Poor Man's Son

[B1ue]

Not saying you're wrong Tim, because I hope you are correct, but for many victims of rape, enjoying the rape on some level is a pretty serious problem. It's sex after all, our bodies are made to enjoy the motions, and that they involuntarily enjoyed the act itself or the later memories of it becomes a source of deep shame.

 

But, I hope this is not the case here. That this guy becomes one of the good guys, and possibly attaches himself to Will, causing John to explode.

[Mark Arbour]

I have to say that I went down this path, using this storyline, for a number of reasons, but I knew it was a touchy issue because of Will's age. Thanks for hanging in there with me on this. I think after the next few chapters, you'll see where I was headed.

[methodwriter85]

Considering that Will is a cool, laidback Golden Boy with a fairytale childhood who will never have an issue with being gay like the other protagonists you've had, it makes sense that you'd come up with other ways to give him issues. I would say having him stress out about high school and getting into college would be something else to do, but that doesn't jibe with what we know about Will- he's one of those guys who's going to be able to get high constantly yet still pull an A average and get into a really competitive university. I'd save that for John Hobart. I think John will be part of that cohort of kids who live on Adderall to get that academic edge.

 

Adderall is way too huge for Mark to ignore by the time we get to Will's college years. It's almost to the 2000's what coke was to the '80's. Even models apparently use Adderall instead of coke now to stay thin, because Adderall doesn't cause bloat like coke. I mean, seriously, people passed around Adderall like candy during finals week. I wanted to go on it my senior year of high school because it seemed like it was working well for like two kids in my class, but my mom wouldn't let me because she'd seen all those panicky Dateline specials from circa 2004 that depicted Adderall as addictive as crystal meth.

Edited June 12, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

Considering that Will is a cool, laidback Golden Boy with a fairytale childhood who will never have an issue with being gay like the other protagonists you've had, it makes sense that you'd come up with other ways to give him issues. I would say having him stress out about high school and getting into college would be something else to do, but that doesn't jibe with what we know about Will- he's one of those guys who's going to be able to get high constantly yet still pull an A average and get into a really competitive university. I'd save that for John Hobart. I think John will be part of that cohort of kids who live on Adderall to get that academic edge.

 

Adderall is way too huge for Mark to ignore by the time we get to Will's college years. It's almost to the 2000's what coke was to the '80's. Even models apparently use Adderall instead of coke now to stay thin, because Adderall doesn't cause bloat like coke. I mean, seriously, people passed around Adderall like candy during finals week. I wanted to go on it my senior year of high school because it seemed like it was working well for like two kids in my class, but my mom wouldn't let me because she'd seen all those panicky Dateline specials from circa 2004 that depicted Adderall as addictive as crystal meth.

 

As a guy who takes the stuff for ADD, you'd think I'd put it more front and center, but there's a reason for that. First of all, I didn't get into Darius' skull enough to see him using it, and I don't see it as something he'd be popping in the summer. Gathan's so hyperfocused already it's unlikely he needs it. As for Will and John, I think they're a bit young to be popping Addys. I'm not seeing it as a middle school thing in 2000, but I could be wrong on that. I think that should hit those guys sometime Junior/Senior year of high school, but that's just my initial read on it. As with all CAP story issues, that's subject to change.

[methodwriter85]

I think for 2000, and in middle school, it would be more likely Ritalin. And you're right that it would be more junior/senior year, not 8th grade/freshman year. I just want it to be 2003 already in CAP land. God, they're moving slow. LOL.

 

The point I'm making though is that Addy gets abused by people who don't actually have ADD. That was pretty widespread. I remember in college, I knew girls who were trading their Adderall for either money or favors. Kids would crush them up and snort it so they could get through finals week. It was also a popular way to keep the weight off. I think people in Adam Phillip's generation used Ritalin to the same effect, in terms of snorting it to get high.

 

In middle school, it was mostly just pot and booze. Although I'm sure kids were raiding their parent's medicine cabinet for stuff. Oxycontin- that's another big one. And Jack being a doctor, I imagine John would have easy access to getting that kind of stuff. But again, you're right that it would be more of a late high school/ early college thing.

