Poor Man's Son

[rjo]

Again Mark gives us a perfect chapter (13). We see Gathan and Kristen. Poor boy rich girl but to them in doesn't make a difference. We see Brad and Will having a true heart to heart. So perfect I can hear them speak the words. You can feel the love flow between them. ( As I was thinking about this chapter today I remembered that Billy, Brad's brother was only a year older than Will when he died. Brad always blame himself for Billy death. Having these arguments with Will can only bring back those painful memories.) Then to top it off Will and Stef on the way to Paris. You see how the past is always altering the present changing it forever.

 

Jeremy said that he talked Mark into writing Summer Love. That book for some reason did not have the passion ( for lack of a better word) than the other books. I used to not like 1968 mainly because Jeff died, but also it was a bad year in so many ways. However, over time I have come to make my peace with it. Why are these stories so compelling? Why do we follow these characters so closely? Why do we wait for the next chapter like crack addicts awaiting their next fix? I believe we care about what happens to them.

 

Mark. remember the reaction to Jeff's death. How was that different to Steven's death? We knew Steven was dead before the story began. We were prepared for it. Something I think you do very well. Even when Carson and Brian were killed we didn't flinch. Some of us could rationalize it as something that needed to be done. Of course our government killed Osama Bin Laden is front of members of his family. Please understand that I am not saying Bin Laden was innocent and didn't deserve to die. But my point is these stories are so real that sometimes I wonder if they are fiction or real life. They reflect history. That takes more than a good author, it takes a great one. Thanks for my weekly fix. And have a very Happy Birthday may you have many more!!!

Edited May 11, 2011 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

I think Mark later admitted his mind was already on If It Fits. That's why A Summer Love didn't quite work- it was never fully focused on. It only got like 13 chapters, if I recall correctly. I think we all were kinda rushing through that one. I think the lesson I learned from that was to never assume that all 22-year olds graduating from college are as interesting as Brad was, or the gang from St. Elmo's Fire. I thought the drama of transitioning from college to the real world, and generally Gex Xer angst against the backdrop of the Cold War ending would have made A Summer Love a compelling story. And damn, I was wrong. LOL.

 

One good thing that came out of it, though, was that I discovered the Pixies while doing music for A Summer Love.

 

 

What a great tune.

 

Anyway, I really liked Will's conversation with Brad. It kinda hits on the problem- Will's growing up too fast, and Brad isn't handling it well. I think I've had some trouble with it, as well- I was really uncomfortable with where the story was going at first, because in my mind, Will's still a little kid. I think of him as being about 11, and all this stuff with sex and drugs and the like just seems much too soon, much too fast for him. I just thought all of this was way too mature for his age. But then I had to remember being in 8th grade, and it's really not. Hell, I knew kids who were parents by 8th grade.

 

But I guess I just have to get used to the fact that Will's not a little boy anymore, same as Brad has to. I'm glad that JJ's staying a child for just a little bit longer and isn't in the same rush to grow up. You want to grow up and become an adult, and then when you get there, you realize that childhood was a lot less complicated and more carefree. LOL.

 

It's kinda weird- JJ and Will kinda feel like my young nephews or something, and it's just weird watching them hit adolescence and get involved with all the complications that arise with it. I feel like they should still be off, playing with Pogs before watching Boy Meets World on TGIF or something.

Edited May 12, 2011 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

You are 100 percent right. What is interesting is that Poor Man's Son has changed. It was Gathan's story at first but now is more Will's story. I read the blue parts over more than the black parts. I was wondering why that was. Both are young men who are smart and with great promise. Will is the one who has the world at his feet. Gathan until his meeting Robbie had to fight for everything. I think seeing the characters we have learned to love with different eyes has given us new insights into their feelings, lives and personalities. Seeing Brad and Will talk not at each other but to each other makes it one of the best parts in the whole saga. Over the last chapters Will has became more than a spoiled kid he is rather young gay man trying to find his way in this new brave world. Yes he has a strong will. That why it's called Will-power. He and his parents don't get along all the time. Who here hasn't lived through that. But there is something about him that draws you in. It makes you want him to find his way and have a happy life. Whether it is with John or who ever it doesn't matter. What we don't want is another Billy who dies too young, and leaves us with an empty place in the lives of all who knew him. I for one have faith in Will and of course in Mark, that will happen. I always remember that Mark loves happy endings.

