9.11

[methodwriter85]

    This is kinda OT but check out Johnny Weir's ladies short commentation outfit.

 

    Johnny Weir's style is often not my taste, but god, this is outfit is FIERCE. I wonder if we'll have JJ dressed in similiar get-ups. (Probably not, unless JJ's style changes from his Junor Brooks Brothers look.)

 

      It was also nice to see Tara Lipinski again.

[PrivateTim]

Interesting to see Gathan not just parrot what Wally has been saying about Zach for a change.  Perhaps he realizes it is time to look at Zach and see what is there and not what he thinks should be there.

 

I would love to have been a bug on the wall when Frank and Wally got into it about Zach.

 

And no blow up from Will about the gal and needing a condom?  The boy is growing up. Saying there will be no blame in a situation like that and actually dealing with it are two very different things.

 

Now, correct me if I am mistaken, but Wally is actually Zachs father isn't he?  Will be interesting if he decided that Zach has to return to Ohio. I doubt there would be any legal standing for Frank to assume custody, and unless there is a whole lot more happening than Mark has shown us so far I don't see another emancipation on the horizon.

 

Wally is not very strong or very sure of himself, otherwise he would not still be a garbageman on a route 20 years into his job, he would have moved up the ladder. He is easily intimidated by people like Frank and Frank in particular as well. If Wally were a strong character he would have pushed back at everyone, especially Will, than he has already.

 

And we say that because Will didn't set Zach's Durango on fire because of the girl, Will is growing up? If Zach is going to maintain his facade in high school and college he almost has to have a girlfriend or people are going to talk. What star football player doesn't have a girlfriend? Even if a guy doesn't want one, girls throw themselves at the guys and apply huge pressure and start dating you two weeks before you know you are dating. I think time will tell how long Will can survive in this arrangement.

 

    This is kinda OT but check out Johnny Weir's ladies short commentation outfit.

 

    Johnny Weir's style is often not my taste, but god, this is outfit is FIERCE.

 

Kind of off topic? And that outfit is ridiculous. It screams "I am insecure, look at me" like a male version of Gaga.

 

On a completely different topic.....  how healthy is it for Will to fly off to see Zach every weekend? That means he is ignoring his friends from Palo Alto, which isn't good for those relationships, and it has to be pretty obvious to some of them that there is more going on than just Will going to see his cousin.

[B1ue]

Wally is not very strong or very sure of himself, otherwise he would not still be a garbageman on a route 20 years into his job, he would have moved up the ladder.

 

I think you're discounting the difference between union benefits and management benefits. In my industry, the union version of employee benefits are so much better than management equivalents that managers will often quit their management jobs and go back to their craft position for the last year of their employment to carry that version of their health plan into their retirement. That and they only have to work 10-15 days a month for full pay (up to 12 hours a day though, so it sometimes does work out to 40+ per week, especially when you have low seniority).

 

Also, high seniority craft positions often make more than the entry level management positions they'd immediately qualify for. With as many kids as he has, Wally may not have been able to afford taking a management or office position, and as he rose in seniority and became able to pick his shifts and routes, he might not have wanted to.

 

All that aside, I do essentially agree with you about Wally's strength of character. Just wanted to point out this particular character trait might not be because of it.

 

On a completely different topic.....  how healthy is it for Will to fly off to see Zach every weekend? That means he is ignoring his friends from Palo Alto, which isn't good for those relationships, and it has to be pretty obvious to some of them that there is more going on than just Will going to see his cousin.

 

I am curious what Zach's reaction is going to be when he meets Will's friends, and they all visibly put two and two together.

Edited February 20, 2014 by B1ue

[Mark Arbour]

 

 

I am curious what Zach's reaction is going to be when he meets Will's friends, and they all visibly put two and two together.

 

I'll use this as a springboard to talk about Zach and football.  I think that Zach has to make a sincere effort to look straight to the outside world, but I think that within his private circle, he can be relatively gay.  As has been noted, there have been gay football players in the NFL, but they've been heavily closeted.  It seems to me that if people 'suspect' they may be gay, that's not a big deal, as long as they don't 'know' they are.  A fine line, to be sure, but I think that Will and Zach can walk it. 

