Kitt Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Compared to Will of course. I just thought of some thing: can you see Brad teaching these kids how to drive? Ummm - no
Sammy Blue Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Seeing him try would make an interesting chapter... maybe around next April 1st?
Mark Arbour Posted November 1, 2013 Author Posted November 1, 2013 Compared to Will of course. I just thought of some thing: can you see Brad teaching these kids how to drive? That would be pretty funny. But it's pretty unrealistic...I can't see Brad with the time (or the patience) to do that. Plus, unless things have changed, you need to have a certified driving course to get a license in CA. 1
George Richard Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) In Illinois, even after taking the course, a teen needs to put in quite a few hours with a licensed driver in the car and turn in the log before taking the road test. My wife always left that duty to me. Edited November 1, 2013 by George Richard 1
Daddydavek Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 I think JJ, Will, John and Marie will all have professional driving instructors and with their drivers supervising their practice. I also expect they will all be great drivers and try to ditch their chauffeurs as soon as possible. 1
methodwriter85 Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) I think JJ, Will, John and Marie will all have professional driving instructors and with their drivers supervising their practice. I also expect they will all be great drivers and try to ditch their chauffeurs as soon as possible. Will especially has to be chomping at the bit to get his license. You KNOW he is. And if Blue is right and Will isn't subjected to restrictions because he's emancipated, then I imagine Will is going to be driving around a lot of his friends come junior year. (Although I'm not sure Blue is right about that- because driving is not a right so wouldn't emancipation be irrelevant?) He'll probably have some kind of tricked-out 2003 model year SUV with built in DVD/TV's in the back for his passengers. I remember how modern and cool that seemed back then. As for JJ being someone that would prefer to be driven...yes and no. I can see why you'd think that, but JJ strikes me as someone who likes alone time, and I could see him as someone who takes his commute as a way to meditate and be by himself. Although I can see Marie, Will, and John bugging JJ for rides come the summer of 2002, when he's allowed to transport other teenaged passengers. Which is why I think he'd get a compact Euro mini-car so he doesn't get pressed into it by Claire or Brad. Edited November 1, 2013 by methodwriter85 1
B1ue Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) I actually copied and pasted slightly incorrectly (I was missing the first line that said "You must be accompanied by a driver over age 25 if:" but you seemed to have it figured out) Here is the current law regarding emancipated minors: Exceptions to Restrictions When reasonable transportation is not available and it is necessary for you to drive, the law grants the following exceptions for minors to drive between 11 PM and 5 AM or to transport an immediate family member unaccompanied and unsupervised. The law requires that you must carry a note explaining why you must drive and when the necessity will end. Medical necessityThe note must be signed by your physician and contain a diagnosis and probable date when recovery will end your need to drive. Schooling or school-authorized activitiesThe note must be signed by your school principal, dean, or his or her designee, and include a reason for the school or school-authorized activity and probable date when the activity will end. Employment necessityThe note must be signed by your employer and verify employment and probable date your employment will end. Immediate need of family memberThe note must be signed by your parent or legal guardian, and include the reason and probable date the necessity will end. Emancipated minorNo documentation is needed for this exemption. However, you must have already declared yourself emancipated by completing a DMV form and by providing Proof of Financial Responsibility (SR 1P) in lieu of your guarantors’ signatures when you applied for your instruction permit. I am not certain if the note regarding emancipated minors was in there during 2001, but it seems to make logical sense, as an emancipated minor would not necessarily have ready access to an of age guardian, although Will in his case does. And I do recall the bits about medical, school, familial and employment necessities, but as the emancipation part would never have applied to me, I confess I didn't pay close attention. It's arguable that this would not apply to Will, as his family employs a driver, but he doesn't have one assigned to his own personal use, so he could probably argue it. As old as he looks, I doubt anyone would question it anyways. That would be pretty funny. But it's pretty unrealistic...I can't see Brad with the time (or the patience) to do that. Plus, unless things have changed, you need to have a certified driving course to get a license in CA. Missed this. You do, and did. However, that's only a 6-8 hour course, and you need to log an additional 40 hours of parent/guardian/hapless bystander supervised driving either before or after the training course. Edited November 2, 2013 by B1ue
