For The Love

[C James]

The only question I've got is when did the word 'wither' get introduced... :ranger:

 

Oops!!! That was in the feedback request, and so was added AFTER it was posted, and thus AFTER Emoe, my editor, had worked on it. Fixed now!

 

Heh, I sometimes make minor changes after Emoe has edited, which is why I add the line in the editing credit "all remaining errors mine alone".

 

BTW, everyone, as I mention in the credits, Emoe not only edited and advised, but thoguht up the title! (I'd been stumped).

 

Thank you Emoe!!!

 

I enjoyed reading the prolog and the first chapter, and I can

[Graeme]

I can't comment on some of the issues you raised, because Emoe, my editor, is mean and will hurt me if I give hints. :2hands:

He's not the only one. I've heard of readers who have threatened to hunt down any author who gave out spoilers. Now, I'm a nice echidna, so I won't do that, but I'll warn you that my spines are sharp.....

 

Graeme

[C James]

He's not the only one. I've heard of readers who have threatened to hunt down any author who gave out spoilers. Now, I'm a nice echidna, so I won't do that, but I'll warn you that my spines are sharp.....

 

Graeme

 

I make it my policy to never offend an Echidna, so, between you and the mean Emoe, I'll keep my mouth shut and not say a word!

[C James]

Chapter two is now up https://www.gayauthors.org/eficiton/viewsto...0&chapter=3

 

Please let me know what you thing, good or bad.

:ranger:

[Graeme]

Chapter two is now up https://www.gayauthors.org/eficiton/viewsto...0&chapter=3

 

Please let me know what you thing, good or bad.

:ranger:

I thing it was pretty good. It's a cliche for best friends to turn out to be both gay and in love with each other, but I don't mind it. I'm a romantic, after all. It was an obvious direction for the story to go. Now it's a challenge for you to put some originality into it.

 

I'm concerned about the car, though. Is it going to get jealous?

 

As for Eric, I suppose I'm going to have to wait at least ANOTHER week before I find out what happens there.

 

I felt Steve's muscles tense as he pulled me into a tight embrace as our tongues met and our kiss deepened. I could feel Steve's muscles tense, I could even feel his heartbeat, as I drank in the taste, feel, and smell of him. The subtle scent of Dial soap and Old Spice filled my nostrils, and the room itself seemed to take on a golden glow. I was in heaven, wondering whether it was all a dream.

 

One book I read on creative writing said to trying to include as many senses as reasonable in your description. I read this and smiled at how well you've done.

 

Graeme

[DarkShadow]

I know I'm a little late for the discussion, but I think I can still redeem myself .

 

For the most part, I noticed an EXPONENTIAL growth to a problem (or you can take as just something that bothered me XD) I saw in the prologue: you are introducing too many things and people, but this time it's not a structure problem... it's the entire chapter. I felt overwhelmed at the amount of information thrown at me, and really wanted to stop and take a break to think things over(yes, I'm melodramatic like that) after the friend introductions.

 

To me, it really seems like the climax was reached too early in the story *cough*firstchapter*cough* and unless you have something extremely exciting later on, it'll probably detract from the 'entertainment' value. The fact that he came out to the one he loves would definitely not have been the climax if the plotline was different, but the way that you're introducing everything--him being closeted, having told only ONE person before in his life, and having to befriend people who would most likely turn on him had Steven not been gay, which seems a little cliche to me (as Graeme said)-- makes it seem like that would've been a suitable climax in a later stage of your story.

Birds

P.S.

 

keep in mind that I still like this story... I just have to believe it a little more

 

OUCH!! Damn boy leave some meat for the vultures!

 

First... It is not fair to say that the story climaxes too soon until you have read it in it

[C James]

I thing it was pretty good.

Now you see why Emoe has such a hard job!!! :ranger:

 

It's a cliche for best friends to turn out to be both gay and in love with each other, but I don't mind it. I'm a romantic, after all. It was an obvious direction for the story to go. Now it's a challenge for you to put some originality into it.

