Science-Fiction: A Genre In Decline?

[Greedya]

http://www.airlockal...in-decline.html

I kinda agree. Sci fi readers are a niche segment. I guess most people want to read to enjoy and relax, and sci fi doesn't make readers relax lol.

 

* time to read humour *

 

On an unrelated note: If you read M/F R-rated sci fi, I highly recommend this 2009 Nebula Award Winner: http://clarkesworldm.../johnson_10_09/

:P

[Nephylim]

That was interesting. I like science fiction, I like fantasy, I like romance. I'm not so keen of humour for some reason. Maybe I'm too dark to be funny. I really did like that story and find myself wondering...

[Greedya]

Maybe I'm too dark to be funny.

 

This reminds me that I haven't finished LIC.

 

 

Well, you can be both dark and funny, but if you are, you aren't probably you.

[Red_A]

Have you looked at 2010 summer Anthologies Out of this World in particlar

Leaving Club Leo

[C James]

Thanks Red!

 

I like sci-fi, provided it's hard sci-fi: obeys reasonable interpretations of physical laws, etc.

 

"Leaving Club Leo" was my first try at sci-fi, and it was fun to wrote. I had to do a lot of math, to such as to determine how many feet per second change in delta-v was required to raise an orbit by a given number of miles.

[JamesSavik]

I think that genres go through cycles and maybe sci-fi is at the bottom of one of its cycles.

 

There is also the problem of media not really know how to handle sci-fi. Hollywood has shown that it doesn't know how even when you show them (Star Wars, Aliens, Avatar).

 

There still tons of great stuff to read out there... and I plan to add some more.

[hh5]

I like sci-fi, provided it's hard sci-fi: obeys reasonable interpretations of physical laws, etc.

 

"Leaving Club Leo" was my first try at sci-fi, and it was fun to wrote. I had to do a lot of math, to such as to determine how many feet per second change in delta-v was required to raise an orbit by a given number of miles.

 

You just reminded me of something ... it was about a witch that changes into a cat ... someone would argue the impossiblity ... and the rebuttle was ... "Its about Magic"

 

Then there was a cartoon episode of Star Trek ... Spock finding magic ... illogical ... and ... yet he partook in exploring it.

 

So whatever happen to reading is fun?

 

Of course if we accept reasonable interpretations ... Warp Speed is illogical ... Star Gate is next to impossible ...

but both can lead to an expensive power bill we can never afford

 

But some show would remind us ... Warp Speed ... was just a literary reminder of race cars and dog fights ... with Tom Bosley reminding us that something like Star Wars was fun to watch.

 

Hence, "That's Entertainment"

 

Another Example

My nephew was reading the Golden Compass and his father is Physicist

The father kinda hates the story science because its Partical Physics explanations is not exactly right

That takes the fun out of the story

I watch like 15min of the movie ... it didn't catch me too much to watch the whole movie

It did make me question harry potter ... like why don't they have Mystical and Magical creatures running around with the students or the teachers .. perhaps its too distracting to present

[Rilbur]

like why don't they have Mystical and Magical creatures running around with the students or the teachers

 

They have a ghost teaching history of magic. They have a forest chock full of hippogryphs, thestrals, centaurs, unicorns, and who knows what else. One year they have a werewolf for a professor. Lets not forget the poltergeist, or the house ghosts, much less the fact that one centaur becomes a member of the staff! House-elves in the kitchens, gnomes in gardens, doxies in curtains, boggarts in closests...

[hh5]

They have a ghost teaching history of magic. They have a forest chock full of hippogryphs, thestrals, centaurs, unicorns, and who knows what else. One year they have a werewolf for a professor. Lets not forget the poltergeist, or the house ghosts, much less the fact that one centaur becomes a member of the staff! House-elves in the kitchens, gnomes in gardens, doxies in curtains, boggarts in closests...

 

Well no real personal creatures in the dorms or the class rooms. You would expect Malfoy to have a personal servant creature catering to his whims and his posse.

 

Yeah they had a werewolf but through discrimination he left ... you don't want your teacher to turn into an werewolf and have you as a snack

Sure they have creatures in the forbidden forests ... but that's more like a wildlife preserve

Its surprising enough that ghosts are local to the school

You do have a point about the thestrals ... at least that's some evidence of creatures participating in the life of a student or professor

[hh5]

There still tons of great stuff to read out there... and I plan to add some more.

 

How would the topic question apply to hardcore sci-fi - new stuff?

 

These days Dark stuff been the new trend - the new money making territory

or call it the grayer look to utopia

 

HP sure did change got darker but blame that on the dark lord ... not sure how the post dark lord era looked ... perhaps a lot of clean up since the darklord kept Harry, Malfoy, Ron, and anyone else game-fully employed

[Greedya]

I understand there isn't a clear borderline between sci fi and fantasy..

 

But Harry Potter is obviously a fantasy story. And a series of children books ('cause the universe is a little childish and the adult characters act foolishly sometimes). Quidditch is rubbish in terms of game design. Peter Pettigrew is sometimes clever and sometimes idiotic. Dumbledore is sometimes overly myopic and sometimes very calculating (it's possible but still unbelievable).

