Poor Man's Son

[Hermetically Sealed]

Yes, you are way out of line and off target. This is a gay club, there are no children there. Pedophilia is pre-pubescent or very early pubescent children, that is not Will's situation.

Semantics. Most Americans (of whom Stef, Brad and Rob all depend upon for the majority of their income) would see no difference between pedophilia and pederasty. Regardless of whether or not 14 is legal in Italy, Americans would see a (barely) 14 yo putting on a sex show in a gay club as high offensive/scandalous. The repercussions that the family would have to deal with from this act getting media attention would be a huge mess. Squabbling over exact definitions won't change the general population's opinion on the subject. It certainly didn't for the Catholic church when they tried to use that defense.

[centexhairysub]

Semantics. Most Americans (of whom Stef, Brad and Rob all depend upon for the majority of their income) would see no difference between pedophilia and pederasty. Regardless of whether or not 14 is legal in Italy, Americans would see a (barely) 14 yo putting on a sex show in a gay club as high offensive/scandalous. The repercussions that the family would have to deal with from this act getting media attention would be a huge mess. Squabbling over exact definitions won't change the general population's opinion on the subject. It certainly didn't for the Catholic church when they tried to use that defense.

 

I strongly agree with this. American culture has always had a strong puritanical streak running through it. I think that the majority of Americans even in 2011 would be horrified by the idea of a 13/14 year old male or female stripping in a club in front of an audience. Probably because I was sexually active at about the same age, I don't have an issue with Will being a sexual being at that age, but even I have issues with him being sexualized in a public setting.

 

In addition, I was having brunch Sunday with a friend of mine here in Austin that is pretty high up on the tech side of Apple. He says that many phones in use in 2000 could have taken pics of Will stripping but probably not video. He says that while there were a few phones that had the technology in 2000 they were very expensive and the average person would not have had one. In addition, they did not work very well with a lot of movement. Jared says that with Will moving around a pole and being that much in motion along with the darkness and flashing lights from the club, that the resolution would have been horrible and no one could have probably been able to tell who the dancer was. He said it was really the end of 2002 before there was a phone with video technology that was in general use in the public. So if there is video of this stripper act, then it was probably shot on a camcorder; and wouldn't someone have noticed that and stopped it?

[PrivateTim]

Cool new chapter of PMS.

 

This is Shark Week (thanks Discovery Channel for reminding me, I almost had it put out of my mind from last year).

 

Brad surfing clicked this for me. Just 500 feet offshore is a favorite feeding ground for juvenile great whites (that means only 7-9 feet or so). They only eat fish at this age, but the fact that they are there still freaks me the hell out.

 

[methodwriter85]

So Kristin's parents esentially prostituted their daughter. Nice.

 

I think Darius is going to take Will to his first rave. I always wish I had gone to one- they were the coolest things circa 2000-2002.

[PrivateTim]

I strongly agree with this. American culture has always had a strong puritanical streak running through it. I think that the majority of Americans even in 2011 would be horrified by the idea of a 13/14 year old male or female stripping in a club in front of an audience. Probably because I was sexually active at about the same age, I don't have an issue with Will being a sexual being at that age, but even I have issues with him being sexualized in a public setting.

 

In addition, I was having brunch Sunday with a friend of mine here in Austin that is pretty high up on the tech side of Apple. He says that many phones in use in 2000 could have taken pics of Will stripping but probably not video. He says that while there were a few phones that had the technology in 2000 they were very expensive and the average person would not have had one. In addition, they did not work very well with a lot of movement. Jared says that with Will moving around a pole and being that much in motion along with the darkness and flashing lights from the club, that the resolution would have been horrible and no one could have probably been able to tell who the dancer was. He said it was really the end of 2002 before there was a phone with video technology that was in general use in the public. So if there is video of this stripper act, then it was probably shot on a camcorder; and wouldn't someone have noticed that and stopped it?

 

Your friend at Apple is partly wrong, partly right. There were no phones in Italy capable of pictures or video in 2000. Japan did have a phone from Kyocera that debuted in May 1999 and Sharp followed a few months later and they could take pics, but no vid. But the Japanese phones were CDMA and Europe operates on the GSM standard and there were no dual mode phones in 2000. So in theory, a Japanese visitor with a non-working cell phone could have snapped pics of the hot gaijin dancing, but no video.

