Viewpoint

[LJH]

When I first started writing I didn't fully understand viewpoint. Years later I realised that VP is one of the most important parts of a story and I'd like to share with you what I have learned about them.

 

1st Person

I discovered that using 1st person is very intense and only second choice to the popular and easier 3rd person format. 1st person gave my writing a voice of authenticity. It flows and also stimulates speech because it is a very natural way to write and an excellent way to beat writer's block.

 

The reader is drawn into the character's confidence as he is addressed directly.

There is no need for thought tags.

The character tells you everything.

You don't need to worry so much about secondary characters because their motivations, desires and needs are only seen through the I. This VP is excellent for telling stories of introverted characters. Several things are for sure:

You can never let up.

You can slip into the trap where there is no solitude for your character.

You need to keep ego out of 1st person writing.

It can be very boring.

 

Here's an example:

 

It was my mother who taught me the southern way of the spirit in its most delicate and intimate forms. My mother beklieved in the dreams of flowers and animals. before we went to bed at nioght as small children, she would reveal to us in her storytelling voice that salmon dreamed of mountain passes and the brown faces of grizzlies hovering over clear rapids. Copperheads, she would say, dreamed of placing their fangs in the shinbones of hunters...

 

But we never knew her dreams, for my mother kept us strangers to her own interior life. We knew that bees dreamed of roses, that roses dreamed of the pale hands of florists...As her children, we were the trustees of her dazzling evensongs of imagination, but we didn't know that mothers dreamed...

 

"The Prince of Tides" by Pat Conroy

Information on 1st Person VP also taken from "Let's Write" by Amanda Patterson.

[Cia]

I've often found that the stories I enjoy the most are in 1st person because as a reader I tend to see the story in my head as I read, not words. 1st person pov allows me more firmly into the mindset of the main character and that enhances the experience.

 

I'm still extremely new as a writer but what I've found is that I tend to use 1st person pov for short stories and 3rd for longer ones. 1st person allows me to immediately thrust the reader into story and allows a more intimate relation to the character which I feel is important when you are limited in your words to bring the world you create to life. When I have more time and freedom to flesh out the world and the other characters in a longer story I tend to use 3rd person pov so that I can have well rounded characters, even the more minor supporting ones.

[Greedya]

Unless I write poetry or prose poetry or the character is a poet of some sorts, I find it difficult to write from the first person's pov. In 1st person's pov, I can't use fancy words and heightened imagery. Which doesn't suit my style.

(Damien's point of view) I'm getting acclimatized to David's aura.

 

Damien's getting acclimatized to David's aura.

 

The first implies that Damien is a poetic kinda person. The second doesn't imply that. So if Damien is an uneducated vagrant, I can't use the first (too poetic - it doesn't sound realistic), or I have to change my writing style to honestly view things from Damien's eyes. * sighs *

[Rilbur]

You don't need to worry so much about secondary characters because their motivations, desires and needs are only seen through the I. This VP is excellent for telling stories of introverted characters. Several things are for sure:

 

That one doesn't work -- you still need to worry about secondary characters, a lot!

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Random thoughts on this topic

 

Although third person is the more popular method, on GA at least most people seem to use 1st. I am not sure it is easier to write in third person, in fact I would say it is easier to use 1st person because you don't need to worry about perspective - you are always writing from the same person. In 3rd person there is a tendency to switch around, one paragraph it is from Louis' perspective, the next it is Andy's then it is Mary's. And while switching perspectives is not wrong, it can be and often is confusing because most writers don't do it on purpose. More so, most writers when they use third person, tend to go to omniscient, like you are doing, but don't realize they are doing it, sort of ends up being the defacto voice because they keep changing perspective.

 

All of which makes 1st person easier, but this too has it's problems, particularly with tense. The writer often shifts from present to past - the one time I tried to use 1st person, I had a heck of time keeping to the right tense, and in the end I am not sure I succeeded. All of which goes a long way to saying, these hints/reminders/tips are so helpful and thank you for posting them.