 

Sci fi is thought-provoking and more grounded on assessment of the future and/or what-if analysis. There are implications - be it political, ethical, social - to think about. On the other hand, fantasy is more about creativity and imagination, usually beyond scientific possibilities (strictly speaking, it's near impossible). Science fantasy has both features.

 

Just my 2 cents though.

[Kavrik]

Sci fi is thought-provoking and more grounded on assessment of the future and/or what-if analysis. There are implications - be it political, ethical, social - to think about. On the other hand, fantasy is more about creativity and imagination, usually beyond scientific possibilities (strictly speaking, it's near impossible). Science fantasy has both features.

 

I agree with this statement. Furthermore I just wanted to chime in with my two-cents. Basically, there's a lot of BAD science fiction out there being written and I think it comes from people wanting to write sci-fi that don't understand science. I come from the same school as CJames--I like the hard science fiction, the math, and this requires people to do research. One of my idols, the late Carl Sagan who was a Professor at Cornell University, has an absolutely wonderful recording that he left for future Martians. In this recording he says that science fiction and science have kind of done this dance together over time and that one has definitely complemented the other. Now my definition of sci-fi is going to be way off from the definition given by other people. Stephanie Meyer for example wrote this book called "The Host" and it was branded as sci-fi. However, I thought it was just another romance book ala Twilight (and Twi-hards will stone me when I say I thought that book was really boring and poorly written for a published "masterpiece"--YES I READ THE WHOLE THING) and was unworthy to carry the genre's name. But whatever, she sells a billion books a second (hyperbole but you get the picture). I also disagree with printed sci-fi that is just allegory for attacks against people (Orson Scott Card and his "Bugger" war is just a hateful diatrabe to platform his anti-gay feelings and religious beliefs yet lauded with praise). Don't get me wrong, the man can write. But he uses his talent for cunning manipulation in my opinion and needs to be called out on his B.S. Anyway, I hope I'm not offending anyone as these are just my feelings on this topic. And I hope that better science fiction gets written, especially stuff that isn't used for some kind of agenda and instead celebrates the beauty of hard science fiction coupled with the soaring human spirit.

[Rilbur]

(Orson Scott Card and his "Bugger" war is just a hateful diatrabe to platform his anti-gay feelings and religious beliefs yet lauded with praise)

 

I'm sorry, but his anti-gay feelings? How does Ender's Game -- which, IMO, is a great book and a good series -- showcase 'anti-gay feelings'?

[Greedya]

Basically, there's a lot of BAD science fiction out there being written and I think it comes from people wanting to write sci-fi that don't understand science.

 

Bad sci fi stories tell science like essays, rather than ingeniously embed science in the plot. I can stand 'bad science' if the logic is consistent, but I can't stand sci fi that's not character-oriented. From my reading experience, bad sci fi comes from people who don't know how to tell a story.

 

Well, actually I love scientific fields that are not yet well established, like evolutionary psychology. And I give +50 bonus points for stories that tell us that some current scientific belief us wrong 'cause scientists make mistakes and have blind faith in the scientific method as if science is god - science can't be wrong. Just saying as a follower of the Popper's falsificationism ;p

 

* notes to self - Bayesian update, Bayesian update *

[Caedus]

I agree with this statement. Furthermore I just wanted to chime in with my two-cents. Basically, there's a lot of BAD science fiction out there being written and I think it comes from people wanting to write sci-fi that don't understand science. I come from the same school as CJames--I like the hard science fiction, the math, and this requires people to do research. One of my idols, the late Carl Sagan who was a Professor at Cornell University, has an absolutely wonderful recording that he left for future Martians. In this recording he says that science fiction and science have kind of done this dance together over time and that one has definitely complemented the other. Now my definition of sci-fi is going to be way off from the definition given by other people. Stephanie Meyer for example wrote this book called "The Host" and it was branded as sci-fi. However, I thought it was just another romance book ala Twilight (and Twi-hards will stone me when I say I thought that book was really boring and poorly written for a published "masterpiece"--YES I READ THE WHOLE THING) and was unworthy to carry the genre's name. But whatever, she sells a billion books a second (hyperbole but you get the picture). I also disagree with printed sci-fi that is just allegory for attacks against people (Orson Scott Card and his "Bugger" war is just a hateful diatrabe to platform his anti-gay feelings and religious beliefs yet lauded with praise). Don't get me wrong, the man can write. But he uses his talent for cunning manipulation in my opinion and needs to be called out on his B.S. Anyway, I hope I'm not offending anyone as these are just my feelings on this topic. And I hope that better science fiction gets written, especially stuff that isn't used for some kind of agenda and instead celebrates the beauty of hard science fiction coupled with the soaring human spirit.

 

 

Yes very true. Would you consider popular series like Star Wars, bad Sci-Fi? They don't rely on Science or Math or logic, they seem to feed off the mythos of the series to compel their readers to keep reading.

[Kavrik]

Yes very true. Would you consider popular series like Star Wars, bad Sci-Fi? They don't rely on Science or Math or logic, they seem to feed off the mythos of the series to compel their readers to keep reading.