Daddydavek Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) B1ue, now you've spilled it about the emancipation exception, but will Will catch it when studying for his permit? Probably. Yes, I expect his next big purchase will be a car sometime in about a year from now in the CAP timeline. But that will probably be in a later book of the saga. I am still looking forward to Wade and Will's meeting with Ethan and seeing how that plays out. Somehow I don't think it will be all smooth sailing. Edited November 2, 2013 by Daddydavek
mmike1969 Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 If Will's lawyer did not already tell him of this exemption, I'd hire a new lawyer. And I know a few "busy" high level executives in Silicon Valley. And they seem to take the time to teach their kids to drive. Nothing more amusing to the private security staff then watching CCTV video of the CEO not lose his shit when his princess daughter grinds gears in his Porsche in the company parking lot or seeing the director comfort his Mustang after his son hit a curb or two. JJ seems comfortable being driven. So I think he will get his license when he lost his virginity...in his 20's... just after leaving the drug and alcohol rehab facility The Family put him in when JJ didn't win any Olympic medals in 2010...and still can't remember if his first was with Buffy the speed skater or with Biff the snowboarder. 2
methodwriter85 Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) I'm voting for JJ to lose his virginity in a threesome with bitchy Sasha Cohen and hunky Jeremy Bloom at the 2006 Olympics. Apparently the Olympic Village is quite the slutty orgy. Mark will have a lot of fun with that. On a completely unrelated note, Mike, you might wanna check out this thread in the lounge about a marine who haplessly met infamous California serial killer Randy Steven Kraft in 1980. Dubbed the Freeway Killer because he dumped the victims near 5 Freeway leading to Camp Pendleton, Kraft targeted Marines during the 1970's and early 1980's. Before your time, of course, but I'm sure you knew older MP's that had heard about this. It's so crazy to me, as a child of the "Never Talk to Strangers" 90's that people often hitchhiked back in the 1970's and '80s. Edited November 3, 2013 by methodwriter85
B1ue Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 This chapter made me distinctly happy I am no longer a teenager. I think I may be happy all day tomorrow from that thought. 3
rjo Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Last night I broke my rule. Always read a new chapter twice before commenting on it. I thought and still believe that JJ is coming out, developing into a nicer more interesting person, and I think John can help him with that. John is just one of those caring people which is good to have around in times like this. I think that JJ could very easily narrate a story down the road. Now the part I may have been wrong about. Zach. Can he change? I guess I believe he can. The question is has he? Will is an important character to me. I worry about him. So when Zach almost forced himself on Will. I reacted. Upon looking at the chapter again, I see Will as not a push over and Zach not as forcefull. It's good that Zach understood what was happening in his life and moved to correct it. I hope that is true and that this Hayes boy can dig himself out and have a better life. It would seem we are not done with the Hayes family just because Robbie dead. Maybe Tim is right again, Zach could tell his story too. Edited November 4, 2013 by rjo 1
Kitt Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I'm voting for JJ to lose his virginity in a threesome with bitchy Sasha Cohen and hunky Jeremy Bloom at the 2006 Olympics. Apparently the Olympic Village is quite the slutty orgy. Mark will have a lot of fun with that. Let's see - JJ is just short of his 16th at the moment, in Oct. 2001. The '06 Olympics is 5 yrs away. Do you really think he is going to wait and not lose his virginity ( assuming his coach didn't already see to that) until he is 21 yrs old? Mark may just be giving us his first hints on JJ's preferences, but to expect a hormonal teenage boy to abstain till he is 21 strikes me as a tad unrealistic! Doesn't matter how many times your parental units preach "Just say no". When the feeling strikes it is GOING to happen. There would be lots fewer cases of std's and teen pregnancies if parents accepted that idea and taught their kids to be safe! 2
PrivateTim Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 That's actually something I'm wondering about- I know that circa 2003 in Delaware, you could get a permit at 15 years and 10 months, and an actual license at 16 and a half, but with restrictions, like you couldn't drive past a certain time and you couldn't have more than 1 or 2 passengers. According to a website I found, the California driving laws were changed in 2006...you could get a permit at 15 and a half and drive as long as you were with someone aged 25. At 16, you could get a restricted license- for the first year, you cannot drive between 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. and you cannot transport people under the age of 20 unless you're with an adult over 25, a guardian, or an instructor. (Man, that's harsh.) There is a huge difference between the law and the reality of how people behave. I don't know anyone who obeys those laws about not driving friends around when you are 16 or any parents who care. The law came about because of a series of high