 

My college friend Sam was one of those guys who could experiment with all kinds of drugs yet experience no adverse effects from it. I'm thinking Will would be similar. Not too sure about John and JJ, though. JJ screams, "future painkiller addict."

Edited June 12, 2011 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

Seriously? If you needed that to get ahead in an undergraduate class, you were doing it wrong. If you needed it in high school, you were DEFINTELY doing it wrong.

 

I'd heard of people that would take Ritalin recreationally (I'd actually never heard of Adderall), but I didn't know anyone that did it, or at least would admit to it in such a blasé manner. And that was me, taking four years of Academic Decathlon, plus all the sports, plus making the top of my class (admittedly, of twenty, but it still counts), and working twenty hours a week so I'd somehow be able to pay for college. And I had to babysit a lot.

 

I would imagine Jack, as a doctor, would know better than to allow his children access to unprescribed medicines. He'd also be inclined to give them hell if he caught them at this.

[Tommy_B]

Seriously? If you needed that to get ahead in an undergraduate class, you were doing it wrong. If you needed it in high school, you were DEFINTELY doing it wrong.

 

I'd heard of people that would take Ritalin recreationally (I'd actually never heard of Adderall), but I didn't know anyone that did it, or at least would admit to it in such a blasé manner. And that was me, taking four years of Academic Decathlon, plus all the sports, plus making the top of my class (admittedly, of twenty, but it still counts), and working twenty hours a week so I'd somehow be able to pay for college. And I had to babysit a lot.

 

I would imagine Jack, as a doctor, would know better than to allow his children access to unprescribed medicines. He'd also be inclined to give them hell if he caught them at this.

 

Not sure what high school you went to, but I know a lot of guys who took it in high school. They were guys whose families wouldn't accept less than 4.4 and above type grades in an AP heavy schedule because they are supposed to go to Harvard or Stanford and become doctors. I have a close friend at a school with 28 National Merit Scholar Semi-finalists, over 500 students in the school are in AP classes and most take 2 or three, some have 4. They are all looking for any edge.

[B1ue]

Actually, I did take an AP class load, but never mind. There's probably something to your other point, as I was beating the odds enough to graduate high school and get into college at all. Most of my cousins did not do either, and only four of us did both.

[methodwriter85]

Not sure what high school you went to, but I know a lot of guys who took it in high school. They were guys whose families wouldn't accept less than 4.4 and above type grades in an AP heavy schedule because they are supposed to go to Harvard or Stanford and become doctors. I have a close friend at a school with 28 National Merit Scholar Semi-finalists, over 500 students in the school are in AP classes and most take 2 or three, some have 4. They are all looking for any edge.

 

That's true to the kids I knew in high school. My high school was connected with a math and science charter school, and they were notoriously hard on their students. I mean, you would see kids with so much books they had to bring home, their backpacks were looked bigger than they did. The use of coffee, caffeine pills, and Adderall were pretty rampant.

 

I would imagine that this would be the kind of environment that John Hobart would find himself in- with Jack being a doctor and Claire being Claire, I can't imagine anything less than those kind of expectations. They wouldn't be jerks about it, but I would imagine that Claire and Jack would have NEVER put up with the kind of lackadaisical that Darius had about college. Claire and Jack seem like the kind of parents who would have had their kids using Muzzy and fretted over what pre-school they got into. I would think that John is already working on his college resume, hence why he's working with lacrosse. I would imagine he's going to work with SADD for his volunteer credit hours.

 

I kinda find it amazing some times that my high school years('01-'05) overlap with Blue's high school years('98 to '02), but your high school years ('07 to '11) seem to gibe more with what I've seen. In Blue's time, it just seemed like the whole getting into college process was so much easier. Meanwhile, I knew Honor Society students who were getting rejected from their first and second choices.

Edited June 13, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

That's true to the kids I knew in high school. My high school was connected with a math and science charter school, and they were notoriously hard on their students. I mean, you would see kids with so much books they had to bring home, their backpacks were looked bigger than they did. The use of coffee, caffeine pills, and Adderall were pretty rampant.