[centexhairysub]

While I have actually grown to like Gathan, I understand rjo's reaction. I think part of the deal is that through the last few stories in this series, we have begun to see what an interesting person Will is going to become and we already have more invested with him than Gathan. While Gathan may already be an interesting addition to this story, for a lot of us; Will is on the verge of being a major figure since we have had more time to get to know him.

[methodwriter85]

It does feel like Gathan's taking a backseat in the story right now. I'm assuming that when Will's major issue- figuring out his relationship with John and Brad- gets solved, we're going to go back to Gathan being the main driver of the story. The other time we had a dual-narration, when the person's issues were mostly solved, we went to the other narrator.

 

Because frankly, I'm more interested in learning about Gathan and the issues that abuse have caused, rather than typical teenage angst bullshit. Will's angst is totally valid and very 9th grade, but I lived through 9th grade. I don't really need to live through that again. I mean, Tim kinda raised a great point- what exactly is Will's issue besides the fact that he doesn't get everything he wants when he wants it? He's a spoiled brat, and while he's still a pretty good guy, the angst of a 13-year old boy realizing that the world doesn't revolve around him just isn't as compelling as a seventeen-year old guy from an poor, abusive environment suddenly finding himself rubbing elbows with the rich elite.

[rjo]

Little did Gathan know that his objection at the meeting would change his life. Was it a change for good or bad? I hope Gathan is strong enough to withstand the temptations of wealth. The image of Jeff Hayes always is looming in the background. Will JP fears come to reality? I hope Gathan can make it through this. For now he has things going his way. And who wouldn't want to go to Paris with someone they love.

[methodwriter85]

Honestly, I think Gathan will be fine. He has a very strong sense of self that Jeff never had, and he doesn't seem interested in milking the family for every penny that they're worth or putting on that he's always been a rich boy to impress people, like Robbie did with Neil back in 1985. Gathan seems like he's grateful for the opportunities, but also that he doesn't expect or even want to suddenly be given a membership at the country club, and ride the coattails of the family. I mean, he plans on taking his 1982 truck and driivng it out to California, for crying out loud. Although we all know Stefan's going to surprise him with a Hummer for his 18th birthday, he doesn't know that. The fact that he seems determined to remain grounded and himself, and not get lost in the crazy Cramptonworld bodes well for him.

 

And yes, I totally meant that double entendre.

 

I like this one for Gathan. Mark had a point that Will's not buch enough for a Hummer, but Gathan's totally butch enough to pull it off.

 

 

God, I remember when Hummers and totally tricked out SUV's were like the ultimate status car symbol with teenagers. Having a TV and a VCR/DVD player in your car seemed like such a novel concept to me back in '03.

Edited May 12, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Matthew k]

Honestly, I think Gathan will be fine. He has a very strong sense of self that Jeff never had, and he doesn't seem interested in milking the family for every penny that they're worth or putting on that he's always been a rich boy to impress people, like Robbie did with Neil back in 1985. Gathan seems like he's grateful for the opportunities, but also that he doesn't expect or even want to suddenly be given a membership at the country club, and ride the coattails of the family. I mean, he plans on taking his 1982 truck and driivng it out to California, for crying out loud. Although we all know Stefan's going to surprise him with a Hummer for his 18th birthday, he doesn't know that. The fact that he seems determined to remain grounded and himself, and not get lost in the crazy Cramptonworld bodes well for him.

 

I know Palo Alto isn't Malibu or Hollywood, but if I had a dime for every nice boy from the Midwest with a good sense of self, determination and common sense who has gotten lost in the ways of Hollywood and West Hollywood I could retire. They come out here to UCLA or USC or come out to make it in modeling or acting and the town chews them up. For some it is just the chance to finally be openly gay and walk down a public street holding a guys hand and then they want to be in West Hollywood all the time. They can't get enough of the clubs. And then they meet their first famous or important person in Hollywood and start geting invited to the parties. It is intoxicating. Mark touched on it a little in previous stories.