 

I think the risk of outing Zach is a lot less than the stress on their relationship because of Zach being locked in the closet. 

[KevinD]

Well now that Wade has explained to Nana way he and Matt are no longer together, and having renewed his mostly physical relationship with Tiffany, will we see Riley with a new sibling nine months hence?

 

It looks like Ethan has more or less been acknowledged and accepted into the family even though Emmaline tried to stir the pot. 

 

I just don't know what to think about Elizabeth… We have seen so much evil from her. The burning question is, what does she really want, and as she said, is she willing to pay the price to get it?

 

As for the family accepting Wade as the de facto head of the Danfield clan, an interesting scene. While not quite the scene out of the Godfather, it made me wonder that if Matt came back to kiss Wade's figurative ring, would that be the beginning of the path back to Matt? With the current state of affairs between Wade and Matt I suppose a more appropriate scene analogy would be Michael's kiss of Alfredo, telling him that he broke his heart…

 

While I know that Mark is busy tying up plot lines of this story book, I feel like I still want something more - not quite satisfied. But that is no fault of the author's writing. I guess we will have to see how this book closes out, and then how the next storyline opens to have a better understanding of where some of the characters will end up landing…

 

Thank you Mark and team!

[methodwriter85]

 

On a completely different topic.....  how healthy is it for Will to fly off to see Zach every weekend? That means he is ignoring his friends from Palo Alto, which isn't good for those relationships, and it has to be pretty obvious to some of them that there is more going on than just Will going to see his cousin.

 

    I will say that it's been kind of consistent that Will seems to let friendships go by the wayside whenever he gets all sprung on someone. He's well-known and liked, but none of his Harvard-Westlake friendships seem all that deep, and I think it's because as you've said, this guy pretty much jets off on weekends and on summers, and he's really all about his love interests.

 

   I do think that when you're 15 and in 10th grade, friends expect a level of loyalty and quality time, and I think that mindset is kind of reflected in the fact that Will doesn't really seem to have any seriously close, non-HW friends, mainly just buddies like Austin and the like. It seems his really close peers are also his family in Marie and John, and then JJ. They're the only ones we've seen Will consistently maintain a tight bond with.

 

 

As has been noted, there have been gay football players in the NFL, but they've been heavily closeted.  It seems to me that if people 'suspect' they may be gay, that's not a big deal, as long as they don't 'know' they are.  A fine line, to be sure, but I think that Will and Zach can walk it.

 

     I really do enjoy Adam's gossip dirt about how Troy Aikman's been seen in the Dallas gayborhood quite often. I still think it's kind of sad that he'll likely never come out, but then again, Aikman's private life is his private life.

 

 

“The girls I dumped, hell, they were bad enough to make my stomach puke,” she said, cracking me up.  “By the way, if you want to piss JJ off, tell him you saw Johnny Weir skating, and he was really good.”

              “Johnny Weir?”  I had no idea who that was. 

              “You know how JJ can be a little bitchy once in a while?”

              “Once in a while?” I asked, rolling my eyes.  That kid was super bitchy most of the time.

              “Right,” she said.  “Multiply that by at least ten, and add in a good dose of asshole.  That’s Johnny Weir.”  That sounded pretty horrible to me. 

              “JJ doesn’t like him?”

              Tiffany laughed.  “They’re like hissing kittens when they’re around each other.  It’s hilarious.”  I laughed with her, even as I visualized them in my head.

              “I’ll try to remember the name.” 

              “He’s based on the East Coast, in some hellhole like Delaware, so he competes in regionals  out here.” 

              “Why does that matter?”

              She shrugged.  “You want to move to Boston.  JJ may be open to a move there, so he can kick Johnny’s ass on his home turf.”

      

        God, I loved this exchange. I've been waiting for two or three years for us to get into the fictious Johnny Weir and Jeremy James rivalry, and this is going to be so good. Johnny Weir's rivalry with Evan Lysacek was pretty nasty- he used to call Evan a "slore"- i.e. a slut and a whore. He also tended to roll his eyes and do quotations in regards to Evan's "straightness." Meanwhile, Evan seemed to insinuate that Johnny Weir was lazy, and he made a crack about Johnny's gender on Twitter but then pretended that his Twitter got hacked.