 

I was concerned about the cliche aspect too. I probably shouldn't have used the term "best freinds" as they have only known each other a few months.

 

I hope you will find it original, and I think the next few chapters will help in that regard.

 

I'm concerned about the car, though. Is it going to get jealous?

 

I can't tell you, becuase then Emoe would hurt me!

 

As for Eric, I suppose I'm going to have to wait at least ANOTHER week before I find out what happens there.

One book I read on creative writing said to trying to include as many senses as reasonable in your description. I read this and smiled at how well you've done.

 

Thanks!!! I make use of that technique in quite a few future chapters. As for Eric, what? do you mean you are expecting him to re-appear in the story?

 

Well, I surely shouldn't give clues, like mentioning that the title of Chapter 3 is "Get the Rope..." so I won't....

 

Thanks Graeme!!

 

I know I'm a little late for the discussion, but I think I can still redeem myself

 

For the most part, I noticed an EXPONENTIAL growth to a problem (or you can take as just something that bothered me XD) I saw in the prologue: you are introducing too many things and people, but this time it's not a structure problem... it's the entire chapter. I felt overwhelmed at the amount of information thrown at me, and really wanted to stop and take a break to think things over(yes, I'm melodramatic like that) after the friend introductions.

 

uhoh. Well, I think you have a point there. The honest truth is that I put those freinds intros there instead of later for two reasons: So they weren't just "out of the blue" later on, and also to add some bulk to a very skinny chapter, and also to give a bit more background on why Chris felt he stood to lose everything if he was outed (and not all has been said on that, yet.).

 

The good news is that I think that problem is (I hope) over, but please let me know if you still see in in Ch 3 or later.

 

I should note here that although quite a few chapters are written, I can still change them prior to posting (or even after for minor things), so I can make immediate use (as well as future writing use) of criticisms.

 

To me, it really seems like the climax was reached too early in the story *cough*firstchapter*cough* and unless you have something extremely exciting later on, it'll probably detract from the 'entertainment' value. The fact that he came out to the one he loves would definitely not have been the climax if the plotline was different, but the way that you're introducing everything--him being closeted, having told only ONE person before in his life, and having to befriend people who would most likely turn on him had Steven not been gay, which seems a little cliche to me (as Graeme said)-- makes it seem like that would've been a suitable climax in a later stage of your story.

Birds

P.S.

 

keep in mind that I still like this story... I just have to believe it a little more

 

I didn't want this to be a story about their coming out or getting together, so what you are seeing right now is more of a stage-setting and character development section. I certainly agree that having the climax in chapter one or two would be a horrible idea!! Well, not unless I plan on having them sit around and watching the grass grow for the next 30 chapters...

 

Thanks Birds!!!

[shadowgod]

Leave it up to CJ to get us all posting more

First, I agree on the climax side of things with DS,

 

If this story took place over the span of a week, CJ started it on Wednesday instead of the usual Monday. Events in the characters life from the previous two days will surely still be effecting his actions on this day. Maybe the use of the prologue to fill in the gaps of the missing time was a misstep leading to this general timeline confusion. :wacko:

 

Secondly, I dont think birds comments were too way out of wack, just providing his take on the information provided so far.

 

All I can say if the story starts with this big a bang....

and I can't say anything else, CJ promised no one would find me if I did....

 

Steve

 

I was late to the party again....

[DarkShadow]

That's why I said 'to me'. CJ has posted on several occassions that he WANTS criticism, and I'm providing it for something that to me, as a reader, would probably lead me away from a story. I've mentioned time and again that I like his style of writing, and the plotline of this particular story really does appeal to me; I'm just pointing out something that I think needs to be adressed. Perhaps a PM next time? ;D.

 

In NO way am I trying to undermine his ability as a writer, the purpose and consequence of his story, nor do I ever intend to do so. If you look at my post again, I'm just setting up hypothetical situations for the things he's already set up in the story. I'm just trying to warn him about what I would probably look away from. I'm not necessarily trying to protect him (I'm not his mother) but I am saying what I would like other to point out to me.