 

I would imagine that this would be the kind of environment that John Hobart would find himself in- with Jack being a doctor and Claire being Claire, I can't imagine anything less than those kind of expectations. They wouldn't be jerks about it, but I would imagine that Claire and Jack would have NEVER put up with the kind of lackadaisical that Darius had about college. Claire and Jack seem like the kind of parents who would have had their kids using Muzzy and fretted over what pre-school they got into. I would think that John is already working on his college resume, hence why he's working with lacrosse. I would imagine he's going to work with SADD for his volunteer credit hours.

 

I kinda find it amazing some times that my high school years('01-'05) overlap with Blue's high school years('98 to '02), but your high school years ('07 to '11) seem to gibe more with what I've seen. In Blue's time, it just seemed like the whole getting into college process was so much easier. Meanwhile, I knew Honor Society students who were getting rejected from their first and second choices.

 

I can see John Sr. and Claire not letting Darius slide like he did in Malibu, but I've always thought of Claire as also very level headed and I don't see her being stressed over pre-school. I don't see her and John sending their kids to public school though; not with as bad as CA schools have become the last 20 years, I definitely see them sending John Jr to The Menlo School to give their kids the best possible education and a place where he would be challenged and pushed.

 

I see Claire more like the Tiger Mom, Amy Chua, strict, but not obsessive.

[methodwriter85]

Of course, you've got to remember we're talking Gunn High School, which from what I've read still has pretty damn good academics. I'm assuming that's where Ella is going to go for her final year.

 

I think Menlo seems like a pretty good fit for John Hobart, and I like how they seem to have a strong emphasis on the arts as well as the academics and sports. And it's a middle school/high school, so the continuity is nice to have.

 

Anyway, the lacrosse should look good on John's resume when he applies to Johns Hopkins for fall '05. It's the state sport, you know.

Edited June 14, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Of course, you've got to remember we're talking Gunn High School, which from what I've read still has pretty damn good academics. I'm assuming that's where Ella is going to go for her final year.

 

I think Menlo seems like a pretty good fit for John Hobart, and I like how they seem to have a strong emphasis on the arts as well as the academics and sports. And it's a middle school/high school, so the continuity is nice to have.

 

Anyway, the lacrosse should look good on John's resume when he applies to Johns Hopkins for fall '05. It's the state sport, you know.

 

Gunn is good for a public school, but still doesn't have the kind of programs and achievements that a school like The Menlo School does. The world and the circumstances of the Schluter/Crampton families have changed since Brad, Claire & Jack were in school. Kids from families with that kind of wealth just do not go to public schools in CA.

[Mark Arbour]

Gunn is good for a public school, but still doesn't have the kind of programs and achievements that a school like The Menlo School does. The world and the circumstances of the Schluter/Crampton families have changed since Brad, Claire & Jack were in school. Kids from families with that kind of wealth just do not go to public schools in CA.

 

I agree with you.

[methodwriter85]

Does this mean we're going with the Menlo School for John Hobart, Mark? We really ought to have down where he's going to school if he's going to be the main protagonist's boyfriend, and a legacy character at that.

 

Plus, I read that Menlo has a 9th grade lacrosse program. I'm betting that the school lets 8th graders play on freshman varsity teams. That was true for the school that people in my school had to play for. Therefore, John being a lacrosse player in middle school is more likely if he goes to school at Menlo. Lacrosse is more a "new" sport in the West, it seems. Maryland and New York seems to be where lacrosse is the biggest at. It's not that big of a sport in California.

 

John being in 8th grade but trying to play for a high school sports team makes it more reasonable why he skipped the beginning of the trip, because he needed to be extra good to make that team and prove himself despite being one of the "babies" of the team.

Edited June 15, 2011 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

Gunn is good for a public school, but still doesn't have the kind of programs and achievements that a school like The Menlo School does. The world and the circumstances of the Schluter/Crampton families have changed since Brad, Claire & Jack were in school. Kids from families with that kind of wealth just do not go to public schools in CA.

 

John and Ella aren't in those kind of families, though. Brad is rich, as is Stephen. Claire and Ace aren't in the same league though. They aren't middle class, but they're not any better off than, say Isiodore and JP during the Be Rad era. Adjusted for inflation, they may not even be as well off, as neither Cass nor Claire seem to have incomes of their own, and Isiodore was succesful business executive at the same time JP was head of Standford's History department and Sam was teaching in his own right.