[methodwriter85]

Mark's editors have done research on camera cell phones; that's why they're not in the story and won't be until CAP world hits 2002; 2003. They hit the market in '02; hit the mainstream market in 2003- I remember the fall of my 11th grade year(Will and JJ's 12th grade year)- everyone suddenly had camera cell phones. I do remember distinctly Everwood being the first time I had seen camera cell phones in action. And of course, a year later, Veronica Mars would have a plot that featured very heavily on cell phone cameras and videos. Nano Ipods, the brightly colored ones that were much smaller than the orginal ones, also hit the mainstream teen at about the same time, if not a year later.

 

The big innovation right now, which Mark showcased, was the flash drive. Coming up very soon are the IPods. MP3's are already common at at this point- I remember my sister used to burn me CD's off of Napster in 2000.

 

Jack will be probably be the first one to have an IPod- Ipods were the toys of the middle-aged techies who liked their music before they got to the teenagers.

Edited August 1, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Mark's editors have done research on camera cell phones; that's why they're not in the story and won't be until CAP world hits 2002; 2003. They hit the market in '02; hit the mainstream market in 2003- I remember the fall of my 11th grade year(Will and JJ's 12th grade year)- everyone suddenly had camera cell phones. I do remember distinctly Everwood being the first time I had seen camera cell phones in action. And of course, a year later, Veronica Mars would have a plot that featured very heavily on cell phone cameras and videos. Nano Ipods, the brightly colored ones that were much smaller than the orginal ones, also hit the mainstream teen at about the same time, if not a year later.

 

The big innovation right now, which Mark showcased, was the flash drive. Coming up very soon are the IPods. MP3's are already common at at this point- I remember my sister used to burn me CD's off of Napster in 2000.

 

Jack will be probably be the first one to have an IPod- Ipods were the toys of the middle-aged techies who liked their music before they got to the teenagers.

 

Cell phones with pics hit the US in 2002, by 2002 in Japan they had almost 50% of the market.

 

Was Everwood that show with the hot, shy boy who played the piano or something like that? A mountain town in CO? Loved that show, wanted to just hug the cute boy

[Mark Arbour]

Cool new chapter of PMS.

 

This is Shark Week (thanks Discovery Channel for reminding me, I almost had it put out of my mind from last year).

 

Brad surfing clicked this for me. Just 500 feet offshore is a favorite feeding ground for juvenile great whites (that means only 7-9 feet or so). They only eat fish at this age, but the fact that they are there still freaks me the hell out.

 

 

No shit. Those damn things are scary.

 

So Kristin's parents esentially prostituted their daughter. Nice.

 

I think Darius is going to take Will to his first rave. I always wish I had gone to one- they were the coolest things circa 2000-2002.

 

I went to a few raves during that era. You're right, they were pretty cool.

 

Your friend at Apple is partly wrong, partly right. There were no phones in Italy capable of pictures or video in 2000. Japan did have a phone from Kyocera that debuted in May 1999 and Sharp followed a few months later and they could take pics, but no vid. But the Japanese phones were CDMA and Europe operates on the GSM standard and there were no dual mode phones in 2000. So in theory, a Japanese visitor with a non-working cell phone could have snapped pics of the hot gaijin dancing, but no video.

 

Interesting concept: an errant Japanese tourist takes photos of Will that show up in some Asian porn rag and wander back to the US. Good thing I'd never write crap like that.

[methodwriter85]

No you wouldn't write crap like that, because otherwise your writing team would bitch at you until it got changed to something that didn't go beyond believeability.

[centexhairysub]

I don't think whatever is going on in Bakersfield is a rave. I sense something serious going on here and think this may prove to be very important. Does Darius know who his real father is? Did Bitsy ever tell anyone?

 

I wonder how everyone else in the extended family is going to take the knowledge of JP's true parentage. I just sort of doubt this all stays quite. This seemed to be a really good bridge chapter that is leading up to some major action.

[KYE]

Wow, Brad is pissed for all of 30 seconds about Will's strip sex show and then gives a punishment that Will states is not really a punishment at all. I didn't expect Brad to take a belt to the kid but expected a little more of a reaction and punishment than that. At the same time I would expect that Brad is still trying to come to grips about what happened in Paris, resulting in Will being sexually molested, and not wanting any reaction or punishment to add the whatever he feels Will maybe dealing with mentally. Maybe Brad and Robbie both feel some guilt about what happened to Will?

 

Brad also let Will mandate to him not to confront Stef about allowing Will to go the club and strip in Rome. That was some what of a let down. I was looking forward to a little drama between Brad and Stef about the episode and situation, LOL.

 

Actually it seems Will is mandating to all the adults what he will do or not do as a 13/14 year old and what they will do concerning his life.