profile accidents where teen drivers killed friends and sometimes themselves. This Newport one being memorable and it tore the City of Newport Beach apart for awhile because the police had stopped the teen driver earlier and didn't arrest everyone, they just told them to go home. Survivors reflect on Irvine Ave accident I would imagine that California and New Jersey would have pretty strict driving laws, because both states are notorious for their heavily trafficked interstate highways, right? I read that in California, it's illegal to drive in the state with an out-of-state driver's license if you've been there longer than 10 days. Delaware's much more relaxed. We have a lot of traffic here, but it's not that insane. It's focused mainly around I-95 and the out-of-staters that come here to take advantage of the no-sales tax at Christiana Mall. That is technically the law in most states probably. If you move to a new state you are supposed to get a new license and change your car registration within 10 days. In CA the reality has been that you almost never change your registration if you come from a low fee registration state like Oregon or NV and in fact some people who buy high end cars get those addresses from Mailboxes Etc that give you a street address (i.e. 120 Main Street, Suite 100, Salem OR instead of PO Box 100) instead of a PO Box to cut the registration fee. I'm voting for JJ to lose his virginity in a threesome with bitchy Sasha Cohen and hunky Jeremy Bloom at the 2006 Olympics. Apparently the Olympic Village is quite the slutty orgy. Mark will have a lot of fun with that. I am voting for JJ to lose his virginity by the end of the story..... hell, you want him to wait 5 more years before he gets some? What kind of a sadistic bastard are you? 4
methodwriter85 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Let's see - JJ is just short of his 16th at the moment, in Oct. 2001. The '06 Olympics is 5 yrs away. Do you really think he is going to wait and not lose his virginity ( assuming his coach didn't already see to that) until he is 21 yrs old? Mark may just be giving us his first hints on JJ's preferences, but to expect a hormonal teenage boy to abstain till he is 21 strikes me as a tad unrealistic! Doesn't matter how many times your parental units preach "Just say no". When the feeling strikes it is GOING to happen. There would be lots fewer cases of std's and teen pregnancies if parents accepted that idea and taught their kids to be safe! Depending on how you define virginity, I waited until I was 21 years old- though it was in a really, really technical sense. When I was 19 and 20, I used to joke to people that I was a "Catholic virgin" because I had done basically every other sexual thing you can do (oral, mutual masturbation, frottage, and getting one's salad tossed), but I could still basically call myself a virgin. Which is funny, because I had by that point at least 7 sexual partners, but I was a virgin. It'd be interesting to have a character that operates in that grey area of abstinence. Although if we're being realistic, I think I can see it happening when JJ is about 17- when he's had a few years to process what happened with his coach, and when his libido is really going at full speed. There is a huge difference between the law and the reality of how people behave. I don't know anyone who obeys those laws about not driving friends around when you are 16 or any parents who care. The law came about because of a series of high profile accidents where teen drivers killed friends and sometimes themselves. This Newport one being memorable and it tore the City of Newport Beach apart for awhile because the police had stopped the teen driver earlier and didn't arrest everyone, they just told them to go home. When I was in high school, there was a rash of teen car crash driving incidents in Delaware, the most memorable one for me being in March of 2005, when two guys from the Charter School of Wilmington were killed in a car crash, with one girl left in a coma. (I think she woke up, but she never recovered cognitively.) I didn't know the guys personally, but they were friends of friends. The school was already reeling from the death of the son of an popular English teacher, who was killed in Iraq, so the school was really hard-hit. 2003-2005 was when I started hearing about the push to up the driving age to 18. I kinda get the regulations, but on the other hand, I feel like restricting kids from having licenses until they're 18 means you're going to get a lot of inexperienced 18 to 20 year old drivers instead, and then we'll start hearing about a rash of college student car accidents. In any event, you are right and sometimes people break the rules, which is why I'm okay with Mark taking "artistic liberty" on this. JJ technically shouldn't drive his friends or family around until about June 2002, but if it's January 2002 in CAP World Mark needs for him to do it for some plot-related reason, gosh darnit, why not? Edited November 4, 2013 by methodwriter85
Carlos Hazday Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Damn! I'm so glad I live in Florida. I went to lunch yesterday with one of my brothers and one of my nieces. She drove us to the restaurant since she just got her learner's permit last month when she turned 15. If she has a clean driving record for the next 12 months she'll be able to get her full license on her 16th birthday. The hoops some kids have to jump through in other states suck!