 

       Johnny Weir, according to Daisy, was kind of known as the "East Coast" guy- like there just wasn't really anyone on the East Coast that could touch him during this time period. It'll be interesting to see how JJ stacks up against the guy, as they'd be competing in the East Coast Sectionals to get a spot at Nationals. It'll be interesting to see what nasty one-liners the fictionalized Johnny Weir will make towards JJ, and vice versa. I think it'll make the Trevor Morgan conversation look like a cakewalk. At this time, Johnny Weir is Junior Worlds Champion, so I imagine the ego is probably pretty high at this point.

 

     And eh, Delaware is kind of of a generic American suburban hellhole, but the nice thing about it, when you get sick of our lack of culture, boringly flat landscape(our highest point in the state is a mere 447 feet tall), and relentless ugly surburban sprawl, you've got New York City being 3 hours away, Philly being 1 hour away, and DC/Baltimore being about 60-90 minutes away. Not to mention that you're never more than 90 minutes away from a beach when you live in Delaware. (How far again do you have to drive to get to an ocean beach again, Mark? I think the weirdest thing about living so far inland for grad school was not seeing any seagulls.) Plus, I gotta say it's nice not having to pay sales tax.

Edited February 21, 2014 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

And eh, Delaware is kind of of a generic American suburban hellhole, but the nice thing about it, when you get sick of our lack of culture, boringly flat landscape(our highest point in the state is a mere 447 feet tall), and relentless ugly surburban sprawl, you've got New York City being 3 hours away, Philly being 1 hour away, and DC/Baltimore being about 60-90 minutes away. Not to mention that you're never more than 90 minutes away from a beach when you live in Delaware. (How far again do you have to drive to get to an ocean beach again, Mark? I think the weirdest thing about living so far inland for grad school was not seeing any seagulls.) Plus, I gotta say it's nice not having to pay sales tax.

 

One word on how messed up Delaware is, Joebiden

[Mark Arbour]

Some of the reviewers raised issues with condom use in this scene: 

 

Shit, I don’t have a condom,” Gathan said. 

        I turned and looked at him.  “You OK?” 

        “I am,” he said.  “You trust me?”

        “I do,” I said, and meant it.  Gathan gave me a big smile, then a nice kiss, and with that, I felt like we’d done a lot to restore our friendship.  My unquestioning trust reminded him of how much I respected his honesty. 

 

 

They wisely noted that it was unlikely that a plane owned by Stef or Brad would be devoid of condoms.     I thought I'd mention the issue here, and clarify my thinking on this.  As I noted in my response to the reviews, it was quite likely that there were condoms on the plane, but in this situation, Will and Gathan opted not to use one.  I cited two reasons for this scene:

 

1. It showed these guys solidifying their friendships in a physical way, and it was a very tangible way for Will to show Gathan that he trusted him.

2. It introduced us to Zach's kinky side. 

Edited February 21, 2014 by Mark Arbour

[Daddydavek]

Some of the reviewers raised issues with condom use in this scene: 

 

 

They wisely noted that it was unlikely that a plane owned by Stef or Brad would be devoid of condoms.     I thought I'd mention the issue here, and clarify my thinking on this.  As I noted in my response to the reviews, it was quite likely that there were condoms on the plane, but in this situation, Will and Gathan opted not to use one.  I cited two reasons for this scene:

 

1. It showed these guys solidifying their friendships in a physical way, and it was a very tangible way for Will to show Gathan that he trusted him.

 

2. It introduced us to Zach's kinky side. 

 

OK, I get it.   Stef or Brad still would not be entirely happy with them.  Somehow I envisioned a nice sized candy dish with all sorts of brands, colors and sizes of condoms right next to the bed along with a quart size bottle or three of lubes. 

[methodwriter85]

One word on how messed up Delaware is, Joebiden

 

    Eh, he's an institution. His wife actually was a professor at the community college I attended when the '08 campaign happened; it was pretty exciting.