[PrivateTim]

Plus, I read that Menlo has a 9th grade lacrosse program. I'm betting that the school lets 8th graders play on freshman varsity teams. That was true for the school that people in my school had to play for. Therefore, John being a lacrosse player in middle school is more likely if he goes to school at Menlo. Lacrosse is more a "new" sport in the West, it seems. Maryland and New York seems to be where lacrosse is the biggest at. It's not that big of a sport in California.

 

John being in 8th grade but trying to play for a high school sports team makes it more reasonable why he skipped the beginning of the trip, because he needed to be extra good to make that team and prove himself despite being one of the "babies" of the team.

 

Naw, CIF (California Interscholastic Federation) has very strict rules about who can play on 9-12 teams, but there are a lot age group lacrosse teams.

 

The Menlo School has a kid at Princeton currently along with a kid from St Ignatius (SF Jesuit school). Most of the prep schools in CA have lacrosse and lots of public schools in the more affluent areas are getting them, but you just have to accept that water polo is the lacrosse of CA.

[B1ue]

Naw, CIF (California Interscholastic Federation) has very strict rules about who can play on 9-12 teams, but there are a lot age group lacrosse teams.

 

What he said.

 

you just have to accept that water polo is the lacrosse of CA.

 

Damn straight.

[methodwriter85]

So, yeah Tim...if John does decide on a place like Johns Hopkins, the fact that lacrosse is a more popular sport there would be an added bonus. If he wants to pursue it on a collegiate level, that WOULD be a legitimate reason to leave California. Kinda like the reverse of why Will would want to stay in California for the surfing.

 

Anyway, interesting point about Jack and Claire's finances, Blue.I never would have thought about them not having as much money. You're right; they wouldn't. They would be more on the terms of "affluent", like Sandy and Kierstin Cohen on the O.C.

 

The O.C. God, I can't wait until the show hits in 2003. It was such a huge show in terms of impact on the youth culture of this country. It was one of the few teen dramas I've ever seen where straight jocks would admit to watching it.

Edited June 15, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

John and Ella aren't in those kind of families, though. Brad is rich, as is Stephen. Claire and Ace aren't in the same league though. They aren't middle class, but they're not any better off than, say Isiodore and JP during the Be Rad era. Adjusted for inflation, they may not even be as well off, as neither Cass nor Claire seem to have incomes of their own, and Isiodore was succesful business executive at the same time JP was head of Standford's History department and Sam was teaching in his own right.

 

I haven't really clarified net worths of the 2nd generation much, but I visualize Jack and Claire as being very very wealthy. Both come from ultra-wealthy families (remember Jack's family made their money in grocery stores. I was thinking of the old Lucky, Stater Brothers, or Alpha Beta chains when I wrote that). I simply don't think that relative wealth is all that significant for them. What would Claire want, but can't afford?

[centexhairysub]

John and Ella aren't in those kind of families, though. Brad is rich, as is Stephen. Claire and Ace aren't in the same league though. They aren't middle class, but they're not any better off than, say Isiodore and JP during the Be Rad era. Adjusted for inflation, they may not even be as well off, as neither Cass nor Claire seem to have incomes of their own, and Isiodore was succesful business executive at the same time JP was head of Standford's History department and Sam was teaching in his own right.

 