 

Andy

[LJH]

Rilbur

Oh sure secondary characters are important, not as important as the protagonist's confidant, but they are important. But they can't act alone, not in 1st person VP. Their actions are seen through the 1st person VP so he/she cannot tell the reader what they are thinking because he can never know. Secondary characters might be essential to the twists in the plot but they play no role in shaping the ongoing flow of the story. We are not supposed to root for them. As a rule, they perform their functions and disappear. But as authors, we need to know enough about our secondary characters to have an opinion of them and if they have a pivotal role, they need to be treated with respect. They are not to be treated lightly, as walkon characters would be. Some more about walkons in another posting soon...

 

Andy

Many authors on GA swing from one VP character to another and this is simply to allow the reader to get into their character's heads. however, and here I am putting both feet into the fire, if the story is written well, the author would not have to swing from Andy to Louis back and forth all the time. I feel it is essential to remain in one viewpoint. That's just my personal opinion. There is nothing wrong in switching viewpoints, but the confusion becomes too heavy. Switching 1st person to 3rd person omniscient once or twice in a story makes the entertainment value of the story decrease a little, as long as the author has the bigger picture in mind, and he doesn't confuse the VPoints too often, success is assured.

 

Greedya

Getting is such an ugly word. LOL But i agree with your observation. That's why POV is so important. It forces the writer to be consistent. First person fiction abounds in stories narrated by persons whose perspectives and values are questionable for the reader. Is the narrator missing something? Can we accept his judgements? if we are not sure, we may wish the author had been clearer so that we may not be reminded of our own uncertainties about what we see and what we ought to make of what we see. Even after he travels, does Gulliver have the proper perspective?

 

Kindness

Louis

[hh5]

I currently write in 1st person only. I like it because it allows me to experience the story from each characters view point that contributes to the story telling.

 

I really don't care if it a major character or supporting actor or a minor as long as there's value to tell it. There may have been a case or two I switch to the narrator POV that may have been done as an experiment to get what 3rd person feels like. I refrain from getting the narrators feelings of what happen.

 

Andy right about the tense issues ... I ran into that because I was still writing most of the story ... its unsettling to not have a clue of how the story will go .... hitting road blocks of what the story is about ... now I am past that ... now its a matter of finishing up the story and see how the beta readers like it or not ... letting the story settle down ... picking it up again ... working on the story again.

 

Maybe one day ... I'll try writing 3rd person only and see if it helps me writing a story in another way.

 

Although third person is the more popular method, on GA at least most people seem to use 1st. I am not sure it is easier to write in third person, in fact I would say it is easier to use 1st person because you don't need to worry about perspective - you are always writing from the same person. In 3rd person there is a tendency to switch around, one paragraph it is from Louis' perspective, the next it is Andy's then it is Mary's. And while switching perspectives is not wrong, it can be and often is confusing because most writers don't do it on purpose. More so, most writers when they use third person, tend to go to omniscient, like you are doing, but don't realize they are doing it, sort of ends up being the defacto voice because they keep changing perspective.

 

All of which makes 1st person easier, but this too has it's problems, particularly with tense. The writer often shifts from present to past - the one time I tried to use 1st person, I had a heck of time keeping to the right tense, and in the end I am not sure I succeeded. All of which goes a long way to saying, these hints/reminders/tips are so helpful and thank you for posting them.

 

Andy

 

 

Andy

Many authors on GA swing from one VP character to another and this is simply to allow the reader to get into their character's heads. however, and here I am putting both feet into the fire, if the story is written well, the author would not have to swing from Andy to Louis back and forth all the time. I feel it is essential to remain in one viewpoint. That's just my personal opinion. There is nothing wrong in switching viewpoints, but the confusion becomes too heavy. Switching 1st person to 3rd person omniscient once or twice in a story makes the entertainment value of the story decrease a little, as long as the author has the bigger picture in mind, and he doesn't confuse the VPoints too often, success is assured.

 

[Nephylim]

I use first person or third as the story calls for it. I 'see' my stories so whichever person it's written in I tend to write in 'scenes' so when I am using third person particularly it does switch perspectives becuase my perspective follows 'the camera' and focusses on telling us what the camera would in a film. I hope it works. Sometimes I'm sure it doesn't

[John Doe]

I discovered that using 1st person is very intense and only second choice to the popular and easier 3rd person format. 1st person gave my writing a voice of authenticity. It flows and also stimulates speech because it is a very natural way to write and an excellent way to beat writer's block.

