CAP Series and 9/11

[mmike1969]

Go for broke:

 

JP and Stefan are in Washington. JP is speaking at the Pentagon about his experiences during the Russian revolution.

Some of the younger crew are meeting in New York for a party or shopping. They visit the WTC.

Some of those younger crew are coming in via flight 93.

 

Chaos ensues.

 

 

 

Of course you are just giving Mark an idea on how to get another "King/Queen of Cliffhangers" award...

 

Chapter XX --

 

Matt, Wade, Darius, Will, JJ in NYC visiting the WTC (an excuse since Darius went to NYU)... First plane crashes into North Tower...

 

Scene cuts to DC and switch to Steph's POV, inside the Pentagon... Something is very wrong and everyone knows it by now.

 

Third Plane Crashes into Pentagon, Steph is knocked out and... Story ends at this point forcing everyone to wait until Mark writes the Next story.

 

That way it gives Mark some more time to decide if he is going to kill someone.

 

But I am surprised that no one selected Brian to die yet... Maybe he could be out in the field in Shanksville, PA when a large plane lands on his head?

[Adam Phillips]

I can't believe someone neg'ed adam for this.

 

 

Doesn't particularly surprise me. I've seen how this feature gets used here.

 

I have no beef with the Powers That Be and their decision to enable this feature; but let's be honest: It's a cowardly, yet seductively easy, way to take a swipe at someone without having to suffer any consequences, since you can hide under your little rock, safe and anonymous, instead of standing behind your neg with your name and identity.

 

I think it's a terrible feature that serves to bring out the worst in us, and I've decided that the only time I'm going to use it is to give someone a positive, or to neutralize someone else's cowardly negative. And when I have a beef with someone's post, I'll say so and put my name to it. That's what grownups with a shred of integrity do.

[Mark Arbour]

Of course you are just giving Mark an idea on how to get another "King/Queen of Cliffhangers" award...

 

Chapter XX --

 

Matt, Wade, Darius, Will, JJ in NYC visiting the WTC (an excuse since Darius went to NYU)... First plane crashes into North Tower...

 

Scene cuts to DC and switch to Steph's POV, inside the Pentagon... Something is very wrong and everyone knows it by now.

 

Third Plane Crashes into Pentagon, Steph is knocked out and... Story ends at this point forcing everyone to wait until Mark writes the Next story.

 

That way it gives Mark some more time to decide if he is going to kill someone.

 

But I am surprised that no one selected Brian to die yet... Maybe he could be out in the field in Shanksville, PA when a large plane lands on his head?

 

I'm having a hard time visualizing Stef at the Pentagon.

[Mark M]

Well since both Stef and Brian (possibly) are maybe doing business in the market against each other, maybe a "meeting" of foe's is there and they have this kind of show down....and steff and Brian are in the building. U could make stef be getting out...or something. But i duno Honestly the chanced of any of them being there at the Trade Centers are only people involved in the "Trading market" which basicaly puts....Stef....brad....jp....and possibly Brian in the line of fire.

[methodwriter85]

The only person I could see at the Pentagon would be Wade Danfield- on a summer internship as set up by his father. As for WTC, the mall there had a planned expansion with an LA-based group call Westfeldt America. Maybe Stefan and Brad, burned by the recent dot-com bust, want to invest in the Mall at WTC and expand their real estate holdings. The mall was one of the most profitable malls in the U.S., so it seemed like a safe bet. Maybe because Will's 15th birthday is coming up, Stefan wants it to be a big family trip week in NYC.

[KJames]

I opted to knock off Brian, and Jim and Rich Crampton.

 

Brian would be on the observation deck of the WTC, and the two Crampton brothers in the office of a client on one of the floors struck, discussing a deal for new construction in Claremont and elsewhere.

 

The rest of JP's family still doesn't know about Brian, so his loss is to his adoptive family only, but JP and the rest find out about Jim and Rich when the rest of the family calls from Ohio upon seeing the news that morning.

