CAP Series and 9/11

[PrivateTim]

Methodwriter and Tim, I don't think either of you really understand how insulated Washington DC high society is in reality. I can see the Senator and Elizabeth having known Barbara Olsen from political functions, they are both rabid right wingers after all, but not socially. Elizabeth Danfield came from mega money and married into a truly blue blooded family of Virginia politicos and the combination would put them at the highest level of Washington DC society. Barbara Olsen was married to Theodore Olson, the Soclicitor General of the United States, but this is by no means on the same level. Neither the Olson family nor the Bracher family from Houston would have been on the same socioeconomic level of the Danfields. I can give you that Wade's parents probably had met her at some political gathering but would be shocked if it was a social setting. On top of that, it is rare in Washington DC high society for children under 21 to socialize at many gathering with older members of society that are not family. So many on that level of society have the kids off at boarding or private schools that the odds would be that Wade would never have met someone like Barbara Olson. The Olsons and the Danfields just would not have been on the same social scene together. There is a big differnce between political and social functions in Washington DC.

 

Now, I understand methodwriters seeming desire to see an intimate connection to the tragedy for someone in the family. After all, it will make for a better story for there to be some type of personal connection, I just don't think it is needed. There was such a viseral connection for all of us that witnesse the tragedy from either up close or far away. The enormity of the situation was such that you felt the essence of pain suffered by those involved; even if you had no direct connection to the tragedy.

 

To no one's surprise, I will still disagree. They would have known Barbara because she was married to Ted, not known her in her own right and Ted had been high in Republican circles since the Reagan administration, both inside the administration and as a senior partner at Gibson Dunn Crutcher in WDC. While Olson wasn't a blue blood, neither was the senator and the senator might often have need of a top criminal attorney.

 

Being a senior partner at one of the top law firms in the country confers social status and while typical Virginia blue bloods might not mix with the DC crowd, the Danfields are in the DC crowd and have to mix and mingle with the movers and shakers in the town, especially as Olson was on the short list for SCOTUS.

 

The fact that Olson grew up in Mountain View, the next town over from Palo Alto adds another interesting dimension, not to mention his role in Bush v. Gore and Perry v. Schwarzenegger (the gay marriage law suit).

[methodwriter85]

Maybe it's not necessary, but again- why not add it if it's something that's not out of the realm of possiblity? It's a stretch, but it's not requiring a total suspension of disbelief.

 

And haven't you noticed that it's the CAP m.o. to add the personal touch to the larger national historical narraitve? Stefan knew Rock Hudson, who later died of AIDS. Matt knew Matt Shephard, who died in a gay bashing. J.P. Crampton just happened to have met JFK and Jackie Kennedy before he got shot. Matt's roomate Cole had a girlfriend with a stepbrother who just happened to have been a victim in the Columbine High School school shooting. I mean, wouldn't one of the family members knowing someone who dies totally fit into the CAP m.o.?

 

In any event, I would like for Wade and possibly Matt to be in D.C. at the time. It's not at all unlikely for Wade to be in D.C. since school doesn't start yet, and it's the summer before senior year therefore it's internship time. I do feel like the Danfields were added in to give people a sense of how the East Coast felt about 9/11, vs. the West Coast people.

 

Blue, indirectly though you've had people go off to the War on Terror though, right? That's a connection, and one that I absolutely think needs to get explored in this coming decade. Gathan's defnitely going to see a lot of his friends go off to fight.

Edited May 5, 2011 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

Half my family, siblings included, has been in Iraq this time or the last time. One uncle has gone both go rounds. But we weren't talking about that. There were also several historical events in the saga where the family just watched them on TV. Often not, but they weren't in everything. I don't think it would be unexpected for a family with few, and tenuous, scorned ones at that, East Coast connections to be little affected by 09/11, on a personal basis at least.

 

And Tim, Centex wasn't arguing against the senator knowing Olsen or his wife on at least a professional level. He's saying Wade wouldn't know her, except in passing.

 

And what do you mean the senator wasn't blue blood? Weren't the Danfields politians and major landholders from colony days?

[methodwriter85]

Well, he would still know her, in passing. Centext was arguing that nobody would know anyone who died in 9/11, period, and Tim argued that that's not really the case. I'm not saying these people have to lose close friends. Mark had the idea that one of the family members should die, but you guys argued him down from that. So what about them losing some friends and/or acquaintances?

 

Maybe it's not necessary, but again I don't see why Mark shouldn't add that in if he manages to make it work.

 

And yeah, they miss out on some historical events- but when you've got a story that's going to be based almost entirely around 9/11, I think it's reasonable to assume that Mark is going to find some way to make it personal. He's already planning on making things personal for J.P. when it comes to the Iraq War.

[Mark Arbour]

Just to clarify things, I actually have most of the 9/11 scenario written in my head. Right now, I'm lacking the details on the buildings, etc.