Mark Arbour Posted November 4, 2013 Author Posted November 4, 2013 It'd be interesting to have a character that operates in that grey area of abstinence. Interesting? I'm not with you on that one. 1
methodwriter85 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Eh. In any event, the '06 idea was based off of Mike's joke that JJ will get his license and lose his virginity sometime in his 20's. LOL. But like I said, if I'm being realistic, 16 or 17 seems more likely given that Brad has noticed that JJ's become stunningly handsome, if short. I felt like the main point of having Zach flirting with JJ was to show that guys his age are starting to notice JJ, probably because he doesn't look 12 anymore- more like a 14-year old. I think part of JJ's middle-child angst was rooted in the fact that Will was basically a male version of Brooke Shields- a kid who woke up in a stunningly gorgeous adult body that got all sorts of attention. Will, already the Golden Boy, got even more attention, while JJ, who stayed a little boy- didn't...unless it was from the creepy coach. Now we're starting to see that people are noticing him in that kind of way, but JJ's still pretty uncomfortable with it because it's not something he's used to. The reason that Zach is at Don Bosco is because they had a stellar football program in 2002 and 2003. That's Zach's big ticket, so they'd have poached him for his football skills, and that's going to drive his college choices. If I'm reading things right, in Zach's senior year- fall 2002, they won the state championship, so that does make for good timing. They were also tanked Top 10 in 2002. In fall 2001, Zach's junior year, things were probably on their way up. It makes total sense that Zach would've gotten recruited if he's as a good as people said he was- Zach would have had his freshman and sophomore years to make a big impression, and they would've had to have scooped him up as a junior. College recruiting happens junior year, and they'd have him for two seasons. Although here's my question- do you have to commit to a school junior year, or can you also do it senior year? Because Zach would probably have more leverage when he's a senior and Don Bosco wins state. My impression has been that you have to commit junior year, or else you have to become a walk-on, but I could be wrong here. I wonder where Mark will send Zach. Penn State could have been interesting, but they weren't a hot program again until later in the decade. If Mark's definitely sending Zach to California, USC seems the most likely. UCLA is more of a basketball school, and Stanfurd wasn't hot until later. Edited November 5, 2013 by methodwriter85
B1ue Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I wonder where Mark will send Zach. Penn State could have been interesting, but they weren't a hot program again until later in the decade. If Mark's definitely sending Zach to California, USC seems the most likely. UCLA is more of a basketball school, and Stanfurd wasn't hot until later. o.O . . . I don't even know what to say in response to that. Although, with those three schools, also add Cal Berkeley. I'm not sure any other school in California has a sports program of note.