 

I'll be glad to add the positive comments (which certainly outdo the SUGGESTIONS) if this bothers CJ... nevermind, I'll just add the positive anyways ;D.

 

Birds

 

I guess what I was wondering... well any writer wonders... is what exactly might you change? Which sentence or paragraph... what led you away or might lead you to ignore any (and specifically this) story.

 

You give great criticism... but it seems vague. What specifically would you change?

 

We all get criticism... it's the best thing we can hope for, because it teaches us the most. What I'm curious about.. is what specifically brought about the criticism. Was it an over all feel, or specific places or events?

 

What events brought about your feelings of 'over exposure'. You know... that kind of thing. Or was it simply culumlative and just kinda popped your brains?

 

I don't want you to think I'm trying to be confrontational, I just figure... if you're getting good criticism... we might as well hope to hear on how to fix it. You know?

[Graeme]

I wasn't going to jump in on this, but a certain reclusive goat keeps calling me a postaholic so I supposed I'd better try to live up to the reputation....

 

For the most part, I noticed an EXPONENTIAL growth to a problem (or you can take as just something that bothered me XD) I saw in the prologue: you are introducing too many things and people, but this time it's not a structure problem... it's the entire chapter. I felt overwhelmed at the amount of information thrown at me, and really wanted to stop and take a break to think things over(yes, I'm melodramatic like that) after the friend introductions.

I agree, to some extent. I didn't see a reason for the friend introductions at that point, but I didn't say anything because it was possible that they would become relevant soon afterwards. However, chapter two doesn't mention them at all, so I think that the introductions could've been moved to another point. Maybe mention them by name, but I'm not sure it was worthwhile going bang, bang, bang with a mention and short section of each one.

 

Introducing characters and settings is a major error-prone area for a new writer. I know I made major mistakes in this respect when I started, and I'm still not sure I've got it right with my latest story.

 

To me, it really seems like the climax was reached too early in the story *cough*firstchapter*cough* and unless you have something extremely exciting later on, it'll probably detract from the 'entertainment' value. The fact that he came out to the one he loves would definitely not have been the climax if the plotline was different, but the way that you're introducing everything--him being closeted, having told only ONE person before in his life, and having to befriend people who would most likely turn on him had Steven not been gay, which seems a little cliche to me (as Graeme said)-- makes it seem like that would've been a suitable climax in a later stage of your story.

This is trickier. I think I have come down on DarkShadow on this one. The prologue and chapter one were tense, and then chapter two is more relaxed. If the story maintains the flavour of chapter one, then this is a legitimate concern, but if it goes back to the tension of chapter one then it just means we're in for a rollercoaster ride.

 

In almost every story I can think of there are fast, action-packed chapters, and slower, recovery chapters. Between them they lead the reader up to a conclusion. How to pace things is difficult to describe, so we have to trust to the author's judgement on this. It may be he has it slightly wrong, but until we see the rest of the story we can't be sure. He may have it spot on, or has even (hopefully not) made the start of the story too bland for the rest (*fingers crossed that this isn't the case, because I don't think I'd be able to handle it*).

 

Edit: I've just noticed your comment about it being a possible turn-off for a new reader and why. I have to agree with you there. Chapter two doesn't provide any indication that it's not going to be "just another best friends become lovers" story. I'm trusting C James that it won't be, but maybe some sort of hint in chapter two would've helped.

[DarkShadow]

I wasn't going to jump in on this, but a certain reclusive goat keeps calling me a postaholic so I supposed I'd better try to live up to the reputation....

I agree, to some extent. I didn't see a reason for the friend introductions at that point, but I didn't say anything because it was possible that they would become relevant soon afterwards. However, chapter two doesn't mention them at all, so I think that the introductions could've been moved to another point. Maybe mention them by name, but I'm not sure it was worthwhile going bang, bang, bang with a mention and short section of each one.

 

Introducing characters and settings is a major error-prone area for a new writer. I know I made major mistakes in this respect when I started, and I'm still not sure I've got it right with my latest story.