 

Some come out of the phase and turn out okay, others it kills one way or another.

[methodwriter85]

But that doesn't apply to Gathan at all. He's a street-smart kid, not some naieve farm boy. He's not going off to USC with the hopes of starting a modeling career. Gathan's going off to Stanford to get his degree in public policy so he can someday run for mayor of Claremont. And since Gathan was never a closeted kid scared to death of anyone finding out that he likes boys, I can't see how alluring the whole WeHo scene would be for him. Gathan comes off as a guy who would avoid phonies at all cost, and he's got a built-in bullshit detector that tells me it would be hard for someone to put one over on him.

 

I think your scenario would apply to Zach much more than it would ever apply to Gathan. Although Zach's an asshole so I'm not sure how many of us would care if he wound up some WeHo druggie loser. I'm thinking Zach's more likely to wind up in the army and dying in Iraq than he would going off to WeHo, though. What better way for a guy living in self-denial to prove to himself that he's straight than going off to fight in the War on Terror? He turns 18 just two months after the Iraq War starts, too.

[sat8997]

Hummer? <snort>

 

I don't think so. My fingers would just have to edit that to 'Pinto' every time. Might as well paint a big old sign on Gathan's back that says 'I have a teeny tiny dick'.

[PrivateTim]

But that doesn't apply to Gathan at all. He's a street-smart kid, not some naieve farm boy. He's not going off to USC with the hopes of starting a modeling career. Gathan's going off to Stanford to get his degree in public policy so he can someday run for mayor of Claremont. And since Gathan was never a closeted kid scared to death of anyone finding out that he likes boys, I can't see how alluring the whole WeHo scene would be for him. Gathan comes off as a guy who would avoid phonies at all cost, and he's got a built-in bullshit detector that tells me it would be hard for someone to put one over on him.

 

I think your scenario would apply to Zach much more than it would ever apply to Gathan. Although Zach's an asshole so I'm not sure how many of us would care if he wound up some WeHo druggie loser. I'm thinking Zach's more likely to wind up in the army and dying in Iraq than he would going off to WeHo, though. What better way for a guy living in self-denial to prove to himself that he's straight than going off to fight in the War on Terror? He turns 18 just two months after the Iraq War starts, too.

 

Mmmm, a lot of the guys we've seen get ruined by California had big plans and dreams to be lawyers or doctors or other professional choices and they lost their way. I wouldn't call Gathan "street smart", he is from Claremont, a city not unlike Youngstown, or maybe not even that big, maybe Upper Arlington, not Cleveland or Columbus. He may not be a farm boy, but neither is he big city boy. It is easy to be seduced by power and wealth.

 

The point we are making is how many "squared away" kids we've seen get messed up by influences in CA. L.A. has movie stars and rock stars, Palo Alto, Mountain View, etc have Internet and technology stars whose power and wealth is every bit as seductive as any Hollywood producer.

[methodwriter85]

So...for guys who are so pro-California you're making it sound like kind of a very bad influence on people. LOL.

 

I mean, I really get what you guys are saying, but the whole "California corrupts the soul of good people" storyline has been done so many times that I would hope Mark would not go for the obvious cliche. And Gathan just doesn't seem like someone who'd get lost there. I buy that happening with Ella, and I buy that happening with Zach. Someone like Gathan though, who doesn't just have a good head on his shoulder but also has the ability to sense bullshit- I can't really see a guy like that getting taken in and run over. I think that's the key here- you either have an inner sense of whether or not people are sincere or they're full of shit, and Gathan is good at recognizing when someone's full of it. Because of that, I just can't see him getting corrupted like that. That storyline would make more sense with Ella, and with Zach.

 

Finally, as for Gathan not being street-smart, you gotta remember that Claremont, for it's size, is still a pretty rough town. He may not live in East Claremont, but he's not that far from it, and he doesn't seem unfamiliar with the rougher element that exists in that town. I spent some time in a small town that had some pretty seedy things going on- Copperas Cove, Texas- and it allowed me to see some things I probably shouldn't have. Gathan's not exactly coming from Mayberry, I don't think. Claremont used to be like that, but not the Claremont of the 1980's and 1990's that he grew up in. If we go by Man In Motion, it was hit pretty hard by the crack epidemic of the 1980's, which likely means there were gangs, and thus it's not quite the bucuolic existence you might be thinking of because it's a small town.