GLH Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 It has been about 15 years since I made the effort to teach my niece to drive. An EPIC FAIL, I might add, though not from lack of effort on my part. At the time the law required 25 hours supervised practice before licensing and passenger restrictions once the license was acquired... Now the practice requirement has doubled to 50 hours and there are so many sanctions and stipulations I don't see how anyone manages to get a license. http://cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/teen_driver_safety/gdl.html
methodwriter85 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) I don't even know what to say in response to that. Although, with those three schools, also add Cal Berkeley. I'm not sure any other school in California has a sports program of note. I remember someone told me once that it's a sore spot for certain Californians to say that football takes a backseat to basketball in their state, and that there's a bitterness over Los Angeles not having an NFL team. (I do remember when Los Angeles had the Raiders, but that was almost 20 years ago.) And thanks for the Cal Berkeley note. Although Mark can throw us a left curve and send him to LSU or Michigan or Alabama. I was hoping for a hook up with Alistair, who remains my favorite peripheral character, but I still hope Alistair is in Will's future, maybe college or maybe after, but I still think Alistair would be good for JJ too. I'm not sure if I can see it happening because they're too alike physically. You ever notice how skinny nerdy twink types almost invariably go after the big buff jock types and never other short skinny nerdy twinks? Especially at that age. Personality-wise, I don't think Alistair would be good for JJ. JJ needs someone who will call him on his bullshit constantly. Alistair is too nice to do that. JJ's best bet is with someone who will tell him to his face he's being a diva bitch, and to knock it off. On a side note, we've become used to these epic long stories, but not all of CAP is, there were some really short books. Some 15-20 chapter stories along the way with Zach as a narrator, JJ as a narrator, even John, could advance the storyline. I don't know Mark if you know the exact place you are heading, but some small books could be a nice device and fun If I recall initial plans correctly, 9.11 was going to be a shorter story but then Mark changed his mind. I do like your idea of going back to the shorter book format for future stories, especially because I feel like the groundwork really has been set for this new generation of characters. Mark took a much longer time developing the characters for Will's generation than he did for Brad's. I kinda wonder if that's why Ace feels like such an afterthought, while his Gen Y counterpart, Darius, doesn't feel that way. Now back to Zach...I'm pretty sure he's a classic narcissistic type who lacks empathy for other people but wants to be admired by others. He realizes that he fucked up by angering the family Golden Boy a year and a half ago so this is his attempt to get back into the good graces of the Cali kids. Zach probably figures that he's not going to get any kind of trust fund from Robbie's estate like Gathan did, but what he does have is a promise that his college will be covered. Since Zach is probably eyeing USC right now, he wants to see if he can make peace with them, and eventually charm one of them enough that he'll start to get showered with cars and the like. I'm sure Zach will have success, as this is what he looks like: God, does Liam Hemsworth look the part of the cocky American football jock or what? Chris has the prettier face, but there's this Teddy bear quality to Liam that I'm really into, which is why he reminds me of a Hayes guy. (Well, that, plus the blue eyes, the wide-flat nose, and the short curly dark blond hair.) Anyway, I'm not sure Zach would make a good narrator because of his lack of empathy for other people, but he does make a pretty fun character. Edited November 5, 2013 by methodwriter85 1
Sammy Blue Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) I kinda get the regulations, but on the other hand, I feel like restricting kids from having licenses until they're 18 means you're going to get a lot of inexperienced 18 to 20 year old drivers instead, and then we'll start hearing about a rash of college student car accidents. I'm not sure if it is about the age, or about the general driving mentality over here, and the relatively long and difficult way you have to go in order to get your license, but at least my experience is exactly the other way around. As far as I know, among all my friends and acquaintances around my age (18-25) (and those are many), there is nobody who has ever been in an accident with damage to persons. I know there have been one or two 'accidents' with minor, almost negligible damage to the car and that goes with the fact that every American (exchange student) I had ever visiting said they would not dare driving on those streets because they thought it was/we were crazy. I will never understand how you can give a driver's license to someone who is 15 or 16. Then again, most Americans will probably never understand how it can be perfectly fine when a group of teens that age gets wasted in public and nobody even gives it a second look. I think it is okay... ^^ well to a certain degree, at least. We did it a lot that age, not everyone does, but there are enough who do. I guess that is why I love reading these stories, especially CAP, and also the discussion on the forums. It teaches me a lot about how different things are viewed in different cultures/countries. --- Now back to Zach...I'm pretty sure he's a classic narcissistic type who lacks empathy for other people but wants to be admired by others. He realizes that he fucked up by angering the family Golden Boy a year and a half ago so this is his attempt to get back into the good graces of the Cali kids. Zach probably figures that he's not going to get any kind of trust fund from Robbie's estate like Gathan did, but what he does have is a promise that his college will be covered. Since Zach is probably eyeing USC right now, he wants to see if he can make peace with them, and eventually charm one of them enough that he'll start to get showered with cars and the like. I think that does make sense. Even if he doesn't end up in Cali, I think I understand him better now, if that is what he is really doing. I don't like it though. I fear that he will ultimately take far more than he gives back. Edited November 5, 2013 by Sammy Blue