What will happen if JJ starts to demand as much freedom in his own life? JJ is slightly older than Will. So what happens when the adults still treat JJ as a kid but treat Will as an adult?

Edited August 2, 2011 by KYE

[Mark Arbour]

Wow, Brad is pissed for all of 30 seconds about Will's strip sex show and then gives a punishment that Will states is not really a punishment at all. I didn't expect Brad to take a belt to the kid but expected a little more of a reaction and punishment than that. At the same time I would expect that Brad is still trying to come to grips about what happened in Paris, resulting in Will being sexually molested, and not wanting any reaction or punishment to add the whatever he feels Will maybe dealing with mentally. Maybe Brad and Robbie both feel some guilt about what happened to Will?

 

Brad also let Will mandate to him not to confront Stef about allowing Will to go the club and strip in Rome. That was some what of a let down. I was looking forward to a little drama between Brad and Stef about the episode and situation, LOL.

 

Actually it seems Will is mandating to all the adults what he will do or not do as a 13/14 year old and what they will do concerning his life.

What will happen if JJ starts to demand as much freedom in his own life? JJ is slightly older than Will. So what happens when the adults still treat JJ as a kid but treat Will as an adult?

 

I would expect that what happened in Paris would have been on Brad's mind when he was dealing with Will. When he left Paris, his son had just been molested and was dealing with that, and had all but broken up with his boyfriend. He was a pretty morose guy. So he shows up at home, back from Rome, pretty much like his old self. They surf, and then he's joking around with Brad, they're having a good time, and they're communicating openly. Do you really want to bust his balls too hard after all that crap? Or would you be so glad to have your son back, pretty much like he was?

 

As far as Stef and Brad go, those two like drama that involves other people, not each other. Their conflicts have been sparse, very sparse. The only outright fight I remember them having was when they were going out on the boat (in BeRad) after they rescued Jake, and Stef was fawning all over Jake.

 

 

I think it's going to be interesting to see how they handle JJ and Will, since they will have to handle them differently. The thing that will probably save Brad, Jeanine, and Robbie from being completely unfair is that JJ's skating will dictate much of what he can and can't do anyway.

[methodwriter85]

Will is lucky that Brad is his father. If John even remotely pulled a stunt like that, Claire would have grounded him for six months.

 

I think it's going to be interesting to see how they handle JJ and Will, since they will have to handle them differently. The thing that will probably save Brad, Jeanine, and Robbie from being completely unfair is that JJ's skating will dictate much of what he can and can't do anyway.

 

Yeah, I don't see rebellion in JJ's future until his early 20's, when he's out of the house and doing the Olympic circuit in Europe. His life is going to revolve around school, practice, school, practice, and volunteer work, so when exactly would he have time to do much in terms of partying or rebelling anyway?

 

It might be good for JJ to join a church youth group for P.R. purposes.

Edited August 3, 2011 by methodwriter85

[sat8997]

It might be good for JJ to join a church youth group for P.R. purposes.

 

Or he can just get run over by that bus.

[methodwriter85]

There's always that. It'd be funny if Robbie and Brad's reaction was, "Good. JJ was a major bitch, anyway. I'm just glad it wasn't Darius or Will. Let's go off to IHop and celebrate."

 

In all seriousness, I think the other big difference is that I can't see JJ as a guy who gets that busted up over relationships, when he starts dating. First and foremost is his career, then school, then dating if there's time left over. He won't be the way Will is about dating, getting serious and emotionally attached almost instantly the way Will does. There's just no reason to even try, given the amount of traveling he's supposed to do. I think he'd be more apt to approach things in a very discreet "friends with benefits" deal.

Edited August 3, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

Will is lucky that Brad is his father. If John even remotely pulled a stunt like that, Claire would have grounded him for six months.

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't see rebellion in JJ's future until his early 20's, when he's out of the house and doing the Olympic circuit in Europe. His life is going to revolve around school, practice, school, practice, and volunteer work, so when exactly would he have time to do much in terms of partying or rebelling anyway?

 

It might be good for JJ to join a church youth group for P.R. purposes.

 

 

A church youth group? JJ? If I wrote that in, my writing group would lynch me for coming up with something so unbelievable.

 

Or he can just get run over by that bus.

 

Were you thinking Greyhound, or a City bus?

 

There's always that. It'd be funny if Robbie and Brad's reaction was, "Good. JJ was a major bitch, anyway. I'm just glad it wasn't Darius or Will. Let's go off to IHop and celebrate."