This is trickier. I think I have come down on DarkShadow on this one. The prologue and chapter one were tense, and then chapter two is more relaxed. If the story maintains the flavour of chapter one, then this is a legitimate concern, but if it goes back to the tension of chapter one then it just means we're in for a rollercoaster ride.

 

In almost every story I can think of there are fast, action-packed chapters, and slower, recovery chapters. Between them they lead the reader up to a conclusion. How to pace things is difficult to describe, so we have to trust to the author's judgement on this. It may be he has it slightly wrong, but until we see the rest of the story we can't be sure. He may have it spot on, or has even (hopefully not) made the start of the story too bland for the rest (*fingers crossed that this isn't the case, because I don't think I'd be able to handle it*).

 

Edit: I've just noticed your comment about it being a possible turn-off for a new reader and why. I have to agree with you there. Chapter two doesn't provide any indication that it's not going to be "just another best friends become lovers" story. I'm trusting C James that it won't be, but maybe some sort of hint in chapter two would've helped.

 

It's a hard lesson to learn when to let the reader take a breath. We eager beavers want to keep them enthralled and breathless with every word... when in reality... even that can wear out a mind.

 

Sometimes we slap you in the head with information so it's easier for us to continue in future chapters. Then we can say... well my god... we explained that 6 chapters ago! Well... who remembers that long ago.

 

Bird gives great criticism... I guess what we all strive for is ... well... we know what's wrong now... how should we fix it?

 

Those answers aren't that easy some times.

 

Yes... you did come down on me before about this kind of thing lol.... but you were gentle How did you word that... 'YOU SUCK' Just Kidding! lol we all know you would never do such a thing.... You've all never been anything but helpful.

 

Like I said above... if we're getting great criticism.. we might as well maximize it. Get the most from it we can. Than again... goats are thick skinned... someone get the ball peen hammer... we'll beat it in!

 

Love you all... didn't mean to cause a stir... just wanted more info!

 

Take care!

[C James]

First... It is not fair to say that the story climaxes too soon until you have read it in it

Edited November 15, 2006 by C James

[Graeme]

C James, there's another thing that I've raised with you in a PM, but I thought I'd mention in public now.

 

You are writing a STORY -- not a serial novel where readers MUST wait before the next chapter is due out. The ONLY time they have to wait is while the story is in the progress of being posted/written.

 

There is NOTHING wrong with posting several chapters, or even the entire story, at once. If you are writing on the assumption that the readers will have to wait between chapters, then you're doing yourself an injustice because a large percentage of readers will simply go onto the next chapter because they'll be reading the story AFTER it has been finished. (I'm assuming you'll be leaving it here after it's finished, for new members to find).

[C James]

C James, there's another thing that I've raised with you in a PM, but I thought I'd mention in public now.

 

You are writing a STORY -- not a serial novel where readers MUST wait before the next chapter is due out. The ONLY time they have to wait is while the story is in the progress of being posted/written.

 

There is NOTHING wrong with posting several chapters, or even the entire story, at once. If you are writing on the assumption that the readers will have to wait between chapters, then you're doing yourself an injustice because a large percentage of readers will simply go onto the next chapter because they'll be reading the story AFTER it has been finished. (I'm assuming you'll be leaving it here after it's finished, for new members to find).

 

The only thing I've done (I think) that is dependant upon the "wait" factor for full effectiveness is a few cliffhangers (mainly due to where I decided to break the chapters). However, a lot of authors use cliffhangers, so I feel OK doing that.

 

I think (and hope) that reading it stright through will give a good effect. The reason I'm doing weekly posts is that I only have half a dozen (including what is posted) edited and ready to post. If I get further ahead I wil speed up the posting rate, but I need the buffer as delays may occur. Also, I am using the critisisim received to make changes to future chapters, so it is helping. At the moment, my beta reader hasn';t even seen chapter 6 (the seventh chapter due to the prologue) yet so I really can't speed up posting at the moment.

[Matthew]

So, I'm obviously coming into this discussion late, but I really like the story and wanted to comment. I like the story so far, but I agree with those who think a reader might see it as a dark story climaxing too early. But I trust you CJ!