Kitt Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I'm not sure if I can see it happening because they're too alike physically. You ever notice how skinny nerdy twink types almost invariably go after the big buff jock types and never other short skinny nerdy twinks? Especially at that age. Personality-wise, I don't think Alistair would be good for JJ. JJ needs someone who will call him on his bullshit constantly. Alistair is too nice to do that. JJ's best bet is with someone who will tell him to his face he's being a diva bitch, and to knock it off. "Skinny nerdy twink types" are seldom physically fit enough to put in the hours on the ice a competitive figure skater does daily. We watch the competitions on TV and see the athletes ( and make no mistake, they ARE athletes just like the football jock) make the maneuvers look easy. They are not and these men and women take many hard knocks getting there. Under that slinky one piece stretch suit or skimpy skate skirt are hard muscle. You are right in that JJ needs someone to call him on his BS, but that doesn't necessarily mean getting in his face publically and telling him to quit being an ass. I think were Alistair to be the right guy for JJ, after some initial discussion that comes close to dividing them it would come down to a gentle word or touch in public to remind JJ not to go bitchy. I have seen it work many times. If I recall initial plans correctly, 9.11 was going to be a shorter story but then Mark changed his mind. I do like your idea of going back to the shorter book format for future stories, especially because I feel like the groundwork really has been set for this new generation of characters. Mark took a much longer time developing the characters for Will's generation than he did for Brad's. I kinda wonder if that's why Ace feels like such an afterthought, while his Gen Y counterpart, Darius, doesn't feel that way. It may not have been that Mark is the one changed his mind. Sometimes once you begin the actual writing the Characters themselves have more to say than the story outline thought about and they simply demand the page space. Personally, long or short, I enjoy Marks work, I appreciate the effort the rest of you on his support staff put in, and will read anything he publishes, be it a paragraph or a book the size of Websters Unabridged! 3
PrivateTim Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I'm not sure if I can see it happening because they're too alike physically. You ever notice how skinny nerdy twink types almost invariably go after the big buff jock types and never other short skinny nerdy twinks? Especially at that age. Personality-wise, I don't think Alistair would be good for JJ. JJ needs someone who will call him on his bullshit constantly. Alistair is too nice to do that. JJ's best bet is with someone who will tell him to his face he's being a diva bitch, and to knock it off. Now back to Zach...I'm pretty sure he's a classic narcissistic type who lacks empathy for other people but wants to be admired by others. He realizes that he fucked up by angering the family Golden Boy a year and a half ago so this is his attempt to get back into the good graces of the Cali kids. Zach probably figures that he's not going to get any kind of trust fund from Robbie's estate like Gathan did, but what he does have is a promise that his college will be covered. Since Zach is probably eyeing USC right now, he wants to see if he can make peace with them, and eventually charm one of them enough that he'll start to get showered with cars and the like. I think you way over generalize and put people in too many boxes. I see a lot of skinny twinks who like other skinny twinks, especially at the younger ages because big guys intimidate them since those are the guys who they tend to get bullied by. And if Alistair wants to explore his sexuality, someone very inexperienced like himself (assuming he is still rather inexperienced) is pretty attractive rather then intimidating. As to JJ needing someone to call his on his bullshit, have you forgotten that when we first met him it was little Alistair that called the much bigger Ryan Grafton on his BS bullying. That is one of the reasons I love this kid, he might be slight and prim and proper, but he isn't afraid to stand up and speak his mind. That is a main reason I see him as a great future partner for William, because he'd certainly call BS on him, keep him in line, but also support him when he is in the right. As to Zach and football, even if he is a good player you needed to be great at your position, top 10 or so in the country to get a USC to notice you in the Carroll era. There is a lot more to college football in CA than the Pac 10 (12 now), San Jose State, Fresno State, UC Davis and San Diego State have certainly all placed players in the NFL and there are the small schools like Claremont McKenna, Pomona Pitzer, Azusa Pacific etc that play a tough brand of football and have sent the occasional player to the NFL like Christian Okoye. 3
Daddydavek Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I think the latest chapter which re-introduced Zach as a somewhat reformed bad-boy was intended to provoke a discussion in the forum which has not really happened. I'm referring to the ability of people to change for the better. To make a conscious choice and goal driven decision to improve themselves and change their direction in life. Zach could be on such a mission and while he is young, good looking and egotistical, he has figured out that a self-destructive lifestyle with no regard for others was not a good place to be. Hopefully, even if he remains a back character, we will see him succeed. 2
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