 

I think this is a matter of opinion, but I can understand why many people think this is so. And I have to say that third person also gives a voice of authority and basically do anything that first person voice can do. Like anything, it just has to be written well. (see below for more explanations...)

 

Random thoughts on this topic

 

Although third person is the more popular method, on GA at least most people seem to use 1st. I am not sure it is easier to write in third person, in fact I would say it is easier to use 1st person because you don't need to worry about perspective - you are always writing from the same person. In 3rd person there is a tendency to switch around, one paragraph it is from Louis' perspective, the next it is Andy's then it is Mary's. And while switching perspectives is not wrong, it can be and often is confusing because most writers don't do it on purpose. More so, most writers when they use third person, tend to go to omniscient, like you are doing, but don't realize they are doing it, sort of ends up being the defacto voice because they keep changing perspective.

 

All of which makes 1st person easier, but this too has it's problems, particularly with tense. The writer often shifts from present to past - the one time I tried to use 1st person, I had a heck of time keeping to the right tense, and in the end I am not sure I succeeded. All of which goes a long way to saying, these hints/reminders/tips are so helpful and thank you for posting them.

 

Andy

 

With this I agree. Most people cannot write well in third person. They switch their perspective with the different view points of the third person narrative. Thus it seems like third person is less intimate and personal when, in fact, there isn't a lot of good third person narrative works out there (even in published works... that is unless you look at published literary fiction, for the most parts those are good). The mediocre ones gets the point across but doesn't immerse. But third person, like I have stated many times before in other threads, can do pretty much anything a first person voice can do. I would agree that 1st person is easier to write for me because it limits my perspectives. But 1st or 3rd being easier to write is just a matter of perspective. My first story here - Get There - switches POV from two characters for each chapter and that was my intentions from the get go. When I decided to write in that fashion I made sure I knew what I was doing and I believe I didn't repeat any scenes or passages of information being relayed to the reader. Though still in need of major editting, I don't think it detracted from the story. But I agree with Andy that "most writers" don't do it on purpose (when we're talking about the internet realm). I think the tense issue is just a mindset. When people write in 1st person somehow, even though they know their tenses, they mix them up because of the situation they placed their characters in... if a scene is elevated and heightened suddenly we're in present tense... when the story had been told in past tense... just remeber that it's just like writing in third. (it really is... the people indicators are just different words...)

[Marzipan]

I use the first person changing it between two main charatcters to build a relationship that brings the reader me into their skin. I find this deeply troubling at times. The other characters are seen through the main characters eyes and that brings the key suspence in my story. There is a third character in the story that is eqully important for the happenings, but I'm keeping his motivators and agendas in the dark for reason.

[Jon T Lappin]

Personally, I think third person is a lot harder to write, even though I think it's harder to find a voice in first person. I think different types of stories call for different types of writing. I think first person works much better for romance stories. Romance is based on pure emotion and it's a lot easier for a reader to feel than when they are reading in first person. Other types of stories, like fantasy or dramas with a large cast, are better when they are written in third person. These are always the case, but as a reader, this seems to be what I prefer.

[Kavrik]

I think that both first person and third person are equally difficult. With first person, you must find a way to connect with the reader. Nephy does this beautifully so that I don't mind riding around in the "skin" that she creates for me while I'm reading one of her stories. Other people...well not so much and I usually end up putting that story down after even a few paragraphs because I have nothing in common with the narrator.

 

With third person, I'm more likely to stick with it for at least a chapter...to give a writer time to develop the story because my joy is not explicitly tied to having a synergy with the narrator. But does that make it easier to write? Hell no. It's just different. And that's my two cents about that.

 

 

[Zolia Lily]

Random thoughts on this topic

 

Although third person is the more popular method, on GA at least most people seem to use 1st. I am not sure it is easier to write in third person, in fact I would say it is easier to use 1st person because you don't need to worry about perspective - you are always writing from the same person. In 3rd person there is a tendency to switch around, one paragraph it is from Louis' perspective, the next it is Andy's then it is Mary's. And while switching perspectives is not wrong, it can be and often is confusing because most writers don't do it on purpose. More so, most writers when they use third person, tend to go to omniscient, like you are doing, but don't realize they are doing it, sort of ends up being the defacto voice because they keep changing perspective.

