Great tips. I believe this is applicable to any type of criticism also.

I love this! Luckily, I have one of the best women as my beta as well as my editor. Both of them are honest about what they think and never be rude even once! There have been times when I disagreed and they were still okay with it.

Thank you Cia and Trebs!

I've worked with many different betas, including Cia, and the ones I like are the ones who are honest with me. If something doesn't work in a story, I am using a word incorrectly, or there might be simply a better choice and it is suggested to me I will seriously begin changes to improve my story. However if I get things like "I hate this" it means very little to me. Pointing out that something is confusing and you don't get it means a hell of a lot more to me.

While I agree with everything that's been said, I have to point out that you'd probably only edit once if you did much of that. No writer would want to come back. Writers ask for these services for support (some muuuuch more than others) not for a kick in the chuckies accompanied by a poke in the eye. That said, authors could take some advice on the reverse of what Cia has said. Sometimes they need to be able to take the criticism.

However, there's one thing I feel is important. As a beta or editor, once you've said it, that's it. If it comes back for a second edit and it's still there, it should largely be ignored, unless it's blatant spelling / grammar.

When I edit I actually convert the text into a three column table. Col 1 is the original; Col 2 is suggested ammendments, formatted so it is easier to read as a piece; Col 3 is explanatory notes if necessary. This method is very easy to read, easy to incorporate suggestions - which is more difficult with comments, and very easy to convert back to normal text layout.

This was a great post. As a begining author, I am terrified that my stories will only read well in my own freaky little head. I believe that having a good editor is rather like a good safety blanket. I feel better knowing that someone will tell me when my little thought choo choo has gone of the track. It also drives me bonkers to post something and then find a mistake in what I wrote. Cia, I read your work all the time and I love it. I am really thankful for your information about how to become a better writer.

Thank you,

Carrie

Although I've done some editing on site, and I love editing J&K for Andrew, I mainly do editing and proofreading for friends who are submitting dissertations for their degrees.

It's very different editing a story and editing a dissertation. With my friend's dissertations I'm far more critical and use lots and lots of the red ink, and have on occasion had to resort to giving a good hard kick in the chuckies with my size tens

With editing for stories, as NNN has said, if a previous suggestion hasn't been acted upon I'll let it slide in future - unless there is a very good reason for it not to. With dissertations I've edited however, I'll continuously beat people over the head until they are reduced to tears and submit to my demands

The one thing that Cia has said that I agree with more than anything, is that at the end of the day the story belongs to the author.

So what are you saying Andy? Are you half-assing it on me? Letting dumb mistakes slide? I'm hurt.. /me runs away in tears....

Andrew - are you saying you wish me to give you a few hard kicks in the chuckies? Because I'd happily oblige

So what are you saying Andy? Are you half-assing it on me? Letting dumb mistakes slide? I'm hurt.. /me runs away in tears....

Trust me, if you wrote anything dumb I'd tell you

What I'm saying is, if I suggest a certain euphemism or synonym is avoided for a particular reason, but the author elects to use it anyway, then that is the author's prerogative. These are things which are subjective and individual, and therefore has to be left down to the author's personal style. The same thing holds true with suggestions to changes in dialogue or text.

However, I would continue to highlight things like spelling, grammar and continuity problems, as these are things which should always be corrected before submitting.

**goes back to editing chapter 10 of J&K now armed with his special extra-large red marker pen (with at least four refills)**

I know that I have become a better writer because of my beta/editor. There is so much that I've learned. Even the comments have changed over the last year+ that we have worked together as we mesh better on each new project. I want people to be honest with me. I know that not every piece of work is going to be a brilliantly breathtaking piece of golden literature...there are going to be a few turds mixed in there but that is what a good beta/editor can do is help you even when the story is crap...they can help you realize it.

I've had stories that the plot disappears or it rambles or the characters fall flat and here is where a good beta will help you decide if you continue with major changes or scrap it and start new.

Sorry I was off-base on my first comment. In regards to the blog, I believe Cia's post is one that is excellent, well thought out, and is meant to be a guide. I mean, who doesn't like guides? When you're fortunate to get a good beta/editor the first time around your lucky. I'm lucky like that.. I love my peeps.. Even with those red markers. HA!

While I agree with everything that's been said, I have to point out that you'd probably only edit once if you did much of that. No writer would want to come back. Writers ask for these services for support (some muuuuch more than others) not for a kick in the chuckies accompanied by a poke in the eye. That said, authors could take some advice on the reverse of what Cia has said. Sometimes they need to be able to take the criticism.

 

However, there's one thing I feel is important. As a beta or editor, once you've said it, that's it. If it comes back for a second edit and it's still there, it should largely be ignored, unless it's blatant spelling / grammar.

 

When I edit I actually convert the text into a three column table. Col 1 is the original; Col 2 is suggested ammendments, formatted so it is easier to read as a piece; Col 3 is explanatory notes if necessary. This method is very easy to read, easy to incorporate suggestions - which is more difficult with comments, and very easy to convert back to normal text layout.

You're right about authors being sensitive. My frame of reference is this: I spend a lot of my time doing this (writing) for the enjoyment of it. If someone has something constructive to add, that's great, but if they're just going to be a dick, well, it's pretty demotivating.

As for your editing method, I personally prefer the review function in Microsoft Word, which makes things pretty damn easy.

As I do editing, I am probably one of the kindest editor's around.. My editing style is simple.. I read a paragraph at a time and if I find any mistakes with grammar, sentence structure.. etc... I put the edited version of it in red under the original..

I think there is nothing wrong with pointing out grammatical errors to a writer. Heaven knows, I have and still make some mistakes in that aspect all the time..Then I look at the flow of the paragraph in relation to the whole story as a whole. Then I make suggestions if I think something is slowing the pace of the story down. However, it is merely a suggestion.

It is true and I do agree, that in the end it, is the writer's work and should be how they want it to be. However, there are some general principles that all writers and editors must follow in regards to the basic of all writing.

I have had a writer or two over the years say to me.."I want it this way don't change anything but check the grammar and spelling." I have even had one on an occasion send me a list of what they don't want changed....

This really set me of when I first started.. I was like.. well if you have a list of things you don't want changed then why have me edit at all.

The relationship between a writer and their editor(s) is a very unique but yet complex one as well. As a writer, its your job to create a story people will want to read. As an Editor, it is your job to make that story the best around so a person will want to read it again and again.

It is also a relationship which should be free of certain expectations. For example, as a writer who has written a story whose word count is 45,000, Is it realistic to have an editor, who is not a professional, finish it and back to them in say two or three days?

If your the writer and you have a dead line to meet, then have a copy of it to your editor well in advance of the deadline. This makes it much easier for him or her to edit, and it will not add unnecessary stress upon them. After all, most people have jobs, families, and other obligations which help to take up most if not all of their time.

A writer/editor relationship can be a rewarding experience. It does not have to be one which is stressful.

Great tips Cia!