 

A big family complication is that somebody is raising a ruckus against Jim's and Rich's wills, as well as the trust left by their father--which predate those wills and ultimately determines who will hold all the beautiful, wealthy stock of Crampton Construction Company.

 

JP, Stef, Brad, Robbie and Darius are all touring the colleges that Darius has applied to, and end up stuck and unable to return home for several days as a result--they, because of time commitments, do like many others and--since they're fairly well to do--just buy a car big enough to hold them and their luggage comfortably and drive across country home, taking turns at the wheel. And yes, they end up making a stop in Claremont. (Just something about that town that keeps drawing them back)

 

Matt and Wade are visiting their parents, together, and things actually go reasonably well once Matt's parents realize that Wade is 'the senator's son', since they're such brown-nosers, but Matt's lawsuit against the bank went and started a state investigation against the bank when it was later audited, even though he filed to dismiss the suit--the feds discovered an impropriety by the bank's management in the handling of Matt's Trust, and things went downhill within the bank from there. No harm to Matt, though, the feds made the bank put money back into his trust. Wade's little brother is ready to introduce Wade to his boyfriend...and to ask Wade to back him up while he comes out...

 

Meanwhile back in Claremont, lovely little place that it is, when our 'gang' gets there it's obvious that school has just started, and kids are out on the weekend...and they all bump into the lavender-eyed Hayes' kids (the ones in High School now)...lo' and behold all three of the triplet are gay! (wouldn't that frost Fred to know that his grandkids are all gay?!?)

 

Just a few ideas, Mark...

Edited May 4, 2010 by KJames

[methodwriter85]

JP, Stef, Brad, Robbie and Darius are all touring the colleges that Darius has applied to, and end up stuck and unable to return home for several days as a result--they, because of time commitments, do like many others and--since they're fairly well to do--just buy a car big enough to hold them and their luggage comfortably and drive across country home, taking turns at the wheel. And yes, they end up making a stop in Claremont. (Just something about that town that keeps drawing them back)

 

KJames, Darius wouldn't be applying to colleges in the fall of 2001. Trvia time- Darius was born on January 19, 1982. He's the class of 2000. Unless he takes two years off from school, Darius is going to be a sophomore in college by the time 9/11 rolls around. College application time for Darius would be the summer/fall of 1999, not the summer/fall of 2001. It was a good idea, though. Just doesn't work because of Darius's age.

 

And I'm pretty sure Beau Danfield is straight. Didn't get any kind of gay vibe off of the character. Could be wrong, but I don't think he's supposed to be a gay character.

 

I do like the idea of all of the Hayes grandkids being gay. LOL. But what triplets are you talking about? We don't really know much about that Generation of Hayes, just that Robbie had Matt and Matt got adopted. It doesn't seem like Robbie's brother or sister had kids, because Robbie only mentioned his cousins having kids.

Edited May 4, 2010 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

KJames, Darius wouldn't be applying to colleges in the fall of 2001. Trvia time- Darius was born on January 19, 1982. He's the class of 2000. Unless he takes two years off from school, Darius is going to be a sophomore in college by the time 9/11 rolls around. College application time for Darius would be the summer/fall of 1999, not the summer/fall of 2001. It was a good idea, though. Just doesn't work because of Darius's age.

 

And I'm pretty sure Beau Danfield is straight. Didn't get any kind of gay vibe off of the character. Could be wrong, but I don't think he's supposed to be a gay character.

 

I do like the idea of all of the Hayes grandkids being gay. LOL. But what triplets are you talking about? We don't really know much about that Generation of Hayes, just that Robbie had Matt and Matt got adopted. It doesn't seem like Robbie's brother or sister had kids, because Robbie only mentioned his cousins having kids.

 

You forgot about Aaron's long lost half-Tahitian grandson.

[KJames]

You forgot about Aaron's long lost half-Tahitian grandson.

 

Mark, thanks for making the Touche to MW85...somehow I don't think we'll be seeing any resurrections...but I think we'll find out about a generation of Hayes kids that are all gay...