Edited May 12, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

Mmmm, a lot of the guys we've seen get ruined by California had big plans and dreams to be lawyers or doctors or other professional choices and they lost their way. I wouldn't call Gathan "street smart", he is from Claremont, a city not unlike Youngstown, or maybe not even that big, maybe Upper Arlington, not Cleveland or Columbus. He may not be a farm boy, but neither is he big city boy. It is easy to be seduced by power and wealth.

 

The point we are making is how many "squared away" kids we've seen get messed up by influences in CA. L.A. has movie stars and rock stars, Palo Alto, Mountain View, etc have Internet and technology stars whose power and wealth is every bit as seductive as any Hollywood producer.

 

Beneath all that glitter is an old whore? That's more Vegas than LA.

 

I think it's hard to visualize what Tim and Matthew are saying unless you've lived it. I find New York to be the same way as CA. They are the centers of their respective universes, and like a big black hole, they draw people in. Some fall into the big orbital trap and get obliterated, others do not. You go there, and you're playing for the big stakes. You lose, and you really lose.

 

When you're a young guy, and nothing else is going well (read: the way you want it to go), in the end, you have your body. Either you use and abuse it, or someone else does: it's not always pretty.

 

So...for guys who are so pro-California you're making it sound like kind of a very bad influence on people. LOL.

 

I mean, I really get what you guys are saying, but the whole "California corrupts the soul of good people" storyline has been done so many times that I would hope Mark would not go for the obvious cliche. And Gathan just doesn't seem like someone who'd get lost there. I buy that happening with Ella, and I buy that happening with Zach. Someone like Gathan though, who doesn't just have a good head on his shoulder but also has the ability to sense bullshit- I can't really see a guy like that getting taken in and run over. I think that's the key here- you either have an inner sense of whether or not people are sincere or they're full of shit, and Gathan is good at recognizing when someone's full of it. Because of that, I just can't see him getting corrupted like that. That storyline would make more sense with Ella, and with Zach.

 

Finally, as for Gathan not being street-smart, you gotta remember that Claremont, for it's size, is still a pretty rough town. He may not live in East Claremont, but he's not that far from it, and he doesn't seem unfamiliar with the rougher element that exists in that town. I spent some time in a small town that had some pretty seedy things going on- Copperas Cove, Texas- and it allowed me to see some things I probably shouldn't have. Gathan's not exactly coming from Mayberry, I don't think. Claremont used to be like that, but not the Claremont of the 1980's and 1990's that he grew up in. If we go by Man In Motion, it was hit pretty hard by the crack epidemic of the 1980's, which likely means there were gangs, and thus it's not quite the bucuolic existence you might be thinking of because it's a small town.

 

I'm not sure if growing up in white-trash Claremont would equip him for the power brokers in the business world, who are far more ruthless than the gangs of East LA.

[B1ue]

So...for guys who are so pro-California you're making it sound like kind of a very bad influence on people. LOL.

 

It's not a bad influence. Bitches just can't handle their sunshine.

[methodwriter85]

Beneath all that glitter is an old whore? That's more Vegas than LA.

 

I think it's hard to visualize what Tim and Matthew are saying unless you've lived it. I find New York to be the same way as CA. They are the centers of their respective universes, and like a big black hole, they draw people in. Some fall into the big orbital trap and get obliterated, others do not. You go there, and you're playing for the big stakes. You lose, and you really lose.

 

When you're a young guy, and nothing else is going well (read: the way you want it to go), in the end, you have your body. Either you use and abuse it, or someone else does: it's not always pretty.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if growing up in white-trash Claremont would equip him for the power brokers in the business world, who are far more ruthless than the gangs of East LA.

 

True. I can't really visualize it because I've never been that kind of ambitious, or have that much interest in the business world.