 

In all seriousness, I think the other big difference is that I can't see JJ as a guy who gets that busted up over relationships, when he starts dating. First and foremost is his career, then school, then dating if there's time left over. He won't be the way Will is about dating, getting serious and emotionally attached almost instantly the way Will does. There's just no reason to even try, given the amount of traveling he's supposed to do. I think he'd be more apt to approach things in a very discreet "friends with benefits" deal.

 

I'm not sure if I see JJ that way. I think he'll try to be that way, nice and unemotional and discreet, but I'll bet he'd be pretty messed up if the lightning bolts of love zapped him.

[methodwriter85]

A church youth group? JJ? If I wrote that in, my writing group would lynch me for coming up with something so unbelievable.

 

It'd be purely a P.R. move. He definitely wouldn't say anything about being raised by an Atheist. Maybe he'll just wear a cross and pretend, like Daisy said. I like the idea of JJ being pushed by his handlers into talking on Good Morning America about how Christian faith got him through his hard life as an orphan. Cue Brad crushing his coffee mug in anger. LOL

 

 

I'm not sure if I see JJ that way. I think he'll try to be that way, nice and unemotional and discreet, but I'll bet he'd be pretty messed up if the lightning bolts of love zapped him.

 

It'd be interesting. I think JJ's in better control of his emotions than Will is because he mainly keeps to superficial aquaintances and avoids emotional attachments. JJ's also not a hopeless romantic like Will is. JJ knows he's got a limited time to compete, therefore worrying about romantic entanglements would be a waste of time. He'd know that intellectually, but of course it would be funny to see him lose his head over someone at the same time knowing that he's not supposed to have a serious relationship while he's still competing.

[B1ue]

The biggest brat/diva we've encountered in recent history has better emotional control than Will? Are we reading the same series?

 

He may or may not be as romantic as Will, we don't know yet, but we do know the boy has a short fuse and gets easily jealous. I can guess that if he'd walked in on John screwing Zach when John and he had an understanding, the entire world would have known about it, and he'd have been a spitting ball of fury. A small, furious ball, like an angry snowcone with nails and teeth and impeccable taste in handbags.

Edited August 3, 2011 by B1ue

[sat8997]

The biggest brat/diva we've encountered in recent history has better emotional control than Will? Are we reading the same series?

 

He may or may not be as romantic as Will, we don't know yet, but we do know the boy has a short fuse and gets easily jealous. I can guess that if he'd walked in on John screwing Zach when John and he had an understanding with John, the entire world would have known about it, and he'd have been a spitting ball of fury. A small, furious ball, like an angry snowcone with nails and teeth and impeccable taste in handbags.

 

Good Lord! That made me spew my coffee. The 'impeccable taste in handbags' was the kicker.

 

 

*edited because, you know, I can't spell

[B1ue]

I live to serve.

 

But don't go wasting coffee like that!

[methodwriter85]

Alright, you have a point. It just would be nice to have a contrast there, with Will as the lovelorn teenager and JJ as the guy who keeps it nice and casual because he's not the least bit interested in settling down. Especially since as a skater, JJ's not really able to hold any serious relationships down because of all the traveling and the need to look as if he's not having pre-marital sex. LOL. Most figure skaters wait until they're done with competing, it seems like.

 

I'm just hoping that I don't have to write "JJ angsts about [insert love interest's name]" as much as I have to do that for Brad and Will for the music recs. LOL. You are right that JJ's not that controlled emotionally, but I think that would be the reason why JJ would avoid getting seriously attached to anyone, because he knows what he gets like when he cares about someone.

 

I guess I was thinking about this because I was reading about Chris Colfer, the actor from Glee, and he's apparently very driven on his career and not really thinking that much about romance because that can wait while his career needs to happen now. I like that a lot. And actors and skaters are similiar in the sense that there's a short window of opportunity to strike it big, so I think they'd hold similiar viewpoints about settling down and relationships.

Edited August 3, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Matthew k]

Will is lucky that Brad is his father. If John even remotely pulled a stunt like that, Claire would have grounded him for six months.

 

Yeah, I don't see rebellion in JJ's future until his early 20's, when he's out of the house and doing the Olympic circuit in Europe. His life is going to revolve around school, practice, school, practice, and volunteer work, so when exactly would he have time to do much in terms of partying or rebelling anyway?

 

It might be good for JJ to join a church youth group for P.R. purposes.

 

No, I think Claire is pretty well grounded. If John had been through the same things as Will, a kidnapping, sexual assault, etc. I think she would take that into account and just love her kid.