 

I really liked the being in love with the car, even though my limited knowledge leaves me with no idea of what he's describing.

 

A line in the prologue really bugged me: "I

Edited November 15, 2006 by Matthew

[C James]

So, I'm obviously coming into this discussion late, but I really like the story and wanted to comment. I like the story so far, but I agree with those who think a reader might see it as a dark story climaxing too early. But I trust you CJ!

 

I really liked the being in love with the car, even though my limited knowledge leaves me with no idea of what he's describing.

 

A line in the prologue really bugged me: "I

[Xiao_Chun]

I was surprised and happy with this chapter. I suspected that Steve was gay, but I was very surprised to see Chris and Steve confessing their love to each other at this early stage. At the same time I was happy that the story is not about their struggle to come out to each other and not about Steve

[Graeme]

I am really glad that the issues which are clich

[C James]

I was surprised and happy with this chapter. I suspected that Steve was gay, but I was very surprised to see Chris and Steve confessing their love to each other at this early stage. At the same time I was happy that the story is not about their struggle to come out to each other and not about Steve

[Xiao_Chun]

I will give a teaser here: The title of the next chapter is "Get the Rope...". Anyone want to speculate on what that means?

 

My first thought was: they are going to hang Eric, a lynch.

 

But seriously, I think that Steve and Chris will tie him up and play some prank on him to scare him to death and teach him a lesson. Maybe they'll put Eric in the trunk and drive to some deserted place.

 

I have some other ideas for a prank that involve a rope, but they are too sick to mention here.

 

Hugs,

Michael.

[Graeme]

My first thought was: they are going to hang Eric, a lynch.

 

But seriously, I think that Steve and Chris will tie him up and play some prank on him to scare him to death and teach him a lesson. Maybe they'll put Eric in the trunk and drive to some deserted place.

 

I have some other ideas for a prank that involve a rope, but they are too sick to mention here.

 

Hugs,

Michael.

My first thought was the same, but I doubt C James will be that obvious. Another possibility is that Eric tells everyone he's been threatening to tell, and THEY are the ones getting the rope to lynch Steve and Chris. In either case we're assuming the title has something to do with what has been revealed so far. It's quite possible it refers to something that is only revealed in the next chapter.

 

Speculation is fun, but I think I'll wait and see what the goat regurgulates next week....

[EMoe57]

I can take no credit for the title. My wonderful editor, Emoe, thoguht it up, but he hasn't seen most of the story.

I proffered that title after reading the Prologue and 5 chapters. I suggested several but that is the one CJ jumped on. Only CJ has a clue where this story is headed

[Graeme]

If anybody would know, it would be CJ!

I know what his response to that will be. Something along the lines of "that's because as an experienced lurker, I've seen all sorts of postaholics."

[DarkShadow]

My first thought was: they are going to hang Eric, a lynch.

 

But seriously, I think that Steve and Chris will tie him up and play some prank on him to scare him to death and teach him a lesson. Maybe they'll put Eric in the trunk and drive to some deserted place.

 

I have some other ideas for a prank that involve a rope, but they are too sick to mention here.

 

Hugs,

Michael.

 

Erotic is a feather.. Sick, is when you use the whole bird. Heheh.... I trust the Goat not to go too far into the realm of obscurity.

[C James]

My first thought was the same, but I doubt C James will be that obvious. Another possibility is that Eric tells everyone he's been threatening to tell, and THEY are the ones getting the rope to lynch Steve and Chris. In either case we're assuming the title has something to do with what has been revealed so far. It's quite possible it refers to something that is only revealed in the next chapter.

 

Speculation is fun, but I think I'll wait and see what the goat regurgulates next week....

 

Regurgulates?!?!!

That's a new one!

 

OK, I'll give another spoiler for the next chapter: it contains words.

 

I proffered that title after reading the Prologue and 5 chapters. I suggested several but that is the one CJ jumped on. Only CJ has a clue where this story is headed