AFriendlyFace

Yeah, actually Bristol doesn't look that fresh either! Poor baby seems to have missed out on parents altogether and gone straight to grandparents Oh well, everyone knows grandparents are the ones who spoil the child anyway! Well I did suspect -Kevin

Thanks for the info, Celia! Just as a reminder, while I don't think a general discussion of the film is inappropriate here, please do let's avoid allowing the discussion to get too political or heated; let's save that for the Soap Box threads

Hey Mark No, that wasn't what I meant at all. Sorry for the confusion. I was actually only referring to the fact that at least WriteByMyself's fifth friend - the one who didn't overtly support his being gay - wasn't being hostile to him or the issue of sexuality. Those are indeed really complicated issues! I'm a pretty outspoken proponent of full gay rights, but my position evolved gradually over years, and will probably evolve still further. I could be wrong, but I suspect your stance on these issues might change or develop over time too. I don't mean that to imply that your positions aren't sophisticated or developed now either. I think that it's natural and positive for people's positions to evolve as they continually reexamine the issues and their feelings and thoughts on them. I think that continual reevaluation is good. It's stagnation of thought and a refusal to listen to other points of view with a fresh ear that I find troubling. Eh, just me and my thoughts though Oh Mark, I'm so sorry. I know you said you're doing fine, and I'm sure you are (you certainly seem well-adjusted), but that must have been very difficult nonetheless and it sucks that you and your parents were in those difficult circumstances. Bipolar disorder is a very sad and difficult condition. Through my own very limited experience with people who have it I can readily identify with how tempting it is to try to close yourself off from them so that they can hurt your feelings or make you feel sad with their sadness. However, in my own experiences with such people at least, that emotional separation from those around you is tough, and it's really a no-win situation. I couldn't imagine having to go through that with one of my own parents, and it's even so much sadder because of what ultimately happened. I'm so sorry for the paint that must have caused and I'm even more impressed by you resilience and strength. Aww, how sad Don't blame yourself though, and don't let your dad blame himself either. Bipolar disorder can be extremely confounding to the people around the victim and remember that it's always easier to see the warning signs in retrospect than whilst in the moment. In the moment, it's difficult to get the perspective necessary to take a fresh look and it's only natural and expected that instead people tend to adjust and just focus on coping with the situation on a daily basis. I'm sure you and your dad both did your best just to get through it. Well, I can definitely see how you'd be a bit sad that you never got the opportunity to show her the full and real you. However, at the same time, it sounds like your identity as a gay person wasn't even fully worked out at the time, and your actual manifestation of being a gay person and leading a gay life certainly hadn't begun. So it sounds like she knew the expression of you and your identity that was most relevant at the time. Yeah, it sucks that you've had to deal with that. Of course it isn't his fault, nor was it your mother's, but it's definitely understandable that you'd feel like the situation is/wasn't fair; it really wasn't. I think everyone deserves to grow up in a healthy home without having to worry about their parents' health. It's really sad that for some people that isn't a reality. Well, then despite generally encouraging GLBT people to come out as much as possible, I'd actually advise you to keep waiting awhile longer. You definitely shouldn't do anything that would threaten your safety or security (even if that security is of an educational/financial aspect as opposed to a physical type). It also sounds like you have your hands full dealing with stuff as it is. So please don't come out if you don't feel ready or feel like you're in any sort of potentially precarious state! (and conversely let me add: please do come out as soon as you do feel ready and are assured of a safe and stable future without physical, educational/financial, or severe emotional consequences). Thanks for sharing that with us. It really gave me alot to think about! And yeah, sorry about the mix up with the hostile thing, as I said I meant that for writebymyself's situation. I am certainly always opposed to someone denying who they are. Except of course with the exceptions I mentioned above of being in a precarious situation and feeling uncertain about the consequences or generally not being ready. LOL! I know what you mean there! When I was in my early to mid-teens I was just plain sexual, no prefix (homo, hetero, bi, etc.) needed. LOL, actually I'm still just plain sexual, but the urgency has diminished enough for me to pause and reflect on it a bit more. Take care, dude Have a great day all! -Kevin

