the power is in Alex's hands in what he describes as MY RELATIONSHIP with Wade. And yes, he is in a relationship with Wade (which according to Wade is supposed to be exclusive with the exception of Wade being able to have sex with Matt to aid their frienship through this) and Matt and Wade are not supposedly together, but Alex obliterates that fact with saying it is His decision "to keep you in my relationship with Wade". So can someone tell me how it is ok to talk to Matt like this? Is Alex insensitive, oblivious,callous, conniving, is he sending a message to the whore, or is it something different? IF Alex decides it is " one of my better choices" it is because he finds Matt a good fuck and has nothing whatsoever to do with Wade...you know ...the guy down the hall he hasn't talked to yet. Sorry for getting this involved in the question of Alex, but I am only reacting to the words I have read, and have found it impossible to like him...I will admit to being biased too.

 

I think that Alex does, in fact, have control of this situation.  He and Wade made a pact to be sexually involved only with each other with one exception:  Matt.  As Wade explained it, that was Alex's offering to Wade to make it easier for him, something Wade probably thought of as a gift.  Alex could have reasonably said "no" and demanded a monogamous relationship, and I have to believe that Wade would have agreed to that, at least initially.  It is interesting that Alex and Wade both have very different interpretations of Matt's inclusion in their relationship. 

 

As relationships stand right now, Wade and Alex are in a committed relationship, while Wade and Matt are merely friends with benefits.  In that regard, I can see why Alex would see Matt as being involved in Alex's relationship with Wade.  And while the statement may have offended Matt, if he had taken it in a less personal vein, he may have interpreted Alex's words as indicating he was happy with their situation (with him, Wade, and Matt). 

 

There was so much in your post that I wanted to support but I will limit myself to the point above. Alex and Wade have clear and significant differences in their understanding of their relationship. Alex seems to assume that he has all the control. This is not about partnership. While Alex could have some influence, he does not define the relationship between Matt and Wade.

 

What happens when Alex decides that Matt is no longer flavour of the month? When Alex moves on to his next whore/s? Is Wade supposed to dump Matt? Cut off all ties? Now that's a conversation I want to see. 

 

You have made a lot of assumptions here, and I would suggest one of them is erroneous.  You have assumed that Alex does in fact have a Madonna-whore complex, and that may be correct.  But you have also assumed that Alex is lying to Wade when he says he won't sleep with anyone else but Matt, and I've seen nothing to indicate that Alex is that dishonorable. 

Edited July 29, 2014 by Mark Arbour

[B1ue]

I feel like I am possibly in a minority of people, but I honestly don't think Alex has done anything wrong?

 

Sure, Wade wanted more and Alex didn't deliver to him but did to Matt. Sex is sex, and if the attraction and desire to do something isn't there, it just isn't there. Just because he is capable of doing something, doesn't mean he should have to do it? Sure, being a caring and considerate lover is great, but sometimes life just doesn't work out like that. I have ended up in what seems to be a partially similar situation in real life in the past (what can I say, I was an easy college student... oops) if everything is taken at face value. Guy A was great, Guy B was great, Guy A and Guy B were good friends so talked a lot, but even though I liked A better and I knew that doing xyz would set him off, the reason I COULDN'T do it was because I liked him so much, and it would have pushed me majorly out of a comfort zone to do something like that to a guy that I cared about. I had no problems doing it to B, however, because I didn't see him as anything more than my bit of fun (this is sounding worse and worse...) This didn't mean that I was malicious or evil or manipulative, just that we were sexually incompatible.

 

In case we hadn't noticed, CAP and Escorial doesn't seem to be brimming with purity and clean, straight laced morals. I just feel like if we are going to slam Alex for this when we know little about the situation and his reasoning, we are going to have to do a lot more slamming of situations that we have actual evidential proof of people being twats in.

 

I would also like to note that my 'dont jump to conclusions or judge too quickly' stance doesn't extend to Zach. He can take a hike

I couldn't decide which part to quote and say "Yes, good," to, so I just took it all.

 

For myself, I wonder what's going on with Alex, but I don't hate him because he's beautiful. It is possible that people hate him because he's getting in the way of Wade and Matt riding off into the sunset together. It may not matter what exactly he does, he'll still be a jerk simply for existing, being desired, and wanting a relationship either or both of the "main" characters. It's a phenomenon I've only ever noticed applied to female characters, but there's a first time for everything.

 

You know, this story is providing me a pretext to get an awful lot more use out of the English degree than I ever thought I'd use.