I don't agree with this. I went back and checked in " The Land Whore ", " Be Rad ", " Man in Motion ", etc... and I am not sure this is right about Claire and Jack. Claire owns at least 5 percent of Crampton Construction; indication are this is at the very least a Forbes 1000 if not 500 company. Crampton Construction in the early stories seemed to mirror Brown and Root in Texas, before the Haliburton takeover. This would put Crampton Construction, if they followed a similiar growth pattern, in a net worth zone of 2.75 billion dollars. This would put Clair's 5 percent stake at around 135 million in Crampton Construction. Plus Isiodore and JP's construction company did all the building for Stef in the early days in the 70's and 80's; that alone would make it huge even if they didn't have any other clients; which the indication was that they had a lot of other clients on top of Stef. I would assume for tax reasons that Isiodore and JP would have been shifting some of their stock to the kids over the years if for no other reasons than tax issues. It doesn't appear that Isiodore and JP's company did road construction and bridges and other stuff that Crampton Construction did so I am going to assume it isn't as big as Crampton Construction. I took a look at two construction design companies in California that both got their start in the late sixties or early seventies and are still around. Since both of the ones I looked at are private companies like Isiodore and JP's there is not an exact current net worth but both are estimated at more than 650 million dollars, as their net worth. I would estimate that since the 1970's when Isiodore and JP's construction company was founded that they would have shifted at least 10 percent of the stock to each of the kids. This would mean that Ace, Brad, and Claire would all have at least 10 percent in that company. Going with figures that match the other two California firms I looked at, this would give Claire a stake of at least 65 million in that company. If this is even close to accurate then Claire's net worth is pushing 200 million, and that is just her.

And then there is Jack :wub: , his family were the founders and owners of a grocery and speciality shop type grocery store chain way back in the 1970's. I am thinking something similar to Raleys that are in northern California still today. That would put the companies net worth at around 850 million dollars. Since there has never been much discussion about Jack's family you don't know how many of them are around to have split the stock; lets assume quite a few and Jack has say 5 percent. This would put his stock holdings at over 42 million dollars.

 

Now, I do agree that Claire and Jack and Ace and Cass are not at Brad's level and certainly not at Stef's level; they could not be considered even just rich. My definition of rich would be 10 to 25 million, anything more than that moves you up to another category. They would be in the next category. It is clear that Stef is a worth well in excess of a couple of billion dollars and I would guess that Brad is probably close to a billion but Claire at 200 million and Jack at 42 million couldn't be considered exactly poor relations.

 

Now with Ella it is harder to say. We all know that Marie Crampton left Ella a trust but I can't find where anyone ever said how much. I sort of wondered if Brad giving Gathan a 6 million dollar trust wasn't to equalize him with Ella. This would mean that her's was at least close to that amount. Once again, I am not sure this makes Ella rich but certainly doesn't put her near the poverty level.

 

You know that Brad will be Stef's primary beneficiary but how much of Stef's firm does he own now? I know that JP and Isiodore invested with Stef in the early days so how much of the firm do they own? I couldn't find anything that indicated there was more than a couple of shareholders in the company but nothing ever states a clear list or breakdown on ownership.

 

As if Mark has nothing else to do but maybe there should be a discussion in one of the stories to clear this up some, I am sure Mark could come up with a reason that everyone was going to be crass enough to discuss money... It might be interesting to see who owns what exactly...

 

P.S. you can tell I had a lot of spare time today... LOL...

 

OOPS... I started my research before Mark replied and didn't realize that he had replied but still think maybe a good rundown would be in order...

Edited June 15, 2011 by centexhairysub

[Matthew k]

P.S. you can tell I had a lot of spare time today... LOL...

 

So dude..... I am thinking just back on the caffine a bit (I'm just sayin')

 

I always assumed that Jack's family had their money and that as the Crampton's and Schuler's prospered, the families would take care of Claire and the kids. That there would be trust funds, etc., all the things that the uber wealthy do with their money. I had the Hobart's net worth into the $100 million area between the Hobart money and what Claire would have.

 

The uber rich have money because you can't help but make money when you have gobs of it. A $20, 000,000 fund becomes $66,000,000 in 20 years at the relatively modest and safe rate of 6% on monthly compounding, $98,000,000 at a more aggressive 8% and even a modest increase in risk to 9% takes it to $120,000,000 without ever having to add to the principle.

 

But without doing the homework you did today, that was a rough guess. I am guessing the numbers you came up with, upwards of $200,000,000 makes more sense.

 

And to all you youngin's out there do your own math on retirement savings. If youhave $2,000 in saving now and could put away $4,100 a year for 35 years at 9% you'd have over $1,000,000 when you were ready to retire. the most importand lesson you will ever learn financially is the time vale of money.