 

 

I love Star Wars because it is just so fun that I can't take my eyes away. It's part of that untouchable wonderland that I adore so really, I'm unable to look at it objectively at all.

 

I'm sorry, but his anti-gay feelings? How does Ender's Game -- which, IMO, is a great book and a good series -- showcase 'anti-gay feelings'?

 

"Bugger" is a slang term for sodomite (a.k.a. homosexual). The plot of Ender's Game is that boy geniuses must be trained to a level where they can be smart enough to save humanity to overcome the threat presented by the "Buggers" which are intent on destroying the world. If you take out the term "Bugger" and insert "Gays" then you can see how this whole plot arises from Orson Scott Card's homophobia. If you don't believe me, google it and you'll see. Plus he has many statements from himself online where he is extremely anti-gay. Google "Bugger" and you'll see what I'm speaking about.

[JamesSavik]

"Bugger" is a slang term for sodomite (a.k.a. homosexual). The plot of Ender's Game is that boy geniuses must be trained to a level where they can be smart enough to save humanity to overcome the threat presented by the "Buggers" which are intent on destroying the world. If you take out the term "Bugger" and insert "Gays" then you can see how this whole plot arises from Orson Scott Card's homophobia. If you don't believe me, google it and you'll see. Plus he has many statements from himself online where he is extremely anti-gay. Google "Bugger" and you'll see what I'm speaking about.

 

 

That's a fascinating take on Ender's Game but one that I disagree with.

 

In the books that follow, Ender is racked with guilt at exterminating an entire race. He is also vilified for committing genocide. Ender actually saves a Bug Queen larvae and takes it to where their race can be reborn.

 

Bugs are a familiar "bad guy" in science fiction. Bugs in one form or another show up in Armor by John Steakley, Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, the Forever War by Joe Haldeman and numerous others.

 

When Heinlein was asked why the bugs? he said it was simple: Bugs creep people out, are quite savage, multiply like rabbits and are widespread. As a tough, enduring lifeform, he expected that we would eventually encounter alien intelligences derived from insects.

 

I'm the last guy to let a Mormon off the hook and Card is as homophobic as any Mormon but, I sincerely doubt that is the symbolism behind Ender's Gamme.

[Hoskins]

I think Card is one of the biggest closet cases I've ever seen. He sticks to his religion so he won't stick to the hot dudes around him.

 

His work (Speaker for the Dead, the Seventh Son series) tends to have homo-erotic content while being somehow...homophobic. I wouldn't want to be his brain, is what I'm saying, because he's confused.

[Kavrik]

That's a fascinating take on Ender's Game but one that I disagree with.

 

In the books that follow, Ender is racked with guilt at exterminating an entire race. He is also vilified for committing genocide. Ender actually saves a Bug Queen larvae and takes it to where their race can be reborn.

 

Bugs are a familiar "bad guy" in science fiction. Bugs in one form or another show up in Armor by John Steakley, Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, the Forever War by Joe Haldeman and numerous others.

 

When Heinlein was asked why the bugs? he said it was simple: Bugs creep people out, are quite savage, multiply like rabbits and are widespread. As a tough, enduring lifeform, he expected that we would eventually encounter alien intelligences derived from insects.

 

I'm the last guy to let a Mormon off the hook and Card is as homophobic as any Mormon but, I sincerely doubt that is the symbolism behind Ender's Gamme.

 

 

And respectfully James, I'd disagree with you but this is all opinion. When I finished reading Ender's Game, I was livid. But I critically read everything for intent. I did try to cut Orson a break but I researched him and found many of his quotes against gay marriage, against gays in general, and just being a horrible bigot. You cannot convince me now that a man as intelligent as Orson didn't know what he was writing. And yes, I do think he is intelligent and I do think that the man knows how to write. I'm just upset that he's the king of a genre I admire and lauded with so much esteem when he has this horrible agenda of his to outright make all gay people second-class citizens.

[Greedya]

"Bugger" is a slang term for sodomite (a.k.a. homosexual).

 

Bugger is also an Australian slang word, meaning 'bummer' (like you feel annoyed). It has nothing to do with sodomites here lol.

 

 

 

[Rilbur]

His personal and religious position should reflect in his works, agreed.

 

Which is why I find it interesting that it doesn't.

 

'Bugger' is obviously derived from 'bug' (insect-like hive culture, their implied insectoid appearance, preference for 'cramped' underground tunnels) -- sorry, I just don't buy the sodomizing reference without some evidence past the similarity in terms. You'll need to provide additional proof. The standards you're using could be used against almost any author or work to twist and distort them past recognition. Look! The Guardians is about a group of people who guard against this evil thing! Obviously they're guarding -- and then destroying -- homosexuality! Because the family values council consider themselves the 'Guardians' of American decency! Sorry, this logic doesn't fly.

 

Look past his Ender's series to the the Homecoming series, where you have an openly gay character whose only 'fault' is that he can't provide for the genetic continuance of a micro-community, which causes him and his 'inevitable partner' to be shunted aside as second class citizens. Which isn't an anti-gay diatribe; it's a reasonable result of the circumstances presented.