 

Wouldn't the fact that his aims are basically that of a small-town mayor kinda keep the big power brokers in business from being interested in him? If we're going at that angle, it would make more sense for Matt, who I can see being ambitious enough to try and swim with the sharks.

[rjo]

Maybe it's waiting for the big one ( earthquake that is) that they can't take.

[centexhairysub]

Well, I really enjoyed this latest chapter of Poor Man's Son. I really am enjoying the dual narration and find it growing on me more and more with each passing chapter. I like the fact that we are getting basically two stories in one.

 

I found myself thinking back to when Stef went back to Paris with others and showed them where he came from and how that ended up having repercussions on future stories and wonder if this one will??? I thought that Stef and Will's conversation was just pitch perfect. It played really true for me. I think it gave Will a lot to think about and maybe gave him a point of view that he hadn't thought about.

 

I really like how Kristen stood by Gathan during the dinner. I have been around so many guys like Josh that thought they were just a little bit better than everyone else around them, and you know what, they rarely were... I thought Gathan handled himself in a very mature and thoughtful manner. Gathan is growing on me more and more each chapter.

 

Keep up the great work Mark.

[Mark Arbour]

I'm glad you liked the chapter. Sometimes we forget how important it is to bond with our older relatives.

[B1ue]

You said it better than I could, Centex. Really great chapter, Mark.

[methodwriter85]

I like that you had Will see kids his age who have much bigger problems than whether or not their mom is letting their boyfriend spend the night, or that their boyfriend had sex with another guy before they got to it. Kids that age who are that sheltered really don't have the perspective to see past their own problems. I mean, there was Drew, but as Brad kinda realized, Drew was a kid who came from an affluent background and that made him much more comfortable to be around. I've had friends like Will, in the sense that they really had a relatively easy time growing up. On one hand, it's great having had that, but on the other hand, they tend to take set-backs and disapointments a lot harder than kids who come from backgrounds like Gathan's. When you get everything going your way, it's kinda hard to roll with the punches when the first significant failures and setbacks start to happen. I know a guy for whom that didn't happen until he was 30, and MAN he took it pretty hard. I had a buddy explain that to me once, when I was pouting about the golden boys who get everything. Dan told me that I needed to keep in mind that inevitably, things stop being golden for those guys. And when it does, I need to be sympathethic to them.

 

I liked Stefan's conversation with Will, especially about how Will is trying so hard to live like he's 18 instead of enjoying the fact that he's 13. I've always kinda been like that- wanting to be some other age than I currently am. Sometimes I would give anything to be eighteen again; other times I wish I was forty years old and settling comfortably into middle age and past all that dumb twentysomething "I don't know where I'll end up working at" angst. Hell, sometimes I even tell people I'm in my 30's. I told my friend Steve that I was born in 1979, and he was all, "Why you trying to be old, man?" LOL.

 

I also enjoyed Stefan's reasoning as to why Will shouldn't move. I agree with it. Will only has once chance to grow up with his brother and his father at their palace on the beach. Why throw it away? Especially on some 8th grade romance?

Edited May 16, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

I found myself thinking back to when Stef went back to Paris with others and showed them where he came from and how that ended up having repercussions on future stories and wonder if this one will??? I thought that Stef and Will's conversation was just pitch perfect. It played really true for me. I think it gave Will a lot to think about and maybe gave him a point of view that he hadn't thought about.

.

 

Yeah I am thinking the kid that was playing Pokemon winds up being a jihadist and comes face to face with Will in Afghanistan.......

[methodwriter85]

My reaction was at first, "That kid would only be 10 or 11 by the time Aghanistan rolls around", but then I remembered that there are child suicide bombers.

 

In any event, I'm not seeing Will as someone who winds up in Aghanistan. By the time Will would be old enough to join, Iraq is the going war at that time, and I don't think Will's going to join. I think Darius and Gathan might. Gathan's friends, especially Chord, SCREAM "Future War on Terror Veterans". I think Will and JJ, however, are going to representative of those college kids who kinda care, but they're more concerned with upgrading their Ipods and how long they can do a keg stand while "My Humps" by the Black Eyed Peas blares in the background at the frat house. My guess would be that if Will winds up involved with anything major from this decade, it'll be when he does his summer internship working with a marine biology lab trying to assess the damage from Hurricane Katrina.