 

http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm

Edited June 15, 2011 by Matthew k

[Mari]

So... after just reading this last chapter, I can't wait to find out what exactly happened to Brad and what Brad's reaction is to what happened to Will? Does Brad see Will handcuffed naked to the bed and assumes what happened? Do they go to the hospital? I'm going to assume Gustave will be 'eliminated' now.

 

How can Will face so many of his family members, peers included after such a trauma ( even if it doesn't SEEM traumatic, yet ) , right after the events occur? I can't see him being able to face them and their questions. Especially from John, Darius and Gathan.

 

Has it been 5 more days yet?

 

Another great chapter, I love hearing Will's POV and I am really curious to what musical selections this chapter will bring.

 

But really, how are we supposed to wait until next week? My imagination has already spun out dozens of different ideas and my BF has already yelled at me for calling him at 7 am to discuss it.

 

Loved the last few chapters

[centexhairysub]

Well just finished reading the new chapter of Poor Man's Son and all I can say is DAMN...... I have to agree with Mari that Will is going to have some issues to overcome with this experience. I think that he will realize that his body reacted in a positive manner because the physical sensation felt good but that there is a really negative side to all of it. I hope that Will doesn't have too many problems but this is something that may haunt him and effect him for years to come. He may even believe he is okay for a while but at some point, it will all boil up to the surface.

 

I hope that Brad doesn't see Will handcuffed to the bed, and I hope that Will is dressed before Brad sees him. Brad and Robbie are going to both have a lot of guilt over what has happened and they will have to find a way to work through it. I actually think Brad has a better right to have Gustave removed than he did some of those in the last chapter but if people keep ending up dead, someone is going to start asking questions...

 

I love how JP comes in and just takes control and is able to handle everything.

 

I do have one small complaint. The scene between Gathan and Kristen talking about going back to the hotel and " making love " just rang completely false in this situation. Gathan escpecially because of his history with both Will and Brad comes off really bad here. Kristen because of her upbringing doesn't come off any better. When I read that little section, I was really repulsed by both of them...

[PrivateTim]

Well just finished reading the new chapter of Poor Man's Son and all I can say is DAMN...... I have to agree with Mari that Will is going to have some issues to overcome with this experience. I think that he will realize that his body reacted in a positive manner because the physical sensation felt good but that there is a really negative side to all of it. I hope that Will doesn't have too many problems but this is something that may haunt him and effect him for years to come. He may even believe he is okay for a while but at some point, it will all boil up to the surface.

 

I hope that Brad doesn't see Will handcuffed to the bed, and I hope that Will is dressed before Brad sees him. Brad and Robbie are going to both have a lot of guilt over what has happened and they will have to find a way to work through it. I actually think Brad has a better right to have Gustave removed than he did some of those in the last chapter but if people keep ending up dead, someone is going to start asking questions...

 

I love how JP comes in and just takes control and is able to handle everything.

 

I do have one small complaint. The scene between Gathan and Kristen talking about going back to the hotel and " making love " just rang completely false in this situation. Gathan escpecially because of his history with both Will and Brad comes off really bad here. Kristen because of her upbringing doesn't come off any better. When I read that little section, I was really repulsed by both of them...

 

Not Gathan's fault, blame Arbour, I swear he always has sex on his mind!

 

If Brad is okay, and we don't know that yet, I don't see Will being especially scarred by the incident. I can see some guilt issues, but not major, Will seems pretty resilient and I assume it is going to lead to an incredible sex scene between him and John as soon as the occasion arises.

 

I was disappointed that Gustave didn't turn out to be a good guy.

[Hermetically Sealed]

You know, I can't help to wonder what this is going to do to Robbie once he finds out about what happened to Will? Here he was already having issue with Paris before this event, only going because the others were insulting and belittling him for being upset after what had happened there before, then he finds out his son was raped and kidnapped because of what he did. I can't see this going well.

 

As an aside, I can't help but notice that inspite of all the rapes, emotional and physical abuse that Robbie has been through, the family seems to uniformly act as if it is something he should have just shrugged off as unimportant. When he gets freaked out about something like it, they just roll their eyes or act as if he's just a nuisance. However, if someone of blood relation is even slightly harmed they become the doting, caring family ever mindful of upsetting the individual. Seems to really highlight how they view him to be nothing more than an interloper in the family.