 

    Delaware's strange in the sense that socially, we're a very "blue" state and pretty liberal, except for the stance on medical marijuana. But we've also got a very relaxed, "laissez-faire" tax system and a very "Corporations are Great!" mindset, which was probably fostered by the noblesse oblige that the Du Pont Corporation practiced throughout the 20th century for our state. That was what was interesting about living in Western P.A. for two years and running into that anti-corporate blue-collar Union mindset, especially when I was taking "History of the Labor Class" while Occupy Wall Street! happened.

 

   

 

Ethan may or may not become a more central character. I can see it happening, but from an author's perspective, he's a little young to bring into an already crowded high school scene. And you know me well enough to know that all of those characters you mention may be resurrected at any given time.

 

  I think the problem with making Ethan central is just the fact that he's not at Menlo and he seems rather happy at the Webb School. And you're right that the high school scene is pretty crowded right now.

 

  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jeff tell Will that Pat had full-blown AIDS? If you're going to resurrect Pat, you might have to do it soon because his shelf life can't be too long.

 

Thanks for the typo pointing out, Tim.

Edited February 23, 2014 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

Did you just spoil a story line method?

 

And it sounds like Tim is STILL bitter about picking the wrong side again

Edited February 22, 2014 by mmike1969

[methodwriter85]

   No, no spoiling. I live in the northern Delaware area. Sharon lives somewhere around the Baltimore area. That's only about an hour drive. If I spoiled a major plot, she'd glean where I live based on my very public Facebook, show up on my doorstep, and then bitchslap me into next Sunday.

Edited February 22, 2014 by methodwriter85

[sat8997]

[GLH]

  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jeff tell Will that Pat had full-blown AIDS? If you're going to resurrect Pat, you might have to do it soon because his shelf life can't be too long.

 

On of my best friends was diagnosed full-blown AIDS around April 1994.  Having been infected by a nasty coke habit, he was in pretty bad shape before he was diagnosed, but he's still kickin' last I heard.  He's had a lot of rough spots, but he's been clean and sober for too many years to remember, still living on his own and terrorizing the South Shore neighborhood in Chicago.  And by terrorizing I mean he's graduated into cantankerous old farthood.

Edited February 22, 2014 by GLH

[PrivateTim]

    Eh, he's (Joebiden) an institution.

 

  I think the problem with making Ethan central is just the fact that he's not at Harvard-Westlake, and he seems rather happy at the Webb School. And you're right that the high school scene is pretty crowded right now.

 

  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jeff tell Will that Pat had full-blown AIDS? If you're going to resurrect Pat, you might have to do it soon because his shelf life can't be too long.

 

More's the pity for Delaware. Only in a podunk state, that would be the 23rd largest COUNTY in area in CA and the #11 county in population, could a callow 29 year old be elected to the U.S. Senate.

 

As to Ethan and Will and even JJ, this is the second time that you've mentioned Harvard Westlake in the last couple of days. Will goes to The Menlo School now and I am not sure JJ is still at H-W (unless you are dropping a major bomb that Will is returning to H-W for the next story).

 

Also, as GLH points out, by 2001 AIDS was being managed pretty well. AIDS related deaths in the U.S. (and the developed world) fell off a cliff starting in 1995 with the first drug cocktails and have stayed low and edged downward even as new infections have edged upwards.

[Kitt]

 

 

As to Ethan and Will and even JJ, this is the second time that you've mentioned Harvard Westlake in the last couple of days. Will goes to The Menlo School now and I am not sure JJ is still at H-W

 

Last I recall, JJ was doing the home schooling/tutor thing to facilitate his traveling to tournaments and make scheduling ice time easier. I believe that is a common practice in the more advanced skating crowd, is it not?   At least it is with the equestrian crowd!

[methodwriter85]

Thanks for the information about AIDS. For some reason I thought that AIDS medication was only meant to stop HIV from turning into AIDS, and once you hit the AIDS point, there wasn't much they could do.

 

 

Last I recall, JJ was doing the home schooling/tutor thing to facilitate his traveling to tournaments and make scheduling ice time easier

 

Right. We have JJ getting tutored by some never-seen tutor. Although really, he might as well just get a GED- he's old enough at nearly 16 to get one now. And that was a typo- I meant Menlo.