[methodwriter85]

Did you read the WTC Mall article I sent you? It's mainly about the mall, but it gives you a sense of the buildings as well.

 

It's kinda weird how I revived this thread just as Bin Laden got killed. Weird timing.

Edited May 3, 2011 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

Well, he would still know her, in passing. Centext was arguing that nobody would know anyone who died in 9/11, period, and Tim argued that that's not really the case. I'm not saying these people have to lose close friends. Mark had the idea that one of the family members should die, but you guys argued him down from that. So what about them losing some friends and/or acquaintances?

 

Maybe it's not necessary, but again I don't see why Mark shouldn't add that in if he manages to make it work.

 

And yeah, they miss out on some historical events- but when you've got a story that's going to be based almost entirely around 9/11, I think it's reasonable to assume that Mark is going to find some way to make it personal. He's already planning on making things personal for J.P. when it comes to the Iraq War.

 

No, what I was arguing is that the odds of any of the main protaginist knowing someone that dies on 09/11 is so small that everyone reading this would have a better chance of being hit by lightning... There was a really good article about two years after the event in New England Journal of Medicine that estimated that the odds of an average person in the US knowing someone that died on 09/11 was something like .00027; the article was examining the way that people reacted to the tragedy. The article talked about how the magnitued of the incident was greater in the public arena versus any actual personal connection.

 

The Danfields as Mark has written them are very very Blue Blooded... There are several former Governors, Senators, etc... in the family tree. I will say once again, the Senator and Elizabeth Danfiled might have known the Olsons in a political or work venue but there is no way they would have in a social venue. Plus, Matt being so much younger would have rarely socialized with any adults outside of close family friends or family in Washington DC.

[methodwriter85]

Damn, there's just no convincing you, is there? Look, I think we've gotten to the point where neither side is going to budge, so let's just move past this debate.

 

Another thing to think about- the odds of someone knowing a victim in Columbine would be something like 1 out of 8, 277, 114, yet Cole's girlfriend did. And the odds of knowing Matthew Shephard was something like 1 out of 281,000, 000 million, yet Matt ran into him at a bar. Just because someone has a better chance of getting struck by lightening, why shouldn't it be done? I mean come, Isidore gave birth to twins with two different fathers! It's a freakin' soap opera! We're SUPPOSED to see crazily excpetional things happen to these people!

 

But anyway. Mark has the idea for 9/11 in his head. Now we just need to know about the layout of the building. Here are some videos:

 

 

[methodwriter85]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EV7uuW6zJg

Here's a vid that shows the Windows on the World:


Man. It's silent, but that makes it kinda even more effective to me. Just something about the fact that you've got this happy couple celebrating their engagment in a building that's going to be the site of such horror. Edited May 4, 2011 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EV7uuW6zJg

Here's a vid that shows the Windows on the World:

 

 

Man. It's silent, but that makes it kinda even more effective to me. Just something about the fact that you've got this happy couple celebrating their engagment in a building that's going to be the site of such horror.

 

 

Amen

[BeysJoshersLepton V2]

I cant pick anyone to be killed, yeh I could pick characters who are not the main characters but it would be meaningless to me. As much as I dont want anyone to die, Marks never been one for pulling punches, many characters over the saga have died, be it in war, accidents, murder. The date in question as we all know was the first major catalyst in the 21st century to change the course of history. It is for this reason as its all unfolding I see anything as a possibility, remember this is not your average family. Jets can be called on a whim, tutors hired for children if somethings happening in New York that Stef wants everyone to see.

 

I'm guessing of course, but we've still a way to go yet till 9/11 judging by the pace, who knows what may happen as a precursor to the event. The only parallel I can think of to compare the direction this could go is JK Rowling (yes I know witches and wizards are slightly different). She was going to Kill Arthur Weasley but gave him a last minute reprieve and instead killed Remus and Tonks. It is the only thing I think she did wrong, Arthur's death would of given Ron a more visceral reason to fight which would of worked brilliantly in the novels, but I think big profits through the movies won in the end. I hope I got the point I was going for across

[PrivateTim]

No, what I was arguing is that the odds of any of the main protaginist knowing someone that dies on 09/11 is so small that everyone reading this would have a better chance of being hit by lightning... There was a really good article about two years after the event in New England Journal of Medicine that estimated that the odds of an average person in the US knowing someone that died on 09/11 was something like .00027; the article was examining the way that people reacted to the tragedy. The article talked about how the magnitued of the incident was greater in the public arena versus any actual personal connection.

 

Those stats are probably correct for your average person in most of the country, but the World Trade Center Towers were about 80% in the financial industry and at the high end/institutional end. Stef and Brad would certainly have known several people in the towers.

[methodwriter85]

Those stats are probably correct for your average person in most of the country, but the World Trade Center Towers were about 80% in the financial industry and at the high end/institutional end. Stef and Brad would certainly have known several people in the towers.