Interesting, I was just having this conversation with some friends the other night. Krista's definition is more or less similar to my own. Though I'm iffy on whether or not I consider oral sex to be full out sex. Basically, I don't, but I'm fine with other people considering it as such. I would probably qualify it as *oral* sex and not just say "sex". However I think all of that is mostly irrelevant because: Exactly! Basically, as far as I'm concerned to me sex in the strictest sense is anal or vaginal. Obviously that's not exactly "fair" to lesbians for example though. Does that mean I think all lesbians are virgins? Of course not! I think sex itself is pretty relative. For me other sexual contact isn't considered full out sex, but that doesn't mean I have a problem with other people classifying it as such. I would say that things like oral, rimming, frottage, mutual masturbation, etc. is a form of sex, and is sexual contact, but I wouldn't say it's actually sex. Does that mean that I think I (or someone else with a similar definition) could 'find a loophole' in a relationship by only engaging in these activities and avoiding the ones I consider full out sex? NO, not at all. Because personally I define fidelity and monogamy as avoiding any sexual activities with someone other than your partner. The above are certainly sexual activities even if they aren't "sex". That said, I actually think something like making out is a "sexual activity" though certainly not "sex" and certainly not on the same level as those other "secondary sexual activities" ('secondary' by my definition). I do think it's ludicrous for someone to define making out/kissing as "sex" and I couldn't really get behind that definition, even for other people, but I do consider it sexual in general. Therefore, I personally would consider making out/sexual kissing to be "cheating". However, on a side note, I think fidelity and monogamy are similarly relative and subjective. I define them in a fairly strict way which precludes any sexual contact. However, I would be completely fine with intense emotional experiences with other people, which to many would be more threatening than the sex. I thus understand that some couples may choose to define their concept of monogamy such that it could include acceptance of any and all outside sexual contact, but may preclude any intense emotional experiences. That's fine, it's all about the people in the relationship figuring out what will make them both feel happy and fulfilled as a couple and as individuals and then honouring that agreement. Anyway, getting back to the primary subject at hand, I guess I really think that sex can be defined subjectively by each individual/couple as any sexual activity they like, as long as that activity is indeed "sexual" and can theoretically and reasonably be expected to lead to orgasm if it persists and heightens. I don't think the people involved need to necessarily actually climax, but I think the theoretical, reasonable potential should exist.

I totally agree! Or "wood" to the "gay" (clearly that gets you banned as well). I agree with Robbie. They have the right to ban her because it's in their rules and they have the right to make those rules. However, it sounds like the rules are stupid and unfair. Woo hoo!!! Here's a great example of when taking a stance can make a powerful difference! I'm delighted and glad that Microsoft has the sense and humility to rethink their policy. -Kevin

Perhaps this is unrelated, but while being gossipy, that Levi looks old enough to be her father! In fact I literally thought he was her father when I clicked the link and saw that picture of them. I was thinking it was a picture of Bristol and her dad. I know he's only 19, but he doesn't look a day under 35.

Oddly enough, I think substituting "child" for "possessions' almost makes sense, and speaks the truth, in the above paragraph as well. Put simply, I think having a child can help or relationship, or it can make things much worse. Similarly, the parents can bond over the common parenting experience, and spend their time doting on the child, and driving it [crazy]. But of course the child would just be a catalyst and not the true reason a relationship worked or didn't work

Glad everything is okay now! LOL, judging by that picture I saw of them in the other thread, they certainly looked like the friendly, accepting sort ( ) Sometimes people need time to process what they've been told. Hopefully it all works out in the end, and it's great that the other four people were very supportive. I completely agree with agree Graeme. Sometimes it does just take people a little while to process things. At the same time though, I'd also like to mention that if you let him, he really might pretend you'd never said it. That's also human nature when someone doesn't know how to deal with things. Now that you have said it, be casual about it, but keep it "on the table" so to speak. You don't have to "throw it in his face" every five minutes, but I do recommend making appropriate references etc. when sexuality/dating/relationships/gay issues comes up. If you're able to show him that it's something you're comfortable with, something you're willing to discuss casually, and generally something you feel positively about, then there's a good chance he'll take that cue and treat it more casually himself. That's just my advice though; take it with a grain of salt Anyway four out of five people is great and it's a big plus that the fifth person isn't being hostile about it at least Take care all, Kevin

Well I don't know, but if it comes along twice send the extra one my way Tim! That sounds like a really good deal I got rid of them for you

Actually I did enjoy their music, thanks I was just thinking "gee, that's something I'd hate to step on if I were a giant." My typical weekend: Friday night: unwind, possibly go to sleep early, otherwise go out. Saturday day: wake up around noon, stay in bed for a couple of hours reading, go to my favourite cafe' for a late lunch with whatever random assortment of friends wish to accompany me. Go shopping, or possibly catch up on housework. Saturday night: Go bar/club hopping with friends. Sunday day: Sleep late, have brunch at one of my favourite restaurants, go for a walk, rollerblading, or to the gym. Sunday evening: bum around and do some hardcore chillin'. Of course I might have other plans on any given day, but in the absence of anything specific that's more or less my general weekend routine.

Awww! Neville has quite an inquisitive look Snowy really looks like she's smiling in those pictures! Oh my gosh! Hadrian is one seriously cute pup! Aww, what an adorable dog, looks very much like a little person.

Great pics, you guys

Have a very happy and special birthday!

To kiss it would seem Billy's got good taste; nothing's hotter than the son of a preacher man It's the underwater thing that I'm incredulous over. How did you open your mouth the water rushing in? How did you manage to keep holding your breath while kissing? Eh, it doesn't all seem physically possible, but then I can't swim so what do I know? *shrug*

Wow! I would have to say that of all the responses so far I agree with yours the most, Robbie! In fact I pretty much completely agree with what you've said

Sounds like a good policy to me. Similar to the one I employ actually I think the best time to have sex is when both people feel ready and want to. I think that's true if they've been seeing each other for 5 minutes or 5 decades. When they're both ready and it will be a positive experience for both, then that is the time. The thing to remember of course is that precautions must be taken, no pressuring must occur, and both people must be comfortable with what's going on

You're right; that does make sense. Well, perhaps I don't hold dates in high enough esteem. I would say that would be more true of like special dates. Anniversaries, birthdays, holidays, that sort of thing. A typical sort of date though I think is different. In fact these are the sorts of things where I think it would be good for two of the three to spend time one on one. Of course all three together on a date makes sense too, but I don't think it should be like that every time.