 

I kinda always wondered what would happen if JJ flat out told JP that he doesn't plan on going to college. He doesn't really seem interested in doing so. (Although I kinda want JJ to wind up going to Tisch. That place sounds cool.) It does seem like most skaters at the elite level, if they go, take a looooonnnngggg time to finish college. If JJ does go, he'd at the very least have to take off during the 2005-2006 school year to try and make a run at Torino.

[Daddydavek]

Chapter 78  is up and if you have followed the saga forever, it is especially moving.  At least it was for me as it again brought tears to my eyes.  

Edited February 24, 2014 by Daddydavek

[Kitt]

I know I said this in the reviews, but I feel it bears repeating. 

 

Thank you Mark ( and team Arbour) for your patience, perseverance, and mostly for your love of writing. It shows in everything you do.

[Brumguy]

Thank you Mark for all the tears, all the heartache, all the anger, all the laughter and every other emotion that you manage to deliver in each and every one of your stories. 

 

In my head I know they are fictional characters (they are, are they not?) but your writing makes them seem so real.

 

My only complaint is about your timing.  Not only do we have to live without our regular doses of the Escorial crowd; the Bridgemont series is in hiatus as well.   

 

I do hope that  during your well earned break you begin to realise 'less is more' and return to writing very, very soon. 

 

Thanks again Mark for all the hours of wonderful reading you have given me, not to mention the hours of research inspired by your tales..

[John Prz]

CAP saga never stop to amaze. 9.11 is another book in the saga, a special one, a precious gem in the treasure Mark has created.

 

The end of this one last chapter truly moved me, and also showed me who I should be greatful for my family being so unite.

 

This book was downright the best of the entire saga. 

This story was the more touching, emotionally trying and able to convey the true meaning of the word family.

 

A big, fat thanks to you, Mark. 

Edited February 24, 2014 by John Prz

[Westie]

My only comment at the end of this relates to something Arbour said right back in the depths of time.

 

The quote can be found in this thread here

 

 

 

And for all of you who didn't figure it out, Robbie was my gift to you since I took Jeff away in "1968".  

 

WTF?!  What kind of person gives us a gift, and then snatches it back !  Bah

 

But.... in all seriousness, I would say that this is Mark's best story by far, and that if Robbie was taken from us, then it was done in an exceptionally good way.  This book of CAP wasn't just writing.  This was - in every sense of the word - literature.

[Mark Arbour]

My only comment at the end of this relates to something Arbour said right back in the depths of time.

 

The quote can be found in this thread here

 

 

WTF?!  What kind of person gives us a gift, and then snatches it back !  Bah

 

But.... in all seriousness, I would say that this is Mark's best story by far, and that if Robbie was taken from us, then it was done in an exceptionally good way.  This book of CAP wasn't just writing.  This was - in every sense of the word - literature.

 

Damn.  Forgot to erase that forum thread. 

 

Well don't be so picky.  I've given you a few new Hayes boys to enjoy since then too.

[Kitt]

Davewri wrote in a review

 

 

 I was expecting a Jerry Springer Thanksgiving family reunion

 

Mark replied

 

A Jerry Springer Thanksgiving? As the last chapter? LMAO.

 

Are you TRYING to get Mark lynched? 

 

 

 

[methodwriter85]

But.... in all seriousness, I would say that this is Mark's best story by far, and that if Robbie was taken from us, then it was done in an exceptionally good way.  This book of CAP wasn't just writing.  This was - in every sense of the word - literature.

 

   There's a former member of Mark's writing team that would just not. let. up. on Mark for killing off Jeff. It's been pretty funny watching Mark introduce new Hayes guys in retribution for that...lol. Jeff's death has become a lingering part of CAP, and I'm assuming that Robbie's death will as well. Robbie's death sets off long-lasting story consequences for CAP, especially for Brad, Matt, and JJ.

 

    I really do have to say that Mark has done a great job with this story- I like that it's different from the usual "happy ending" stories that he's done in CAP, where everybody is paired off with a new boyfriend and it's all happily-ever-after...until the next story. This felt more like real life.