[methodwriter85]

Wasn't that kind of the point of bringing in Matt Carrswold? It looked like the Hayes family was dying out because Marcel and Robbie weren't going to have biological kids, and Mark Arbour brought in Matt, which created a new generation of Hayes.

 

I'm convinced that the Hayes family must be the gayest family. Ever. Even Frank experimented a little on the gay side.

 

But back to Mat Carrswold and Danfield...for 9/11, they're seniors at Stanford. Still together, or do you think they've had a riff? Maybe Matt is visiting Danfield in D.C. that fateful summer?

[KJames]

Wasn't that kind of the point of bringing in Matt Carrswold? It looked like the Hayes family was dying out because Marcel and Robbie weren't going to have biological kids, and Mark Arbour brought in Matt, which created a new generation of Hayes.

 

I'm convinced that the Hayes family must be the gayest family. Ever. Even Frank experimented a little on the gay side.

 

But back to Mat Carrswold and Danfield...for 9/11, they're seniors at Stanford. Still together, or do you think they've had a riff? Maybe Matt is visiting Danfield in D.C. that fateful summer?

 

Whatever, but didn't the Hayes family in Claremont, OH, have three brothers? Frank is now in Paly, so that would leave two breeders in Ohio, didn't one have a son who would have HS age kids roughly the same age bracket as Darius, JJ & Will? Those're the ones that should all be gay!

[Mark Arbour]

Wasn't that kind of the point of bringing in Matt Carrswold? It looked like the Hayes family was dying out because Marcel and Robbie weren't going to have biological kids, and Mark Arbour brought in Matt, which created a new generation of Hayes.

 

I'm convinced that the Hayes family must be the gayest family. Ever. Even Frank experimented a little on the gay side.

 

But back to Mat Carrswold and Danfield...for 9/11, they're seniors at Stanford. Still together, or do you think they've had a riff? Maybe Matt is visiting Danfield in D.C. that fateful summer?

 

Perhaps it's genetic.

[methodwriter85]

Whatever, but didn't the Hayes family in Claremont, OH, have three brothers? Frank is now in Paly, so that would leave two breeders in Ohio, didn't one have a son who would have HS age kids roughly the same age bracket as Darius, JJ & Will? Those're the ones that should all be gay!

 

The only Hayes I can think of that could fit that would be Fred the Third, who we saw in Bloodlines harrassing Matt. I'm assuming he's the son of Fred Junior, and he must've been one of the cousins who raped Robbie back during the fall of '79. So he's roughly the same age as Robbie. Did he say in the story that he had kids? I think the only thing we knew for sure is that he's the town resident drunk. If he had kids though, I wouldn't see much of a point bringing them in because they're prolly just as abusive white trash as their dad is...Robbie doesn't seem to have a high opinion of his cousins or their kids. I'm assuming his brother and sister didn't have kids, because Frank seems to treat Matt as the only grandkid he's ever had. Of course, it's just as likely his two oldest shut out Frank and Robbie and sided with their mother and her church.

[KJames]

The only Hayes I can think of that could fit that would be Fred the Third, who we saw in Bloodlines harrassing Matt. I'm assuming he's the son of Fred Junior, and he must've been one of the cousins who raped Robbie back during the fall of '79. So he's roughly the same age as Robbie. Did he say in the story that he had kids? I think the only thing we knew for sure is that he's the town resident drunk. If he had kids though, I wouldn't see much of a point bringing them in because they're prolly just as abusive white trash as their dad is...Robbie doesn't seem to have a high opinion of his cousins or their kids. I'm assuming his brother and sister didn't have kids, because Frank seems to treat Matt as the only grandkid he's ever had. Of course, it's just as likely his two oldest shut out Frank and Robbie and sided with their mother and her church.

 

Your sentence about being 'shut-out' is quite a coincidence, because that was what I was thinking. I think the other Hayes boys had kids, what should happen is that the drunkard is so abusive, or neglecting, that his kids are basically planning to leave home and/or town as soon as they're of age and can find some suitable work to establish funding to leave town--but the tough guy act (they all have the typical Hayes muscular build) they've been putting on through school is only because they're gay and don't want to be hassled, and have been very close and supportive of each other (nothing sexually beyond the usual exploration stuff).