 

 

 

As to JJ joining a church youth group, or any of the kids for that matter, it is not an absurd idea. It doesn't even need to be a PR stunt. A lot of kids are influenced by their peers at that age more than their parents. Colorado Springs is a heavily Christian city for some reason and it is not inconceivable that JJ could join Young Life or some such group.

 

A lot of kids at that age are looking for answers, becoming their own people and are heavily influenced by their peers. A lot of kids get involved in church or Christian groups and are very serious through high school. A lot fall off in college, some don't. Some fall off and never come back, some fall off and return later in life when they are older and want to settle down.

 

I wouldn't paint any of the kids into a corner just because of who their parents are or what their lifestyle is.

 

I would actually find it interesting to see JJ telling Robbie and Brad they were sinning. Not that JJ would need to be a hard core evangelical, although it could lead to interesting scenes, he could just as easily go to an Episcopalian youth group or UCC, that accepts homosexuality.

[methodwriter85]

No, I think Claire is pretty well grounded. If John had been through the same things as Will, a kidnapping, sexual assault, etc. I think she would take that into account and just love her kid.

 

Still, given what we know about Claire, I think John would have definitely gotten a stronger punishment than, "Okay, you can't go to Italy for the rest of the summer." At least ground him for the weekend or something! Claire and Jack probably aren't strict displinarians, but I seriously doubt they're as relaxed as Brad and Robbie were. I don't think Darius would have gotten away with the slacking he did in high school if Claire had been his mother. Claire strikes me as someone who sets more boundaries with her kids than Brad and Robbie do with theirs. Or actually, Claire sets boundaries and Brad and Robbie don't. LOL.

 

A lot of kids at that age are looking for answers, becoming their own people and are heavily influenced by their peers. A lot of kids get involved in church or Christian groups and are very serious through high school. A lot fall off in college, some don't. Some fall off and never come back, some fall off and return later in life when they are older and want to settle down.

 

JJ could go through a religous phase after 9/11. A lot of people did that, including my two sisters. It lasted for two, three years. They were definitely influenced by their peers. And given that the skating world leans more towards the conservative side, I'd have a hard time believing that JJ wouldn't make some friends who were Good Christian Bitches.

 

It'd add to the feeling of JJ not really fitting into his family, which has been a theme throughout his entire life.

Edited August 4, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

Still, given what we know about Claire, I think John would have definitely gotten a stronger punishment than, "Okay, you can't go to Italy for the rest of the summer." At least ground him for the weekend or something! Claire and Jack probably aren't strict displinarians, but I seriously doubt they're as relaxed as Brad and Robbie were. I don't think Darius would have gotten away with the slacking he did in high school if Claire had been his mother. Claire strikes me as someone who sets more boundaries with her kids than Brad and Robbie do with theirs. Or actually, Claire sets boundaries and Brad and Robbie don't. LOL.

 

 

 

Yeah, I can see it now. "Gee John, I'm sorry you were kidnapped, molested, and traumatized, but that doesn't matter. I"m still going to ground you. Because you simply haven't been through enough." Claire or Jack are going to say that? That's not how parenting, at least with kids like Will or John, would work. It would be completely ineffective, stir up nothing but rebellion and resentment in them, and might turn them into serial pole dancers.

 

This was probably the one circumstance (or one of the few, anyway) that would get Will out of his f**k-up with light punishment, IMHO.

[methodwriter85]

Alright. You got me there. I guess I just meant that if you took out that circumstance.

 

It's just...I don't know, Brad and Robbie come off as such permissive parents in nearly everything that it's not really the lack of punishment for the Italian trip that bothers me, just the lack of punishment and disclipline in general that bothers me. How they somehow lucked into three kids who don't take that permissive parenting and become out of control kids is kinda amazing to me. My life experience has been that the kids who are given that kind of freedom tend to have at least one nutty phase. I'm holding out hope that Claire and Jack aren't nearly as lax with their kids as Brad and Robbie have been with theirs. I need to think that, for some reason.

 

I guess it's just...I had parents who didn't really parent. They let us do whatever we wanted to do, and all four of us went off the rails in different ways at different times. So maybe that's why it bothers me- I wish my parents had set boundaries for me as a little kid because a part of me blames that lack of strict disclipline as the reason why I had a really rough transition into my late teens/early 20's.

 

It's weird. When CAP was focusing on Brad and Robbie coming of age, I didn't have such personal reactions to it. I think it's the fact that Will and JJ are my age that it's almost kinda getting me back into remembering myself as a 14-year old in 2000, and I'm reading so much personal stuff into it.

Edited August 4, 2011 by methodwriter85