 

That's a great point, Tim, and something I thought about. I was also thinking it was possible that Wade might have socialized with people who were working in the WTC during his private school days- it's not that much of a leap to assume that a few private school kids in D.C. might someday wind up in New York City in coveted entry or internship positions at places like that.

 

*waits for Centexy to vehemently deny that it's even remotely possible for a kid from Wade's school in D.C.- let's say he went to St. Albans or something- to wind up working for a WTC financial firm*

[B1ue]

I would guess that is more likely than the Pentagon internship, though I'd wonder why he'd want to do that when Stef and Brad would be willing to have a place made for him in one of the Bay Area companies.

 

I am curious how whoever winds up there winds up there. I thought the line of reasoning to have Stef or Brad involved in an a company opening up, particularly since they are expanding towards the East coast in Defense contracts side of things, was probably the best explanation. I still don't think it's likely, but with Mark saying "something happens," I can think that all I want and it won't change a thing.

[methodwriter85]

I was thinking it would be more likely Wade interning for a politician or a PAC in DC. It's the summer, it's where he lives, he's into politics, and he's close to his brother so I can see Wade wanting to spend the summer at home. Especially since it's the summer after Beau Danfield graduates from high school, and I could defnitely see Wade wanting to spend time with his brother before he goes to college. I'm not saying that Wade needs to be at the Pentagon, just that he's in DC when it happens. Why not use having a character who's from that area? It's not exactly stretching logic to have Wade be in DC during the 9/11- I'm not even saying that he has to be AT the Pentagon. Just in the city, and observing people's reaction to it.

 

And then Matt, wanting to be close to Wade, decides to take an internship with a business company in New York City. Again, not saying that it has to be Cantor-Fitzgerald, but just a well-respected company in the area. Matt would have the win of being in a city within commutting distance to Wade on weekends, working at a great company, and most of all, getting to be a 21-year old experiencing a city as cool as New York. That sounds like just the kind of fun adventure you'd want to have at that age- experiencing living and working for the summer in a city as diverse and culturally rich as New York.

 

See? I'm willing to make adjustments and reasonings to make things more plausible. In any event, Mark's pretty much saying that the characters are involved somehow. It's interesting to speculate how.

[methodwriter85]

I feel like a total dick for saying this, but I'd really been hoping that we were going to get to the 9/11 story in time for the 10th anniversary. Oh, well. It would have been great if Mark could have gotten us there, but I don't blame him for wanting to keep the pace slower. I'd rather Mark take his time and get the 9/11 story right, instead of just rushing to get it done in time for the anniversary. I'm hoping that we can get to the 9/11 story while it's still 2011, at least.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnksnJW_S5c

 

I figure this video would make good reference. It's amateur video depicting various viewpoints of 9/11. The two college girls watching 9/11 from their dorm gets me the most. And there are great shots of what Times Square looked like in 2001.

Edited September 11, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

I feel like a total dick for saying this, but I'd really been hoping that we were going to get to the 9/11 story in time for the 10th anniversary. Oh, well. It would have been great if Mark could have gotten us there, but I don't blame him for wanting to keep the pace slower. I'd rather Mark take his time and get the 9/11 story right, instead of just rushing to get it done in time for the anniversary. I'm hoping that we can get to the 9/11 story while it's still 2011, at least.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnksnJW_S5c

 

I figure this video would make good reference. It's amateur video depicting various viewpoints of 9/11. The two college girls watching 9/11 from their dorm gets me the most. And there are great shots of what Times Square looked like in 2001.

 

And he's been pretty busy lately. It's that whole real life thing. What an intrusion it can be.

[methodwriter85]

And he's been pretty busy lately. It's that whole real life thing. What an intrusion it can be.

 

In a trembling voice, Jeremy replied, "It is, Mark." Tears falling, Jeremy walks over to Mark, who envelops him in a comforting and fatherly hug.

[Mark Arbour]

In a trembling voice, Jeremy replied, "It is, Mark." Tears falling, Jeremy walks over to Mark, who envelops him in a comforting and fatherly hug.

 

More like a creepy, groping hug.

[methodwriter85]

More like a creepy, groping hug.

 

Thanks. I thought you were supposed to be all paternal towards me or something. LOL.

[Hermetically Sealed]

Sooo . . . I guess Brian is out of the running ?

[mmike1969]

Sooo . . . I guess Brian is out of the running ?

 

No, Have his body transported to California on United flight 93...

[methodwriter85]

Should we put the Pfinsters in the running now?

[paya]

this thread is still alive? IDK why but now I feel it's pretty sick to just sit here and decide who's going to die or not. Playing gods are we? And as I've already said, I hope nobody from the CAP main characters is going to die. There's no need for that.

[methodwriter85]

I think now it's less about figuring out who's going to die; more speculation about how this will effect our characters, and if anyone will personally be there to witness it.

Edited September 23, 2011 by methodwriter85