 

Besides, when Matt peeled through town, one of the kids really eyed him up good, especially after he decked Fred Junior, so there's one kid in town already--was he a Hayes kid(?)--as virile and horny as the Hayes men are, why wouldn't there be some Hayes kids around Dar's age by now?

[methodwriter85]

Besides, when Matt peeled through town, one of the kids really eyed him up good, especially after he decked Fred Junior, so there's one kid in town already--was he a Hayes kid(?)--as virile and horny as the Hayes men are, why wouldn't there be some Hayes kids around Dar's age by now?

 

There should be some kids around Darius's age. It wasn't a Hayes kid you're thinking about- it's Matt's biolgical mother's son.

Edited January 2, 2011 by methodwriter85

[methodwriter85]

And there are indeed some Hayes kids around Darius's age.

 

Bumping this one up because CAP time is now only fourteen months away from 9/11...so who do you think gets affected?

 

Wade's inevitable because of his ties to D.C., I think. And I wouldn't be surprised if he knew a lot of people from New York City as well. And in a roundabout way, I believe the Hayes family will see a lot of members who go off to fight in the War on Terror- I think they're genectically programmed that way. Gathan's friends - the ones who aren't going to college- seem like prime future soldiers in Iraq as well. I don't think Gathan himself will fight, but I think Zach, if he doesn't get into a good college football program, will as a means to prove to himself that he's straight.

 

I'm sure that Brad's going to see a lot of people in his joint company with Jordan Pfinster who know people that die as well. I know the office is located in Connecticut, but I'm betting those guys and gals will know a lot of people who die in the World Trade Center since we're talking all the elite business people.

 

I'm hoping Mark brings back John Carullo, since John will without a doubt know people who die in the WTC, because he's from Bayonne and it's within viewing distance for them. I think Jeanine might know people as well, as well as Robbie and Ace, since they went to school in Princeton.

 

I also imagine that Will's 15th birthday is going to be a total downer. It'll be like having a birthday right after the JFK assassination- this country's going to be in a total funk.

 

One thing that seems certain- Mark didn't work on building ties to New York City during "Millenium" for nothing.

Edited May 1, 2011 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

I did not really get into this forum when it was first done a couple of years ago because I was sure that Mark would have two or three stories before the tragedy of 9/11, and I was right... I voted for none of the above. You did not have to know someone that dies to be profoundly effected by the happenings that day. Just being alive was enough for you to be effected, although I did know someone that died when the second tower fell. I don't feel the need to have any of the family perish to make that day any worse.

 

I can honestly say that those that picked JP, are you all crazy? JP's death will end the series, it is after all really all about him...

[methodwriter85]

I did not really get into this forum when it was first done a couple of years ago because I was sure that Mark would have two or three stories before the tragedy of 9/11, and I was right... I voted for none of the above. You did not have to know someone that dies to be profoundly effected by the happenings that day. Just being alive was enough for you to be effected, although I did know someone that died when the second tower fell. I don't feel the need to have any of the family perish to make that day any worse.

 

I can honestly say that those that picked JP, are you all crazy? JP's death will end the series, it is after all really all about him...

 

You didn't need to know people who die, but it's very likely these people WILL know people who die, especially Wade and John Carullo. And they're definitely going to know people who go off to fight in Aghanistan and the Iraq War, especially Gathan.

[centexhairysub]

You didn't need to know people who die, but it's very likely these people WILL know people who die, especially Wade and John Carullo. And they're definitely going to know people who go off to fight in Aghanistan and the Iraq War, especially Gathan.