 

All of which makes 1st person easier, but this too has it's problems, particularly with tense. The writer often shifts from present to past - the one time I tried to use 1st person, I had a heck of time keeping to the right tense, and in the end I am not sure I succeeded. All of which goes a long way to saying, these hints/reminders/tips are so helpful and thank you for posting them.

 

Andy

 

 

Can i ask what people's opinions are on swapping First person perspectives???

 

I used to only write in 3rd person (writing 1st person always seemed far too intimate. I struggled to separate myself from my characters. Thankfully i've gotten better at this...) but swapping to 1st person i do sometimes miss the flexibility of 3rd person. Being closer to a narrative style, i feel there was more you could reveal more subtly ( things that the central character may / may not have been aware of ). So in some stories, i switch 1st person perspective between characters ( i try to be careful about this and not overuse / abuse this). In others, i can stick to one character (mainly because i DON"T want the reader knowing what my other main character really thinks / feels.

 

SO my question is- do you see this sort of switching is a tool to be used, or a crutch to be avoided? Does it depend?

 

I normally write for my own enjoyment, but i've recently been considering looking into getting e-published (yes, i know that's not a real verb) and wanted to know if this is something that's frowned upon?

 

thanking yous all muchly in advance!

[Dark]

Can i ask what people's opinions are on swapping First person perspectives???

Personally, I hate it. Switching perspectives in first person is one of the quickest ways for me to put down the story and not look back. If you're going to switch back and forth, then you should use third person. With first person perspective, you want your readers to identify with that main character. Having to put that person 'away' and 'become' someone else for the purpose of learning a second character's inner thoughts and motivations is jarring and to my mind indicates a lazy writer. 1st person is a powerful tool. What makes it difficult are the different means with which you must use as a writer to reveal the motivations and actions of secondary characters. If you don't have the skills to do this, then you should either learn them or stick with 3rd person, which sets you up to explore multiple characters from the inside out.

 

I normally write for my own enjoyment, but i've recently been considering looking into getting e-published (yes, i know that's not a real verb) and wanted to know if this is something that's frowned upon?

Do you mean e-publishing? I don't know that it's necessarily frowned upon these days. It all depends on what you want to get out of your writing. If you're writing for a small, niche community, then e-publishing is the way to go. If, on the other hand, you want to be the next John Clancy, then you should avoid e-publishing and focus on the physical publishing houses.

 

That's my 2 cents.

[Sara Alva]

I did not encounter switching first-person perspectives until I started reading online, and I have to say, for the most part, I am not a fan. Unless the author has created very distinct characters and is able to completely immerse themselves in said characters' voices, it just reads as the same person. A reader will see this immediately, because they'll have trouble keeping track of who is thinking/feeling/acting as the "I" in a particular scene.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think there are many books that alternate first person perspectives.

 

Not to say it can't be done by a talented writer--I have seen it work better in some cases than in others--but in general I agree with Dark, it would be a safer bet to go w/ alternating third person limited.

[Marzipan]

I have read changing pov stories from Lily and I can say they work like magic. Specially in her yet unpublished piece in process, she has the strongest individual characters I have read. So no scare there! Don't play it safe hon, just do what comes from your heart!

 

As for the writing in first/third person... sometimes it is necessary just to follow the path the story represents itself to the author. It just might not be an entirely coscious decision.

[Dark]

I had forgotten before, but I've found this nifty resource: Pesky Point of View ~ Problems & Cures

[Sara Alva]

Lily, if you know you're using the changing perpectives as a tool rather than a crutch, then you should give it a whirl. I don't know much about getting published, but I'm sure you'd have a lot of fans here

 

Btw, where are your stories posted?

[Zolia Lily]

Dark - thanks so much for the link! I got a bit of a giggle out of it as well as firming up my ideas about what i do and don't like about "head-hopping" - what a neat term, by the way! Ha ha ha! It sounds like some sort of alien thing that burrows into your brain and wears your body for a while and then hops into someone else's head. Very sci-fi!!!

