Ignorance of writing First Person.

[Nephylim]

It occurs to me that there are two distinct styles of writing first person, I call them the impersonal and the personal.

 

Impersonal.

 

I felt his hands running up and down my back until he found that spot right between the shoulder blades that really got me going. I tried to get a little distance, to talk myself down, to tell my self that I should keep my head and not get too carried away, but it was no good.

 

Personal.

 

Oh God those hands, every stroke sends shivers through me. Oh yeah... yeah right there; that's the spot Oh... oh just a little... just there between the shoulders and ... and oh shit, oh shit yeah...yeah... yes. Okay... have to get a bit of distance here. Take a deep breath. Try to focus on... oh shit... what... who... Calm down. Keep your head and.... Oh... oh...oh yes... yes.. YES. I'm lost.

 

So is there a fancy name for these two perspectives.

 

Maybe they could also be called 'outside' and 'inside'

 

Ramblings.

 

Over to you for thoughts.

[Marzipan]

And the personal was also written in preesens. That too made it feel even more from inside, like a right now feeling. Hmmm...

[Cia]

To me neither of these are actually point of view. They are writing methods. You can use both equally if you substitute I or "Nephy" equally, which is the p.o.v. indicator in those paragraphs. Your impersonal style is narrative and your personal is stream of consciousness. For me I'm more likely to write in narrative style where my character is addressing the 'audience' but we can also see their thoughts. A stream of consciousness is almost more like overhearing their thoughts and it has it's place to really showcase the character's mind but I don't think I continue that style for an entire story. You can mix the two pretty easily though, imo. I think you can also use a stream of consciousness just as easily when you write in third person limited because you are showing both the thoughts and 'viewpoint' of a single character, even if you are not using 'I' as your pronoun. So really, it's not point of view at all, just what method you write the p.o.v.

[Nephylim]

Cool. That's really interesting. Thanks guys

[Fishwings]

It occurs to me that there are two distinct styles of writing first person, I call them the impersonal and the personal.

 

Impersonal.

 

I felt his hands running up and down my back until he found that spot right between the shoulder blades that really got me going. I tried to get a little distance, to talk myself down, to tell my self that I should keep my head and not get too carried away, but it was no good.

 

Personal.

 

Oh God those hands, every stroke sends shivers through me. Oh yeah... yeah right there; that's the spot Oh... oh just a little... just there between the shoulders and ... and oh shit, oh shit yeah...yeah... yes. Okay... have to get a bit of distance here. Take a deep breath. Try to focus on... oh shit... what... who... Calm down. Keep your head and.... Oh... oh...oh yes... yes.. YES. I'm lost.

 

So is there a fancy name for these two perspectives.

 

Maybe they could also be called 'outside' and 'inside'

 

Ramblings.

 

Over to you for thoughts.

 

 

 

 

I agree with Cia -- I see these two as techniques to writing. The trick is to find the perfect balance. I find first person to be superbly difficult to pull off, given that if your reader likes the voice -- you, the writer, is all set. If your reader doesn't, then I doubt they'll have the patience to read onwards. I find it helpful to keep a leash on the OHHHYESSSYOUHITTHESPOTOMG emotional jizzblast in very poignant situations, since more "distant" voices often are enough to evoke the desired effect in your reader.

[Nephylim]

Oh dear Glory is going to be soooo disappointed. But he's a cat so he can't really help it. Love him or hate him he's a right in the moment guy and he hates the distant voice; he already has enough of those in his head

 

[Jamie de Valen]

Nephy,

 

It’s nice that you’ve begun this discussion thread. I’ve seen the issue of 1^st vs. 3^rd person discussed at other times and in other forums on various sites, including GA, but it never hurts to discuss it again. The topic can be especially interesting for aspiring writers who are wondering which voice is the best for them to write it.

 

When a discussion like this is joined, one usually hears a lot of different (and sometimes differing) opinions. I’ve seen, read and even discussed in chat or in person this topic with others. I’ve known some people to claim that 1^st person is easy to write, and that’s why many first time writers choose it. Others argue the exact opposite and reply that a gifted writer can make a 1^st person account truly sing, and that 1^st person can be quite difficult to write in.

 

Third person always gets the nod for giving the reader the broadest perspective, but I think all of the above can be a bit simplistic.

 

A writer should firstly choose the style they think feels best to them. A short story is one thing, but if it’s a long work the writer should remember that they will be living, and writing in that voice for some time, so they should choose a voice they like and feel comfortable using.