 

JP's going to be so pissed at our generation's near-total apathy about Aghanistan and Iraq. My college, University of Delaware, was especially politically apathetic. Which is kinda funny, since the current United States vice president is an alumni of UD.

Edited May 17, 2011 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

That could be. or maybe that kid will save Will down the line. Maybe the kindness will bear fruit and that kid will bring peace to his homeland. I think of all of Brad's kids Darius may enter the service. Maybe that kid will save him. I believe acts of goodness do come back to you.

 

I would like to reflect the same feelings of the other readers in saying again you have hit the nail on the head with with the characters. Gathan in the restaurant ( for all those of us who have had to deal with people like that ) and Will and Stef in Paris. I was thinking how different Will and Brad are ( Brad was very shy and Stef needed to give him confidence. ) and how alike they now are. Will thank God never had to go through the abuse Brad did as a child. I believe that it caused Brad to became that powerful, overbearing person he became. It is only now Brad, maybe because of Will and Robbie, can pull back and modify his behavior.

 

Just for the record I also believe Will should not move north, Stef is right. Its better Will stays put.

 

Reason for the apathy is no draft. If the general public were drafted things would be different. Only a small percentage of Americans are suffering and dieing. The vast percentage of the American people have nothing invested in the wars.

Edited May 17, 2011 by rjo

[centexhairysub]

Well, chapter 15 was excellent as always but sort of bittersweet as well. I had wondered how long it would take before there was a split within Clara and Wally's household between Gathan and Ella and the others. It actually took longer than I thought. Zach is starting to remind me more and more of Billy, and not in a good way. Zach just seems to like to start s&*t just for the sake of doing so. I really like how both Gathan and later John handled Zach's behaviour.

 

I am really glad that Will and Stef are getting some one on one time together. It is good to see Will connecting with his past in such a positive manner. I don't always agree with Stef's attitudes and behaviour but Will needs someone to be blunt and honest with him. I am glad they seem to be connecting.

 

JP's worry over the cancer seems to be over-ridden by his fear or concern about Kristen Hendrickson. I wonder when that secret will come out as well. That is something that will either have a major impact on all the families or everyone will just go " eh "; but with this story, I am betting on an explosion...

 

Glad that Robbie is going to France as well, maybe he and Brad can purge all the bad feeling from before...

 

Keep up the great work Mark.

[methodwriter85]

I like that you're adding in the negative side of the new world that Gathan's been thrust- mainly that it's causing a rift between him and his parents. I hope that can be fixed at some point, but it's pretty realistic that it happened.

 

I loved Stefan's brutally honest conversation with Will. Part of growing up is being able to handle hearing something you don't want to hear. He's right- John's just shy of 13, WIll's not-quite fourteen. It's ridiculous for Will to think that he's found true love at 14, but...the thing is, when you are that age, that is exactly how you think. I loved Stefan's speech.

 

“But you have loved no one else. You will be separated for long periods of time. You will both be exploring this world, figuring out what you want to do, and who you want to be.”

This was exactly what Will needs to hear, and I'm glad he got told that. I don't think "true love" when it comes to Will and John. I think "adorable puppy love that'll end before high school does." I mean, John isn't even in high school for another year, and I get the feel Will's already planning a wedding in his head or something. Aside from just the age, I'm just not feeling a palpabe, soulmate connection between the two. I think the gold standard for me in that regard would be Matt and Andy in Cross-Currents, who had that palpable connection even when they were Will and John's age. Matt and Andy were two guys you could tell were meant to be together. Here, in Will and John's case, they feel like very good friends who care about each other, but not "True Love" in any sense.

 

It's so painfully adolescent what's going on here- Will's so serious and so committed to John, while John seems to think of themselves more as being best friends who can fool around with each other. I'm just cringing for Will. It's bringing back some pretty cringe-worthy memories. But when you're in love with someone for the first time, or think that you are, you're convinced they're the only person you're ever going to love and you must be together, forever. That's a very teenaged view, and you're capturing that well, Mark.

 

Good chapter.

Edited May 23, 2011 by methodwriter85