 

Kingdom - I don't think it's a crutch ( i hope i hope i hope!!). I tried to read the link Dark linked in objectively (as much as i could) and tried to be honest with myself about the reasons for me doing the head-hopping. Part of it might be that i like both the characters, but i certainly don't feel like that's my driving motivation. I'm finding it useful for this particular story as at one point characters become separated / have different experiences. If i stick with the character i would consider my main character... well, he misses a lot of the action for various reasons!. So i like having the other character to use in his place... since, let's face it, my epic battle scene (lol) isn't going to be very interesting when related by a character who is locked in room on his own, is half dead and has no idea what's going on.

I also hope i've gone beyond the learning stage (although, to be honest, i don't think i'll ever stop learning about how i write), but i'm certainly not at the millionaire author stage either. I have other stories written entirely in 3rd person, entirely in 1st person (none of which have yet made it into the internet...) and two others which are posted online which do alternate. (Oh yeah; they're posted on Literotica under Zolia_Lily. I didn't find GA until Maria got me onto it and haven't got around to moving things yet... )

 

Maria - HUGS!!! Your unwavering support is humbling beyond beleif...

[Tara00]

I don't if this is already said since I didn't read all the posts (apologies)

 

I personally feel that different stories require different POVs since some stories are entirely driven by one main character while others have several loosely held characters which are all equally important to the story. So, for the latter, a third person POV fits better.

 

A first person POV story is easier to write since you can expand along the lines of very personal thoughts. It could convey each and every emotion, feeling, activity of the protagonist. On the other hand, it is restricted to the protagonist only and some of the authors get tangles into the fallacies of conveying other people's feelings through the protagonist which strikes as odd.

 

A third person POV is more coldly stated than a first person POV and the opportunity to expand is not so much since the story becomes the main focus and not the character. It is a very limited perspective but when well-written gives immense credibility to the story for it's overall outlook.

[Ashi]

Sorry to resurrect an old topic. I am just going to say some very self-centered opinion on the issue (i.e., strictly my personal opinion).

 

First person is my choice for most of my stories. They tend to be romantic dramas, and first person PoV just works better because it's more personal. First person PoV usually is very subjective, and that is good here. It gives more room for unreliable narration. As the saying goes "'Assume' makes an ass out of u and me" which is what an unreliable narration can add to the conflict. Conflict is drama. Main character's growth also relies on learning a PoV he previously didn't know. No matter how much author knows about the secondary characters s/he writes, the main character only knows what's revealed for him/her. And that unknown is a potential conflict. The author can keep track of all the stuff other characters know, but main character doesn't in an outline (if the author uses that). I would go as far as asserting all human conflict stems from what they previously didn't know and/or failure to communicate. The main character must be ignorant/naive in the beginning of the story and enlightened on the main subject of the story by the end (the subject can be anything, "love hurts" or "life is beautiful" or "nothing is simple as it seems at first" or "forgive thy enemy" some sort of life lesson. Could be a cliche, doesn't matter. It's how you tell a story, not what you tell that's important).

 

I also like first person and third person limited (they're pretty similar, except on level of "personalness.") because they're limited in scope. Yes, we as authors know what each character thinks, because we created them, BUT we only write out the portion the narrator reveals to readers. Whatever not written out, is something the main character and therefore the readers also have to find out. Guessing the other characters' mind (correctly or incorrectly) is part of psychological depth of the story. The fear from the unknown makes a story interesting. Whatever we write must make readers think. Third person omniscent (AKA, god's PoV), on the other hand, writes out everything in plain view.... I am from the school of thought which believes the purpose of art is to provoke thinking, so I am all for limited PoVs.

[Dee]

I'm going to chime in here on this old topic and confess that I am not a fan of first person unless it's done very well and that is a hard thing to come by. I have not yet perfected the art--nor do I really care to--so I tend to steer from it and go with third person limited. I like third best because I can still give the readers a subjective point of view from each character with the emotion that first person allows (that is, without it getting too personal and without having to focus on only one character). My writing usually does not stray into the omniscient territory--sometimes, maybe, but I try to keep it somewhat limited for surprise sake.