Nah, I didn't start kissing until I came out of the closet A few cliche' but perhaps unorthodox places that I've kissed: a bathroom stall, on top of a pool table, in a car. Hmm, I think that's about it as far as salacious places go.

Welcome to the forum, Jerry!

I'm so sorry that happened to you LOL, on a complete side note - totally unrelated to issues of privacy or secrecy within a relationship - as someone who might be calling or texting one or both of you, I find that pretty annoying. Not that I myself would specifically be calling or texting either of you, but in general I don't like it when couples I'm friends with do this. One of my oldest and dearest friends used to have a girlfriend who would frequently answer her phone, log on to her AIM (this was way back in the day when I used to chat), and respond to her text messages. I hated that! It would drive me completely crazy. It's not that I didn't like her girlfriend, in fact now that they've been broken up for several years I have more nice things to say about her than she does, nor is it that I was trying to get my friend to keep secrets from her. It was simply that when I dialed my friend's number or messaged her screen name she was the one I wanted to communicate with. I have a couple of other lesbian friends with whom I'm equally close who also do this a little bit from time to time. It doesn't bother me as much since I have a close friendship with both and since in all honesty if I call one and don't get her I generally try the other one anyway, but nevertheless on a few occasions it has annoyed me. Occasionally I've felt specifically like having a conversation with one of them. Since I am friends with both, that means that I can't really immediately say, "oh hey, can you put her on the phone for me?" without first having a chat with the other one. I mean I can and it wouldn't be a problem, but it feels rude to me and makes me feel like I'm keeping secrets. Occasionally I want to text one of them in particular. It has nothing to do with privacy or secrets, it's just that my dynamic with each of them is different and the things I share with each of them is different. To me it kinda goes back to why I prefer cell phones so much over landlines. When you call a landline you never know who's going to answer. It could be anyone in the family. When you dial a cell phone you can reasonably expect that the person you wanted to speak to will be the one who answers. Personally, I like to know who I'm going to get when I make a phone call, or who's going to be reading my message when I send a text. Eh, I feel like I went off on a bit of ranty tangent there. I'm also not trying to specifically criticise what you and Dave do (in fact obviously I'm more annoyed by what my own friends do/have done ), I'm just saying that generally I don't like being the third party who means to communicate with one half of a couple and gets the other. Actually though, I think that brings up another point to this whole conversation that hasn't been explored very much. Is it right to go through a SO's phone/email/messages etc. from the standpoint of violating the privacy of the person communicating with them? If someone reads their boyfriend's text message that I sent isn't that violating my privacy as well? I try to respect that couples have a special sort of connection and share things with their partner, but there are a lot of personal things that I might confide in a close friend that I simply wouldn't want his boyfriend to know. I can think of tons of examples in my own personal life. I usually get along really well with my friends' boyfriends/girlfriends/family/other friends, but that doesn't mean I want a direct transmission of information to these people! There are a lot of things that I might want to share with my close friend of three years that I don't want him to discuss with his boyfriend of three months. If said boyfriend goes snooping then I feel like my privacy is being violated. Anyway, just some thoughts. Take care all -Kevin

I agree that labs are the coolest dogs! They're definitely my favourite. I will say that while I've never been a lady dog giving birth I'm pretty sure I'd want everyone to leave me the hell alone while I was doing it!

So I think these guys are not only really talented, but so frickin' hot it hurts! Check out this super sexy video (and the rest of their super sexy videos): Ross Dawson, the gorgeous red head, is my favourite, but let's face it; they're all delicious!

Hi all, It seems like recently there's been a lot of discussion around here regarding what constitutes successful relationship, so I thought it might be fun to create a poll on it. Obviously it's tempting to pick all or most of these choices and obviously they will be very inter-related, but which are the most important and best determinants? Which are just more or less side effects or incidental qualities? Are any of the choices completely irrelevant for a relationship? Obviously the poll will also reveal what the respondents value most in their own relationships. Just for the record, I did mean this poll to evaluate what is generally considered to be a "romantic relationship" (whether or not romance is a major aspect) and not a platonic, familial, or business relationship. I think I'd rather weigh in with my thoughts once the poll progresses a bit more. Have a great day all Kevin

Well said, Kit! I agreed with almost all of that! The only exception being that if people waited until they were older to have relationships they would have more reasonable expectations of them. I think that's partly true, but at the same time, I think that one of the things that makes people more realistic as they get older is the fact that they've had those learning experiences. To me it's sort of like the argument for raising the driving or drinking age. Yes, people are often more responsible once they're older, but at the same time experience plays a big role and one will always be inexperienced when they first start something regardless of age. That's exactly the point I had in mind! I quite agree with this as well!