 

I think that you are over-estimating the number of people that actually knew someone that died when the towers fell. I live in Texas but did know one person that was from here originally that I had stayed in contact with over the years and even visited a few times in New York. I have several friends from that area though and we actually talked about this a few years after the tragedy. One of my friends was a commodity broker and had been for almost 15 years when the towers fell and even though the vast majority of the firms in the towers were financial in nature, Steven did not know one person that actually died. I had a couple of other friends that grew up and have always lived in the area, one from New Jersey and another from Queens. Bonnie lived in a fairly small town in New Jersey and about half the people left every day going to New York City to work, she did not know anyone that died in the tragedy either, nor did Mark from Queens. Now, they all knew someone that knew someone that died but I actually am fairly good friends with about a dozen people that live in the area; and I am the only one of them that personally knew someone that died on that day, and I live in Texas... Now, I know that sort of proves your point, you don't have to be from there to have known someone but I just really don't think that many people in California are going to necessarily know someone that died that day.

 

Now, I do think that Wade, Matt, John, Darius, etc... will all know someone that goes off to fight and maybe die in Iraq or Afganhistan. I just am not sure that even people as connected and diverse as this clan is will have anyone that personally know that dies when the towers fall.

[methodwriter85]

I was actually referring to the Pentagon. People died in that one as well. Given that Wade's a senator son, and senators network with everyone- including the military- it's not that hard to imagine he'd know people who die from that.

[centexhairysub]

I was actually referring to the Pentagon. People died in that one as well. Given that Wade's a senator son, and senators network with everyone- including the military- it's not that hard to imagine he'd know people who die from that.

 

I am not just being argumenative here but I think the odds of Wade knowing one of the victims at the Pentagon would be even less than knowing one of them at the World Trade Center. 125 people were killed on the ground at the Pentagon, this doesn't include the 58 or 59 that were on the plan that crashed into it. Lt. General Timothy Maude was the highest ranking officer killed. He was the deputy chief of staff for personel at the Pentagon. He often testified before Congress and might have been known to Wade's father but he was 53 years old and I doubt that Wade would have known him. Even as insular as Washington society is, I really think it would be rare for Wade to actually know anyone in that small group that died. I can see the Senator or even his wife knowing one or two of the people but not Wade. There were about a dozen others of command rank killed but once again because of age or position, they would probably not have been known to the Senator and his wife, much less Wade.

 

Washington DC is a very stratified community. With the exception of the Lt General, I don't think any of the others killed were of a level that they would have ever met the Danfields in a social situation. Now, if one of them came from a money or blue blood background, they or their kids might have met Wade at a private school but even that would be a stretch. the Danfields as they are drawn would be at the very top because of the Senator's position and Elizabeth's family money; they would not associate socially with many out of that arena.

 

I am not trying to be difficult here, I just think we have a tendancy to want to make a connection to this tragedy to give it a greater since reality. I think the scope of the tragedy iteself does that and don't believe we need to have that one on one connection to realize the magnitude of it.

[PrivateTim]

I am not just being argumenative here but I think the odds of Wade knowing one of the victims at the Pentagon would be even less than knowing one of them at the World Trade Center. 125 people were killed on the ground at the Pentagon, this doesn't include the 58 or 59 that were on the plan that crashed into it. Lt. General Timothy Maude was the highest ranking officer killed. He was the deputy chief of staff for personel at the Pentagon. He often testified before Congress and might have been known to Wade's father but he was 53 years old and I doubt that Wade would have known him. Even as insular as Washington society is, I really think it would be rare for Wade to actually know anyone in that small group that died. I can see the Senator or even his wife knowing one or two of the people but not Wade. There were about a dozen others of command rank killed but once again because of age or position, they would probably not have been known to the Senator and his wife, much less Wade.

 

Washington DC is a very stratified community. With the exception of the Lt General, I don't think any of the others killed were of a level that they would have ever met the Danfields in a social situation. Now, if one of them came from a money or blue blood background, they or their kids might have met Wade at a private school but even that would be a stretch. the Danfields as they are drawn would be at the very top because of the Senator's position and Elizabeth's family money; they would not associate socially with many out of that arena.

 

I am not trying to be difficult here, I just think we have a tendancy to want to make a connection to this tragedy to give it a greater since reality. I think the scope of the tragedy iteself does that and don't believe we need to have that one on one connection to realize the magnitude of it.