 

A talented writer should be able to handle either 1^stor 3rd voice without any problem, although they may have a personal preference…which is what it sometimes comes down to – a personal preference.

 

If a story is mostly all dialogue, then I feel that first person can get rather tedious, because we only know what’s happing through the eyes of narrator and what he sees and hears in relation to his environment and his dialogue with others. But if the story is a good blend of dialogue, detail, description and emotion, for example, most readers will glean a lot from it and in fact have a broad perspective even though it is written in the 1^stperson.

 

Detail, and description are some of the important keys no matter what voice you write in. Good descriptions fan the flame of the reader’s imagination. Emotion added in the right proportion at the right time becomes the spice of the story. Added to some interesting and well-written dialogue, a story really comes to life.

 

For example, I think works heavy in dialogue and light on description that use (and over use) the f-word miss out on opportunities to take the strong, harsh and often raw emotion of such a curse, and channel it into something that will grab the reader by the throat. The cheap, quick and easy solution is like hammer blow to the reader’s head, but the shock factor quickly lessens (especially if the word over used) and the emotional punch the writer intended rapidly fades. A more crafted piece of dialogue will not only make a stronger statement, but also will speak directly to and linger far longer with the reader.

 

1^st or 3^rd person? A talented writer should be able to handle both, a fact that proves their competency as a writer. It takes time, to craft a good story in either voice… a truth that some amateur writers often don’t like to hear, especially if they’re keen to quickly churning out half-baked chapters to garner the accolades of their readers.

 

A current example of a truly talented use of 1^stperson is Emulated’s current work, Kieran now appearing on his blog. Although written in the 1^st person it is truly a lovely story that is a well-crafted blend of dialogue, description, detail and emotion. Whether it’s a genre you like or not, an objective and well-read reader will have to agree that it is indeed nicely done and superbly written.

 

And therein lies the real issue of writing... be it 1^stor 3^rd person; romance, comedy, sci/fi or horror; gay, bi or standard straight fiction it’s the talent of the writer that’s the key to success in both short and long term success in relation to any piece of fiction.

[Nephylim]

I have written in first and third person and there are pros and cons to both. Enigma is very much first person and in some sense I can see that, that limits it but very little happens outside of the characters, and a lot of it takes place inside their heads so to speak and this is even more so in the second book.

 

However, one of my new works is far more a first person stream of consciousness work, in that the main character is so 'in the moment' that even the more impersonal first person is not enough. It was incredibly hard writing a whole story in stream of consciousness first person, in fact it was impossible. I HAD to write some slightly more distanced passages, although I have consciously tried to keep them to a minimum.

 

I am constantly trying to push the boundaries with my own writing and I suppose there are only so many different styles of writing you can find. Cia has read the first book of the new work and she seems to think it's okay. It's a very challenging way to write and I love challenging myself.

 

The difference between the two styles is really stark to me and I hadn't really realised how much. I was curious to see if it was a definite style or whether it was just some other way I was over analysing and disecting it.

 

Who knows what I will try next and I will be bothering you again with interpreting it.

 

Oh and the other thing that ocurred to me was with the swearing. I apprecaite that little is good if it is being used for impact, however, what if we are writing from the mind of a character who thinks/uses it all the time. Would we be true to the character if we cut them off and stopped them using/thinking it just because we think they shouldn't. Glory, the main character in the story I mentioned above is very much and 'Oh shit; oh f**k..' character and have no intention of gagging him.... So There

Edited January 29, 2011 by Nephylim

[Jamie de Valen]

My comment about the swearing wasn't directed at your particular character - it's a broader opinion.

 

I understand that swearing or use of certain phrases or expressions can be a part a character's persona, but I still think it can be over used. If every other word is a curse or the same expression it does lose it's impact... even if it's not a curse.

 

I find it interesting that most writers (myself included) are absolutely paranoid about using the same word twice or, heaven forbid, three times in a paragraph or on the same, page yet something like an expression we'll use and reuse and reuse into infinity. I think the same principle applies. Spices are great in cooking... I couldn't live without them, but I don't open up my cupboard and pore 1/2 a bottle of every type of spice I have into a dish... suddenly something good becomes something inedible.

 

We all have to come to what we feel is right for us and our characters. That is, of course, the writer's prerogative.

 

I think writers should write... and even make mistakes. It's how we learn... it's how we get better. That's why experimenting is always good. Not every experiment is a success, but every one CAN be a learning experience if we choose to look them that way.

[Nephylim]

My comment about the swearing wasn't directed at your particular character - it's a broader opinion.

 

Aw hun, I didnt think for a single moment that you were