 

Mmmm, actually I believe you are wrong probably, the Danfields and Wade would certainly have know Barbara Olson as the Olson's would have been in the same social circle as the Danfields.

[methodwriter85]

Something to keep in mind is that this is a soap opera, first and foremost. So outlandish and unlikely things happen to these characters to create drama, like how Isidore gave birth two a set of twins with different fathers or JP and Marcel just happening to be in the Soviet Union when it fell. It's like Forest Gump, the movie where Forest was somehow involved with nearly every major event of the 20th century. It was unlikely, but not impossible, and it was a damn entertaining movie. To paraphrase something that Blue said to me, an unlikelihood doesn't mean it's impossible. If Mark decides to work in having these people know people that died, it might be unlikely, but it wouldn't be impossible and it wouldn't require a total suspension of disbelief to achieve that, either. It's like you almost seem to think that there would be a problem with having some characters who knew people who died because you didn't, and your friends didn't, and therefore the unlikelihood of these characters knowing people that died or losing friends of friends means that Mark shouldn't do that story. I don't agree with that, and I don't see the problem with Mark working in something that might be unlikely, but wouldn't be impossible, and would be something that would heighten the story and sense of loss that this country felt after 9/11.

 

And the thing about 9/11 was the way that it could somehow be so arbitrary in how it effected people. I was reading a story about a guy who, when 9/11 happened, was glad his sister and niece were safe because they were far away from New York City because they had taken a flight to see Disneyland in California.

 

That was on one of the planes that got crashed into the World Trade Center.

 

Weird coincidences and unlikely happenings make up a lot of the individual stories that go into the large 9/11 narrative, and I don't see why Mark should shy away from having 9/11 directly effect the characters since it's not impossible for them to have known people that die, especially given how widely diverse and connected these people are.

 

Good one about Barbara Olson, Timmy. I hadn't thought of that. She would have defnitely cozied up with the Danfields.

 

We do seem to agree about the Iraq War though, being the biggest effect of 9/11 on these guys, especially Gen 4. Gathan's friend Chord practically screams "Future Iraq War Veteran And/Or Casualty."

 

Finally, PLEASE don't get the idea that I'm mule-headed and stubborn. I swear I'm not. Adam Phillips could verify that I'm not a stubborn person who refuses to lose an argument. LOL.

Edited May 3, 2011 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

Methodwriter and Tim, I don't think either of you really understand how insulated Washington DC high society is in reality. I can see the Senator and Elizabeth having known Barbara Olsen from political functions, they are both rabid right wingers after all, but not socially. Elizabeth Danfield came from mega money and married into a truly blue blooded family of Virginia politicos and the combination would put them at the highest level of Washington DC society. Barbara Olsen was married to Theodore Olson, the Soclicitor General of the United States, but this is by no means on the same level. Neither the Olson family nor the Bracher family from Houston would have been on the same socioeconomic level of the Danfields. I can give you that Wade's parents probably had met her at some political gathering but would be shocked if it was a social setting. On top of that, it is rare in Washington DC high society for children under 21 to socialize at many gathering with older members of society that are not family. So many on that level of society have the kids off at boarding or private schools that the odds would be that Wade would never have met someone like Barbara Olson. The Olsons and the Danfields just would not have been on the same social scene together. There is a big differnce between political and social functions in Washington DC.

 

Now, I understand methodwriters seeming desire to see an intimate connection to the tragedy for someone in the family. After all, it will make for a better story for there to be some type of personal connection, I just don't think it is needed. There was such a viseral connection for all of us that witnesse the tragedy from either up close or far away. The enormity of the situation was such that you felt the essence of pain suffered by those involved; even if you had no direct connection to the tragedy.

[B1ue]

I, as I already stated last year, see Centex's side on this. The family does not have to know anyone who was killed to feel the tragedy as their own. Of course, this mirrors my own experience; my family and friends as as insularly Californian as they come. I can't name a single person who had a direct or indirect connection to the deaths on 9/11. But it wasn't like we did not mourn or pray or rage anyways. The entire world was affected, after all.

 

Just not personally.